I dont think DHT is the cause of hairloss

2020 wrote:
true, however the source of that problem is genetic or else you would be able to normalize those PGD2 levels by "perfecting" your health which won't work.... sure, you can play around with all those supplements and maybe your levels will go down a little but since you're dealing with a genetic condition, only an actual drug would be able to knock PGD2 effectively

If you're in a "perfect" natural state of health, excess ANYTHING wouldn't be present.

Satan wrote:
Quoting Danny Roddy, "I think of genes as "the gun" and diet as "the trigger." This is true for much more than baldness. Genes are not destiny.

so you seriously believe that if you lived your life "perfectly" from day 1 you would have never went bald? You could perhaps slow it down if you knew what the exact problem was but that's it..

Satan wrote:

2020 wrote:
true, however the source of that problem is genetic or else you would be able to normalize those PGD2 levels by "perfecting" your health which won't work.... sure, you can play around with all those supplements and maybe your levels will go down a little but since you're dealing with a genetic condition, only an actual drug would be able to knock PGD2 effectively

If you're in a "perfect" natural state of health, excess ANYTHING wouldn't be present.

what do you mean? Perfecting health == perfect PGD2 levels?

2020 wrote:
so you seriously believe that if you lived your life "perfectly" from day 1 you would have never went bald? You could perhaps slow it down if you knew what the exact problem was but that's it..

No, that is exactly the case.

2020 wrote:what do you mean? Perfecting health == perfect PGD2 levels?

Wouldn't excess or too low levels of anything negate the term "perfect"?

First of all, I don't really know if it's genetic or not.

What I do know, is that minoxidil works, and it increases circulation.

I also know that several people on this forum, myself included, have regrown hair using ONLY circulation enhancing methods.

You say it's the other way around... Small follicles need less blood...maybe... BUT........introduce more blood and more hair grows. It's that simple. Ive seen it with my own eyes. Dont need a laboratory study to prove it. So yes, absolutely, without a doubt.........circulation plays a huge part in hair loss.

Satan wrote:
No, that is exactly the case.

and what makes you think that?

Satan wrote:
Wouldn't excess or too low levels of anything negate the term "perfect"?

you lost me....

would perfecting your health normalize your PGD2 levels == yes or no?

Do you even know what a Prostoglandin is? Derpin' all up in this thread.

Ban.

schpiloch123 wrote:Violatedbird: If you are so convinced that the follicles are programmed to shrink and die, and there is not much we can do it about, why do you visit this site? The reason I like this site is because the people here try and find the other possible causes for hair loss and don't just believe what they are told by the medical community (Not just limited to hair loss either).

The problem with modern western medicine is that they have no belief in the power of the mind, but its well documented that positive thinking along with common sensical treatments have the biggest impact.

IMO if people didn't have a huge stick up their asses about herbal treatments, and natural curing, they would be far more succesfull. Whereas all the drugs we are given by big pharma work so well at treating the symptoms probably due to the fact that people will blindly believe what a conventional doctor tells them.

Sigh. I knew what I said would fly over at least one person's head. Congratulations for being that person.

If you read my post carefully, I explain that the genetic REQUIREMENT relates to androgen sensitivity. That is why it occurs in eugonadal males and not castraded males nor females. This is undisputed.

I also explain that I do believe in the goals of this forum. That is to say, I believe that follicular atrophy due to androgen sensitivity can be mitigated by other means which include anti-oxidants, anti-inflammatory agents, growth factors, supplements that inhibit fibrosis and collagen breakdown (or overgrowth), supplements that prevent calcification...

What blew right past you is that the meat of my post related (astonishingly) to the title of this thread in which the OP suggests that DHT has nothing to do with hair loss.

I am completely on the "natural cures" side of things. I just don't think it is useful to plug our ears when the androgneic component of AGA (androgenic alopecia) is discussed.

SlowMoe wrote:First of all, I don't really know if it's genetic or not.

strike one!

no, seriously. Do you not have bald members in your family? Do a genetic test, see if comes back negative.

SlowMoe wrote:
What I do know, is that minoxidil works, and it increases circulation.

strike two! omfg was there not a study posted on this exact forum about how minoxidil ACTUALLY AFFECTS THE CELLS OF THE FOLLICLE and has absolutely nothing to do with circulation since the test was done in a petri dish where there was no circulation???

Minoxidil == increases PGE2. PGE2 helps grow hair. That's why it works! Check the official/revised study by divinelabs

SlowMoe wrote:
I also know that several people on this forum, myself included, have regrown hair using ONLY circulation enhancing methods.

what are they exactly?

SlowMoe wrote:
You say it's the other way around... Small follicles need less blood...maybe... BUT........introduce more blood and more hair grows. It's that simple. Ive seen it with my own eyes. Dont need a laboratory study to prove it. So yes, absolutely, without a doubt.........circulation plays a huge part in hair loss.

I just posted you the proof that circulation has nothing to do with it... please explain me why that study worked if circulation was the problem.... PLEASE!

aDo you even know what a Prostoglandin is? Derpin' all up in this thread.

why are character attacks are so prevalent in "alternate" forums?

imprisoned-radical wrote:Ban.

ban for what? Prove me wrong and I'll leave

ViolatedBird wrote:
I also explain that I do believe in the goals of this forum. That is to say, I believe that follicular atrophy due to androgen sensitivity can be mitigated by other means which include anti-oxidants, anti-inflammatory agents, growth factors, supplements that inhibit fibrosis and collagen breakdown (or overgrowth), supplements that prevent calcification...

and that's all there is!

2020 wrote:
and what makes you think that?

When you spend time reading a forum that doesn't constantly preach that genetics are the only cause, or that the only way to stop it is with the "Big 3", your mind opens up to other possibilities. Before discovering this forum, I would have told you that chemo is the only cancer treatment and that getting sick in the winter was "normal". Solving hair loss goes much deeper than the follicle. If you look around, this is more of a health forum than a hair forum, and for a reason.

2020 wrote:
you lost me....

would perfecting your health normalize your PGD2 levels == yes or no?

I think I've made it clear enough.

You dodged my question, do you even know what a prostoglandin is?

SlowMoe wrote:First of all, I don't really know if it's genetic or not.

What I do know, is that minoxidil works, and it increases circulation.

I also know that several people on this forum, myself included, have regrown hair using ONLY circulation enhancing methods.

You say it's the other way around... Small follicles need less blood...maybe... BUT........introduce more blood and more hair grows. It's that simple. Ive seen it with my own eyes. Dont need a laboratory study to prove it. So yes, absolutely, without a doubt.........circulation plays a huge part in hair loss.

The minoxidil question is an interesting one. We can't look at it "just" as a vasodilator. It's aslo a potassium channel opener. If any generic vasodilator works to temporarily halt male pattern hair loss, then we can reasonably hypothesize that it relates to blood flow. For now, we have to presume that the renewed anagen phases provided in SOME men with MBP relates more to the potassium channel opening.

Of course, the problem with minoxidil is that all of the minoxidil supported hair follicles fall out as soon as you stop using it... as explained below:

"Minoxidil stimulates hair follicles and growth, but does not reduce DHT or the enzyme responsible for its accumulation around the hair follicle, 5-alpha reductase, which is the primary mediator of male pattern baldness in genetically susceptible individuals.[18] Therefore, when treatment is stopped, the DHT has its expected effect of shrinking and ultimately destroying the genetically predisposed hair follicles."

Satan wrote:
When you spend time reading a forum that doesn't constantly preach that genetics are the only cause, or that the only way to stop it is with the "Big 3", your mind opens up to other possibilities. Before discovering this forum, I would have told you that chemo is the only cancer treatment and that getting sick in the winter was "normal". Solving hair loss goes much deeper than the follicle.

no dude.... the only reason why so many people use big 3 is because THEY ACTUALLY WORK. Sure, it would be much better to solve the root problem of MPB but we don't know what it is so in the meantime the rules for most people are pretty much like this: if you want to keep hair - you gotta use big 3/

Satan wrote:
If you look around, this is more of a health forum than a hair forum, and for a reason.

and I said that your current health won't really change a thing... if you have the gene, you will get MPB no matter what. If you follow every little detail that this forum suggests, you may be able to slow it down but that's it.

Satan wrote:
I think I've made it clear enough.

it would have been even less typing if you just typed YES or NO.... okay whatever your current response probably makes you seem smart even though I'm pretty sure you don't even know the answer

aYou dodged my question, do you even know what a prostoglandin is?

because that was a stupid question.... what's the point of asking it? even if I didn't, I could have just googled it in 2 minutes and write you a summary. It won't prove anything

2020, thats a real positive outlook to have........ Lets just all take Big pharma medicines and ignore natural alternatives ya!!!!!!!

I don't need a study to prove or disprove what Ive seen with my own eyes.

I've revived hairs on my scalp without blocking a lick of DHT. By ONLY massaging my head and drinking tea that increases circulation.

There is plenty of evidence out there.

So by that logic, knowing the underlying mechanisms, causes, and role of prostoglandins won't help us understand ... prostoglandins? What?

blueman99 wrote:2020, thats a real positive outlook to have........ Lets just all take Big pharma medicines and ignore natural alternatives ya!!!!!!!

I didn't say that I use big 3... I just explained why it's so convenient for other people to use it

SlowMoe wrote:I don't need a study to prove or disprove what Ive seen with my own eyes.

I've revived hairs on my scalp without blocking a lick of DHT. By ONLY massaging my head and drinking tea that increases circulation.

what tea was it?

SlowMoe wrote:
There us plenty of evidence out there.

explain the study I've posted before. PLEASE DO SO before ever mentioning circulation again.

aSo by that logic, knowing the underlying mechanisms, causes, and role of prostoglandins won't help us understand ... prostoglandins? What?

what are you talking about?

quote feature having a gooey time made me double post