Supposed Regrowth Protocol

Sorry about that ! I will upload them myself then !

Just cook with coconut oil and you probably get half of that or more.

Here they are sorry:






Just a supposition, but those four pictures above may have been taken while he still was getting regrowth. His hair are obviously better than what we can see on the first photos in the first post of this thread, but you can see (thanks to the great amount of lighting), that his temples still aren't full yet.


(This one is most likely before he got on the regimen, since his hair was pretty bad at that time, diffuse thinning all around).


(This one shows that his hair quality has improved a lot, and those little hair on his temple may be due to regrowth, because his hairline seem to have progressed).


(I also think this one is a "before" picture).

There, now you should be able to see them !

Manoko,

Thanks for posting those.

I've got to say though that I don't think we can say anything about these either. First of all, the first four aren't showing anything different than the original photos. Its obvious he's got some slight thinning in the "air strip" region, just above the temple region on the lateral aspects of the frontal hairline. In these he is still going with growing it out longer and combing it in a favoring way. He looks fine though. Its just a mature hairline.

Now that fifth photo is going to fool people I think. Number one, I'm not sure that this is the same guy. For one the hair looks to be a different color and texture, which can happen when you go from long-to-short, so really it could still be him. I would say it likely is just based on the pics posted earlier. But the thing is, the lighting is deceiving here. It looks like his hair is unclean in this photo, and regardless of whether its oil or something else, its causing the hair to part in every which direction, i.e. clumping. This tends to happen when a guy's hair is really short like that. You see this all of the time with black guys who go really close to the skin. Without the added length, scalp is exposed more easily, especially when the hair gets oily or wet with product, or what have you. Overall I don't think we should consider this a "before" photo at all. If it is him, its not a proper before. Its making his hair look worse than what it actually was.

In the second to the last photo, nothing new here.

In the last pic, I also think he's getting some of the same effect mentioned about the fifth photo. I don't think there is any evidence here that his hair is different than it has been. Its just shorter and pushed in all different directions. Take the guy in this pic and grow it out and you could easily get the guy in the top four pics.

Its just overall I don't see anything that convincing as far as regrowth goes. I hate to be the pessimist, but this is just convenient photograph choice if you ask me.

You wouldn't think it's that hard to take proper before & after photos but apparently...

Though I must wonder what do these people gain, merely fooling themselves? Or also trying to fool others? It's silly.

I don't think they are trying to fool anyone. I think people are looking for fault. This guy has definitely had regrowth and thickening.

I already had all the supplements so I just added this on to doing my DT therapy and I gotta say, so far so good.

ONly been about a week but I am literally shedding no hair now and my scalp feels great.

I've been sleeping a lot better too.

Duketronix wrote:I already had all the supplements so I just added this on to doing my DT therapy and I gotta say, so far so good.

ONly been about a week but I am literally shedding no hair now and my scalp feels great.  

I've been sleeping a lot better too.  

Some people report very similar results, namely a stop in shedding and improvements on both sleep and energy levels very rapidly.

Here's a post from someone on another forum, just earlier in the day:

Big Update

So I've been on the low sugar grain free diet for 3 weeks and the supplement protocol for a little over two weeks and things are going very very well. I have felt the following

- My energy levels are the highest they have ever been since I can remeber, I'm not sluggish in the morning and I'm not crashing mid day.
- I'm sleeping the best I have ever slept (this is coming from a brah who usually rolls around in bed for an hour before falling asleep)
- My scalp itch is almost non exsistant at this point
- My Social anxiety seems way more controllable than ever, I've actually seen a boost in confidence (This could just be because I don't feel like a walking zombie all day anymore)
- My lifelong ravenous appetite is phucking gone, I'm not even craving food anymore I'm practically never hungry (I used be hungry all day, even 20 mins after eating I would be hungry again)
- My mind is sharp as a razor, I just feel so much more aware, the opposite of how I felt on propecia which made me feel like my brain was covered in cotton wool.
- The biggest news of all, I'm hardly shedding at all, and it looks like I have some tiny hairs sprouting up along my hair line. It's too soon to tell whether they are new hairs or just old hairs that have fallen out growing back, but I am phucking excited to say the least.

I will keep you all informed, but I am certain this protocol and diet are fixing issues I have had for a loooong time.

Hey, I wasn't trying to just blow up this protocol. Not at all.

I was just saying the pictures themselves aren't making me feel any differently about it, that they aren't really blowing my mind and convincing me this regimen is the holy grail. And if anything, it was the last pic of the second set that was posted which was the most convincing.

I'm still interested to see how people do on it, as there are some differences pointed out earlier between this and the IH regimen. But at the same time, I think outcomes are always going to be better for us if we establish faults first, and perhaps fail to find any, before we throw ourselves at anything. But I'm the typical laggard. Every group is made up of people who see something and jump right in, and those who stand back and wait to see what happens.

AS54 wrote:
this regimen is the holy grail.

it works and that it is no surprise, it might not be a complete recovery but it contains enough DHT inhibitors, thyroid boosters,
Candida killers and mineral support to make a huge difference in both hair loss control and growth.

It is nothing new, it is pretty much the Curezone protocol, the oils will flush the liver, the iodine/CO will kill Candida and stress
will be lowered by Taurine and Iodine support, etc, etc.

IMHO there will be no holy grail because each component of ourselves that has gone wrong and contributes to hair problems
has to be fixed by itself, the ramifications of this require personalised medicine to a large extent.

I think I'd challenge that argument, but only to the extent that it assumes men who keep their hair are free of any of these "personal" maladies. That assumption frees up a lot of questions. Are we to believe that men who never suffer from hair loss (save for the senescent loss everyone deals with very late in life) aren't dealing with any liver, thyroid, gut issues, especially when one of our biggest premises here is that these things are essentially unavoidable in our modern environment? So does this mean these men are all unconsciously doing something that protects them from those environmental insults? Or is it that we, as hair loss sufferers, have some critical combination of endocrine dysfunction, some special combination of thyroid and liver obstruction? If you choose to look at this as being incredibly personal to the individual, then you must be able to answer why the condition itself effects men 99.9% of the time, and is patterned. If a disease presents with the same phenotype in most sufferers - except for rate of progression - you have to assume a common etiology.

I just think that eliminates the idea of a totally personal MPB. There is some common physiological environment this is occurring in people with MPB. Its interesting also that we only tend to see this kind of thing occurring when science hasn't given us a clear pathology for a particular disease. When someone gets a dermatological lesion with a known pathology, it is diagnosed, and then it is treated. And none of us would blink at that. We understand what the disease is, it seems obvious, and its obvious that its cause is treated accordingly. But then when it comes to these conditions we don't understand (hair loss, cancer, autoimmune diseases) all you see everywhere in the blogosphere is talk about the personal manifestations of these diseases and that these diseases involve a unique set of circumstances for every sufferer.

I would imagine that we do this for any disease that isn't fully understood yet. When it is understood, the treatment tends to focus itself on the cause. Of course, this is not concerning itself with preventative medicine, which is hollistic by definition. But with hairloss, we aren't dealing with preventative anything, we are only concerned about it when we are already suffering. But my point is, I'm sure people received all kinds of disparate diagnoses for certain kinds of infections in the past when science hadn't found out what the pathogen was. Someone would get an infection, and some pseudo-healer would tell them, "Oh thats in the belly, drink this".

This still happens today, just in a prettier online package that make people seem very official and health-authoritative. I can think of some very specific examples of people, whose sites would have you thinking otherwise, who have absolutely zero business giving health advice to anyone, and yet people are listening.

My overall point is with things like hair loss and autoimmune disease, which don't have answers, the waters get very muddied, but its cognitive dissonance rearing its ugly head. On the one hand, we all accept that diseases which are well understood have distinct causes and we treat that cause. But then we turn around and refuse to believe there could be a ubiquitous etiology for MPB. Of course, there are a whole bunch of psychological factors for why we do those things. But I think its important to realize the assumption that causes for MPB are unique to the individual could have anyone doing a lot of crazy bullshit based on the notion they might be curing "their personal malady". I realize that anything hormonal could have several pathways which influence it, and in the alternative hollistic arm of healing we are trying to target all of these upstream things, but we should be clear that none of these upstream things is the cause of MPB, but rather just an influencing circumstance which may or may not alter the presentation of the disease when attenuated. I think its detrimental for people to believe that if they fix their thyroid their hair is going to come back, ya know? I'm not saying it won't influence your loss, I can't say that.

AS54 wrote:
e are trying to target all of these upstream things, but we should be clear that none of these upstream things is the cause of MPB, but rather just an influencing circumstance which may or may not alter the presentation of the disease when attenuated.

Sorry to cut down your post, but in answering this hope to show my viewpoint more clearly: of course that is what we're trying
to do, because that is all we CAN do - we can use scientific research in regards to hair growth and hair loss and try to shift
all the components that have been implicated in MBP and hope for the best and report our results.

AS54 wrote:
I think its detrimental for people to believe that if they fix their thyroid their hair is going to come back, ya know? I'm not saying it won't influence your loss, I can't say that.

IMHO that isn't what is being said, in this case this protocol was given by a person suffering from CF/IBS/Hair loss and then
made some claims about hair loss but it wasn't to the general public (private forum) and it wasn't for money (supplements
aren't linked?) and each supplement claim has largely been studied for its use (not related to hair loss).

As for the thyroid, it is vital for hair growth - it doesn't mean someone CAN fix their thyroid as that is a very complicated matter
indeed.

I know this gets said a lot, but I'm always brought back to it...

I find it really strange how mpb seems to affect the galea area only.
and why the sides/back stay healthy.

I agree with environment/lifestyle AND hereditary...
but not the idea that genes means there's nothing you
can do.

and again, the people talking about hair loss... there's different
camps measuring success

those after regrowth (what quantity?)
those looking to maintain or reduce (hard to measure)
those after a miracle (only a transplant at the moment could provide)

Like AS said, the water is very muddy.

Look on the bright side, you attempt to do this and have faith/courage
in the natural route, and you will hopefully benefit in much bigger ways.

Guys, the protocol the person with success uses is very similar with those who treat pyroluria that is depletion of b6, zinc, manganese and a whole lot of minerals along with it. It's a condition of immune system being offline greatly. Replacing the needed material takes time. It's where also metal toxicity is probably addressed at the same time as up regulated pathways are into the glutatione and taurine production directions. Me being one of the sufferers of HPU benefited from it as well. From the hair perspective, i've stopped the shed completely. From overall health, i have still some work to do. Am guilty of gut issues and wheat still means going in the opposite direction health and hair wise. I do a lot of other electrical related things that i think have their roles. If i am strict, i feel very much in control. Being lazy and to old to this shit (been here for years) is what i believe is keeping me from progress, but i will give it a try with increasing the doses as there is some thickening going on on my sides lately and a few vellus hair got some courage. It would be shame not to support them better. Was biotin a missing factor with doses to small to notice - i have never supplement it, but studied it quite a bit?

Agree with how your seeing it, egodust.

I dont think this can be universal protocol as not every body needs the same nutrients. However there are plenty ways to deal with yeast toxins, b6+sulfur+biotin+ molybdenum+zinc being one of them.

For the thyroid. I don't think fix it is a proper term. Thyroid can be improved after working on it for a long time, while giving the body what it needs in sufficient amounts. It might or might not be just nutrients and supplements related though. I don't think one can have healthy thyroid while having mess all over the body, looking from health indicators. Thus health of thyroid is more like one of several indicators of over all health, that is more of a journey than a quick fix.  

I am more and more convinced we are not as chemical beings as being addressed on the boards. Sun, sweating, gravity interaction, social activity, moving forward with life, grounding, healthy future expectations (stress) are hard to be evaluated in a chemical basis. By focusing on fixing the thyroid online, many of those don't get the opportunity to affect your life.

Pole:
1. How many of you have been in front of computer for more than 5 hours today?
2. What's your EMF exposure to artificial fields, including phone and WIFI?
3. What your inner - circadian rhythms are like? (good/bad)

Live forever wrote:
I find it really strange how mpb seems to affect the galea area only.
and why the sides/back stay healthy.

The top of the head has the least blood supply:



the body has to be generally healthy to pump blood there, the whole capillaries network has to be healthy,
pumped, a special kind of inflammation involving the immune system has to occur, this creates sheer
stress and 'raises the roof' of the whole area.

then the area is in good blood supply, growth factors allow the dermal papilla to create a connection with
the hair follicle



lymph drainage in the area is also not so great, DHT will increase lymph pressure/drainage
but that will create skull tightness and vasoconstriction near by to compensate for the lack of sheer
stress.

egodust wrote:

Live forever wrote:
I find it really strange how mpb seems to affect the galea area only.
and why the sides/back stay healthy.

lymph drainage in the area is also not so great, DHT will increase lymph pressure/drainage
but that will create skull tightness and vasoconstriction near by to compensate for the lack of sheer
stress.

Hmm.. Are you saying DHT causes skull tightness ? If that is the case it rules out DT and I don't want to believe that

JamesDean wrote:
Hmm.. Are you saying DHT causes skull tightness ? If that is the case it rules out DT and I don't want to believe that

No, it makes your lymph work harder, that pressure pulls on your skull in a similar way to sheer stress

Egodust,

No worries, man. Its the multitude of perspectives which I think brings value to this place. And I do see your point. In this gray area where we aren't fully aware, at least biochemically/physiologically, of the most basic dysfunction that is causing hair loss, we're left with only the ability to track correlations between various phenomena and their effects on hair growth. In the CAM paradigm of healing, targeting these upstream things is all we can do. But I think there tends to be some overlap here between what we'd consider to have effects on hair growth, and those processes which are directly involved in the pathology of the MPB condition. In some sense its mostly academic if we're holding it against what we're able to do practically and naturally, but I still think its valuable to be able to distinguish what's in our frame. I hear it said quite often that these endocrine factors like thyroid are essential for hair growth, or the liver function, or gut health, so on and so forth. Its said so much that I think it tends to develop in people this idea that some combination of dysfunction in any of these systems IS what's causing MPB. I don't believe that is the case at all, rather that these systems can cross-talk with an already established (but as of yet unknown) process that is distinctly MPB.

To me, optimizing the function of the body as an integrated system is a buckshot approach at maximizing our capacity for hair growth, but is it targeting the specific mechanism that is MPB? Not in my opinion. Until the condition is understood more concretely and we develop the technology to intervene, I don't think MPB is disappearing. Perhaps in some cases it can be slowed to a crawl.

Even if we found irrefutable evidence that the problem is related to blood flow, that still isn't a complete picture. There are plenty of men without MPB who suffer from heart disease and have all kinds of classical markers for circulatory problems. Our understanding of MPB has to also include an explanation for why it effects only certain men, and only in the pattern it does. At some level this does become a molecular genetic discipline, insofar as the explanation is likely to be apparently highly conserved polymorphisms, and this also limits the scope of what we're able to do with our current alternative technologies. What I think is valuable is perspective. Understanding what is realistic and exactly what the scope of what you're trying to accomplish is, is needed for people to not waste a lot of time and money throwing every supplement in the book at themselves.

Even if the man in the OP is having success, which is still dubious, he is still using an anti-androgen, which does not support the evidence that any one targeted thyroid therapy or liver therapy or blood flow therapy is the limiting factor. Its suggesting there is still androgen-mediated nuclear signalling involved. I guess I just don't like someone throwing the kitchen sink at themselves, reporting success, and then telling every person who's reading they need to get on the whole regimen. Its irresponsible, and prone to hazard, especially recommending the doses he is. And then proceeding to talk on each ingredient in the regimen as if he knows exactly why its helping his hair...I don't know. Its just not my gig. But I stand to be proven wrong.

It could be he has achieved some kind of synergy with his regimen, combining the anti-androgen with other anti-inflammatory things and an allergen-free diet and that these things are combining to promote better hair growth. It is possible. And I guess at the end of the day, it all comes back to the fact there are those of us who will stand back and wait and those of us who will see this and jump right in.

If I could sum up my feelings on the subject, in light of the relative darkness everyone is still in about the creature that is MPB, anybody recommending ANYTHING as a cure for MPB must have one of two things to support them:
    (1) a cohesive theory on hairloss and why the regimen is helping with a justification for each item included
or (2) ample and convincing evidence it is doing what you say it does (either for you or for others)

Almost every thing I've ever seen put forward falls in between these cracks somewhere.

Those here trying this, are you also taking the spiro and keto? Would be interesting to see the effects without those two.

AS54 wrote:
Even if the man in the OP is having success, which is still dubious, he is still using an anti-androgen, which does not support the evidence that any one targeted thyroid therapy or liver therapy or blood flow therapy is the limiting factor. Its suggesting there is still androgen-mediated nuclear signalling involved. I guess I just don't like someone throwing the kitchen sink at themselves, reporting success, and then telling every person who's reading they need to get on the whole regimen. Its irresponsible, and prone to hazard, especially recommending the doses he is. And then proceeding to talk on each ingredient in the regimen as if he knows exactly why its helping his hair...I don't know. Its just not my gig. But I stand to be proven wrong.

I agree with your points but MBP will never be studied to such a large extent because the 'disease' process is largely
cosmetic and associated with aging and genetics - the only main problematic symptom is burning/itching/dandruff that
is associated with it and so in the scope of western medicine it is largely a non issue.

When we bring in the money factor (i.e. drugs) we see two things that are targeted:

1) hormones
2) blood flow

So already we have two massive fields of study that are highly complex and unique because of genetic factors,
but then from hormones we get:

3) immune system

as the immune system is shaped by current hormone levels (TNF-a, DKK-1, etc) and those are implicated by:

4) minerals

and blood flow is linked with mineral status and arterial health as well as capillaries, so from the seemly random
targets for MBP with well structured double blind trials for the treatment or management of MBP we can already
see so many complex sub branches

and of these other factors we have:

5) diet

you are what you eat and without the right levels of whatever is required for the body in the current state of
health you get:

6) metabolism

So study of this problem would involve endocrinology, immunology, nutrition, genetics, etc ... these fields are all
highly complex - the profit for drug companies from all this would be minor

there would be no one drug that could do it all, there might be several drugs that could do it, and from this we have
broscience

is broscience good enough? of course not, do we hope for a merge of all these different fields for certain disease
processes? of course.

And that is why I say to you that what you hope for will never come to pass, all we can do is find the science
and be sensible and reasonable with ourselves!

Could be, could be. I can't argue that point. I believe that with time, the physiology will come to be understood, but its obviously - as you hinted at - delving deeply into a very integrated set of communications which are not fully understood. It will likely be a long time before a complete understanding is had. Truthfully, we'll probably see a drug solution arrive faster than we'll have a complete understanding. We'll be treating the problem before we even understand it, which is why I can't fully argue your point. Most people dealing with the problem are looking for solutions at the same time as we're trying to understand it, because frankly nobody wants to wait. So the only practical thing is really to trial these kinds of things.

Where I personally draw the line though, like I mentioned, is the recommendations have to be based on (A) a cohesive theory on hairloss based on what we do know and/or (B) very convincing shows of efficacy. Again, most things fail to achieve either one by themselves.

In the case of the regimen we're talking about in this thread, its obvious to me that there isn't a cohesive theory on hair loss. We're being presented with a series of products he's tried. Its of the format "Do this, this works". So that format demands (B), which is convincing evidence its doing what it is supposed to be doing. I personally don't see that. I'm not trying to knock anyone who does. We are all coming at it from a different experience and perspective. Again, I'm one of those people who is going to wait and see what happens. I'm not the type to just jump on board right away, and more power to those people who are. I'll be extremely interested to see if people are having progress with this. And I value the people that do jump in headfirst because they have a constitution I don't, and they do the experimentation for all of our benefit.

That said, there is a point where that kind of tendency - to freely experiment - becomes wasteful or hazardous when there isn't perspective. That's where I'm strongly of the belief that people shouldn't be given improper information to base their decisions on, which circles me right back to original points about buckshot strategies w/ 40 different supps for thyroid, liver, gut, immunity, metabolism, adrenals, integument, so on so forth. I think its the responsibility for those of us who have been doing research, and coming from that base of operations, to try our best to deflate grandiose bullshit that will have people thinking if they take supps A-Z they'll regrow their hair. Thats particularly why I enjoy this forum, you tend to get a nice mix of both camps...those who approach it with a "let's try this and see what happens" perspective and people who are trying to sort of temper that fire w/ physiological background information. The product of these two types getting together is greater than the sum of the parts, which tends to be more informed experimentation rather than reckless abandon. But it also inevitably leads to tensions/resentments here and there because the radically hopeful always collide head on with the skeptical pessimists.

Guys, I popped 4 or 5 Niacinamide 500mg and it felt like a natural xanax or valium....pretty bad ass and the effect lasted almost my entire day.

This stuff is gold for anyone looking to get over an addiction, overcome anxiety/depression or just improve their mental state.

Pretty much have this regimen on hand + plant antioxidants.

@BeeBrox

1) I spend over 5 hours in front of a pc
2) I sleep with wi fi on a lot of times (roommates)
3) My circadian rhythm has no rhythm =)

NYJets wrote:Guys, I popped 4 or 5 Niacinamide 500mg and it felt like a natural xanax or valium....pretty bad ass and the effect lasted almost my entire day.

This stuff is gold for anyone looking to get over an addiction, overcome anxiety/depression or just improve their mental state.

Pretty much have this regimen on hand + plant antioxidants.

@BeeBrox

1) I spend over 5 hours in front of a pc
2) I sleep with wi fi on a lot of times (roommates)
3) My circadian rhythm has no rhythm =)  

Nice to hear it Jets. I like niacin(amide) also. You wish to be aware of other b's that will be depleted. Somehow i find myself better putting myself under influence of 8hz...

Typical student life, i suppose. I had a few months ago testing with fusses closed over night. I benefited. Maybe something to consider.

I got nausea and stomach pain increasing the EVCO last night. I only had one or two TBSPs but I had it alone so I'm wondering if it's the oil (hexane used to extract?) or if it's some sort of die off? What do you guys think?

NYJets wrote:I got nausea and stomach pain increasing the EVCO last night. I only had one or two TBSPs but I had it alone so I'm wondering if it's the oil (hexane used to extract?) or if it's some sort of die off? What do you guys think?

Niacinamide is marvelous stuff. However, some can feel nauseous at doses above 250 mg (closer to 500 mg). So best to opt for small doses over time.

There are some high-dose sustained forms, however I'm not sure how they play out.