detumescence really works.

rofl wrote:'As for shaving, that is common knowledge that shaving does indeed make hairs grow back thicker'

lol, thats one of the oldest myths out there.  if u believe that, youll believe anything.

hair DOES NOT grow back thicker when u cut or shave it.  it just looks thicker, because a strand of hair is thicker at the base, so when u cut it at the base you're cutting it at a thicker point than further along, hence looks thicker.  sorry to burst your bubble.

   
     I was not claiming that repeated shaving of an area would every time make the hair grow back thicker.  I said it is not a cure for baldness.  I do believe that the first few times  shaving an area does exfoliate, stimulate blood flow, and intensely scrape/ micro cut/strip  the skin like dermabrasion/microdermabrasion that is a clinical treatment to stimulate hair growth. For normal hair , the diameter of the follicle may be already be set, for MPB the diameter is reduced and is subject to expansion if treated properly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/16/AR2007051601326.html  wounding can increase hair growth in mice
http://www.newbeauty.com/blog/dailybeauty/7201-your-scalp-needs-a-facial-too/    microdermabrasion  to promote hair growth
http://www.sutherlandshairandbeauty.com/services/hair-salon/hair-thinning-treatment/
http://lifestyle9.org/how-long-does-it-take-for-eyebrows-to-grow-back/     exfoliation to regrow eyebrows

 Lets agree you are correct in that the scientific consensus is that shaving just "looks" like your hair is thicker and courser, and that is why it has been observed/claimed by so many people.  If my goal is to have thicker looking hair grow back, shaving sounds like a good first step, even according to what you wrote about the thicker part of the hair showing. This is because the hair that grows back is indeed (and agreed) a thicker diameter at many points. This shows up as a courser fuller hair because the old tapered hair was  less diameter at many measurable points.

Wow, I started getting serious about the hard knuckle pressing and rubbing, and it quickly makes my head want to float away, such a strange feeling!

Also, I felt one of the ridges/bumps/whatever you want to call it in my scalp depress ever so slightly which probably wouldn't have happened with just my fingers, so maybe the key is intense pressure

Yes the slight indentations are what I look for when I do the grid pattern with 5 second presses.  What I hope your floating feeling is caused by is the increased oxygen being delivered to the scalp, near the brain.  You can look for dilated vessels,  it does take some firm pressure to get them bulging.
    A new thought is about the long term full body damage that tooth decay can cause if untreated. I wonder about MPB and the bacteria infested pores, especially with the dying  of demox mites in the pores. This could effect the brain, as the blood supply is said to be shared in that area with some veins running through the cranium bones.  One of my theories is that the loss of the hair is the body closing the infected follicles from bacterial invasion with basically scar tissue.  Some of the cadaver work that I linked to in a previous post also saw that the bald guys had the plates of the cranium calcify together to even reduce the shared brain/ scalp blood flow.
     Here is a related article.
"     Some research suggests there may be a tie between poor oral health and an increased risk of dementia. One study that followed 118 nuns between the ages of 75 and 98 found that those with the fewest teeth were most likely to suffer dementia. Experts think oral bacteria may spread to the brain through cranial nerves that connect to the jaw or through the bloodstream, and may contribute to the type of plaque that’s been linked to Alzheimer’s.
http://www.prevention.com/health/health-concerns/gum-disease-can-cause-serious-illness
  If I can see clearly that my new hairs are reaching extended length growth; I am going to try to expand the number of people trying this inexpensive treatment. I think baldness is a curse on the world.  Imagine is there was a free cure for MPB.  How many men would be happier and more secure ? They might not exploit  women so often, or be cut throat to gain possessions to make themselves feel good about their image.
     I am not talking "we are the world" fantasy.  I am talking about places where life is more brutal like some arab countries , Africa, India,  where men in their middle age have power to wage economic or real exploitation and violence. I do think that some of it is sourced in frustration  over losing their ability to attract  beautiful women.  Like I said I live in Thailand and I see what bald middle aged men will do to get attractive women.  At the least they send/spend $1000 USD a month is normal.
    So the point is that the world would be a better place if half of the guys were not suffering from mange and bacteria polluting their brains.  

you said this....

'As for shaving, that is common knowledge that shaving does indeed make hairs grow back thicker'

thats a direct quote. i didnt change it, just cut and pasted it. instead of trying to talk your way out of it, why not just admit you were wrong? (or misled)

rofl wrote:you said this....

'As for shaving, that is common knowledge that shaving does indeed make hairs grow back thicker'

thats a direct quote. i didnt change it, just cut and pasted it.  instead of trying to talk your way out of it, why not just admit you were wrong? (or misled)

  How about you stop taking my quotes out of context and wasting my time arguing about if a hair that is measurably thicker at many points is indeed considered a thicker hair?
   Really if you have useful things to share involving your vast expertise on hair regrowth;  and your success pictures, please post a link. If not let people read what is said an context and let them decide what they think.
  The common knowledge about shaving does not include the conclusion that repeated shaving continuously  expands hair follicles until a dog like fur is achieved.  The common knowledge is that the first times shaving an area produces a change in texture and hair overall thickness.  I went on to expand that given the research and treatments with MPB regrowth,  shaving (especially dry) may have the possibility to effect the actual diameter of the  follicle.
   This has very little to do with your demeaning comment about my entire bubble will burst if shaving once will not produce amazing results. Like I said , it would be a better world if people had more on their mind than baldness.

relax people ....no need to fight.

ok just for the record DT have a side effict ...i notic my neck muscle is strengthened

i think in a few months i will be like "THE ROCK"

long hair wrote:relax people ....no need to fight.

ok just for the record DT have a side effict ...i notic  my neck muscle is strengthened

i think in a few months  i will be like "THE ROCK"

Tom Hagerty also has neck exercises you do by pressing your tongue on the roof of your mouth, it's on shapeyourface

Also, is it possible to get your scalp so loose that it causes your forehead to get all wrinkly by sliding down too far off your scalp or something? I really don't think so but...

As I wait for the shaved sides to lengthen, I noticed that my top grafts area is growing back so fast that I had better document it so it is believable. These pictures surprised me how well the camera captures the growth.  These photos are of the very front of my grafts, near the front of the forehead, taken from a side angle.  What looks like new growth is the lengthening of the light fuzz that was shown about a week ago in a previous post. You can see the mature hairs are the grafts,  everything else is new growth. The entire upper scalp is filling in like this, the area pictured is probably 5 inches from my receding hairline.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151125.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151126.jpg

cdto2012 wrote:As I wait for the shaved sides to lengthen, I noticed that my top grafts area is growing back so fast that I had better document it so it is believable. These pictures surprised me how well the camera captures the growth.  These photos are of the very front of my grafts, near the front of the forehead, taken from a side angle.  What looks like new growth is the lengthening of the light fuzz that was shown about a week ago in a previous post. You can see the mature hairs are the grafts,  everything else is new growth. The entire upper scalp is filling in like this, the area pictured is probably 5 inches from my receding hairline.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151125.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151126.jpg

Congrats on your excellent progress

You are documenting it really well, it will be undeniable proof

Can I ask how is your scalp laxity? Like, can you pinch your scalp all over with two or three fingers and lift it up? I'm really just focusing on the pressing now rather than laxity since it seems I have more or less good laxity.

Hi, It is fun to watch the progress every day. To have hundreds of new hairs looking like they are going to grow is a new world for me.
My pinching and squeezing time is only about 15% of my massage time. The top of my head/ scalp is still pretty thick and not easily pinched with 2 fingers. It is regrowing, so I just continue with the scan pattern pressing into the skin with 2 hands and the bottle. My skin is not sore anymore, and only a few deep points are sensitive near the temples. I am doing about 30 minutes 2-3 times a day.
Tomorrow is the weekly meat tenderizer for 3 hour treatment. In a few days I will post the sides , they are filling in well

cdto2012 wrote:Hi,    It is fun to watch the progress every day. To have hundreds of new hairs looking like they are going to grow is a new world for me.
  My pinching and squeezing time is only about 15% of my massage time. The top of my head/ scalp is still pretty thick and not easily pinched with 2 fingers.  It is regrowing, so I just continue with the scan pattern pressing into the skin with 2 hands and the bottle. My skin is not sore anymore, and only a few deep points are sensitive near the temples. I am doing about 30 minutes 2-3 times a day.
  Tomorrow is the weekly meat tenderizer for 3 hour treatment. In a few days I will post the sides , they are filling in well

Ok cool, looking forward to it!

I'm just paranoid that I might make my scalp too loose and cause horrible wrinkles on my forehead.  I started a skincare routine just in case that involves apple cider vinegar, lemon slices, coconut oil and olive oil applied on my forehead and area under the eyes.

Come to think of it, I should add MSM to that too!

cdto2012 wrote:As I wait for the shaved sides to lengthen, I noticed that my top grafts area is growing back so fast that I had better document it so it is believable. These pictures surprised me how well the camera captures the growth.  These photos are of the very front of my grafts, near the front of the forehead, taken from a side angle.  What looks like new growth is the lengthening of the light fuzz that was shown about a week ago in a previous post. You can see the mature hairs are the grafts,  everything else is new growth. The entire upper scalp is filling in like this, the area pictured is probably 5 inches from my receding hairline.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151125.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151126.jpg

so good ...you are on the way .. i think in few month you will going to fill your front scalp.
so can you post a pic of this bottle and what edge you use?
ok ..for me i wake up today and i notice my scalp is very dry and there is some thing whit on it looks like a salt specially on thos dark lines from DT .so i had to aply some olive oil on it and it been ok with that .
@john ..no wrinkle at my forehead ..stop woring...keep doing it if any thing wrong happened then you can stop it.

Shaving does not make your hair thicker, same goes for beard...

Just using any plastic vitamin bottle with the rounded bottom edge as pictured. I use the long sides for the lower forehead. I am traveling and tried with my knuckles, not too easy on the knuckles, so I am using the rounded edge of my cell phone charger for this trip. Actually my routine will be interrupted a bit, as I did not bring my olive oil mix or meat tenderizer.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/plain-10.jpg
As for the rate of grow back, it will surely take months. The rate and diameter of the hair is less than a normal hair, but so many hairs seem like they are ready to grow to new lengths.
As for dead skin. Even the guy that I linked to that was questioned about being an ebook promoter; he mentioned that after a few months he also had something like "cradle caps" . I saw this also after my first meat tenderizer treatment. It is a good sign that the scalp is removing dead skin.
Everybody has unique skin and process to regrow. Better to test and try things slowly, rather than shock and damage anything. I started with needling years ago, wisdom before impatience to get the body to safely cooperate.

bogv51 wrote:Shaving does not make your hair thicker, same goes for beard...

At the risk of beating a dead horse,   I  will add more about shaving because I think it is part of the treatment being discussed. Exfoliation by means of enzyme, dermabrasion, microdermabrasion, and dermarollers are all recognized treatments to thicken hair follicle diameter for people where removal of dead skin is beneficial. Links are posted previously.
      To say that shaving is useless to thicken the diameter of hairs is based on many weak assumptions. Sure if you tested/shaved a healthy hair growing skin , with a fixed/maximized diameter, shaving does not change the genetics and expand follicles.        
      Where the tests done on people with partly blocked follicles due to dead skin build up ? Were the tests done on all parts of the body with all kinds of hair types, and oily vs dry skin  ? Were the tests done comparing young vs old patients?  Were the tests done by shaving without lubricants and different depths of skin layer removals ?  
       The point is that ruling out a tool that is as powerful as dermabrasion as "useless" for regrowing thicker hair is dead end thinking. Shaving dry for exfoliation is a form of micro brusing like a dermaroller, that stimulates blood flow, and a healing response. This is different than a well lubricated casual shave on perfectly healthy young skin.
      It is being seen even in the photos of regrowth that I am posting, that after enzyme treatment, I have "caps" of dead skin. These caps are probably blocking follicle diameter, hair growth, proper skin oxygenation, and when removed by dry shaving I am seeing that the diameter of the follicle opening is larger regrowing thicker hair.
       I am not trying to make the other posters look wrong about what they correctly claim about a very limited study/ observation.  I am just saying that the breakthroughs happen when we are open to expand on the original basic study beyond "typical healthy skin" being shaved under limited test conditions. Then forming a blanket rule that covers/negates/invalidates all other possible test conditions and diversities.

 " Dermabrasion is a technique that uses a wire brush or a diamond wheel with rough edges (called a burr or fraise) to remove the upper layers of the skin. The brush or burr rotates rapidly, taking off and leveling (abrading or planing) the top layers of the skin. "

https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=dermabrasion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=Cy5CVsmDCsf9uATLuYOwAQ#q=dermabrasion+and+hair+regrowth

"Always use a good quality sharp razor blade. Be sure the blade is sharp. You're not just cutting off hair, you're also scraping off up to two layers of surface skin when you shave."

https://www.men-uusa.com/care_shave.html

thanx cdto2012 ...i already  have a hundreds of small hair grow by using VR randomly for 6 month + 3 month of DT , the hair  between forehead and center of my head is 1~7mm long ,and today i notic a hundreds of 1mm at the front sides ..this hair are thin and now they did not show more progres so they are not visible enough to cover i believe your tech will help me to cover fast may be one or tow month.
i almost stoped the VR now , but i saw some thing very important a few months a go..
the spark is too long when i use it on the area where the hair grow thick and healthy BUT at the bald areas it is  short ...long spark mean the current go through low resistance and short spark mean high resistance ..this resistance come from the oil ..oil used to kill the arc inside electrical transformer it is known for high resistivity..
also that mean bald areas have a lack of water ..water is essential to cary the signal between the cells and ofcures  water cant stay in a same place with oil .

Hi,     Longhair  your success sounds interesting. If you could give the full name of the "VR" treatment and maybe a link. Sounds like it works well with DT, and congratulations on the progress.
  I got some pure cinnamon oil this week, that really turns the scalp red with blood flow. I also got jojoba oil, tumeric oil, neem oil, and a new enzyme treatment to try.
      I looked back to when I started my treatment , it was Oct 18 or 19th ( I am in a different time zone). So the total day count is around 24 . Seems like longer, as last month was 31 days.  
   
      I am going to start a thread on basic technique to photographing and detecting growth.  I have learned a few things.  If you have never done it, for example, you might think in the photos that if small hairs are not showing in the surrounding area there are none.  In my photos there are hairs growing in many other places; but the light, background,  camera focus, and angle has to be just right to see any of the early growth hairs.
     As for the photos,  some most are of the side temple that got shaved and has been growing back like 6-7 days (a job to keep track of the chronology ).  They would probably be twice as long if I had not shaved them, but I really wanted the exfoliation effect. The shave was done on the first few weeks of all new regrowth.
The farthest back longer hairs in some of the photos is just from the normal hair. Looking forward to photographing  these areas when these hairs have time to grow to more length.  For now the rate of growth is constant and is evident to me that the treatment has caused regrowth over my entire original hair coverage area in a really short amount of time.


https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151129.jpg  
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151130.jpg  
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151132.jpg   top  area

https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151127.jpg   single extra thick hair example away from hairline, farthest back hairs are just ends of regular hairs
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151131.jpg  trying to show how the hair continues down the side of scalp, but I am traveling and the light is not as useful as home.

** for other posters that include my entire writings as included quote, if you can just take sections of the post-- I have to do a few edits every time to test links etc, and if people use your entire quote ,  they may not have the edited version.. thanks

Oh man, I really massaged my scalp good today with two handed pinches, pressing and hard knuckle pressure, it felt supple underneath the skin afterwards for a short while and I actually got a headache, must be on the right path!

Oh, by the way, I recently added Black Tea Theaflavin extract (one capsule every other day, 350 mg standardized to 87.5 mg) for the last week, and my libido has been enormous ever since starting it, making Nofap exponentially harder, as if it wasn't bad enough!  I take this as a good thing though. Absolutely no side effects whatsoever so far, like it's not even there, so that's good. Eventually I want to take one a day at least.

are there any videos showing the techniques? if it's effective- is it easy to DIY myself ?

I have read that there are short videos out there is you search for them.  My postings are based on my personal deep pressure process, different than an basic finger or pinching massage.  It is described in detail in previous threads. Also I added a very easy to get enzyme treatment along with tea tree oil. Yes this is the most basic of DIY treatments available.

cdto2012 ...VR is a VIOLET RAY machine it is an antique medical appliance made by Tesla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJvEHt9g1Fk
it is good for general health and anti aging

and also  Mr. Maliniak  use it  as a part of his  Method because it is known for skin healing ability
http://bornagainhair.com/

alot of people buy it when he told his story , it did'nt work for most of them so they came to cry about that at hairlosstalk forum and this forum too..
i still remeber the argue about it here :
https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t7243-pappilla-power-vs-maliniak-method
drex started a thread about MM on hairlosstalk forum but the guys there attack him hard so he had to run a way .

Wow excellent resources thanks for the links longhair.   I built and operated a plasma ray Rife frequency generator for many years. Also an old technology that has shown it's value over the years and is related in it's electromagnetic approach.
      I do agree that the links you posted are very relevant to DT and I recommend others check out especially the last 2 to learn about blood flow and massage and the galea .  
       For the VR machine,  I think the ozone it produces is beneficial. I think sparks will kill mites and bacteria on the skin. I am not sure that the depth of electrical penetration would do an excellent job massaging the  galea that is below the skin.
         The voltage and frequency are tuned to be high enough to stay on the surface of the skin only. Even with super high amperage, as long as the voltage and frequency are high enough, Tesla demonstrated that people can walk through the lightning. The VR uses a high surface voltage,  that is why it does not feel like a spark plug wire.  I think more effective would be an electrical muscle exerciser/contractor or a T.E.N.S. unit. Lower frequency, DC voltage, less expensive,  and more likely to effect the galea.
  VR may give micro burns like a laser would, or at least stimulate a beneficial healing response.  As you can gather, I am a supporter of micro bruising and healing responses to regenerate skin.
      The other 2 small concerns about the VR is that spark gaps produce X rays. Tesla was fascinated  by X rays and thought they were a healing tool. He died at a remarkably old age, even after being exposed to very high durations of radio frequency also from spark gaps.
        So I can see graphically  in the links why it is important to really work the galea with massage, they say the blood vessels for the hair follicles run through it.
        I will take the chance to report that with the healthier scalp and the enzyme treatments that an area on my scalp  crown that was always clogged up, like maybe the beginnings of skin sun cancer from surfing; actually has completely gone away.  The enzyme die off of dead skin is dramatic, and I could have been a little gentler ripping off the dead skin caps. I wanted to get a deep nail digging clean out of dead and blocking junk in my scalp. For most I would recommend oils and waiting for the skin to come off or shave if it is reasonable.  Again my gamble with directed violence payed off and the healed skin is rejuvenated and growing hair.
  For any of you that might have hand problems with massage. I am using a pure cinnamon oil on my scalp this week.  You might have to dilute it with a coconut oil or something. Cinnamon oil is hot enough to flush the skin red quickly and I can see my veins bulge just from this.  Yes is feels like chili peppers on the skin so go slow, but it is know to help hair loss and is a nice addition if you can get a pure oil.
I can feel the cinnamon in a few minutes in my brain, just showing how fast the shared blood and absorption occur. Just a reminder to not use mineral oil on the skin or any other toxins.

UzumakiNaruto wrote:are there any videos showing the techniques? if it's effective- is it easy to DIY myself ?

Check out "Reborn Hair PPP" channel on Youtube, he should have 3 videos but somebody reported the first video as breaking the rules for God knows why.

And yes DT is totally DIY

so did you exp any  Herxheimer reaction after using rife generator ?did you register the frequency at that point?
yes MM is good to  relaxe the galea very fast and enhance the blood circ ,so why it very slow to grow the hair again ?.... i think that because the massage deals only with the 6 muscle that fix the galea over our dome ....it did not deal with the  oil "tanks" inside our scalp which for me  is  one of the  big factors in the hair loss formula ( some say it contains dht). they do thier effort to stop sebum but they do not care about the the oil trapped insde for years ...but where the MM faild DT will succeed ..it is better to be done together and the VR will be just an optional if you don"t have a time for that .
if we could make  the particles of our follicle cells dance on it is natural helthy  frequency then hair will grow very fast ..VR generat frequencys but no one know the wright freq ....possibly the people who succed with MM adjust thier machines accedently to the wright frequency... lucky them.

Yes with Rife I  have experienced many detox, bacteria die off,  intestinal bacteria and parasite die offs. You really need a lab confirmation to direct treatments. Rife works on the upper harmonics of base frequencies, so you can find the base frequencies for hair growth online, but I doubt they are very effective.
  For me working on hair with frequencies is like trying to break a glass with sound. It is possible but a lot of precision work. And a hammer works better. I like the CPR style of what is working with DT now.  Hand pumping clearing the blood through, pressing out toxins, and excellent exfoliation.
    I have tried the electronic muscle contractors here in Asia. Not sure if they are world wide.  I would be very interested in trying one on the scalp, it might also really do wonders for the skin and vessels.
 Trying to not get too far off topic but they US Airforce was using scalp applied current to get 50% faster learning and training, I saw some DIY you tube vids on how to make these.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/amping-up-brain-function/
Would be great if the hair follicles learned to grow twice as fast too.

Found some links to make some equipment, wish I was in the USA to make the muscle contractor this weekend ... They sell them as massagers here, an interesting option for people with hand problems.. let your scalp massage it's self , then stand on your head to press

http://www.electroschematics.com/2083/electronic-muscle-stimulator/  simple circuit
555 timer is at Radio Shack.. wow runs on just a 9 volt battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=196kUzq63dY  muscle contractor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gafST5JrINw  brain stimulator