Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

gbp2000 wrote:Very simple Hairy. Buy a usb microscope. Decided on key points on your head (not random ones). Take photos once a week. Once you see progress on that level - that will keep you moving and motivated. Ultimately either Dt works or it doesn't. The circumstantial evidence for manuals is huge. It's not quick. Want to know if Dermarolling helps - only do it on one part of your head for a few weeks. The photos will tell you if its working on a low level and worth doing all over. Worst thing you can do is run round randomly trying things with no attempt at a scientific process.

Yup, I agree with you GBP - I've been wanting to do the microscope camera thing for some time now. Hopefully I will be able to organise that in the next few months, I'd really like to contribute detailed pics for the interests of both DT and derma rolling.

CaptainGiggles wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

Complexx wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

whodathunkit wrote:I haven't been following this thread but am now becoming interested due to all the chatter.

Just chiming in to say that two of the biggest proponents of manual methods on this forum (PapillaPower and Leon Maliniak) both said that regrowth with manual methods would take at least a year and probably two or more.  So don't get discouraged, Hairy.  Or anyone.   I'd personally like to see someone complete a year with some decent pictures.  Hairy, are you photo-tracking your progress?

Edited to add a question:  did any of you guys experience an increase in the oiliness of your scalp when starting this?

Thanks whodathunkit, I appreciate the encouragement :-) Yes, Papilla said it took him 3 years (if I remember correctly) to get to where he was happy with his regrowth, and Margo said that it can take as long to get it back as it took to lose it, which is a shocking thought for me, since I've been losing hair for roughly 20 years lol.

Yes, I'm tracking my progress, but my first pics were done with terrible lighting, and I was using the camera on my Mac, which is not good at all. I think I've got the lighting and pic quality more or less acceptable now, but my base line pics may have to be from a month or two ago.

Even so, I'm not interested in squabbling with anyone as to whether I have a few more hairs or not - to me the pics must say 'look, you can see I was bald in this pic, but in this pic I have hair'. In other words, I'm looking for such dramatic recovery that it can't be disputed.

Hang in there man... You're seeing results and that's all that matters. You may want to give Dermarolling a try since your condition is very advanced. Ive seen some amazing stuff happen with DT & DR'ing individually... Imagine if you combine them!

Thanks a lot bro! If it wasn't for the people on this forum, I probably would've given this up as a bad joke some time ago already.

I have been dermarolling too, once a week with a 1.5 mm roller - I think you're right, they seem to show promise.

I've been dermarolling alongside DT right from the start. I use a 1.5mm roller twice a week and apart from the paltry regrowth, I've noticed a ton of scaling and flaking. Excess dead skin all over my crown. Moreover, my scalp is always red thanks to constant rubbing, giving it a diseased appearance. I'll take a picture later today to show you guys. Is this supposed to be normal?

Not sure about the scaling and flaking man, but it could just be that your scalp is healing by throwing off all the old skin. Yes, take a pic if you can - I reckon the more photos we have on here, the more we have to look back on and reference.

How do you post pics?

My progress on DT so far... I have mentioned in previous posts about white patches of skin which manifested in the exact places where my hairline has receded; well, this white skin seems to be turning to a normal colour, i.e., olive / tanned like the rest of my skin tone. I don't know if this suggests that underlying waste byproducts are being cleared away and bloodflow to cells is increasing, but if hairs start to sprout forth sometime soon, then this may suggest that this is the case.

Guys, I would like to know your opinion about technique called Brainwave vibration which is basically shaking your head with your eyes closed. I am really surprised that this technique wasn't discussed in this forum yet. It was originally meant to treat different things than hair loss and I know people reported that it helped them to cure various diseases, but then I saw interview with some guy on Youtube who said that he has some regrowth and also his hair is changing from grey to black again. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNHCI_KIJ_8 . What makes me little bit suspicious is the propagation of the book in the ond of the interview, but on the other hand I think that this book is only explaining what this technique does inside of your body, which is something meant only for really interested people. Only thing YOU need to know is that you have to close your eyes and shake your head.

There are 2 reasons why I think this might help with hair loss/regrowth. 1 - With shaking your head you are making your neck less stiff which might be important. 2 - I was trying this technique a while ago for about a week, first days I was't feeling anything (perhaps I wasn't doing it correctly) but after a few days it made pins and needles feeling all over my head (especially when i did this technique just after the jogging or exercising), which is a proof that this technique does something at least. Didn't have strong will that time so stopped it, but now I really want to try this again for at least few months.

Opinions?

yeah, ok, that's your opinion. i don't have nothing in common with these guys and i am not trying to get your money for shaking your head, lol. only thing i know is user called BelieveInIt is or was using this technique a he said we should try to look into it.

yes i mentioned it a few times but never got a direct response to it, probably because it seems so odd.

IMO this is superior to every other form of (sitting still) meditation also i want to point out another thing:

meditation is about finding your center and this is what brainwave vibration literally does. by shaking or turning you head you create centrifugal force on it. the only area of the head that experiences little to none centrifugal power is your brain stem which is your CENTER (breathing, heartbeat, hormonal balance) and which you are supposed to focus on. it really stops your thought, makes you feel in a trance instantly and fills your head with blood, whenever i did it for a few minutes my hair stood stronger the next day.
you have to relax your neck muscles, let your mouth hang open and lay your head back a little bit while doing it.

you'll look like an autistic spastic but it's worth it.

CaptainGiggles wrote:I've been dermarolling alongside DT right from the start. I use a 1.5mm roller twice a week and apart from the paltry regrowth, I've noticed a ton of scaling and flaking. Excess dead skin all over my crown. Moreover, my scalp is always red thanks to constant rubbing, giving it a diseased appearance. I'll take a picture later today to show you guys. Is this supposed to be normal?

Captain, 1.5mm 2x per week dermarolling seems overly aggressive.  All the massaging and dermarolling is not giving your body a chance to heal, and it sounds like you may be in a constant state of inflammation because of this.  Inflammation is not good for hair follicles.

1.5mm needles are really big.  If you want to dermaroll 2x/week shorten your needles up to 0.5mm.  If you want to continue using 1.5mm needles then space your rolls out at least every couple of weeks or so.

I'm sure someone (maybe Complexx) will chime in and say he knows a gajillion guys that were that aggressive and maybe they even rolled with 1.5mm every day and totally grew their hair back, but I'd have to see pics before I believed that. Everything I've read about dermarolling (quite a lot, actually), as well as my own personal experience aggressively rolling my face, tells me that you have to let your body heal a bit between sessions, in order to get the real benefits.

My $0.02, for whatever it's worth.

whodathunkit wrote:

CaptainGiggles wrote:I've been dermarolling alongside DT right from the start. I use a 1.5mm roller twice a week and apart from the paltry regrowth, I've noticed a ton of scaling and flaking. Excess dead skin all over my crown. Moreover, my scalp is always red thanks to constant rubbing, giving it a diseased appearance. I'll take a picture later today to show you guys. Is this supposed to be normal?

Captain, 1.5mm 2x per week dermarolling seems overly aggressive.  All the massaging and dermarolling is not giving your body a chance to heal, and it sounds like you may be in a constant state of inflammation because of this.  Inflammation is not good for hair follicles.

1.5mm needles are really big.  If you want to dermaroll 2x/week shorten your needles up to 0.5mm.  If you want to continue using 1.5mm needles then space your rolls out at least every couple of weeks or so.

I'm sure someone (maybe Complexx) will chime in and say he knows a gajillion guys that were that aggressive and maybe they even rolled with 1.5mm every day and totally grew their hair back, but I'd have to see pics before I believed that.   Everything I've read about dermarolling (quite a lot, actually), as well as my own personal experience aggressively rolling my face, tells me that you have to let your body heal a bit between sessions, in order to get the real benefits.

My $0.02, for whatever it's worth.

I understand what you're saying, thing is my head heals pretty fast after rolling. My scalp is back to its normal state within a day or two. Spacing out my rolling sessions so far apart makes me feel like I'm losing precious time, that's the only reason why I do it so often. I don't even press down all the way, Only till my scalp is red and sensitive.

Talking about the gajillion guys with regrowth, I'd not believe that for a second since there isn't an iota of proof out there. To tell you the truth I've been going pretty crazy with the hair loss, rolling consistently every week for 5 months and I'm yet to see anything favourable. For almost 2 months now I'm on DT and 2xweek rolling. I use my knuckles more that my finger tips and I'm experiencing a ton of scaling, big ass bumps on my crown, and mild shedding. I do see some nice long hairs on my hairline though especially on my right side. I hope I'm not imagining things because I really really REALLY want DT to be the solution. It has to be this, or I'm gonna shave and embrace Buddhism.  

I want to second whodathunkit, rolling twice a week with a 1.5 mm dermaroller is too often. I started rolling aggressively with a 1.5 at beginning of Oct. 2013, and it would take a full 7 days before I felt like it was ok to roll again. At the beginning of Feb 2014I increased to a 2.0 dermaroller and have increased my time between rolls dramatically. I only roll every 3 or 4 weeks now. Dermarolling has been the one thing that has given me the hope that I will grow all of my hair back, I've been doing Papilla Power, brushing, great diet, supplements, exercise, meditation, etc., but it wasn't until I added dermarolling that I started to get much better results.

Don't overdo rolling, the scalp needs plenty of time to heal so that it can become healthier and so that new hair can grow. Once I started waiting longer between rolls, I started getting better results.

CaptainGiggles wrote:Spacing out my rolling sessions so far apart makes me feel like I'm losing precious time, that's the only reason why I do it so often. I don't even press down all the way, Only till my scalp is red and sensitive.

So you're saying that how you perceive things (that you're losing ground by not hurrying) is more important than actual reality (i.e., reality is that it's a physiological impossibility for your body to heal that fast)...?

Just trying to be clear on your thought processes.

If that's the case, I hafta observe:  choosing subjective perception over objective reality isn't very Buddhist of you, is it?  

Seriously, you are free to proceed however you see fit.  Just keep in mind that you cannot push the healing process any more than you can stop the rain.

Remember the old parable about the farmer who wanted his crop to grow.  When the shoots started to sprout he went into his fields and tugged on them in order to help them "hurry" to grow.  But instead of helping he wound up pulling up all the shoots and thereby lost his entire crop.

Or the guy who had the goose that laid golden eggs.  When he tried to hurry that process by cutting the goose open to get all the golden eggs in a hurry, he just killed the goose (and therefore never got any more golden eggs).

I'm a lot older than you.  Trust me when I say overdoing something in order to push the process along does not help.  More does not always equal better.  In most cases, it actually hinders what you're trying to do.

Just my $0.02.  But again, you are free to do as you see fit.

tcpratt wrote:I want to second whodathunkit, rolling twice a week with a 1.5 mm dermaroller is too often. I started rolling aggressively with a 1.5 at beginning of Oct. 2013, and it would take a full 7 days before I felt like it was ok to roll again. At the beginning of Feb 2014I increased to a 2.0 dermaroller and have increased my time between rolls dramatically. I only roll every 3 or 4 weeks now. Dermarolling has been the one thing that has given me the hope that I will grow all of my hair back, I've been doing Papilla Power, brushing, great diet, supplements, exercise, meditation, etc., but it wasn't until I added dermarolling that I started to get much better results.

Don't overdo rolling, the scalp needs plenty of time to heal so that it can become healthier and so that new hair can grow. Once I started waiting longer between rolls, I started getting better results.
.

This is a great post. Just what I needed to get me off my own arse and make me use my dermastamps. Thanks, tc!

BTW, do you have any progress pics? If you're not comfy posting them then I'd be happy to PM you my email addie. I'd like to see them.

whodathunkit wrote:

CaptainGiggles wrote:Spacing out my rolling sessions so far apart makes me feel like I'm losing precious time, that's the only reason why I do it so often. I don't even press down all the way, Only till my scalp is red and sensitive.

So you're saying that how you perceive things (that you're losing ground by not hurrying) is more important than actual reality (i.e., reality is that it's a physiological impossibility for your body to heal that fast)...?

Just trying to be clear on your thought processes.

If that's the case, I hafta observe:  choosing subjective perception over objective reality isn't very Buddhist of you, is it?  

Seriously, you are free to proceed however you see fit.  Just keep in mind that you cannot push the healing process any more than you can stop the rain.

Remember the old parable about the farmer who wanted his crop to grow.  When the shoots started to sprout he went into his fields and tugged on them in order to help them "hurry" to grow.  But instead of helping he wound up pulling up all the shoots and thereby lost his entire crop.

Or the guy who had the goose that laid golden eggs.  When he tried to hurry that process by cutting the goose open to get all the golden eggs in a hurry, he just killed the goose (and therefore never got any more golden eggs).

I'm a lot older than you.  Trust me when I say overdoing something in order to push the process along does not help.  More does not always equal better.  In most cases, it actually hinders what you're trying to do.

Just my $0.02.  But again, you are free to do as you see fit.

I like the way you put that across, I think I'll reconsider my rolling habits now. But the thing is, 2 days after rolling my scalp feels normal again, as of nothing ever happened. That's the only reason why I roll so much, Ill limit myself to once every week now.

Hi Whodathunkit,

I haven't been taking any pictures. I do have pictures of myself from several years ago, so I do plan to eventually take some current pictures for comparison. When I do I'll pass them along/post them on the forum.

Definitely use your dermastamps! After what Papilla and Margo have stated about regrowth time, and from my experience over the last 2 1/2 years, we just have to be patient, keep up with our massaging, rolling, etc, etc, and eventually we will be successful. Up until about 4 years ago, my hair had been slowly thinning for probably around 10 years so I am fully prepared to keep at this as long as I need to, even if it takes me 10 years!   

Take care!
Troy

Hi CaptainGiggles,

How aggressively are you rolling? Back when I first started, my first couple of rolls I was not rolling very hard so I was barely bleeding and only a little red for a day or two. I certainly could have been rolling more often at that rate.

With my third week, I started rolling much harder, and bleeding a lot. My scalp is sore for two or three days after. I am not even able to massage or brush for at least 24 hours after rolling. If you're rolling like this, you won't be able to or need to roll so often.

Believe me, I want to speed this process up as quickly as possible, but unfortunately, growing hair back takes time.

Good luck,
Troy

so do you pinch your scalp together in small areas and then shift the skin back and forth? after you do that do you start pressing down hard on your scalp with your fingertips?

The skin on the sides and where my hairline receded are very easy to pinch the skin together but on the front of my hairline and on the top of my scalp its pretty hard to pinch the skin because its tight, is this normal for everyones scalp or should it be easy to pinch the skin together ontop?


I'm willing to do this for 20 minutes a day morning and night,

My temples and crown are quite loose but the top of my scalp there is a protrusion on the skull there, which makes the skin very tight and almost impossible to pinch, but can be crushed together from the sides sort of.

tcpratt wrote:Hi CaptainGiggles,

How aggressively are you rolling?  Back when I first started, my first couple of rolls I was not rolling very hard so I was barely bleeding and only a little red for a day or two.  I certainly could have been rolling more often at that rate.  

With my third week, I started rolling much harder, and bleeding a lot.  My scalp is sore for two or three days after.  I am not even able to massage or brush for at least 24 hours after rolling.  If you're rolling like this, you won't be able to or need to roll so often.

Believe me, I want to speed this process up as quickly as possible, but unfortunately, growing hair back takes time.  

Good luck,
Troy  

Thanks man, good luck to you too! I used to roll untill dots of blood appeared, but now I roll till my scalp is sore and red, on the brink of bleeding.
I would roll heavily on my keel (that one bump right at the top of the head) and over time the skin there turned dry and scaly, very rough. Ever since I combined DT with my rolling almost 2 months ago, I've notice WAY more scaliness around my crown, so much so that I shed flakes of dead skin while massaging (exfoliation?). What is your manual routine and have you experienced any regrowth ?

DeadlyDevice wrote:My temples and crown are quite loose but the top of my scalp there is a protrusion on the skull there, which makes the skin very tight and almost impossible to pinch, but can be crushed together from the sides sort of.

That protrusion is called the sagittal keel. Use your knuckles to kneed the scalp around it, go heavy. Press down on it hard and move the skin around, that should help you.

Guys, I saw a pic of David Beckham on TV; I immediately noticed, that where he has suffered mild temple recession, he also has the white patches of skin. I managed to find the exact pic showing the white patches I speak of.

Look near the receded temple and you'll see [note: his hairline has receded more since]:



Anyway, I have been examining these white patches in closer detail (on my own temples) and I noticed that they bulge out slightly. When I massage them and the surrounding skin I find that it takes lots of effort to make these white patches turn red. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but the fact that they bulge out may suggest that there is some sort of underlying residue which has built up over time. Secondly, the fact that the skin takes longer to turn red may suggest that this underlying residue is reducing bloodflow.

As mentioned in the previous post DT seems to be clearing this residue, as is plenty of exercise.

So, without taking this off topic, I'd like to find out if any of you guys have these bulging white patches where you have lost hair?

CaptainGiggles,

Yes, I have also experienced more flaking, dryness, etc, for a few days post rolling. It does subside though, until my next roll. Having done this since last Oct, I will tell you that the flaking, dryness, etc has gotten less and less since I started. I consider this a good thing and part of the healing process. The last time I rolled though, I had my forehead and temples get really, really dry, red, and peely, it has taken the area a few weeks to get back to normal, and I have been waiting for my forehead to heal up before rolling again. I know that rolling hurts, but try to make sure to draw some good blood, I think that is a key to getting regrowth from this.

In addition to rolling I've been doing Papilla Power, and brushing, occasionally the detumescence massage. My hair is overall thicker on top than before I started and my hairline is slowly growing back. I noticed more hair growing in along my hairline after I started using a 2.00 mm dermaroller and waiting longer between rolls. Not sure if waiting longer is why, or if because I've been rolling for a while and I'm just starting the see better results. I think it's a little of both.

Xenon, while my hair loss is mild, I still agree with you about the bulbous temples. I only have a receded hairline, but where there is no hair, there is a bumpy patch right underneath the skin. It is directly on the edge of the hair. It clearly shows me that whatever is underneath my skin (I'm assuming either sebum, calcification, or a mixture of the two), is causing my hair loss. When I perform DT on those points and press hard, it feels like putty. It moves and contorts to my fingers. I am also assuming that this impedes the blood flow to my scalp and inhibits the hair the grow.

If I somehow manage to get rid of that shit under my skin, I'm pretty sure it will take care of my personal problem.

EDIT: Mind you, I do NOT have this stuff under my skin where I have thick hair.

I always thought papilla power method focused on increasing circulation. He also said it wasn't a massage. From what I've heard it is indeed a massage with a hemp towel. Is this correct. Can anyone describe the method? Either way it be removing the calcium like detumescence only detumescence seems far more rigorous. I did contact papilla but he never responded so if someone could let me know just so I can see if there was anything I could add from that method to detumescence. God bless!

@damnit: Thanks for feedback. IDK precisely what these lumpy white patches are, but considering the fact that they manifest throughout the balding areas makes me strongly think that they have something to do with hairloss. I read that they maybe caused by fungi, but the fact that they bulge out makes me think that they could be caused by some underlying residue... possibly lipid related -- seeing as they are rubbery to the touch. If it was calcification, then I'm sure that they'd be harder to the touch with no "bounce", if you like.

Again, I don't want to behave like a bull in a fine china shop because I just really don't know what they are, but I'm noticing an increase in acne precisely where these white patches are beginning to break up. Perhaps it could be a build up of sebum which has penetrated deeper tissues IDK, but if new hair starts to grow as these white patches decline, then there is definitely a correlation.

I'll continue to observe.

We have a lot of people on this thread claiming regrowth and hairlines filling in but no pics.

The following are all of Drex's pictures in order. The first set of closeups are all from different angles and Im not sure if its from the same place I cannot tell whats going on at all. I cannot tell what regrowth is happening. The far away shot IMO is a good baseline for future measurement of regrowth. Hopefully Drex continues his regrowth and takes a far away pic months from now at the same angle.