Re: I dont think DHT is the cause of hairloss

a<r Sat May 26, 2012 8:47 am

Alright, I'm gion' real scientific and shit on this one, I was reading through studies to help out 2020 understand science's, when I remembered this. Right off of our good friend Tylenol's website, this should be right up your alley, it's a pharmaceutical after all.

Tylenol works by blocking the production of prostaglandins in the body. Prostaglandins are molecules that the body releases during inflammatory or infectious events. When the body detects an infection or an inflammatory trigger, it releases substances called interleukins, which help draw cells involved in the immune defense of the body to the site of injury or infection. These cells then further release other compounds, called pyrogenic cytokines, which in turn go to the different tissues and stimulate the production of prostaglandins. The prostaglandins then travel to the hypothalamus in the brain. In response to the elevation of the levels of prostaglandins, the hypothalamus elevates the body's temperature set point, producing fever. The fever in turn helps the body fight off infections or helps signal that an inflammatory process is underway.

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 8:52 am

not a troll and you still didn't answer my question.

Someone is making money off of this site. The real trolls are the admins who promote this crap in order to make money from ignorant masses.

gdfghh Sat May 26, 2012 8:54 am

Yeah man, I always knew CS was the CEO of iherb

Smurfy Sat May 26, 2012 8:58 am

Yeah seriously. I feel the best I've ever felt, and haven't had a single scalp itch in two years. This must be real crap. I mean really, who wants to feel GOOD, ugh so overrated.

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:09 am

Satan wrote:Yeah man, I always knew CS was the CEO of iherb

^ that's the kind of ignorance I'm talking about...

you do realize that the links to all those products on the main page have this attached: "?at=hil335"

which means that everytime IHerb.com makes a sale, a portion of that money goes to whoever hil335 is which I'm sure is one of the admins of this forum...

Tell me I'm wrong...

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:10 am

Smurfy wrote:Theory: Toxic overload --> clogged pathways --> diminished blood flow to excretion routes --> Hairfall
Focus: Reversal of cooked oil damage

......

a<r Sat May 26, 2012 9:12 am

2020, I understand you have a hard time with this whole science thing, so I'll be blatant. What I said did conclude what you asked, you asked me if PGD2 levels were an indicator of something, whether subtle or not, was going wrong with your health. Then, I responded by showing you that the Prostoglandin family is activated by inflammation, I don't know if you know this or not, but inflammation is a bad thing, it's a sign that your body is attacking something most often some form of infection. Which again, goes back to the study I posted from a while back about leukocytes in the hair follicles of AGA patients, I even previously posted evidence that inflammation (the interleukins) can upregulate Androgen Receptors.

I'll let Mr. Nye handle the next bit.
I dont think DHT is the cause of hairloss - Page 7 Enhanced-buzz-830-1305135024-12

I dont think DHT is the cause of hairloss - Page 7 Enhanced-buzz-830-1305135024-12

Also, I hope CS is making money off of what he does man, he deserves it for how much help he's given all of us.

LawOfThelema Sat May 26, 2012 9:14 am

2020 wrote:
SlowMoe wrote:I guess brushing your scalp or doing the Margo method inhibits PGA2 huh. They grow hair, can't be the circulation.

You have far too little faith.

margo's method has been around since 1980's!!!

again: DON'T MENTION CIRCULATION UNTIL YOU RESPOND TO THIS STUDY!!!!

The author transplanted composite skin grafts from balding, non-balding, and bald areas of the scalp, to the skin of the arm. The galea aponeurotica was trimmed away from the grafts. The patient was a 29-year-old male with progressive male pattern baldness (MPB).

The transplants from the balding area became bald at the same rate as the balding donor site in the receding frontal hairline, whereas the transplants taken from the non-balding in the occiput continued to grow the same amount and quality of terminal hairs. Bald grafts taken in front of the receding hairline remained bald. This shows that the cause of MPB lies in the follicle itself or in its very close surrounding and does not depend on the galea aponeurotica, the increased tension of the scalp or of its muscles; the diminished vascular supply to the scalp or any other regional factor localized to the head area. It also shows that the “balding clock” keeps time even when the follicle is transplanted to another region of the body.”

I think ALC alrready addressed this. The donor hairs for whatever reason are able to self initiate revascularization. So they are receiving circulation if they don't die from shock because they rejuvinate the local circulation around the follicle. It wasnt entirely clear why those hairs are capable of doing that. It's just a property of healthy hair follicles I guess.

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:19 am

a2020, I understand you have a hard time with this whole science thing, so I'll be blatant. What I said did conclude what you asked, you asked me if PGD2 levels were an indicator of something, whether subtle or not, was going wrong with your health. Then, I responded by showing you that the Prostoglandin family is activated by inflammation, I don't know if you know this or not, but inflammation is a bad thing, it's a sign that your body is attacking something most often some form of infection. Which again, goes back to the study I posted from a while back about leukocytes in the hair follicles of AGA patients, I even previously posted evidence that inflammation (the interleukins) can upregulate Androgen Receptors.

PGD2 IS NOT ELEVATED ALL OVER YOUR BODY!!! It's only present on the scalp!

a
Also, I hope CS is making money off of what he does man, he deserves it for how much help he's given all of us.

where are the pictures?? Who regrew anything??

SlowMoe Sat May 26, 2012 9:20 am

2020 wrote:
SlowMoe wrote:When I shaved my head I noticed my scalp was extremely tight in the MPB areas only, loose where it was full.... Coincidence?

And regardless of what caused the poor scalp circulation in the MPB group of the study, the fact is that people with full hair have good circulation to their scalps, balding scalps have 60% LESS bloodflow to their scalp. Bottom line. If circulation had nothing to do with it, there would not have been a very very significant difference to the tune of 60%

Good circulation = full hair
Bad circulation = balding head

Plain as day.

what the hell?? I said DON'T MENTION CIRCULATION EVER AGAIN WITHOUT RESPONDING TO MY LAST POST WHERE I TALK ABOUT THAT STUDY. WHY ARE YOU MENTIONING CIRCULATION AGAIN?!!?

Hey bro, why you typing all loud and stuff for?
People grow hair all the time by enhancing circulation. I'm one of them. Get over it.

I'm with you that traditional MPB is something other than infections, ect. But there are varying degrees of MPB. Some people bald very early, some bald very late. I'm sure if androgen receptors ARE a factor, that some MPB sufferers have more or less than others. There are a lot of factors involved. It's not just gene = hair death. IMO Less androgens = more hair. Better circulation = more hair.
Better diet = better hair. Wider arteries (less calcification) = better hair.
The more issues you tackle, the more hair you will have.

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:20 am

LawOfThelema wrote:
I think ALC alrready addressed this. The donor hairs for whatever reason are able to self initiate revascularization. So they are receiving circulation if they don't die from shock because they rejuvinate the local circulation around the follicle. It wasnt entirely clear why those hairs are capable of doing that. It's just a property of healthy hair follicles I guess.

this is the wildest theory ever! You can guess all you want, the fact is that donor dominance is a real thing

LawOfThelema Sat May 26, 2012 9:22 am

It's not a theory it was a paper from a prominent institute which deals in hair restoration. The point was, circulation is involed with donor dominance, because the follicle regenerates the circulation around the follicle itself. It doesnt prove that circulation is a non issue. Go back and reread it. It was posted in this thread. To me That the hair from balding areas cant regenerate means that the conditions of balding are mainly localized to hair follicles themselves.

a<r Sat May 26, 2012 9:25 am

2020 wrote:
a2020, I understand you have a hard time with this whole science thing, so I'll be blatant. What I said did conclude what you asked, you asked me if PGD2 levels were an indicator of something, whether subtle or not, was going wrong with your health. Then, I responded by showing you that the Prostoglandin family is activated by inflammation, I don't know if you know this or not, but inflammation is a bad thing, it's a sign that your body is attacking something most often some form of infection. Which again, goes back to the study I posted from a while back about leukocytes in the hair follicles of AGA patients, I even previously posted evidence that inflammation (the interleukins) can upregulate Androgen Receptors.

PGD2 IS NOT ELEVATED ALL OVER YOUR BODY!!! It's only present on the scalp!

a
Also, I hope CS is making money off of what he does man, he deserves it for how much help he's given all of us.

where are the pictures?? Who regrew anything??

Pictures have been posted, CS has definitely had regrowth, I've also talked to him numerous times on Skype and he's got awesome hair, you'd know that ... had you looked.

Regarding PGD2 not being elevated all over the body, I don't recall ever saying it was ... you're ignoring what PGD2 indicates in the first place ... infection, derp?

I dont think DHT is the cause of hairloss - Page 7 Science_cat_1

I dont think DHT is the cause of hairloss - Page 7 Science_cat_1

SlowMoe Sat May 26, 2012 9:26 am

Also, someone said the scalp is the only site of PGD2. Could it maybe be it's the area of the body with the worst circulation in MPB sufferers (maybe the hypoxic environment allows undesireables to manifest, such as in cancer cells)

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:27 am

SlowMoe wrote:
Hey bro, why you typing all loud and stuff for?
People grow hair all the time by enhancing circulation. I'm one of them. Get over it.

1) you used that oil that reduces COX-2 and PGD2....
2) show us clear pictures!!

SlowMoe wrote:
I'm with you that traditional MPB is something other than infections, ect. But there are varying degrees of MPB. Some people bald very early, some bald very late. I'm sure if androgen receptors ARE a factor, that some MPB sufferers have more or less than others. There are a lot of factors involved. It's not just gene = hair death.

you're probably balding at the exact same age at exact same rate... are you not?

SlowMoe wrote:
IMO Less androgens = more hair. Better circulation = more hair.
Better diet = better hair. Wider arteries (less calcification) = better hair.
The more issues you tackle, the more hair you will have.

explain to me this guy: I dont think DHT is the cause of hairloss - Page 7 Fattest-man

LawOfThelema Sat May 26, 2012 9:27 am

Regarding PGD2 not being elevated all over the body, I don't recall ever saying it was ... you're ignoring what PGD2 indicates in the first place ... infection, derp?

It indicates an inflammation localized to where the PGD2 is being released. Infection and inflammation are not identical. Infections cause inflammation but the presense of inflammation does not automatically mean infection.

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:28 am

a
2020 wrote:
a2020, I understand you have a hard time with this whole science thing, so I'll be blatant. What I said did conclude what you asked, you asked me if PGD2 levels were an indicator of something, whether subtle or not, was going wrong with your health. Then, I responded by showing you that the Prostoglandin family is activated by inflammation, I don't know if you know this or not, but inflammation is a bad thing, it's a sign that your body is attacking something most often some form of infection. Which again, goes back to the study I posted from a while back about leukocytes in the hair follicles of AGA patients, I even previously posted evidence that inflammation (the interleukins) can upregulate Androgen Receptors.

PGD2 IS NOT ELEVATED ALL OVER YOUR BODY!!! It's only present on the scalp!

a
Also, I hope CS is making money off of what he does man, he deserves it for how much help he's given all of us.

where are the pictures?? Who regrew anything??

Pictures have been posted, CS has definitely had regrowth, I've also talked to him numerous times on Skype and he's got awesome hair, you'd know that ... had you looked.

Regarding PGD2 not being elevated all over the body, I don't recall ever saying it was ... you're ignoring what PGD2 indicates in the first place ... infection, derp?

link?

a<r Sat May 26, 2012 9:40 am

I'll try to dig up the thread, it's bookmarked on my old computer which is in Alberta, a Province away from me Gimme a minute. You're still ignoring the implications of localized Prostoglandins though.

SlowMoe Sat May 26, 2012 9:43 am

I, along with others reversed MPB with no drugs. Get over it. Smile

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:45 am

SlowMoe wrote:I, along with others reversed MPB with no drugs. Get over it.

pictures pictures....

SlowMoe Sat May 26, 2012 9:51 am

Why would I make that up?

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 9:54 am

SlowMoe wrote:Why would I make that up?

to maintain your pathetic reputation on this silly forum? rabbit

SlowMoe Sat May 26, 2012 10:00 am

How can I have a good reputation if I am dishonest?

Threre are hundreds of UN BIASED studies on the web discussing the positive effects of bloodflow on hair. UN BIASED

Guest Sat May 26, 2012 10:01 am

SlowMoe wrote:How can I have a good reputation if I am dishonest?

Threre are hundreds of UN BIASED studies on the web discussing the positive effects of bloodflow on hair. UN BIASED

where are your pictures and can you show me a study where they INCREASED CIRCULATION and the subject regrew hair?

SlowMoe Sat May 26, 2012 10:06 am

Please tell me who's gonna fund a study like that? Find me another study proving it doesn't...

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