Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

bananasinpajamas wrote:We have a lot of people on this thread claiming regrowth and hairlines filling in but no pics.

The following are all of Drex's pictures in order. The first set of closeups are all from different angles and Im not sure if its from the same place I cannot tell whats going on at all. I cannot tell what regrowth is happening.  The far away shot IMO is a good baseline for future measurement of regrowth.  Hopefully Drex continues his regrowth and takes a far away pic months from now at the same angle.

DREXX is not lying if that's what you're thinking & those aren't all of his pics....

Why would anybody lie about regrowth.... Nobody is selling anything here. We also have members that have had problems with growing hair while on other methods before that are claiming a stop in hair loss/regrowth. Why don't you just start the exercises (if you haven't done so already) and document your own progress if you don't like it?

whodathunkit wrote:

CaptainGiggles wrote:I've been dermarolling alongside DT right from the start. I use a 1.5mm roller twice a week and apart from the paltry regrowth, I've noticed a ton of scaling and flaking. Excess dead skin all over my crown. Moreover, my scalp is always red thanks to constant rubbing, giving it a diseased appearance. I'll take a picture later today to show you guys. Is this supposed to be normal?

Captain, 1.5mm 2x per week dermarolling seems overly aggressive.  All the massaging and dermarolling is not giving your body a chance to heal, and it sounds like you may be in a constant state of inflammation because of this.  Inflammation is not good for hair follicles.

1.5mm needles are really big.  If you want to dermaroll 2x/week shorten your needles up to 0.5mm.  If you want to continue using 1.5mm needles then space your rolls out at least every couple of weeks or so.

I'm sure someone (maybe Complexx) will chime in and say he knows a gajillion guys that were that aggressive and maybe they even rolled with 1.5mm every day and totally grew their hair back, but I'd have to see pics before I believed that.   Everything I've read about dermarolling (quite a lot, actually), as well as my own personal experience aggressively rolling my face, tells me that you have to let your body heal a bit between sessions, in order to get the real benefits.

My $0.02, for whatever it's worth.

All I have to say is look at the DermaRoller thread on HLT forum ( The one titles "New Dermaroller Study, your thoughts?" Or something like that) and look at all of the progress that went on in that room. Also, look out for a guy named Squeege, who has posted MANY, MANY studies to back all of his claims up.

You guys have to remember that some people are just shy and are embarrassed to put pictures of themselves on the internet... & some others (like myself) don't want to for whatever other reason.  At the end of the day though, documenting your own progress is what always matters the most.

PS: I never make up anything I say about other people and their results. Any of my claims about other people's success can be found on either this forum or any other forum I was referring to in the initial post. Feel free to prove me wrong....

 

can someone confirm these 2 things:

1. is the skin on top of the scalp and near forehead supposed to be very tight? is that normal in all humans? I try to pinch but can barely do it, I have to use 2 hands to do it. the skin on the sides of my head and on my receded hairline I can pinch pretty easily.


2. do you pinch and move back and forth?


Is it possible to deform my scalp with all the pinching and knuckle pressing?

Xenon wrote:Guys, I saw a pic of David Beckham on TV; I immediately noticed, that where he has suffered mild temple recession, he also has the white patches of skin. I managed to find the exact pic showing the white patches I speak of.



Anyway, I have been examining these white patches in closer detail (on my own temples) and I noticed that they bulge out slightly. When I massage them and the surrounding skin I find that it takes lots of effort to make these white patches turn red. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but the fact that they bulge out may suggest that there is some sort of underlying residue which has built up over time. Secondly, the fact that the skin takes longer to turn red may suggest that this underlying residue is reducing bloodflow.

As mentioned in the previous post DT seems to be clearing this residue, as is plenty of exercise.

So, without taking this off topic, I'd like to find out if any of you guys have these bulging white patches where you have lost hair?

I had those areas way back when I started BB brushing. They went away once I started doing the pinching (basically DT) that GPB200 described. Too a while though. Now my whole scalp turns red very easily. The side that was the hardest to turn red was also where I had worse recession.

I also had tight skin where I couldn't even pinch it on the top of my head. That is all loose now. It makes doing the DT WAAAAAY easier too.

Also as I've mentioned... the "supposed regrowth protocol" thread.... I started that a week or so ago and my gains have started taking off like CRAZY. I already had almost all the supps so it wasn't a big deal to start but I would seriously recommend considering it to anyone doing DT. For me the combo is the best thing I have ever done. I don't use the P5P or the spiro myself though.

I took a picture a bit after starting the supps which I thought I posted here.... Anyway in a week or two I post it again with a new one to show what has happened.

keep doing this guys, it works. If it isn't working? I'd suggest the supps. It's very similar to Immortal's regime in some ways. I just did it on a lark and am blown away. the regimen also deals with some angles at calcification too. FWIW I still had the peeling and dander sometimes after doing DT but this past week I haven't had any to speak of.


Good luck and keep at it guys!
 

Complexx wrote:Why would anybody lie about regrowth.... Nobody is selling anything here. We also have members that have had problems with growing hair while on other methods before that are claiming a stop in hair loss/regrowth. Why don't you just start the exercises (if you haven't done so already) and document your own progress if you don't like it?

You need to relax bro, its not about lying, people want regrowth so badly they start imagining things, ive been there before, so I know. You remember the boar brush thread, people were claiming results and what not, still nothing to show. Im not saying dt doesn't work but you need to relax and stop saying this is 100% guaranteed cure.

@duketronix; thanks for letting me know this, there is definitely some relevance between these patches and hairloss. I've also noticed that since I've been using the fingertip massages on these specific areas they are extremely greasy. Perhaps it IS a build up of sebum as Drex mentioned in a previous post. When I first noticed them I thought that they were the result of DHT building up and clogging cell walls and reducing bloodflow, but that could be bro science. It is interesting to note, though, that these patches become greasy when massaged and then they begin to disappear, so it is quite tempting to think that it is sebum having some sort of clogging effect, but I just don't really know for sure.

As for CS' regimen; I saw his photos and he has had very impressive regrowth, I just don't have the money to spend on supps at this point. I'll stick with what I'm doing for now, but if there's no regrowth, then I'll start investing in the supps as per suggested by CS.

ETA: When I starved myself in early 2010 I also remember that these white patches began to disappear and the skin became extremely greasy (they have gradually returned). During this time, though, I suffered a severe shed caused by ketoacidosis, but many weeks later my hair became really thick and healthy. *Perhaps* this was caused by this *possible* underlying substance being cleared from the tissues? IDK, but it is interesting that the scalp becomes greasier as these white patches begin to disappear.

boogv510 wrote:

Complexx wrote:Why would anybody lie about regrowth.... Nobody is selling anything here. We also have members that have had problems with growing hair while on other methods before that are claiming a stop in hair loss/regrowth. Why don't you just start the exercises (if you haven't done so already) and document your own progress if you don't like it?

You need to relax bro, its not about lying, people want regrowth so badly they start imagining things, ive been there before, so I know. You remember the boar brush thread, people were claiming results  and what not, still nothing to show. Im not saying dt doesn't work but you need to relax and stop saying this is 100% guaranteed cure.

Bingo! i.e. Violet ray gun wand!

tcpratt wrote:I want to second whodathunkit, rolling twice a week with a 1.5 mm dermaroller is too often.  I started rolling aggressively with a 1.5 at beginning of Oct. 2013, and it would take a full 7 days before I felt like it was ok to roll again.  At the beginning of Feb 2014I increased to a 2.0 dermaroller and have increased my time between rolls dramatically.  I only roll every 3 or 4 weeks now.  Dermarolling has been the one thing that has given me the hope that I will grow all of my hair back, I've been doing Papilla Power, brushing, great diet, supplements, exercise, meditation, etc., but it wasn't until I added dermarolling that I started to get much better results.

Don't overdo rolling, the scalp needs plenty of time to heal so that it can become healthier and so that new hair can grow.  Once I started waiting longer between rolls, I started getting better results.

Wow - tcpratt! Haven't seen you around these parts in... what's it been, nearly a year? Good to hear you're slowly making progress there :-)

@ Complexx, can you see the little vellus hairs I was talking about in Drex's pics? You can see them pretty clearly in pics 6 and 7 from the top of the pics that bananasinpajamas just posted.

Hey Hairy!

Yep, I'm still hanging in there! I'm glad to see you're still fighting as well!

Take care,
Troy

boogv510 wrote:

Complexx wrote:Why would anybody lie about regrowth.... Nobody is selling anything here. We also have members that have had problems with growing hair while on other methods before that are claiming a stop in hair loss/regrowth. Why don't you just start the exercises (if you haven't done so already) and document your own progress if you don't like it?

You need to relax bro, its not about lying, people want regrowth so badly they start imagining things, ive been there before, so I know. You remember the boar brush thread, people were claiming results  and what not, still nothing to show. Im not saying dt doesn't work but you need to relax and stop saying this is 100% guaranteed cure.

alright first off, boar brushing is what gave me my initial stopping of loss and then major regrowth over about 5 months of doing it, i definitely credit the hair i've regrown to that and just stretching the scalp. i've added DT and now it's speeding up. these manuals in general are the cure i believe, but that's just me. i'm growing my hair back

im not saying he's lying. not at all. i never implied or suggested that he was lying either.

and those are all his pics, in order. i went through this whole thread.

boogv510 wrote:

Complexx wrote:Why would anybody lie about regrowth.... Nobody is selling anything here. We also have members that have had problems with growing hair while on other methods before that are claiming a stop in hair loss/regrowth. Why don't you just start the exercises (if you haven't done so already) and document your own progress if you don't like it?

You need to relax bro, its not about lying, people want regrowth so badly they start imagining things, ive been there before, so I know. You remember the boar brush thread, people were claiming results  and what not, still nothing to show. Im not saying dt doesn't work but you need to relax and stop saying this is 100% guaranteed cure.

Exactly. I've been on these forums for over 10 years. There is always a couple of enthusiastic people claiming they found the cure. I've been convinced a few times in the past by these emotional claims and dropped my existing regimen only to cause me to lose more hair.

When people say things like "I changed my regimen last week and Im seeing insane gains" or things like "ive followed this regimen for months, no changes but my scalp feels GREAT" I get suspicious. 1. You wont see changes in a week. 2. Everyone seems to say their scalp feels great but I dont really care unless I can see new hairs as a result.

Not saying he is lying or even that DT doesnt work, but just saying objectively from the ONLY pics we have from Drex, you can't really tell whats going on. Drex can tell because he knows his head, but for anyone else each closeup pic just shows a lot of vellus and some terminal. I dont know what was there before or not. And each closeup pic is taken from a different spot and different angle so there is no reference.

I've got new regrowth but I don't know how to upload pictures. I use dt brushing twenty minutes a day and the shampoo i posted.

boog wrote:You remember the boar brush thread, people were claiming results and what not, still nothing to show. Im not saying dt doesn't work but you need to relax and stop saying this is 100% guaranteed cure.

One big problem with manual methods is that they require a great deal of discipline to continue for the length of time necessary to potentially reap big results. Most of us don't have that discipline. I don't. Reportedly ot takes a year to make big gains with manuals, and it seems that most of us drop off after 4-6 months. So I'm not entirely sure that it's the methods that are to blame for lack of verifiable progress.

Myself, I was making decent progress with brushing and Maliniak a couple of years ago, and even posted some pictures, but got tired/ragged out/busy, and just stopped the regimen for a while. My hair is still in better shape than it was before I started manuals, but I've lost some ground from when I last took pics.

New hair

It won't let me upload pictures

the skin on the top of my scalp is extremely hard to pinch together, I have to use 2 hands and almost dig my fingernails into my scalp to get even a little pinch. Is this the reason for my hairloss? its so tight there's no bloodflow?

Hairy Potter wrote:@ Complexx, can you see the little vellus hairs I was talking about in Drex's pics? You can see them pretty clearly in pics 6 and 7 from the top of the pics that bananasinpajamas just posted.

Hairy, there are other pics of DREXX on the HLT forum and there was close to nothing on his head before. He also stated that where he was slick bald BROWN spots occurred and sprouted vellus hairs.

Of course, he can still chime in and clarify for us

bananasinpajamas wrote:im not saying he's lying. not at all. i never implied or suggested that he was lying either.

and those are all his pics, in order. i went through this whole thread.

I'll upload some of his other pics from a different forum.

boogv510 wrote:

Complexx wrote:Why would anybody lie about regrowth.... Nobody is selling anything here. We also have members that have had problems with growing hair while on other methods before that are claiming a stop in hair loss/regrowth. Why don't you just start the exercises (if you haven't done so already) and document your own progress if you don't like it?

You need to relax bro, its not about lying, people want regrowth so badly they start imagining things, ive been there before, so I know. You remember the boar brush thread, people were claiming results  and what not, still nothing to show. Im not saying dt doesn't work but you need to relax and stop saying this is 100% guaranteed cure.

Imagining? He has pictures of regrowth bro. How long are we gonna sit here and eat shit by arguing about lack of results? We should all either 1) Take people's word for it (especially since a good amount of them have reported no regrowth from other methods or #2 Document our own results.

DT has worked for nearly every single person I've seen on this forum & most of us gave experienced some "universal symptoms" (safe to call them universal I believe.) I've never seen anything like this besides what was happening in the dermarolling thread before they shut it down.

PS: whodat really took the words right out of my mouth! I salute the guys on here that obtained regrowth TWO YEARS after sticking with manuals... This is not a short process you guys. Whodat's post should be pinned on this damn thread.

well i actually refute your main assertion, "He has pictures of regrowth bro"

Again, from his collection of close up pics on this site, you cannot determine what is regrowth and what is existing. If you have pictures of him from a previous forum being slick bald then that's another story. I'd love for this to be the miracle cure. Id massage my head for an hour a day if it was.

Complexx wrote:

boogv510 wrote:

Complexx wrote:Why would anybody lie about regrowth.... Nobody is selling anything here. We also have members that have had problems with growing hair while on other methods before that are claiming a stop in hair loss/regrowth. Why don't you just start the exercises (if you haven't done so already) and document your own progress if you don't like it?

You need to relax bro, its not about lying, people want regrowth so badly they start imagining things, ive been there before, so I know. You remember the boar brush thread, people were claiming results  and what not, still nothing to show. Im not saying dt doesn't work but you need to relax and stop saying this is 100% guaranteed cure.

Imagining? He has pictures of regrowth bro. How long are we gonna sit here and eat shit by arguing about lack of results? We should all either 1) Take people's word for it (especially since a good amount of them have reported no regrowth from other methods or #2 Document our own results.

DT has worked for nearly every single person I've seen on this forum & most of us gave experienced some "universal symptoms" (safe to call them universal I believe.) I've never seen anything like this besides what was happening in the dermarolling thread before they shut it down.

PS: whodat really took the words right out of my mouth! I salute the guys on here that obtained regrowth TWO YEARS after sticking with manuals... This is not a short process you guys. Whodat's post should be pinned on this damn thread.

Hi All,

I've been meaning to post for a while, but just getting around to it now. I think I have some interesting points for everyone to consider.

I have been doing the detumescence therapy for a few months however I am not very consistent with it because its been working so well. I probably do 10 mins every second or third day on my problem spots, which is nothing like the 2x20 mins a day in study. I think because I'm only starting to thin on my crown and front that I can see more quickly what works than others who have been slick bald in areas for years.

Along with drex1999's recent long post I want to address the method people are using to describe how to do the "massage". First of all, its not a massage, this will confuse things, its a knead or a press. Your fingers should not be sliding over your skin/hair. The way I've been doing the kneading, is to just press down in one spot very hard, to the threshold of pain felt in my fingers and scalp. The study talks about skin in the areas of hairloss being thick. When I first started doing the pressing, over about 30secs of one press, my fingers would sink into my skin. I would make a crater, this was not possible where my skin/hair was not falling like sides, back, etc. The crater would feel like 0.5cm deep, which is substantial. To see what I mean, you can get a pen or pencil and hold it perpendicular to your shin and press it in real hard for at least 30 secs, yes it hurts lot. I used to do this as a kid along the whole length of my skin to create a washboard type ripple, you can basically create a pencil shaped depression in your shin "bone". However, this is more likely just fluid of some sort in the skin being slowly pushed to the surrounding tissue in those 30 secs. On the scalp I can make the same depression however I notice alot of "grease", oil when doing it there, which supports what they're saying in the study. I thought when I started that my skin in these areas was really thin because it felt tough and solid, I thought I was feeling my skull bone and so I avoiding touching it too hard thinking I would damage the skin further. However after pressing for 30 secs and forming a crater, I realised this is not bone. I was very surprised! After making the first crater I would make another beside it to bring the skin to the same level, then I would press on the crater "edges"/"rim" to flatten those out also, I would repeat this until the skin would not go any lower and all the surface shape had changed. I realised that I was able to do what they state in the study, to make my skull "round", since I had a big ridge/protrusion along the top of my scalp. Then the next day the ridge would return and I would press/knead it away. It took about 3 weeks of this until I felt something different, I reached my actual skull! So its clear that I had moved grease or something out of the way and my skin thickness had decreased, but it was a slow process. Now maybe 2 or 3 months later my ridge skin feels thin and I can feel my lumpy suture bone area. Also the craters I make now are much less deep than when I started and only slighty deeper than the craters I make on the sides of my head. However the shape of my skull has not changed greatly. I think I will always have a ridge because thats how the bone is shaped, its just much less prominent. I have a theory that the reason balding is patterned is something to do with the skull sutures since there is some spatial correlation, maybe some calcification process is promoted in these areas (to encourage the sutures to fuse/not reopen) but something goes wrong and the skin becomes fibrous??? Maybe the calcification is what traps the oil because thats where this thick tissue builds up???... So anyway its possible grease oil is being pushed out and some calcification/fibrosis is being broken up with DT.

I should also say that I I think some of my regrowth is from my hair washing alternative. I have not used shampoo for the last year at all and for years prior was quite infrequent used also. I dont like the idea of putting all sorts of chemicals on my scalp that man didnt need until the last 50 years, it doesnt make sense. Surely there is some equilibrium the body establishes with the amount of oil production when one doesnt wash and the scalp is healthy. Anyway, I invented a good sort of cleanse for my scalp to combat the possibility of an infection in the skin as CS has pointed out studies of. I think this is a possibility because of the dandruff, excess oil, general inflammation and itchiness in my balding areas. And if the trapped grease, oil, calcification is stopping bloodflow, the body doesnt have a way to combat it and so the bacteria can flourish and grow beyond what the body would normally permit. So, the "cleanse" is to put a few drops of 10% lugols iodine solution into a full waterpik container and waterpik my scalp on the highest setting "10". For those who aren't familiar with waterpik they are dental water jets that are used to remove plaque and get food, etc. in between your teeth and also wash gingival and periodontal pockets. Its quite painful as it is quite a strong jet but hasn't damaged my hair since using it for over a year. It feels amazing afterwards as the whole area burns. Its like your entire scalp is being heated. I know the burn is due to the iodine since doing it water only produces no burn. Its also great for clearing away the sand like substance that I used to find all over my scalp, which are possibly calcification deposits that the skin has pushed out. (side note: would be a good way to track if one is trying to stop calcification with K2, magnesium, boron, etc. supplements.) Since doing it I've noticed less dandruff and scab like material, much reduced itchyness(bacteria controlled?) and also some regrowth of strong terminal hairs. But I think the most foundational way to solve dandruff problems is to eat more liver and high zinc foods since Vit A and zinc status have been shown to control it, there is a good thread on a ray peat forum about this. I have experimented with ratios of Vit A and zinc and they are influential on skin sebum/oil levels. (I dried my skin and even eyes out too much by going too high on Vit A.)

So at the moment my theory on hair loss involves possibilities of infection in the skin, calcification processes and oil buildup etc.. These are obviously influenced by general health, thyroid health(iodine) esp, diet/nutrition(every should read Western A Price), toxicity load and some genetic components. I think the manual methods people are using are helpful since the body is able to heal, it does this constantly. However it seems most manuals like brushing only deal with the superficial later of skin(i.e. they work by getting blood to flow to the area and the body does the rest), whereas DT is finally a way to stimulate the body to heal deeper layers of skin. Since I saw this to be true from doing DT therapy myself, it occurred to me to google similar deep kneading massage for other problems. Since I have suspected all moles (esp since they can become cancerous..) and facial blemishes to be abnormalities of skin I looked to see if anyone had tried to knead their skin in other areas than the scalp. I was astonished to find the results of a one "Mukunda M" that frequents the yahoo answers site and other forums(google "Mukunda M" to see). This person has no less than 5,700 posts on yahoo answers. He generally replies to queries about how to remove moles, freckles, wrinkles, acne. He states that when he was young, he was rubbing his face to try improve pigmentation, acne, etc. and was surprised that along with it removing pigmentation, freckles etc, it made some moles vanish! Interestingly his method appears very similar to DT. He says to rub firmly for 30 mins a day using any oil except toxic seed oils, he says it require weeks to see improvements... this is basically the same as DT and people reply and say they have been able to improve their skin, while moles and blemishes disappear! I saw that his claims were quite broad then occurred to me that he might have something to say about hairloss, well what do you know, he has a lot of replies on yahoo answers for guys wanting to solve their hairloss. and the procedure is basically the same, get some oil and deep massage it into the scalp for 30 mins a day. He also says to get a millitary brush and do a lot of brushing. He says he has been able to keep his hair while his two other brothers and his father have all lost most of their hair. He also says not to use any products on your skin, including sunscreen as they are all toxic and many see improvements just from stopping use of them.

I have not completely regrown my hair, but what I have seen so far suggests it will all come back, however only time will tell. I think we do not give the body enough credit. It can heal its own tissue better than any product if it is just supplied with the right materials(as in diet, some peptides, or some other fancy marketing hype) and its healing mechanisms are stimulated locally by various methods.

Along with the evidence I've already presented I think Tom Hagertys ideas are supportive, it seems he can create blood flow by filling muscles with blood some of which would reach hair. The manual guys treat the superficial layers. However DT deals with all the skin layers, but I think it must be particularly good at stimulating the healing of deeper tissues.

Also I'll point out this website where "skin stretching" has been shown to encourage skin fibroblasts, etc... "Most studies are pointing to these cells as the possible be-all-end-all in tissue rejuvenation. Fibroblast cells found in the connective tissue produce and secrete fibers (collagens, elastic fibers and other substances), especially during wound healing and tissue repair."
http://www.prlog.org/11842974-flexeffectcom-promotes-scientifically-proven-stretching-exercises-for-the-face-to-combat-aging.html
and the 65 yr old creators thick healthy looking, mole free skin: http://www.flexeffect.com/debpic.htm

Mukunda M example yahoo answers reply about how to regrow hair:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140319003154AAcBxGx

Mukunda M example yahoo answers reply about how to remove moles:
https://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120123191446AAUT0nL