Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

So I shaved my hair to a grade 2 yesterday (helps me not to give a fuck about hair) and noticed something interesting. Certain areas of my hair seem to be thickened substantially, and they are in pattern with where the skin folds. Iv taken some photos to show this, both of me scrunching the top of my scalp, and it relaxed.
Take what you will from these photos, but I would like some feedback to see what you guys think. I dont think the difference in shade is simply because of wrinkles, when I zoom in I can see darker terminal hairs (but minds do play games..).
Also this is the exact same thing as 2young2retire (the dermaroller guru) demonstrated in another forum, with photos. He too put it down to scalp massage.

Anyway photos..

Scalp during scrunch:





Scalp relaxed:

Bruh, the way you were advertising dt, I thought your hair would look amazing by now, it look worst than before......

bogv51 wrote:Bruh, the way you were advertising dt, I thought your hair would look amazing by now, it look worst than before......

Hey troll, I didn't upload to show progress, I uploaded to show people the pattern of regrowth I'm experiencing, and how it correlates with the fold lines of my scalp.
Make some useful feedback or stop wasting words.

You should be having progress, though, since you preach it. No harsh words nor intentions, but I'm pointing out the obvious.

Growdamnit wrote:You should be having progress, though, since you preach it. No harsh words nor intentions, but I'm pointing out the obvious.

I am having progress, and I have stabalised my aggressive hairloss (no shedding in 6+ months) and regrown some hair in the past year and a half or so. If anyone was expecting NW4 to NW1 in 10 months then sorry to dissapoint, but you need to wake the f*** up. The only case I have seen anything like that is guys taking immunosuppressants (not a good idea).

Preach it? Here's my opinion (not other peoples opinion of my opinion) - DT works, to some extent, though I don't really believe it addresses the root cause. I think it works similar to minoxidil, by boosting bloodflow mostly, but also works by breaking down scar tissue from years of inflammation. The same could be said for dermarolling/wounding, though I cant call any single treatment a 'cure'.

I also take a few supplements and believe them to work (by different mechanisms), though I don't 'preach' them.

Again to reiterate, I only decided to make a post today to show some thickening on the scalp fold lines, NOT to compare my hair now to an old photo with different length/lighting etc etc.

What a day to come back here! Mr Showers just showed everyone how this works. Obviously, when HS does this, his scalp has taken to folding in the same spots. Those same spots (fold lines) continuously are receiving the most torque and voila, way more hair there. If HS can change up his method a bit to deliver that torque evenly, guess what happens?

Now, to the sore finger people, and maybe help HS along the way....this does not take strength and calloused fingers. Can you deliver torque to a unique spot? Use the fingers of both hands and pinch a bit of scalp between them. Hold the pinch and start raising your palms so that your fingers, while still pinching a fold of scalp, start to point down, toward your brain. Listen to what happens! That ain't Rice Crispies.

Carry on.

PS, Congrats HS. Change that routine up!

I don't think most have the forearm strength to cause callouses on their fingers, but I have known some to have very strong forearm strength genetically. What is a rough massage to them, may be a physically impossible massage for several of us...

Anyway, interesting observation hairy and thank you for posting. To those hating on his progress, stabilizing aggressive hair loss is no easy matter. Had his hair loss been slower progressing, perhaps he'd have results like Keanosegs, but for his situation this is a victory.

Remember, even on finasteride you're lucky to maintain. To go up full norwoods you need to be a strong responder to minox+dermaroll, or transplant. What DT can do is improve your hair quality and give you some minor regrowth if you keep up with it long enough, at least this is what I believe.

Damn Showers, it's almost like someone took a marker and drew on the folded areas and that's exactly where the hair grew, that's pretty encouraging, great job!

My scalp isn't quite as loose yet...Could you give a little more insight into your technique?

EDIT:  Well I've tried doing what drex suggests, pinching with two hands and then raising up, but I don't get that crunch sound everyone talks about (I did a few times and got excited before I realized it was just my hair crunching together, lol)

hairyshowers wrote:So I shaved my hair to a grade 2 yesterday (helps me not to give a fuck about hair) and noticed something interesting. Certain areas of my hair seem to be thickened substantially, and they are in pattern with where the skin folds.

Pretty impressive experimental results showers, now only if you can apply it to all over your head...... did you do anything special to loosen your scalp?

Thanks for posting HS.

I guess my burning question is, am I actually doing damage to the small peripheral nerves on my finger tips from putting pressure for 20-30 minutes?? I would think the fingertips are more resilient than that...

OR, is it just a normal bodily response to maybe create slightly thicker more tough skin in those areas creating the feeling of decreased sensitivity. I couldn't care less if this was the case..

Man if I could just get a definitive answer on this I would be golden..

*edit: and jeez, I'm really surprised no one has at least slightly decreased sensitivity in their main pressing finger tips..

You are not doing damage to your fucking fingertips for the last time. I'm an experienced rock climber and have been climbing for years. You are not doing damage.

Grow I understand your frustration with my questioning.

I would really like to stfu about it, but I just don't know how to explain the decreased sensitivity in the two main pinching fingers. That's all

Have you experienced this at all with rock climbing?

sizzlinghairs wrote:Grow I understand your frustration with my questioning.

I would really like to stfu about it, but I just don't know how to explain the decreased sensitivity in the two main pinching fingers. That's all

Have you experienced this at all with rock climbing?

Why not just see a doctor?

And ontop of that, while you're there, you can ask him to examine your scalp to see how DT is going!

sizzlinghairs wrote:...am I actually doing damage to the small peripheral nerves on my finger tips from putting pressure for 20-30 minutes??
I would think the fingertips are more resilient than that....

Without medical specialist/evaluation - any advice would be a guess!
Just like there are ppl that have hair growing all their life and others lose it early in life, you are probably doing some damage if you're feeling pain - even though others do not have pain.

I felt some pain in my joints at the start of DT (Drex1999 Apr 28, 2014 instructions), even though I was pressing at a level that shouldn't have caused problems, I opted for a $3 massager from the SuperMarket!

I have changed to drex1999 May 05, 2015 instructions:
press, push, lift hand/massager, roll up massager point, hold, hold, hold, gently release, push and pull back to create a stretch, etc! This massager works well in following that protocol and you should not feel pain to your fingertips or joints! (Wrists and forearms, who knows?!)

Gripping the massager with your hand and using the massager points as your fingers, you will get a harder and longer workout with a similar massager.

Plus, it's easier to carry out a CROSS-HATCH (Drex1999 Apr 28, 2014 instructions) across your entire head and I use all four points when I'm cross-hatching, pressing down, left/right stretch, press down/circle stretch, etc. (If I have time after a 20min DT Session, I'll press all four points down and twist left/right as far in each direction as possible to give my scalp a different press/stretch.)

I haven't looked for one with more massage points, maybe if someone has/seen one they can send me a PM please.

Sorry, sizzling, but no, I haven't experienced that. If you really want, go see a doctor, but I assure you that you are doing nothing terribly wrong to your fingers.

HairOfReason wrote:

sizzlinghairs wrote:...am I actually doing damage to the small peripheral nerves on my finger tips from putting pressure for 20-30 minutes??
I would think the fingertips are more resilient than that....

Without medical specialist/evaluation - any advice would be a guess!
Just like there are ppl that have hair growing all their life and others lose it early in life, you are probably doing some damage if you're feeling pain - even though others do not have pain.

I felt some pain in my joints at the start of DT (Drex1999 Apr 28, 2014 instructions), even though I was pressing at a level that shouldn't have caused problems, I opted for a $3 massager from the SuperMarket!

I have changed to drex1999 May 05, 2015 instructions:
press, push, lift hand/massager, roll up massager point, hold, hold, hold, gently release, push and pull back to create a stretch, etc! This massager works well in following that protocol and you should not feel pain to your fingertips or joints! (Wrists and forearms, who knows?!)

Gripping the massager with your hand and using the massager points as your fingers, you will get a harder and longer workout with a similar massager.

Plus, it's easier to carry out a CROSS-HATCH (Drex1999 Apr 28, 2014 instructions) across your entire head and I use all four points when I'm cross-hatching, pressing down, left/right stretch, press down/circle stretch, etc. (If I have time after a 20min DT Session, I'll press all four points down and twist left/right as far in each direction as possible to give my scalp a different press/stretch.)

I haven't looked for one with more massage points, maybe if someone has/seen one they can send me a PM please.

1. That paper you linked too about thickness of scalp, very interesting. Do you have the link to the original study please?

2. I have the massager you own too but this one does the job just as good (for pressing, gripping etc.) but many more points of contact, so less work, the shape moulds to your head somewhat too, because of how it's designed:



First time I used that going front/back direction on my head couldn't believe how tight my scalp was around the baldy part, was actually painful to massage in that direction (left/right direction not nearly as painful)

Columbo wrote:1. That paper you linked too about thickness of scalp, very interesting. Do you have the link to the original study please?

2. I have the massager you own too but this one does the job just as good (for pressing, gripping etc.) but many more points of contact, so less work, the shape moulds to your head somewhat too, because of how it's designed:



First time I used that going front/back direction on my head couldn't believe how tight my scalp was around the baldy part, was actually painful to massage in that direction (left/right direction not nearly as painful)

1. Are you asking about the original DT Study?
The link is in the first thread - this page might be in the 3rd or 4th thread now.

2. Thanks for your post/picture. Yes, the massager you mention has it's advantages. It's terrific for pressing/gripping/side-to-side. It's limited on twist/stretch - area not as great as the massager I mentioned and not as effective for pinching when you use two of them.

For carrying out drex1999 May 05, 2015 instructions the massager I mentioned to sizzlinghairs mimics fingertips. It allows the pressing/pushing/lifting into a tight pinch as per The drex1999 Protocol - where as the hand press massager you listed above is not as easy to use with both hands to create the pinch to mimic how your fingers do it.

I'm looking for a similar massager (two) to the one I have - but with more 'forward fingers' to allow for a greater pinch area as I would have with my fingers/both hands.

Guys.. I personally can't vouch for DT since I haven't even stuck to it... but the fact that that blogger publicises ROB's method is very worrying to me.. WHY? because if you look at the right hand of the blog you'll see "top posts" or "recent posts" and look at what they are...... basically advertising other stuff... which makes me think DT is just ONE more of these scams which require fake personalities to advertise them on the web... i mean, we all know that the best reviews of scams are in independent blogs.


i literally won't do DT until someone posts their progress pics without resorting to different lighting or angles or pulling hair back in a different manner ( cough* keanoseg cough*)

I don't like using my hands that much to do DT, it's tiring.

Instead I do headstands to flatten the big lump at the top, but I should probably do some more.

Then I get to my frontal scalp. I've found that pushing my scalp down the ground and rotating is making the skin quite pink, so I'm sticking to it. I followup with scalpbrushing, which tends to get those nasty white goop stuff, and dead skin out.
I fold a t-shirt, put it on the floor, and then place my frontal scalp on it. Then I push hard down to the ground(Look out for neck stain ofc ), and rotate my head, still applying pressure, so the area of contact is moving from frontal to temporal along the hairline. It is giving me a refreshing tingling sensation after I do it, so I'm sticking with it.
I do the movement along the lymph flow path, so from midline down to ears/back of head

I had right below the hairline, midline of the forehead a "lump" that I've always been aware of, but not sure what to do of. I have been able to squeeze that lump by doing that, so it's a little bit flatter now, and not that palapable.

So I saw a hand specialist.

-He basically said, due to the specific area (tiny portion of fingertips), he doesn't think it could be compression neuropathy from 30-40 minutes of pinching. He hasn't heard of anything like that before, but at the same time he said that doesn't mean 100% its not happening. He said its not an impossibility.

-He didn't think it was likely to be callousing, he didn't feel or see indications of it, but said it could still be possible it was happening at a very early stage underneath.

-He said it could possibly be desensitization of the tiny peripheral nerves. I asked if I stopped could it resume feeling. He said theoretically yes. I asked if the desensitization could lead to damage. He said he didn't think so (im still confused about this).

At the end of the day, he didnt think I was doing damage due to the area and anatomy of the nerves at that part of the finger. He said if it gets worse, to come back and see him.

Uhg. Well it still leaves me a bit in limbo. Both rob and JD experienced the numbness, but for Rob it took 8 months of daily DT. For me its happening 1 week into it.. Rob took a month off (did brush tapping in the meantime), came back a little lighter at times and he was all good. Considering how fast my onset is, I dont think that would do the trick for me. For JD, all he did was go a little lighter, which hasnt worked for me. I guess I have a sensitive nerve anatomy.

Through trial and error, I have concluded that using my hands is the most effective for me. Nothing else really does the trick in my case.. But if I am desensitizing my nerves or even leaving a *minimal* possibility open for doing damage (according to doc) its really hard for me to make a peaceful and sound decision about this. I wish something else worked as a good alternative for me, but that hasnt been the case. And I would like to replicate what Rob and the original study are doing. (90% of poeple getting results also use hands.)

I wish I could just say, "f*ck it, just chill out and do the damn DT" but I cant bring myself to a peacefully mental place about this.

Could someone explain to me the difference between desensitization and nerve damage? How would you guys go about this if you were in my shoes? I just want to continue DT happily and peacefully. That is all. I just want to stop thinking about this pesky nerve stuff, but dont want to be compromising my body in the name of hair.

Just poppin through. Beena a while and not gonna read all the stuff I missed since it seems to be mostly more of the same old same old....

At any rate I'm convinced that the crunching is a vital part of the process. I originally had no crunching and then eventually (6-7months?) started getting the crunching sound at my temples. Now it has slowly spread so that I get the crunching on almost my entire head. It's been interesting watching it slowly spread. I would swear my head is flatter now too... But maybe I'm imagining that.... don't know.

At any rate I started DT for the first like 4 month son just my right temple and and then added the left in once I looked like it was showing promise. The difference between the two is quite large now but the left is very clearly going through the same process as the right did. Over the past few months I have been quite consistently shedding though. I've had some overall thinning but I've jsut stuck to it and now in the past few weeks when I comb me hair back there's a ton of new hairs coming in and popping through the long hairs.

I didn't give up because I had a couple solo hairs that have been in the same spot below my hairline since years ago when I was on pharma stuff. THose hairs have been largely swallowed up on the right and on the left there's a good 10 terminal hairs and whole whack of other promising guys who don't have pigment yet filling in the area.

I don't know that this works for everybody but it sure as hell works for me. I'd love to know exactly why. I'd LOVE to know what that crunching is too. I've showed friends the sound to make sure it isn't only audible to me and they can all hear it. I also have noticed that since my scalp has gotten looser when the crunching happens I can kind of feel stuff compressing in my scalp almost like little bubbles popping or beads rubbing against each-other but super small. I can't "feel" them specifically but intuitively that's what my brain feels like is happening.

anyway not coming here and sticking to DT seems to do the trick for me so I won't be back for a while. My phone contract is up in late fall so maybe I'll get one with decent camera and then I'll upload some pics.

Good luck!

Duketronix wrote:Just poppin through.  Beena a while and not gonna read all the stuff I missed since it seems to  be mostly more of the same old same old....

At any rate I'm convinced that the crunching is a vital part of the process.  I originally had no crunching and then eventually (6-7months?) started getting the crunching sound at my temples.  Now it has slowly spread so that I get the crunching on almost my entire head.  It's been interesting watching it slowly spread.  I would swear my head is flatter now too...  But maybe I'm imagining that.... don't know.  

At any rate I started DT for the first like 4 month son just my right temple and and then added the left in once I looked like it was showing promise.  The difference between the two is quite large now but the left is very clearly going through the same process as the right did.  Over the past few months I have been quite consistently shedding though.  I've had some overall thinning but I've jsut stuck to it and now in the past few weeks when I comb me hair back there's a ton of new hairs coming in and popping through the long hairs.

I didn't give up because I had a couple solo hairs that have been in the same spot below my hairline since years ago when I was on pharma stuff.  THose hairs have been largely swallowed up on the right and on the left there's a good 10 terminal hairs and whole whack of other promising guys who don't have pigment yet filling in the area.

I don't know that this works for everybody but it sure as hell works for me.  I'd love to know exactly why.  I'd LOVE to know what that crunching is too.  I've showed friends the sound to make sure it isn't only audible to me and they can all hear it.  I also have noticed that since my scalp has gotten looser when the crunching happens I can kind of feel stuff compressing in my scalp almost like little bubbles popping or beads rubbing against each-other but super small.  I can't "feel" them specifically but intuitively that's what my brain feels like is happening.

anyway not coming here and sticking to DT seems to do the trick for me so I won't be back for a while.  My phone contract is up in late fall so maybe I'll get one with decent camera and then I'll upload some pics.

Good luck!

Hey Duke

Good to hear of your progress!  How long did it take for your scalp to loosen up?  Are you using the two hand pinch technique?

About the crunching, I really want to hear that too, but I've probably only been doing DT properly for 2-3 weeks (I heard it a few times and got excited, but then realized it was my hair getting crunched together ).

How much dandruff/dead skin/sebum are you getting with each session?  I have to add a vigorous rubbing motion to really get that, and boar bristle tapping/smashing too.

Honest to God my scalp feels looser today, definitely a difference.

EDIT:  Just realized you said you wouldn't be back, never mind  

Oh and by the way, a question to everyone here, has anyone ever taken their boar bristle brush, placed it somewhere on their scalp, kept it still, and pressed it down with the other hand?  I find that when I do this, I IMMEDIATELY get a lot of dead skin/dandruff to break loose.  It stings a little bit, but it's really nothing.

Also, after I do that boar bristle "smashing" or whatever you want to call it, I spray my Apple Cider Vinegar on those areas, and boy, does it sting so good The sting lasts a good while too!

Thoughts?

I've got the DT "growth" lines too but tbh I'm not sure it's actually growth rather than just an optical illusion based on a now permanently indented line in my head, like a big wrinkle. I have to wonder if this is like a supercharged method to create wrinkles from the constant folding.

So you're still doing DT? So you're getting the fold lines on the top of your scalp as well like hairy showers? (I'm assuming your hair is cut short)

What do you mean by permanent? You saying if you take a break for a day or 2 or maybe a week they'll still be there? Or what if your try to even it out and fold elsewhere?

It also seems hairy is doing a lot of scalp scrunching. Is this what you're doing mainly to have permanent fold lines?

I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing these "permanent indentations"? (I don't think I am..

sizzlinghairs wrote:So you're still doing DT? So you're getting the fold lines on the top of your scalp as well like hairy showers? (I'm assuming your hair is cut short)

What do you mean by permanent? You saying if you take a break for a day or 2 or maybe a week they'll still be there? Or what if your try to even it out and fold elsewhere?

It also seems hairy is doing a lot of scalp scrunching. Is this what you're doing mainly to have permanent fold lines?

I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing these "permanent indentations"? (I don't think I am..

Sorry dude I don't mean to trigger you since you seem a bit prone to hypochondriac type thinking. I haven't done DT much for many months now but I can still see what appears to be thicker hair in the some of the prior fold zones. I can't feel much if any indent there now though so I'm not sure if it's actually an indent.