Supposed Regrowth Protocol

I was doing manuals long before DT (it was a lot like DT really but not for 20 mins/2 times a day) and had regrowth happening slowly.

This protocol just gave me a noticeable boost in growth plus feeling great/losing weight and gaining muscle, better dream recall, better libido etc..... I also reduced my shedding from this protocol. I wasn't shedding a TON before but I don't shed much at all now on most days.

I think no grains at all was a big part for me too.

BUT!!! I should also mention that in stopping my hairloss in years previous I was already doing almost all the things in this protocol at some point and found most of them helpful. Which as I mentioned is why I started doing this protocol since I already had almost everything. It was more a matter of a dosage experiment and doing it all at once.

Sorry one more thing... I also do not use spiro.

Thanks Duketronix. Is Spiro dodgy stuff?

What do you think of Nettle root extract, ever experimented with it?

I've heard there are issues with it going systemic. I just don't use it because I don't feel I need it. Also the Pharma route I feel like I've tried it and gotten past what it gave me for results in the first place.

As for Nettle I have taken it in the past but didn't really notice much from it. I do drink nettle tea though. It's just in a mix of stuff I use for my tea, pepermint, green tea, ginger, milk thistle, dandelion root if I recall correctly. I just mix it myself and have that at night if I want a hot drink instead of coffee. That or stock. I always make my own stocks from left over veggies, chicken carcasses/bones and herbs I have around like thyme, basil, sage etc.. and drink them fairly regularly. very good for you on many levels.

Cool, maybe I'll try that. That and bake some gluten free bread.  

While here goes my reply I was typing one already but I lost it:
My own hair situation hasn't changed alot since my last post. https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t9594-my-tale-long-read-with-bloodwork-and-background It aint worse but I wouldn't say it is better either. Would be happy if it stayed the same though. You could say that my hair situation has stabilized somewhat, but I have to take some pictures and compare them or ask someone else to know for sure. I do style it backwards as it is long so it might be somewhat deceiving. What has noticeably improved though, are my eyebrows they had been thinning, so I guess that would be seen as an improvement.  My hair texture has been a little off though more fine and more kinky, but that's something that I've had for ages. But in the context of my story it serves a purpose in relation to copper levels. I also like to think that in the last 2 years my hair has been turning darker.

Though I do have weird thin hair on side of my ears. I searched the web for this but it was hard to find anything related to this, except for of course this forum. Here, is a similar link to what I’ve experienced on the side of my scalp https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t8177-side-back-thinning?highlight=side fascinating stuff in my opinion and yet so annoying. Some people mention that being thyroid related, I guess I felt the same though my thyroid tabs were good in my last post. I didn’t start using any iodine or related supplements when I noticed that side thinning so it’s something that was already existing prior to this. It might subclinical thyroid related which can very well be the case, but I would like to think that in my case, the thyroid might be more of a symptom then a cause.

I did experiment a bit with all the intermediate fasting and before the ketonic diet, I have to say though it wasn’t the best of times my hair went worse. I felt cold all the time and would even train in sweaters, in spring and people’d ask me why and told them I was cutting, obv being cold. So I can relate big time do dannthehinngmans story which can be found here, https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t9975-good-news-diffuse-thinneres-regimen-for-diffuse-hairloss-that-i-know-will-work-for-the-majority .
He also said that going low-carb messed him up pretty badly. After reading his thread and asking some questions few times I started dosing high biotin, b2 and niacinamide. Like him, I also noticed my eyebrows getting better, I saw new hairs popping and I’ve felt I was on the right track.  At some point every improvement is something one cheers about. I also bought niacin at the time and tried it though it gave me a red rash. Since then this rollercoaster ride of me trying to find more about it and adding more supplements has started.

Apperently like dann mentioned going Ketonic for a long time,  will deplete your biotin levels. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24012088 Consumption of a low-carbohydrate and high-fat diet (the ketogenic diet) exaggerates biotin deficiency in mice.

Since then I’ve also read Taians’s regimen and I’ve tried to add a few things of his, to what I was already using since joining this forum and things that I’ve picked up along the way by lurking here. Now it is obvious that there is a wealth of information in that thread, but I believe that it doesn’t really apply instantly for everyone. Maybe I should revisit that diet with my current supplements and biotin though, but since I’m feeling better with what I’m doing now I will hold that off for now.

My current diet or a glimpse: 5 whole eggs, basmati rice, Kiwi, salmon, pea’s/broccoli, meat and veggies. 3-4 Whey isolate(only soy lectin no fillers), and Creatine Monohydrate.(Starting creating to help with methylation). No gluten as mentioned in my first post, I got dermatitis herpetiformis after eating gluten.  Though have to mention that this started when I had cut out gluten already. I didn’t avoid eating them at social gatherings though one time I did again and gotten the rash. Since then I’ve stopped eating it completely).

Current supplements: Zinc Pico 50-100mg, MSM, Quercitin, B6 p5p, Magensium Citrate(stopped causing me insomnia), chelated calcium, Selenium, Vitamin d3, k2-mk7, Cod liver oil, Taurine, Biotine 10.000mcg,, Swanson bioactive b-complex ALA and boron. Iodine which I’ve worked up to 50mg, but it did gave me a sore throat at times. Haven’t taking it for a few weeks now.
Though one of the problems I still have Is terrible insomnia, it toke me ages to cut out magnesium citrate cause I figured how could it be the magnesium? But it made my heart pound, it might be a detox reaction but still it’s getting significantly better since stopping it. I wasn’t tired during the day though, I was basically running at adrenaline do to the histamine. You think you need no sleep and are very energetic but this is  false.

My theory-crafting:
To test for high histamine levels you use vitamin b3 (the flushing kind so that would be niacin) and NOT niacinamide or inositol hexanicotinate. You should search google or this forum for the exact test, but I believe if one flushes at 50mg or less one can be considered high histamine. I believe CS said before that it’s a cheap and safe way to test for histamine levels. High histamine levels often also relate to being a fast-oxidizer. Personally speaking, when I take even a tiny bit I’m red all over my body, think sunburn times 10. As a side note, there has been a topic posted about premature ejaculation this is often also related to high histamine level. Thus, using antihistamines can often relieve this, and make it possible to last longer. In my case my histamine levels are so high at times that I only need my mind it’s crazy when you think about it.

Here are some symptoms related to high histamine, toke the first random link from google.:http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-11175/everything-you-need-to-know-about-histamine-intolerance.html

Common symptoms of histamine intolerance include:
• Headaches/migraines
• Difficulty falling asleep, easily arousal
• Hypertension
• Vertigo or dizziness
• Arrhythmia, or accelerated heart rate
• Difficulty regulating body temperature
• Anxiety
• Nausea, vomiting
• Abdominal cramps
• Flushing
• Nasal congestion, sneezing, difficulty breathing
• Abnormal menstrual cycle
• Hives
• Fatigue
• Tissue swelling

What Causes High Histamine Levels?
• Allergies (IgE reactions)
• Bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
• Leaky gut
• GI bleeding
• Fermented alcohol like wine, champagne, and beer
• Diamine Oxidase (DAO) deficiency
• Histamine-rich foods

Nasal congestion obviously being a big factor which I suffer from as a few more things. Now what I’ve come to learn and read that it aint as clear cut whether you fall in one category or the other. I could find low histamine symptons which often relate to me aswell. I guess one really needs to think outside the box for a bit, and many would probably believe this to be to far fetched. What happens when histamine is released though is that your body produces adrenal hormones to try and clear them up. Histamine is a vasodilator which will block your nose and lower your blood pressure. The lowest reading I’ve had myself was 88/42. Though the adrenal hormones will try to clear them out of your system, (Adrenaline will counter histamine) and Cortisol also has some part to play in all this. I’d say that in a prolonged excessive stress sate and repeating this cycle enough your body will no longer produce sufficient cortisol. There are some people who would say that during periods of very low cortisol your thyroid will also suffer as your body will try to slow itself down. So high cortisol aint good but I’d dare to say very low levels is worse. Thus me describing my thyroid as being a symptom.  Undermethylators often suffer from the lack of methyl groups, so providing them through the 3 different path ways can be important. Many people would tell you to avoid Folic acid or cyanocobalamin which will use up methyl groups in trying to convert them to their active form. I supplement both in the b-complex in their active state bit controversial perhaps but I'm trying this. One of the most costly process of where your body loses methyl groups is by making CREATINE. So thus I try to safe some by supplementing with creatine.

(Maybe CS or someone else could clarify this). But during Adrenaline heightened state you will burn through your glucose storage very fast. Afterwards when your glycogen storage are approaching low levels, your body will be start working in overdrive. It will try to provide the much needed glucose from Gluconeogenesis. It will breakdown muscle and fat to provide the glucose. Glucose will be dumped in the bloodstream at rapid pace. The body will produce insulin in reaction to this. So this way one can be walking around with constant elevated insulin levels.

Should we eat more protein or and fat to reduce oxidation or give us more glucose through the use of carbs? I’m choosing the latter at the moment. Obviously training 6 days out of 8 days, I need it to keep it up. Remember most protein are high in histidine, which is a precursor to histamine. So that’s why you often read that these people should eat less protein.
I found an interesting topic from the user called rockyjs (from prohealth forum) who wrote about an unorthodox method which involved more histidine and not less. http://onibasu.com/archives/am/7585.html He explained that the more histidine you have circulating in your body has less reason to convert it to histamine. He said you should continue as high as you can till you start suffering from nose congestion and or constipation. At this point you should start using ZINC and b6 to make a little more histamine.  So I’ve been experimenting with higher doses of zinc, and it certainly helps my nose. Zinc is also considered a mast cell stabilizer just as quercitin is.

But I’m kind of afraid of overdoing the zinc  so I will go to my GPA soon and see my relationship with copper. Something which is often said to be lower in higher histamine individuals as well. Whether it being bio unavailable or not. A poster named YAER on this forum as well as dannthehinngman made a clear statement in favour of copper many times.  But interpreting serum copper levels seem to be of voodoo kind. It seems that is all a little bit of hocus pocus. So I will also ask for  leukopenia and , low ceruloplasmin, and low red blood cell superoxide dismutase levels.
Many people seem also scared of carbs  for no reason. After a heavy weight training session your muscle can use glucose without the use of insulin. Like John Kiefer explained in his book carb back loading this can happen through the GLUT-4.

The treatment for high histamine levels, often relate to higher levels of: Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium(Taian mentioned that being very bad, where it seems important in the most methylation protocols). B6-p5p. Methionine or SAM-E , TMG. I’m experimenting a little with the first 5. Should really get an hair analysis or 23me test to know my DNA breakdowns for the methylation process.
Histamine seems also to correlate to higher estrogen levels.  You can see my levels as well as my other hormones in the 1st link in this post describing my own situation. I’d like to bring it a down a notch but overall not to unhappy.  It’s a complex situation all around and I feel that many people here or on other forums all have a little piece of the puzzle. If somehow people be more open to theorize a little bit we’d be a lot further. Though it certainly seems it’s all connected.

Thanks for reading,

BrodjeQuestion wrote:While here goes my reply I was typing one already but I lost it:
My own hair situation hasn't changed alot since my last post. https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t9594-my-tale-long-read-with-bloodwork-and-background It aint worse but I wouldn't say it is better either. Would be happy if it stayed the same though. You could say that my hair situation has stabilized somewhat, but I have to take some pictures and compare them or ask someone else to know for sure. I do style it backwards as it is long so it might be somewhat deceiving. What has noticeably improved though, are my eyebrows they had been thinning, so I guess that would be seen as an improvement.  My hair texture has been a little off though more fine and more kinky, but that's something that I've had for ages. But in the context of my story it serves a purpose in relation to copper levels. I also like to think that in the last 2 years my hair has been turning darker.

Though I do have weird thin hair on side of my ears. I searched the web for this but it was hard to find anything related to this, except for of course this forum. Here, is a similar link to what I’ve experienced on the side of my scalp https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t8177-side-back-thinning?highlight=side fascinating stuff in my opinion and yet so annoying. Some people mention that being thyroid related, I guess I felt the same though my thyroid tabs were good in my last post. I didn’t start using any iodine or related supplements when I noticed that side thinning so it’s something that was already existing prior to this. It might subclinical thyroid related which can very well be the case, but I would like to think that in my case, the thyroid might be more of a symptom then a cause.

I did experiment a bit with all the intermediate fasting and before the ketonic diet, I have to say though it wasn’t the best of times my hair went worse. I felt cold all the time and would even train in sweaters, in spring and people’d ask me why and told them I was cutting, obv being cold. So I can relate big time do dannthehinngmans story which can be found here, https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t9975-good-news-diffuse-thinneres-regimen-for-diffuse-hairloss-that-i-know-will-work-for-the-majority .
He also said that going low-carb messed him up pretty badly. After reading his thread and asking some questions few times I started dosing high biotin, b2 and niacinamide. Like him, I also noticed my eyebrows getting better, I saw new hairs popping and I’ve felt I was on the right track.  At some point every improvement is something one cheers about. I also bought niacin at the time and tried it though it gave me a red rash. Since then this rollercoaster ride of me trying to find more about it and adding more supplements has started.

Apperently like dann mentioned going Ketonic for a long time,  will deplete your biotin levels. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24012088 Consumption of a low-carbohydrate and high-fat diet (the ketogenic diet) exaggerates biotin deficiency in mice.

Since then I’ve also read Taians’s regimen and I’ve tried to add a few things of his, to what I was already using since joining this forum and things that I’ve picked up along the way by lurking here. Now it is obvious that there is a wealth of information in that thread, but I believe that it doesn’t really apply instantly for everyone. Maybe I should revisit that diet with my current supplements and biotin though, but since I’m feeling better with what I’m doing now I will hold that off for now.

My current diet or a glimpse: 5 whole eggs, basmati rice, Kiwi, salmon, pea’s/broccoli, meat and veggies. 3-4 Whey isolate(only soy lectin no fillers), and Creatine Monohydrate.(Starting creating to help with methylation). No gluten as mentioned in my first post, I got dermatitis herpetiformis after eating gluten.  Though have to mention that this started when I had cut out gluten already. I didn’t avoid eating them at social gatherings though one time I did again and gotten the rash. Since then I’ve stopped eating it completely).

Current supplements: Zinc Pico 50-100mg, MSM, Quercitin, B6 p5p, Magensium Citrate(stopped causing me insomnia), chelated calcium, Selenium, Vitamin d3, k2-mk7, Cod liver oil, Taurine, Biotine 10.000mcg,, Swanson bioactive b-complex ALA and boron. Iodine which I’ve worked up to 50mg, but it did gave me a sore throat at times. Haven’t taking it for a few weeks now.
Though one of the problems I still have Is terrible insomnia, it toke me ages to cut out magnesium citrate cause I figured how could it be the magnesium? But it made my heart pound, it might be a detox reaction but still it’s getting significantly better since stopping it. I wasn’t tired during the day though, I was basically running at adrenaline do to the histamine. You think you need no sleep and are very energetic but this is  false.

My theory-crafting:
To test for high histamine levels you use vitamin b3 (the flushing kind so that would be niacin) and NOT niacinamide or inositol hexanicotinate. You should search google or this forum for the exact test, but I believe if one flushes at 50mg or less one can be considered high histamine. I believe CS said before that it’s a cheap and safe way to test for histamine levels. High histamine levels often also relate to being a fast-oxidizer. Personally speaking, when I take even a tiny bit I’m red all over my body, think sunburn times 10. As a side note, there has been a topic posted about premature ejaculation this is often also related to high histamine level. Thus, using antihistamines can often relieve this, and make it possible to last longer. In my case my histamine levels are so high at times that I only need my mind it’s crazy when you think about it.

Here are some symptoms related to high histamine, toke the first random link from google.:http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-11175/everything-you-need-to-know-about-histamine-intolerance.html

Common symptoms of histamine intolerance include:
• Headaches/migraines
• Difficulty falling asleep, easily arousal
• Hypertension
• Vertigo or dizziness
• Arrhythmia, or accelerated heart rate
• Difficulty regulating body temperature
• Anxiety
• Nausea, vomiting
• Abdominal cramps
• Flushing
• Nasal congestion, sneezing, difficulty breathing
• Abnormal menstrual cycle
• Hives
• Fatigue
• Tissue swelling

What Causes High Histamine Levels?
• Allergies (IgE reactions)
• Bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
• Leaky gut
• GI bleeding
• Fermented alcohol like wine, champagne, and beer
• Diamine Oxidase (DAO) deficiency
• Histamine-rich foods

Nasal congestion obviously being a big factor which I suffer from as a few more things. Now what I’ve come to learn and read that it aint as clear cut whether you fall in one category or the other. I could find low histamine symptons which often relate to me aswell. I guess one really needs to think outside the box for a bit, and many would probably believe this to be to far fetched. What happens when histamine is released though is that your body produces adrenal hormones to try and clear them up. Histamine is a vasodilator which will block your nose and lower your blood pressure. The lowest reading I’ve had myself was 88/42. Though the adrenal hormones will try to clear them out of your system, (Adrenaline will counter histamine) and Cortisol also has some part to play in all this. I’d say that in a prolonged excessive stress sate and repeating this cycle enough your body will no longer produce sufficient cortisol. There are some people who would say that during periods of very low cortisol your thyroid will also suffer as your body will try to slow itself down. So high cortisol aint good but I’d dare to say very low levels is worse. Thus me describing my thyroid as being a symptom.  Undermethylators often suffer from the lack of methyl groups, so providing them through the 3 different path ways can be important. Many people would tell you to avoid Folic acid or cyanocobalamin which will use up methyl groups in trying to convert them to their active form. I supplement both in the b-complex in their active state bit controversial perhaps but I'm trying this. One of the most costly process of where your body loses methyl groups is by making CREATINE. So thus I try to safe some by supplementing with creatine.

(Maybe CS or someone else could clarify this). But during Adrenaline heightened state you will burn through your glucose storage very fast. Afterwards when your glycogen storage are approaching low levels, your body will be start working in overdrive. It will try to provide the much needed glucose from Gluconeogenesis. It will breakdown muscle and fat to provide the glucose. Glucose will be dumped in the bloodstream at rapid pace. The body will produce insulin in reaction to this. So this way one can be walking around with constant elevated insulin levels.

Should we eat more protein or and fat to reduce oxidation or give us more glucose through the use of carbs? I’m choosing the latter at the moment. Obviously training 6 days out of 8 days, I need it to keep it up. Remember most protein are high in histidine, which is a precursor to histamine. So that’s why you often read that these people should eat less protein.
I found an interesting topic from the user called rockyjs (from prohealth forum) who wrote about an unorthodox method which involved more histidine and not less. http://onibasu.com/archives/am/7585.html He explained that the more histidine you have circulating in your body has less reason to convert it to histamine. He said you should continue as high as you can till you start suffering from nose congestion and or constipation. At this point you should start using ZINC and b6 to make a little more histamine.  So I’ve been experimenting with higher doses of zinc, and it certainly helps my nose. Zinc is also considered a mast cell stabilizer just as quercitin is.

But I’m kind of afraid of overdoing the zinc  so I will go to my GPA soon and see my relationship with copper. Something which is often said to be lower in higher histamine individuals as well. Whether it being bio unavailable or not. A poster named YAER on this forum as well as dannthehinngman made a clear statement in favour of copper many times.  But interpreting serum copper levels seem to be of voodoo kind. It seems that is all a little bit of hocus pocus. So I will also ask for  leukopenia and , low ceruloplasmin, and low red blood cell superoxide dismutase levels.
Many people seem also scared of carbs  for no reason. After a heavy weight training session your muscle can use glucose without the use of insulin. Like John Kiefer explained in his book carb back loading this can happen through the GLUT-4.

The treatment for high histamine levels, often relate to higher levels of: Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium(Taian mentioned that being very bad, where it seems important in the most methylation protocols). B6-p5p. Methionine or SAM-E , TMG. I’m experimenting a little with the first 5. Should really get an hair analysis or 23me test to know my DNA breakdowns for the methylation process.
Histamine seems also to correlate to higher estrogen levels.  You can see my levels as well as my other hormones in the 1st link in this post describing my own situation. I’d like to bring it a down a notch but overall not to unhappy.  It’s a complex situation all around and I feel that many people here or on other forums all have a little piece of the puzzle. If somehow people be more open to theorize a little bit we’d be a lot further. Though it certainly seems it’s all connected.

Thanks for reading,

Hi Brodje, interesting post. I too have noticed nasal congestion. In 2008 (way before hairloss in 2013) it was awful, my nose was permanently blocked and I was spraying nasal congestant up it constantly just to get by - some synthetic crap I got at the Pharmacy. Anyway after months of this I did research and ended up buying colloidal silver nasal spray and a controversial probiotic called Threelac. My nasal congestion cleared very quickly and for the first time in years I felt like I could get up very early in the morning if I wanted to, although I didn't because I'm a lazy bast**rd. I can't say which of these products cleared the nasal congestion but without a doubt I'd say the Threelac was responsible for the early morning "rise n' shine" sh'dizzle.

Also, I think adrenals are very important for hair because I know mine are way out of whack and I'm producing way too much cortisol which is not good for my thyroid and hair. It would be nice to have some kind of action plan for the adrenals - daily juicing/ mineral supps/ Chinese herbs. But as Simply Red says - Money's too tight to mention, so I need an exact plan of what to buy. Ashwagandha (Now Brand) did nothing for me. I've heard perhaps Rehmannia could be good.

The guy in the following video produced a tonic mixture (powdered drink) called Jing City which is meant to be designed for adrenals, but its a rip off and has like 7 customer reviews. If he was to give me a crate of it for free I would certainly provide 100 reviews for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-YKRESbbuc

http://www.longevitywarehouse.com/jing-city-vegan-with-lucuma-16-oz-in-glass

Anyway, these were my thoughts on your post.
Cheers

Duketronix wrote:I've heard there are issues with it going systemic.  I just don't use it because I don't feel I need it.  Also the Pharma route I feel like I've tried it and gotten past what it gave me for results in the first place.

As for Nettle I have taken it in the past but didn't really notice much from it.  I do drink nettle tea though.  It's just in a mix of stuff I use for my tea, pepermint, green tea, ginger, milk thistle, dandelion root if I recall correctly.  I just mix it myself and have that at night if I want a hot drink instead of coffee.  That or stock.  I always make my own stocks from left over veggies, chicken carcasses/bones and herbs I have around like thyme, basil, sage etc..   and drink them fairly regularly.  very good for you on many levels.

Duke, you seem to have diet well worked out and you have hair loss under control so I think you are maybe a good person to ask - Is there any chance you could maybe give us a 7 day meal by meal breakdown? In other words could you make a note of a week's worth of your food for us? A meal diary so to speak.

Because diet is a real stumbling block for me, I know what to avoid, but still I don't really know what I'm doing. Kinda feel like I'm pissing in the dark - don't know if I'm on target.   

BrodjeQuestion wrote: So I can relate big time do dannthehinngmans story which can be found here, https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t9975-good-news-diffuse-thinneres-regimen-for-diffuse-hairloss-that-i-know-will-work-for-the-majority .
He also said that going low-carb messed him up pretty badly. After reading his thread and asking some questions few times I started dosing high biotin, b2 and niacinamide. Like him, I also noticed my eyebrows getting better, I saw new hairs popping and I’ve felt I was on the right track.

Yeah, I followed his protocol megadosing Biotin, Riboflavin and Niacin as I have had eyebrow loss. I think it made my eyebrows a bit better, a bit thicker, a bit more growth, but it definitely didn't stop the hair loss (eyebrows or scalp). I think it made the scalp hair thicker though. Brand of supps is important I think; I was first using the Solgar Brand for my Biotin and Riboflavin and then ran out. As money was tight I bought cheaper brands - Now for the Riboflavin and Natrol for the Biotin - results were nowhere near as good - I suspect the Natrol Biotin isn' t good. What brands did you take Brodje?

Cheers