Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

SonofOdin wrote:Do what feels right John when it comes to how much pressure you use. This is all I can say because all us men in this thread have such different strength levels that another man's moderate pressure could be anothers full power. I think the exercises throughout the day can help. I did DT for long periods and I felt good afterwards.

Thanks, and yes you're right, you need to do what feels right for you.

Even if I go with almost maximum force combined with "eagle claw" nail pinching, my head/scalp won't really hurt or feel "sore".  However it usually feels like my head wants to float away after DT

Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that consciously (it's very difficult at first) relaxing my frontalis/occipital muscles (the ones that make your eyebrows raise, and wiggle your ears, used in Tom Hagerty's exercises), may have contributed a lot to helping DT loosen up my scalp.

As for the pictures, I could post them now but there's nothing to compare them too, making them useless, so it will be awhile. Also they aren't going to be NASA quality so I'm going to be yelled at by skeptics either way, come at me

I haven't been paying much attention to any other areas besides my vertex and temples, so I'm changing that immediately with deep, general massages in the back, sides and crown along with the laxity scrunching.

Is this the same John Doe that commented on JD Moyer's post?

That John described the excretion of a 'glue-like substance' during the massage. I've begun to experience this too. I'm wondering if you (or anyone else) has experienced this as a pre-cursor to hair-regrowth?

Hotspur wrote:Is this the same John Doe that commented on JD Moyer's post?

That John described the excretion of a 'glue-like substance' during the massage. I've begun to experience this too. I'm wondering if you (or anyone else) has experienced this as a pre-cursor to hair-regrowth?

Yeah that's me!

Where did you experience this substance from?  Initially I experienced it from above my left temple kind of on the side, hard to explain, but then I experienced it in the back of my scalp and a tiny bit on the vertex even.

It was very weird, just like glue.  Definitely wasn't sebum.  It happened immediately after I started DT semi-properly with kneading.  Regardless of people's feelings about DT, this substance can't possibly have been good remaining under the scalp.

The only thing I worry about is that my head/scalp doesn't really feel sore or hurt after my DT sessions, and I put a lot of effort into them. My head just feels like it wants to float away instead due to relaxation.

I've experienced this recently along my hairline and within a pinch of my left temple.

I've been applying the technique for over 4 months. During that time my hairline has receded. However, for most of that time I've been applying it wrong via just pressing and not pinching.

I was disappointed in JD for not producing a video and closing down the thread. I hope someone with results produces an in-depth video tutorial on this. Rob's video is too light on detail.

it was oil, or sebum. what else could it have been?

Hotspur wrote:I've experienced this recently along my hairline and within a pinch of my left temple.

I've been applying the technique for over 4 months. During that time my hairline has receded. However, for most of that time I've been applying it wrong via just pressing and not pinching.

I was disappointed in JD for not producing a video and closing down the thread. I hope someone with results produces an in-depth video tutorial on this. Rob's video is too light on detail.  

Yeah, JD answered plenty of questions though, but without a video it's really hard.

I'm using drex's technique of "finger painting" along with xyro's method (previous page). My DT sessions are long so that if I'm not doing it completely right I can hopefully make up for it.

ROFL, we can call it sebum or oil. Anything else is conjecture. What matters to me is that the composition was significantly different. Is that a sign of progress? Time will tell.

John, I understand your description of 'floating'. I chose to reduce the time massaging my scalp and stay within the parameters of Choy's dubious study. I think recovery time is vital.

I'll check out Drex & Xyro's methods. Thanks for the heads up : )

Hotspur wrote:ROFL, we can call it sebum or oil. Anything else is conjecture. What matters to me is that the composition was significantly different. Is that a sign of progress? Time will tell.

John, I understand your description of 'floating'. I chose to reduce the time massaging my scalp and stay within the parameters of Choy's dubious study. I think recovery time is vital.

I'll check out Drex & Xyro's methods. Thanks for the heads up : )

Sure thing, here's drex's description:  https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t9446p765-detumescence-therapy-dedicated-volunteers-wanted

I actually focus on keeping my scalp as loose as possible throughout the day even when my DT session is over.  I just gently plant my fingers (hard enough to avoid slipping/friction) and scrunch a whole area, not just for example the left or right temple, but both temples including the widows peak, then do the same thing at the vertex, and now I'm working on the back a lot too.

As for recovery time, I always wonder if I'm giving myself enough time or if I'm going too hard.  My head never "hurts" or feels really "sore" after DT.  I'm thinking about only doing DT on the weekdays and on the weekends just doing a nice deep massage and laxity exercises.

Also, one other thing I've noticed;

My extreme gains in scalp laxity have come after I worked very hard to consciously relax my whole face/forehead/occipital muscles. Might be a coincidence but I think they are working together. Just try raising your eyebrows and doing DT, it's almost impossible! Your scalp will be super tight.

UPDATE:

I thought I should mention I wasn't even doing the stretching, just the kneading/pinching (almost always two handed), until I found keano's post here on page 1:  https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t10871-detumescence-therapy-dedicated-volunteers-wanted

I've incorporated this as one of my main methods of DT, I barely did any stretching before today.

Probably going to start topical MSM spray (MSM + distilled water) soon too, found a good MSM powder (OptiMSM).

You guys who are having success with this method: please post a video or two on how to do it right. Some of us can't visualize based on your written posts alone.

No, you don't have to show your face or anything. Please just demonstrate it on basketball / soccerball / volleyball covered by blanket, then massage the blanket as if you massage your scalp. It's actually better that way then demonstrating it on your scalp because your hair blocks the view.

You can even name the video Cute Basketball or something so people don't know what it's actual purpose for lol

I'm officially on month 4. It's thinning like crazy now. I'm trying so hard NOT to friction my fingers and going deep and it's still shedding like crazy. The hair is crazy thin right now. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Is the scalp elastic? Yes. Can I pinch anywhere on the scalp? Yes. Is the scalp more flat? Yes.

Is it regrowing? No. Is it shedding and thinning? Yes.

I don't even have sebum / pimples coming out of scalp anymore. I think I've maxed out.

As far as diet, I've taken care of it. No gluten, no wheat, very paleo-ish.

thisainteasy wrote:You guys who are having success with this method: please post a video or two on how to do it right. Some of us can't visualize based on your written posts alone.

No, you don't have to show your face or anything. Please just demonstrate it on basketball / soccerball / volleyball covered by blanket, then massage the blanket as if you massage your scalp. It's actually better that way then demonstrating it on your scalp because your hair blocks the view.

You can even name the video Cute Basketball or something so people don't know what it's actual purpose for lol

I'm officially on month 4. It's thinning like crazy now. I'm trying so hard NOT to friction my fingers and going deep and it's still shedding like crazy. The hair is crazy thin right now. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Is the scalp elastic? Yes. Can I pinch anywhere on the scalp? Yes. Is the scalp more flat? Yes.

Is it regrowing? No. Is it shedding and thinning? Yes.

I don't even have sebum / pimples coming out of scalp anymore. I think I've maxed out.

As far as diet, I've taken care of it. No gluten, no wheat, very paleo-ish.

I would but I don't know if I'm even doing it right lol

You say you are pressing and going deep but are you kneading, stretching and pinching?  I just discovered the stretching part based on keano's post on page 1 and it certainly feels different and was probably an important part that I was missing.

Also 4 months is still early

The "official" method based on the study (which most people agree was conducted very poorly) is to use one hand and pinch the scalp with what looks like the pads of the fingers, we're not even sure if they used the nails or not.

Also, I thought I could "pinch" everywhere on my scalp too but I find that in the back, and on top sides (if that makes sense) some small areas are pretty rigid. I measure "pinch" by using my nails and being able to pinch a good portion of scalp between them and lift it up.

johndoe1225 wrote:

thisainteasy wrote:You guys who are having success with this method: please post a video or two on how to do it right. Some of us can't visualize based on your written posts alone.

No, you don't have to show your face or anything. Please just demonstrate it on basketball / soccerball / volleyball covered by blanket, then massage the blanket as if you massage your scalp. It's actually better that way then demonstrating it on your scalp because your hair blocks the view.

You can even name the video Cute Basketball or something so people don't know what it's actual purpose for lol

I'm officially on month 4. It's thinning like crazy now. I'm trying so hard NOT to friction my fingers and going deep and it's still shedding like crazy. The hair is crazy thin right now. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Is the scalp elastic? Yes. Can I pinch anywhere on the scalp? Yes. Is the scalp more flat? Yes.

Is it regrowing? No. Is it shedding and thinning? Yes.

I don't even have sebum / pimples coming out of scalp anymore. I think I've maxed out.

As far as diet, I've taken care of it. No gluten, no wheat, very paleo-ish.

I would but I don't know if I'm even doing it right lol

You say you are pressing and going deep but are you kneading, stretching and pinching?  I just discovered the stretching part based on keano's post on page 1 and it certainly feels different and was probably an important part that I was missing.

Also 4 months is still early

The "official" method based on the study (which most people agree was conducted very poorly) is to use one hand and pinch the scalp with what looks like the pads of the fingers, we're not even sure if they used the nails or not.

Also, I thought I could "pinch" everywhere on my scalp too but I find that in the back, and on top sides (if that makes sense) some small areas are pretty rigid.  I measure "pinch" by using my nails and being able to pinch a good portion of scalp between them and lift it up.

Your enthusiasm is great John.

Easy, I'm sorry to hear your struggling. I promise if I have success I'll post a video too.

I have been doing this for well over a year. It doesn't work. Give it up.

Growdamnit wrote:I have been doing this for well over a year. It doesn't work. Give it up.

No, bro. It didn't work for you.

I've read your messages throughout this thread and I was willing you to succeed.

Other than DT, what other approaches have you tried to reverse hair-loss?

Have you tried the self-diagnostics outlined in Danny Roddy's video series?

Growdamnit wrote:I have been doing this for well over a year. It doesn't work. Give it up.

How many times are you going to say this?

As many times as it take to deter people from a method that doesn't work. Derma-needling has more backing than this.

I am 25 years old and in insane physical shape. I don't have an ounce of fat on my body and eat healthy and whole fruits and vegetables every day. I also take nearly every supplement that IH recommends and exercise 4 times out of the week.

Show me where D-Roddy had hair loss, I would love to have seen it.

I don't want people to succumb into the same pit fall that I did. This method doesn't work.

Growdamnit wrote:As many times as it take to deter people from a method that doesn't work. Derma-needling has more backing than this.

I am 25 years old and in insane physical shape. I don't have an ounce of fat on my body and eat healthy and whole fruits and vegetables every day. I also take nearly every supplement that IH recommends and exercise 4 times out of the week.

Show me where D-Roddy had hair loss, I would love to have seen it.

I don't want people to succumb into the same pit fall that I did. This method doesn't work.

I don't know why you people can't just make a thread called "DT Doesn't Work" and leave this for its purpose, discussing DT techniques.

I am on a hair loss forum because I lost hair. I don't believe in drugs that screw up your body in more ways than one. DT is supposed to be a natural method that grows hair. Not one fucking person has showed pictures in which they actually got their hair back. I have done the method longer than most people still in the thread and still you ignore my warnings. Go ahead and lose your hair, I really don't give a shit if you don't want to listen.

Growdamnit wrote:I am on a hair loss forum because I lost hair. I don't believe in drugs that screw up your body in more ways than one. DT is supposed to be a natural method that grows hair. Not one fucking person has showed pictures in which they actually got their hair back. I have done the method longer than most people still in the thread and still you ignore my warnings. Go ahead and lose your hair, I really don't give a shit if you don't want to listen.

Multiple people posted pictures, got flamed and ended up leaving.  And I certainly don't blame them.

Again, post your own thread, "DT Doesn't Work".

Loosening up and massaging your scalp can't possibly be bad.

EDIT:  I have been paying attention to massaging the sides and crown/back of my head for the last two days or so, and have gotten a release of that sticky glue-like substance that I described previously right away, very interesting.

I've read these threads up and down and I'm noticing something that may be important.  If you don't feel like you have a thick or hardened scalp, DT may not be an option.

Growdammit felt the entire time like he was grinding his skin against the bone.   I have to say at the moment, i feel the same way.

The people who claimed to have results describe a sticky discharge or release. BelieveInIt, JD Moyer, the Rob guy from PHH, the guy who claimed to use the rocks. Maybe a few others.   I think there's a definite physical difference in how your body produces the conditions that create the MPB. It might explain the difference in patterns and why certain people are swearing by a treatment and posting pictures of results and there are others (like Growdammit) that are disillusioned and dissapointed.

I think if you don't have that build-up, DT won't work for you. I've been assaulting my head for a week now and I cannot get it to produce the amount of sebum discharge people keep describing. Nor can i really get it to become significantly looser. When I pinch I can only get the skin to barely lift off of my head. It maybe comes up 1/4 inch or so?
I had been doing the tom haggerty exercise for 4 months prior and my scalp had become oily when i did it BUT it was also the dead of summer so it might be more a factor of sweating. In any case i doubt i removed all of the trapped 'grease' if there was any.


Since i can't pinch adequately for this method, in the short term while i re-think my options, I have been taking a wooden pin brush and pressing that against against my scalp and massaging. There's only one place where i fee like stuff may be gathered under my skin and that's in the widow's peak area. Everywhere else feels like i'm pushing the brush into my scalp bones.  the stuff in my widows peak essentially is gone... i hope i'm not left with one island of hair right up front, haha.

It would be good if there was an objective test for this to determine if this build-up is there so people don't waste their time if it's not likely to work for them. Something like a hardness test comes to mind...

Growdamnit wrote:
Show me where D-Roddy had hair loss, I would love to have seen it.

I don't want people to succumb into the same pit fall that I did. This method doesn't work.

Grow, you're doing a great job of playing the victim here. There are many people who've had mild to meaningful success with this method. Don't dissuade others from trying because you failed.

I don't agree with all of Roddy's recommendations. That said, correcting TSH, Prolactin and Vitamin D levels are probably smart moves. Spend your time productively and concentrate on the solutions.

StillSomeTime wrote:
Since i can't pinch adequately for this method, in the short term while i re-think my options, I have been taking a wooden pin brush and pressing that against against my scalp and massaging. There's only one place where i fee like stuff may be gathered under my skin and that's in the widow's peak area. Everywhere else feels like i'm pushing the brush into my scalp bones.  the stuff in my widows peak essentially is gone... i hope i'm not left with one island of hair right up front, haha.

Hey time, I find that even after months of DT, switching to keano's pinch and STRETCH motion (plant both hands, full pinch, then full stretch, repeat, move to other area, repeat, etc) has given me a release of dandruff and that glue-like crap you mention, so that might be worth trying to loosen up your scalp with.

Growdamnit wrote:I am on a hair loss forum because I lost hair. I don't believe in drugs that screw up your body in more ways than one. DT is supposed to be a natural method that grows hair. Not one fucking person has showed pictures in which they actually got their hair back. I have done the method longer than most people still in the thread and still you ignore my warnings. Go ahead and lose your hair, I really don't give a shit if you don't want to listen.

Grow, not worth wasting your breath, man, you saw how many pricks attacked me for exposing the "method" for the hoax it is. If they want to believe it works, let them believe what they want to believe. If newbs want to buy into their bullshit? Fuck 'em. They'll be in the same situation as you in a years time with a heavily receded hairline, and Complexx and Co will return under a new guise telling them they're doing it all wrong.

Xenon wrote:

Growdamnit wrote:I am on a hair loss forum because I lost hair. I don't believe in drugs that screw up your body in more ways than one. DT is supposed to be a natural method that grows hair. Not one fucking person has showed pictures in which they actually got their hair back. I have done the method longer than most people still in the thread and still you ignore my warnings. Go ahead and lose your hair, I really don't give a shit if you don't want to listen.

Grow, not worth wasting your breath, man, you saw how many pricks attacked me for exposing the "method" for the hoax it is. If they want to believe it works, let them believe what they want to believe. If newbs want to buy into their bullshit? Fuck 'em. They'll be in the same situation as you in a years time with a heavily receded hairline, and Complexx and Co will return under a new guise telling them they're doing it all wrong.

I feel sorry for you poor bastards. This method didn't work for you. Those that say it has are lying or blind. And nobody else should bother discussing the issue through fear of offending you?

I'm cynical. I think Choy's study is dubious for a variety of reasons. That said, scalp massage is free, has anecdotal support -- Albeit Mixed -- and has a smattering of supportive scientific references.

As John recommended, perhaps you can start your own thread?

Hotspur wrote:

Xenon wrote:

Growdamnit wrote:I am on a hair loss forum because I lost hair. I don't believe in drugs that screw up your body in more ways than one. DT is supposed to be a natural method that grows hair. Not one fucking person has showed pictures in which they actually got their hair back. I have done the method longer than most people still in the thread and still you ignore my warnings. Go ahead and lose your hair, I really don't give a shit if you don't want to listen.

Grow, not worth wasting your breath, man, you saw how many pricks attacked me for exposing the "method" for the hoax it is. If they want to believe it works, let them believe what they want to believe. If newbs want to buy into their bullshit? Fuck 'em. They'll be in the same situation as you in a years time with a heavily receded hairline, and Complexx and Co will return under a new guise telling them they're doing it all wrong.

I feel sorry for you poor bastards. This method didn't work for you. Those that say it has are lying or blind. And nobody else should bother discussing the issue through fear of offending you?

I'm cynical. I think Choy's study is dubious for a variety of reasons. That said, scalp massage is free, has anecdotal support -- Albeit Mixed -- and has a smattering of supportive scientific references.

As John recommended, perhaps you can start your own thread?

Agreed, it's not worth arguing with them, just look through early pages of this thread, it goes on for pages, and pages, and pages, they say "This is my last post on this issue", and they come back like 20 times and say it again.

If you don't think this method is valid, or if it didn't work for you, well, fine, stop doing it.  All I can say is that my scalp is much, much looser, MUCH more relaxed, and after around 3 or so months (I stopped for a month though so I'm not even sure how to adjust for that), when I touch and knead my scalp, it feels healthy, like real skin rather than like a tight drum...tarp...whatever thing you stretch over a drum.  I also have a lot more feeling in my temple areas, they aren't as numb as they used to be by a long shot.

It's basically scalp massage...Come on...

Off topic, I accidentally swalled a bit of Nizoral in the shower today and it scared the hell out of me, I couldn't make myself vomit though so whatever

Bit of advice, keep your mouth closed when using that stuff!