Supposed Regrowth Protocol

SonofOdin wrote:80/20 ground beef is simply beef that is 80% lean, 20% fat. Sometimes you can find fattier beef than this, but probably just stick to this ratio so you can get adequate protein too. The good thing is this is way cheaper than most other variations of beef.

Also I wanted to share something that is very applicable to anyone into bodybuilding, or just people who tend to binge eat. I'm on a bulking phase, and the increase in food is bringing some of my itching back which I haven't felt in quite awhile. I'm tweaking my supps to see if I can find a sweet spot where I can bulk, and maintain my hair but the ideal for this protocol really seems to be eating barely any carbs, lots of fat, moderate protein and low calories overall.

My spiro has arrived though so perhaps that'll be enough to offset the negative effects of too much food.

Here is the thread elmo - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160444941&highlight=ecklonia+cava

Thanks man. Interesting what you're saying about diet. I'm annoyed because I have lost 20 pounds since quitting wheat and dairy, and being skinny already this is a real pain in the ass so I wanted to find a way to put the weight back on - a substitute for my daily cheese, butter & wheat that I used to eat. You say the ideal for this protocol is lots of fat - how are you getting your daily fat content? I mean people say things like eat meat cuts with good amounts of fat, but that doesn't come anywhere close to the fat I was getting off cheese and butter, since I quit them and wheat, the weight has just dropped off me. So all these women that act like losing weight is some kind of mystery, some unsolvable enigma - no, sorry it's not - its an absolute piece-a piss. But that's the weight-loss industry for you - turn it into a riddle so you can sell people slimming pills and weight watcher programmes.

Whatever... sidetracked...  

Also interesting is in the protocol he says to take Chromium because it counteracts the insulin rush after eating. I noticed for about a year or two before my hair started falling out that quite a lot of times after eating I would get a pounding heart beat, sometimes intensely so in the jugular region.

Well don't forget, a part of the protocol is taking in 3-6 tbsp of coconut oil each day. This is really tough to start off with and I almost quit the protocol because the fat intake was just too much for my stomach. But, over time I adapted and can handle large amounts of fat just fine. Of course, don't take it all at once, and if its hot, put your coconut oil in the refrigerator a little if swallowing liquid coconut oil bothers you like it did me.

I also eat a good amount of sausage, and then there is also the eggs which I wish I could eat... all this adds up to be quite a bit. I also snack on pumpkin seeds and occasionally almonds.

Even with all this fat though, I just can't keep the pounds on. And lol don't get me started it makes me rage that many women expect me to listen to their weight loss woes and how hard it is living up to beauty standards... Meanwhile I have to intentionally overeat, then cut, then repeat the process all while doing a complicated as heck protocol just so I have hair and that's not even accounting for the countless hours at the gym working my ass off and even if I do manage to look good I still can't compete with a 4/10 woman who claims to be 'curvy' and eats mcdonalds on the daily. Smh...

Ahem anyway, sorry for that. To bulk what I am doing is adding in sweet potatoes, and a fair amount of them too. I was also told in PM by Taeian that white rice is an ideal bulking food:

"Eat white rice. It seems completly safe reproted by dr jean siegnalet n look at asian culuture amazing hair. Only white rice it apptars to have zero effect on digestive track.

Thats all u need to do to bulk add white rice. Dont beleive u can bulk on that? Google sumo wrestler diets. All they eat is chicken fish vegtablrs and up to ten cups white rice a day. If they can get massivly fat sleeping n eating white rice then u cna get big lol." - Taeian

What I'm wondering is if white rice is actually even safer for the hair than sweet potatoes, because the carbs do seem to be affecting me negatively. Interesting you mention the Chromium, I do recall him saying to keep it high during bulking so I've gone back to 1000mcg a day. I actually experienced something similar, I'd get hyper phases directly after eating.

Oh and before I forget, I've recently discovered lamb to be a nice fatty source of protein and catfish seems decent too, if you're getting sick of salmon, or salmons getting too pricey. This diets tough so I highly recommend doing some form of meal prep, so whenever you cook, cook large batches so you can eat then, and then store some more in a container for later. This post is turning out to be pretty long so I'll just stop here xD

SonofOdin wrote:Well don't forget, a part of the protocol is taking in 3-6 tbsp of coconut oil each day. This is really tough to start off with and I almost quit the protocol because the fat intake was just too much for my stomach. But, over time I adapted and can handle large amounts of fat just fine. Of course, don't take it all at once, and if its hot, put your coconut oil in the refrigerator a little if swallowing liquid coconut oil bothers you like it did me.

I also eat a good amount of sausage, and then there is also the eggs which I wish I could eat... all this adds up to be quite a bit. I also snack on pumpkin seeds and occasionally almonds.

Even with all this fat though, I just can't keep the pounds on. And lol don't get me started it makes me rage that many women expect me to listen to their weight loss woes and how hard it is living up to beauty standards... Meanwhile I have to intentionally overeat, then cut, then repeat the process all while doing a complicated as heck protocol just so I have hair and that's not even accounting for the countless hours at the gym working my ass off and even if I do manage to look good I still can't compete with a 4/10 woman who claims to be 'curvy' and eats mcdonalds on the daily. Smh...

Ahem anyway, sorry for that. To bulk what I am doing is adding in sweet potatoes, and a fair amount of them too. I was also told in PM by Taeian that white rice is an ideal bulking food:

"Eat white rice. It seems completly safe reproted by dr jean siegnalet n look at asian culuture amazing hair. Only white rice it apptars to have zero effect on digestive track.

Thats all u need to do to bulk add white rice. Dont beleive u can bulk on that? Google sumo wrestler diets. All they eat is chicken fish vegtablrs and up to ten cups white rice a day. If they can get massivly fat sleeping n eating white rice then u cna get big lol." - Taeian

What I'm wondering is if white rice is actually even safer for the hair than sweet potatoes, because the carbs do seem to be affecting me negatively. Interesting you mention the Chromium, I do recall him saying to keep it high during bulking so I've gone back to 1000mcg a day. I actually experienced something similar, I'd get hyper phases directly after eating.

Oh and before I forget, I've recently discovered lamb to be a nice fatty source of protein and catfish seems decent too, if you're getting sick of salmon, or salmons getting too pricey. This diets tough so I highly recommend doing some form of meal prep, so whenever you cook, cook large batches so you can eat then, and then store some more in a container for later. This post is turning out to be pretty long so I'll just stop here xD

Thanks for all the info. White rice huh? Sumo vibes  

I'll check out catfish. I can get fresh mackerel - £1 per fish but its hit and miss because it comes from a local fisherman and sometimes they're in the local shop and sometimes not. But yeah, Salmon is very expensive - £3.15 per fillet.

Is there a page where Taeian lays out a diet outline?

Are there several guys who have stopped their hair loss with his regimen?

And you are actually managing to get regrowth at the temples and hairline? And do you do any manuals or is it purely Taeian's regimen that has given the results?

Sorry to ask so much, just interested in the protocol.

Cheers

No it's completely fine I'm happy to answer questions. I'm actually hoping more people jump on board so that we can all be in on this together and help figure out what's optimal and such. I'm still in a learning period myself, but today Taeian dropped by and posted a wealth of knowledge when it comes to diet. I really think the info posted in that post is going to take my hair to the next level. I've been frying so much meat, unknowingly probably adding to my inflammation, I honestly didn't even know I could just steam all my meat.

But, what I think is really key from that post(not going to quote it all) is this: "Oh another pure raw honey i never mentioned for those with more digestive issues is another good one.....raw honey will helo digest carb for the rice eaters is why important n feeds good bacteria n help candida."

Since we're both trying to put on weight and we're obviously gonna need carbs to do it, raw honey is probably a good investment.

Anyway there are several people who claim to have stopped their loss,  and the maker of the thread went from NW1.5 to NW1 using it but this is a new protocol and not a lot of people have been willing to go all out on a protocol set forth by a random guy on a bodybuilding forum. Taeian went from what looked like a NW3 to NW1.5 but it took him a long time. As for myself, I was getting growth until my bulking phase began... I have very aggressive mpb and this is the reason I've yet to post any progress pictures... because the progress I have made is so small, but to put things into perspective, I went from NW1.5 to NW3 in 7-8 months so to at the very least remain at baseline for 3 months is a victory....others may not see it that way though.

I just looked up Mackerel and I think you're definitely on the right track with that. It's very fatty and contains plenty of the types of fats we're looking for. Local makes it even better. I may have to see if I can hunt down a source near me too.

Hi, thanks for your reply, didn't get back to you because I was reading the thread over at bodybuilding.com, still only on Page 23.

Taeian seems to be saying that its necessary to go low carb on this protocol so maybe me eating a lot of rice (to bulk up) is a bad thing? Plus rice will most likely spike the blood sugar and that's bad for the whole insulin resistance angle isnt it? But exactly how low is "low carb" I mean does it amount to one sweet potato a day? The whole diet thing is very confusing when you have hair loss, plus as I say, I've lost weight so I wanted to find some way of putting the weight back on, but if he's saying high carbs are not good, then maybe I'm always destined to be a skinny wretch.  

Anyway mate, would appreciate any advice you can give.

How do you split your pill intake up across the day? Did you find that this regimen thickened up existing hair?

Thanks a lot.

Yeah that threads become a tome of knowledge by now; its going to take you a lot of time to go through all of that. Taeian advises that we keep our carbs under 100g, and at 50g minimum I believe. Obviously I've begun going way over this amount with all the sweet potatoes I am eating and believe me, my hair could be better. I'm undoing a lot of the progress I've made but, what can I do? As far as I know we have a decision to make, be a skinny twig with luscious locks of hair or lose our hair and hope we bulk up to Jason Statham status  

I'm far from giving up though. I've just purchased some raw honey and I'm drizzling that over my sweet potatoes to aid in their digestion and also trying my best to drink acv and cayenne pepper prior to any meal. My advice is during your blasting period, where you take the supps at high does, stay very low carb. Two, three months later, then you can make the decision for yourself whether it's time to bulk.

If you're already extremely skinny, then maybe bulk beforehand, and start using the supps once you stop bulking and then go on a cut while you blast.

Hair thickness was the first positive sign I noticed, this occurred even before my itching stopped. Growth came way later. I'll pm you my full dosing schedule.

Edit: If your hair loss is an emergency like mine was(very rapid miniaturization) then skip the bulk and get things stabilized asap.

Thanks for the advice, a lot to think about.

Have the excess carbs started you shedding again?

Maybe the only way to put on weight is to take 1.1g -1.5g of protein per kilo of bodyweight and work out? But I kind of just wanted to regain my natural fat. If you think about it, all the fat I previously had was from butter and cheese, but I don't know how to get that back without starting on those foods again which I don't want to do because I gather hair loss sufferers should avoid dairy.

How necessary is the emu oil on this regimen do you think?

Cheers

Yes, the excess carbs is having an effect... but my shedding is nowhere near as bad as prior to the protocol. I did end up acquiring the dreaded mpb itch too but upping my Chromium intake seemed to rid myself of it.

Well, working out would require you to intake even more calories as lifting weights burns a ton of calories. However, the health benefits are too good to pass up in my opinion... but if gaining your weight back is priority then don't.

Here is some math that might be of help:

Every gram of carbs is 4 calories. 4X100 = 400 calories. Let's say we intake 150g of protein, so another 600 calories there. Now, every gram of fat is 9 calories. Eat 150g of fat and thats 1,350 calories so a diet with these macros is 2,350 calories. For a lot of sedentary people, that's enough to maintain and slowly increase in weight. For people like me I need over 3,000. I'm basically after it all. An athletic body, with a full head of hair. If you can stand having only one of the two, I think things will be easier is my theory.

As for emu oil, I've tried every single topical recommended for the regimen... Emu oil was the first I used, and it's an interesting oil. It is a growth stimulant, it's just the hairs have trouble surviving after sprouting. I used this to massage a scar elsewhere on my body in an area that normally does not grow hair and the scar ended up having hair growing from it(not trying to gross you out) so to me that is some solid evidence that this may actually work. It's not a miracle worker, nor is it very powerful.

These are the topicals I use or used:
Emu Oil - Explained above.
ACV - No idea if this works but I rinse my hair in it nightly and let it dry with it still in.
Monistat - I feel this protects the hair follicles, but I don't think it's as powerful as Niz
Nizoral - This topical is king, but using it over and over again nightly will quickly cause skin irritation.
S5 Cream - Only a few days experience on this one. It has a lot of potential, and may end up being the most powerful but, it's also the one people are understandably most reluctant to use.
Boron+Niacinamide - Made my skin very dry and I wasn't sure if it was doing anything so I stopped this one. Might of been a mistake, not sure.

My advice is do the ACV rinse(buy the cheap stuff for this, drink braggs internally) and then choose two other topicals and stick with those only while you do the protocol. If you see results, then you can decide for yourself whether you want to go more advanced.

Why are you eating more carbs? Just up your fat. MORE RAW EGGS! and Steak! A big steak is easily 1000-1200 calories, have that for dinner every few days, bacon for breakfast! more calories and fat. Idunno man I don't think you need more carbs if you eat right.

I'm gaining muscle way better than I ever did before. No puffy muscles either. It sounds bad/not PC but my body is starting to remind me of a black persons. Lean and muscular.

I used to do the rice, white brown, potatoes etc.. etc.... tried them all and I would "bulk" but right now I don't need to get puffy to get bigger and my muscles are harder now for sure.

Also dairy isn't too bad if you have it away form other foods and aren't lactose intolerant, chase it with baking soda water a 1/2 hour after too. I usually drink a big glass in the evening, grassfed, non homogenized. I make sure to have my dinner fairly early then drink it at night so nothing will chase it but the baking soda I take a bit before bed.

I would use braggs on the head too at night. Stuff is cheap here though. 8 bux per litre or so. I just put it in a spray bottle though so it last a pretty long time.

Hey Duke whats the thought behind having your dairy alone?

Body breaks it down differently (can curdle it) and it can block absorption of other minerals. I admittedly haven't looked into it much myself, just going off what I was told verbatim but it seems to work for me so I'm sticking with it.

What I was told was something to the effect of milk being broken down in late stage digestion in the duodenum and that sodium bicarbonate is produced by the body to break it down a that point anyway. Could be BS for all I know. Would be curious if anyone wants to put the time in to see what they find. Like I said though it seems to work well with my body whatever it is it is doing.

Duketronix wrote:Body breaks it down differently (can curdle it) and it can block absorption of other minerals.  I admittedly haven't looked into it much myself, just going off what I was told verbatim but it seems to work for me so I'm sticking with it.

What I was told was something to the effect of milk being broken down in late stage digestion in the duodenum and that sodium bicarbonate is produced by the body to break it down a that point anyway.  Could be BS for all I know. Would be curious if anyone wants to put the time in to see what they find.  Like I said though it seems to work well with my body whatever it is it is doing.

Do you still eat cheese and butter?

Not really. My main goal is to keep the dairy isolated if I'm going to eat it, so putting butter and cheese on things doesn't really work with that. I guess I could eat cheese instead of milk at night but I find it makes me more full and is harder to quickly ingest. For mass calories and fat downing milk is just easiest, plus it is cheaper and I can get better quality (grassfed) stuff.

I'm sure I get butter in food I don't cook from time to time though. Not overly worried about it though.

I also add some dark organic cacao and cinnamon to my milk blend it up and toss a scoop of coconut oil in too.

Gotcha. What about raw eggs? Probably good to do, but could get quite expensive.

Not too bad here in Vancouver. Large free run organic vegetarian fed eggs are about $6-$7 for a dozen. I'll just have anywhere from 5-10 for breakfast so that's only like a $5 meal. I also have some veg with it, salad or whatever and bacon when I have it. Having bacon means less eggs usually. I eat like a caveman usually though. I'll just grab a handful of organic baby greens at eat it like it was chips. Doesn't bother me. Girlfriend thinks its gross though! It's funny because I can cook and was a chef running restaurants for over a decade but I don't like spending time on that anymore.

I don't blend the eggs either, just crack them one at a time into a teacup and down them. I get a really high surge of energy after eating them too that lasts a pretty long time.

Apparently if they aren't free range there is a chance of salmonella and such too so be careful.

Yeah, sounds good. And I imagine they wouldn't impact negatively on hair loss as they have a lot of beneficial nutrients?

unless you have a sensitivity to them they are simply amazing food. Tons of good things for hair in them.

Yeah, thanks.

So, I mentioned just a day or two ago that during my bulking phase I've lost some of the ground I made. Well, tonight the itch came back again, even with the high chromium intake and well, my hairline is wiped out. I was actually feeling content with my hair. The protocol seemed to be protecting my follicles and my hair even seemed thicker but shit you guys... I looked in the mirror and I'm crushed. I've realized there are some men destined to lose their hair no matter how determined they may be. It's been roughly 8-9 months since this living nightmare has become reality, and I still at times find it hard to come to terms that what I see in the mirror is in fact me, and that this really is real life... I am heading to a NW4, at age 23.

Here is my journey:

Day 30
https://2img.net/h/oi57.tinypic.com/2vbv39h.jpg
This was the first ray of hope in my life since mpb struck. My hairline was worse than this, it had thickened up a bit and this was the first pic I took, realizing I wanted to chronicle this all for future memories.

Day 40
https://2img.net/h/oi61.tinypic.com/33jlh1t.jpg
Didn't want to take another picture so soon but my hair was really filling in where you could no longer see inbetween it in the frontal region much anymore.

Day 51
https://2img.net/h/oi60.tinypic.com/2napts4.jpg
Maintained what I had since day 40, maybe thickened up a little bit here too, hard to say. Overall feeling good, and the protocol has now become fully routine

Day62
https://2img.net/h/oi59.tinypic.com/2n209xs.jpg
Bad pic here, too close up. Well, most of these are bad pics but I could never get the lighting right. Nevertheless, not much has changed since day 51

Day80?
https://2img.net/h/oi57.tinypic.com/hs5jqg.jpg
Here is where I started to think huh, maybe I'm not gaining ground anymore? This is also when I quit liver powder because it was giving me a strange spacey feeling, almost like I wanted to faint. I truly think liver powder, whatever was in it, was key, but with the bad reaction I couldn't continue. B vitamins alone caused the same feeling so for whatever reason, b vitamins became a bad thing for me.

Present Day(90 days into protocol)
https://2img.net/h/oi60.tinypic.com/23w45rq.jpg
This picture shows the true extent of how aggressive my hairloss really is.

There it is. I've crossed the point of no return. There is no natural regimen powerful enough to counter this sort of hairloss. Do I believe in this protocol? Yes, so many have been impacted positively, and for a moment I thought I'd even have a shot at going up to a NW2 if given enough time. What will I do now? Well, I told myself this would be my final stand. If I had the money, I'd try the IH regimen, or maybe even combine the two. The thing is, I'm almost 24 and all I've been able to get is a part time min wage job. I'm going back to school, hoping to get a job in accounting, and then find a nice mmo and live out my life in that virtual world. This is a heavy post, and I'm sorry, I'm just in a dark place at the moment and maybe my progress story will be of use to some. Whatever you do, do not let this failure keep you from the protocol. It works and if I hadn't been on it i'd be far worse than I am now... it stopped the itch for a long time, but I think with age my mpb ramped up in intensity until nothing could stop the inflammation. This is getting too long, so I'll leave my post with this. Good luck to you all, I truly mean it. I didn't mean to lead anyone on, this loss in the day 90 pic came upon me suddenly. In day 80 I thought I was going through a shedding phase, leading to more growth but now I know the truth. I was just way too positive.

Edit: Read my last post, felt even worse. Said I was 'far from giving up' ugh... I had no idea this was coming. I've spent a little time to myself, the panic is lessened and I'm going to use up my remaining reserves of supplements and stick to the protocol until I've exhausted all of the resources I currently have on hand.

I'm not going to lie I've also read that topic and a few others such as the one on this board from danthethinningman. (I have learned alot more from dan's topic then from this one). You could say I've been a lurker, though I made a few posts about my own situation if anyone cares to read that. Many people place no critical notes to Taian's regimen.

What you need to figure out as many people have said before is what kind of oxidizer you are. I know this is often seen as the Crauxy metabolic typing diet etc and it probably is. I don't know the full situation cause frankly who does? But honestly just spillng my thoughts here. The thing is this is often related to adrenal disorders (meaning to high or low cortisol). My beef with this regime from this topic is that it seems to push everyone further in to the slow oxidization camp, hence the need for no carbs as such (bare his latest update about white rice being ok). If your adrenals are already stressed or not functioning properly for whatever reason then you do not have enough ''soldiers to defend the wall''. Especially for the ones working out alot this means that your body will be more inclined to use Gluconeogenesis to provide the much needed glucose. Sonofodin it might be that following this diet on top of your stressful job is pushing yourself over the edge. If you're burning your own protein the whole time or more often then not your hair and nails are of the least importance to your body.

Personally speaking I believe the relationship with histamine etc should not be overlooked enough topics about undermethylation high histamine types etc. Alot of the supplements he mentioned are helpful in the department such as zinc being a mast cell stabilizer or (Quercitin not in his regime but enough mentioned here on IH). I'm still figuring this out myself and it's driving me nuts sometimes but for instance, I've always suffered from a congested/stuffy nose and a few other symptoms which you can read about in my old posts if anyone cares. But since watching histamine and mast cells I lately have more periods where I can happily breath through each nose, I suffer less from scalp inflammation then I used to. But since I also workout alot this adds like people mentioned in this thread another layer of complexity. Hence I can relate to the the Jason Statham anecdote that someone mentioned earlier in this thread.


PS: Just my thoughts and theory's if anyone cares for a helpful discussion I'm all ears, but as I say, it's always more complicated then one makes it out to be especially if we're talking about individuals.

Glad you came out of lurker status Brodje, what you just posted is very interesting as I also have a constant congested/stuffy nose just like you. And, I wouldn't say its my job that is overly stressful and more that working out is my passion and I'm probably in the gym 8 hours a week at least. I'll admit a lot of what you said went over my head though; it's clearly an angle I haven't researched yet. Where is a good place for me to start on learning of one kind of oxidizer I am, histamines and mast cells in their relationship to hair? What is your protocol and how is your hair faring currently?

It also may relate to your recovery time. I used to work out 5-6 days a week and struggle to gain. Now I just do 3 days a week with some cardio on off days (squash) and I find I'm gaining better (more and better quality muscle). Working out everyday is not always best.

You aren't taking anything for your workouts are you SonofOdin? Like whey, mass gainers, creatine etc.. etc..?? Those things absolutely RAPE your hair for a lot of people. Again, WTF are you doing eating the carbs? STOP IF IT MAKES YOU WORSE! Don't be so insecure that you make stupid choices to rush building muscle. Take your time and do it right.

BRodje- Fully agree with you. I obviously enjoyed this regimen (have cut doses now) since it has helped me out but agree we all need to listen to our bodies and not jsut blindly follow others. For me I'd already tried most of these things with some improvement so stacking them wasn't that big a leap in terms of risk/knowledge.

SonofOdin wrote:Glad you came out of lurker status Brodje, what you just posted is very interesting as I also have a constant congested/stuffy nose just like you. And, I wouldn't say its my job that is overly stressful and more that working out is my passion and I'm probably in the gym 8 hours a week at least. I'll admit a lot of what you said went over my head though; it's clearly an angle I haven't researched yet. Where is a good place for me to start on learning of one kind of oxidizer I am, histamines and mast cells in their relationship to hair? What is your protocol and how is your hair faring currently?

Stuffy nose, me too.

Duketronix wrote:It also may relate to your recovery time.  I used to work out 5-6 days a week and struggle to gain.  Now I just do 3 days a week with some cardio on off days (squash) and I find I'm gaining better (more and better quality muscle).  Working out everyday is not always best.

You aren't taking anything for your workouts are you SonofOdin?  Like whey, mass gainers, creatine etc.. etc..??  Those things absolutely RAPE your hair for a lot of people.  Again, WTF are you doing eating the carbs?  STOP IF IT MAKES YOU WORSE!  Don't be so insecure that you make stupid choices to rush building muscle.  Take your time and do it right.

BRodje- Fully agree with you.  I obviously enjoyed this regimen (have cut doses now) since it has helped me out but agree we all need to listen to our bodies and not jsut blindly follow others.  For me I'd already tried most of these things with some improvement so stacking them wasn't that big a leap in terms of risk/knowledge.

Duketronix, did you find this protocol stopped your hair falling out, and that was a good starting point for DT? Or did it not happen in that order?