Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

if this theory is true, then what's the role of DHT on hair loss?

Only that Dht is the reason for the tight scalp?

I have friends that take propecia and nothing else and they have regrowth.

So, where the grease goes by just taking a pill? It is still there, (according the theory) but they have regrowth....i just don't get it...

it also does not explain why females dont get mpb. they have galeas, and presumably grease. i dont understand why a females galea would not be just as prone to tightening.

i think that if it is causing regrowth as ppl are suggesting, then its not correcting the cause of mpb. its just overriding it, and stimulating regrowth, i was under the impression the grease 'clogging follicles', myth has been debunked.

Females have way different hormones. Hormones play a role in all of this.

I also wonder if having long hair could somehow assist in keeping the scalp more flexible as it would pull on the follicles...

I doubt there is any kind of "grease"... there is plenty of studies showing that mechanical stimulation of the scalp upregulates hair growth factors and downregulates atrophic factors... those studies were posted here, maybe even in this thread, and I've seen them on other forums as well but can't be bothered to find them (it involved VEGF and such).

And of course that this doesn't adress the 'cause', the true 'cause' will not ever be a single thing but a complex array of factors and it will take many more years until they even begin to piece it together, that is if anyone IS even interested in finding a cause because so far everyone just seems to be researching how to make better hair transplants from cloning hair cells and such, there is not much research aimed at figuring out what happens in MPB, most people don't even view it as a disease, but it is a disease in as much as any other disease that involves decay and loss of a body part - in this case your hair... but people view it as a vanity thing and it gets brushed off as non-serious. Idiots, needless to say.

rofl wrote:it also does not explain why females dont get mpb.  they have galeas, and presumably grease.  i dont understand why a females galea would not be just as prone to tightening.

i think that if it is causing regrowth as ppl are suggesting, then its not correcting the cause of mpb.  its just overriding it, and stimulating regrowth, i was under the impression the grease 'clogging follicles', myth has been debunked.  

The galea in males is tighter IMO because the male brain is 15% larger. A larger brain causes skull expansion and likely a tighter galea.

Whatever the argument may be, we can't deny the results Drexx and others have been achieving via these methods. The guy has regrown lots of temple hair -- something which I just did not believe was possible until I saw his and others results.

Women also have weaker muscles and a lot more flexibility.

I think this exercise ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUXWCtwmDcM ) could be also as effective as the massage of the scalp which was mentioned above. Or am I wrong ?

lamka wrote:I think this exercise ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUXWCtwmDcM ) could be also as effective as the massage of the scalp which was mentioned above. Or am I wrong ?

no. is folding a stiff piece of cardboard in every place in every possible direction til it's like a piece of cloth the same as sliding it over the table?

but in addition to dt it can't hurt to do this exercise from time to time.

Xenon wrote:

rofl wrote:it also does not explain why females dont get mpb.  they have galeas, and presumably grease.  i dont understand why a females galea would not be just as prone to tightening.

i think that if it is causing regrowth as ppl are suggesting, then its not correcting the cause of mpb.  its just overriding it, and stimulating regrowth, i was under the impression the grease 'clogging follicles', myth has been debunked.  

The galea in males is tighter IMO because the male brain is 15% larger. A larger brain causes skull expansion and likely a tighter galea.

Whatever the argument may be, we can't deny the results Drexx and others have been achieving via these methods. The guy has regrown lots of temple hair -- something which I just did not believe was possible until I saw his and others results.

I'm glad I'm seeing familiar names like your own replying in this thread. It truly gives myself some validity when I see drexx, Duke, you, and a variety of others really trying to dig into this disease. I am very hopeful that this is what we've been looking for.

I am in the absolute best shape of my life. I can do one handed pull-ups, sprint for days, and jumprope forever. Here is the thing, I have been training extremely hard the last year. I have been on a ridiculously strict diet and eat PLENTY of vegetables and fruit everyday, everything organic. I take the IH 6, apple cider vinegar, oil pull, enough sleep, meditation for stress, and yet no terminal regrowth. I am astounded that for me, I believe internals are not the problem. I did all of this because I started to have a receding hairline. MPB is probably the best thing to happen to me in the long run. I would have never changed into who I am now.

With all of that aside, I believe it is something external. When I started brushing (1 1/2 years ago), it was constant dead skin falling off and peeling. I dermarolled and peeled even more fibrous/hard tissue off of my temples. Now, 2 months into this, and never has my scalp felt so good. I have vellus hairs all over my temples that grew slightly and pimples popping up here and there. I also notice the bumpy texture beneath my bald spots. It is the EXACT experience everyone is talking about. (Very rarely do I see a thread with an idea where everyone's experiences are similar.) I hate to really hype this shit up because I need to stay grounded and realize what I'm seeing in the mirror. All I can tell you is that my scalp feels great.

RAptor wrote:But if everything about the blood circulation and grease is true, how come the transplanted hairs stay and grow on such area?

They don't most of the time.... That's why good HT surgeons prescribe FIN for life after the transplant, so it won't die out.

Xenon wrote:

rofl wrote:it also does not explain why females dont get mpb.  they have galeas, and presumably grease.  i dont understand why a females galea would not be just as prone to tightening.

i think that if it is causing regrowth as ppl are suggesting, then its not correcting the cause of mpb.  its just overriding it, and stimulating regrowth, i was under the impression the grease 'clogging follicles', myth has been debunked.  

The galea in males is tighter IMO because the male brain is 15% larger. A larger brain causes skull expansion and likely a tighter galea.

Whatever the argument may be, we can't deny the results Drexx and others have been achieving via these methods. The guy has regrown lots of temple hair -- something which I just did not believe was possible until I saw his and others results.

My mother has severe severe scoliosis, which as a result makes her scalp tight most of the time.... No hair loss whatsoever. I'm still 100% about the Galea & blood flow theory.... It's the best explanation.

if grease is really stuck in the pores there then an easier way to get it out, (vs months of massage) is to heat the skin slightly (sebum melts at a very low temperature) and then use some sort of device to suck it out or use polysorbate 80 and rub it in really good to dissolve it.

if you notice in the study they have supporting evidence for certain observations. skin thickness measurements and temperature of the scalp etc

the grease thing is the only thing they have not verified for before and after. they have not verified there is grease stuck in the pores. they have not verified that grease was removed.

bananasinpajamas wrote:if grease is really stuck in the pores there then an easier way to get it out, (vs months of massage) is to heat the skin slightly (sebum melts at a very low temperature) and then use some sort of device to suck it out or use polysorbate 80 and rub it in really good to dissolve it.

I don't think it's a grease thing, my feeling is that it's a calcification thing. Check out this thread that rofl linked to in the 'welp, my hair is growing back thread': http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/hairloss/page2-newsarticles/magnesium_oil_for_hair_loss. It's well worth a read.

EDIT: scroll to the bottom to - Magnesium Oil For Hair Loss.

@nidhogge, if you are watching this thread - do you still stand by what you wrote way back in 2010 in your article entitled Magnesium Oil For Hair Loss?

It seemed like you were advocating the use of a combination of Mag oil, K2 and D3 to remove calcification from the scalp. If so, what kind of dosages would you recommend?

I feel that this combo would be a great addition to the already great DT, don't you think?

If grease was the problem, this could be an alternative...but as you can see, the hair is still there


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UcmfSCs-CM

Yes - Glad I finally crept back onto the forum to talk about this, and even happier that the old article is being linked. When I used Magnesium Oil in the shower religiously, my hair was looking fantastic. In addition, I used LLLT. Decalcify was created specifically to address calcification... it has everything you could possibly need, though nothing replaces Magnesium Oil regardless of how well it is absorbed internaly. Let me explain a few things...

- ATP is huge for cell health. LLLT and Magnesium contribute to both. Magnesium Oil is basically just as good as getting it through an IV. Healthy ATP levels will benefit hair.

- The tightening of the galea... here are my thoughts. Galea tightens, blood flow is restricted. Lack of bloodflow = lack of oxygen, and CS posted a study a while back that found that THIS is the cause of excessive DHT production. Excessive DHT breeds more follicular mites, and studies have shown that those with MPB have Demodex mite overpopulation. Demodex mite overpopulation results in clogged follicles, and inflammation. Inflammation results in bruised, and then scarred tissue (follicular miniaturization that leads to calcification).

- Demodex mites aren't the only cause of inflammation... gluten, sugar, and dairy are also killers, and can result in more sebum production incidentally (food for the mites).

- Why do women not experience hair loss from the tightening of the galea? That brain being 15% larger is interesting (never knew that), but it could be because DHT is the sister hormone of Testosterone. Men have far higher levels of test than women and, therefore, far more potential for DHT production. This may be a bit of a reach, but just as male estrogen levels rise as you age, so do female test levels, with women often losing hair as they get older. However, that can be due to a number of factors ranging from thyroid, dietary, etc. Just a consideration...

I feel that massaging around the galea, the Maliniak Method, is a valid and effective method. You just need to stick with it for a solid year, and see how it works out for you.

nidhogge wrote:Yes - Glad I finally crept back onto the forum to talk about this, and even happier that the old article is being linked.  When I used Magnesium Oil in the shower religiously, my hair was looking fantastic.  In addition, I used LLLT.  Decalcify was created specifically to address calcification... it has everything you could possibly need, though nothing replaces Magnesium Oil regardless of how well it is absorbed internaly. Let me explain a few things...

- ATP is huge for cell health.  LLLT and Magnesium contribute to both.  Magnesium Oil is basically just as good as getting it through an IV.  Healthy ATP levels will benefit hair.

- The tightening of the galea... here are my thoughts.  Galea tightens, blood flow is restricted.  Lack of bloodflow = lack of oxygen, and CS posted a study a while back that found that THIS is the cause of excessive DHT production.  Excessive DHT breeds more follicular mites, and studies have shown that those with MPB have Demodex mite overpopulation. Demodex mite overpopulation results in clogged follicles, and inflammation.  Inflammation results in bruised, and then scarred tissue (follicular miniaturization that leads to calcification).

- Demodex mites aren't the only cause of inflammation... gluten, sugar, and dairy are also killers, and can result in more sebum production incidentally (food for the mites).

- Why do women not experience hair loss from the tightening of the galea?  That brain being 15% larger is interesting (never knew that), but it could be because DHT is the sister hormone of Testosterone.  Men have far higher levels of test than women and, therefore, far more potential for DHT production.  This may be a bit of a reach, but just as male estrogen levels rise as you age, so do female test levels, with women often losing hair as they get older.  However, that can be due to a number of factors ranging from thyroid, dietary, etc. Just a consideration...

I feel that massaging around the galea, the Maliniak Method, is a valid and effective method.  You just need to stick with it for a solid year, and see how it works out for you.

Very, very interesting - thanks a lot nidhogge :-) Bear in mind that DT is way more intense than the Maliniak Method in terms of massage - this is more mangling than massage, and it focuses not only on the muscles on the back and sides, but on the scalp itself, which should break up calcified tissue quicker?

Do you still think that D3 and K2 are worth supplementing in conjunction with Mag oil? Also, would nano silver kill demodex mites? I read awhile back that Prague thought that nano silver would assist hairs to cycle back into growth phase - any idea why this would be?

I thought I'd also add something else FWIW; I've had a lifelong habit of frowning or scowling when I'm out in sunlight because I find that my eyes are quite sensitive to sunlight; this facial expression causes the frontalis muscles of the forehead to contract quite tightly, so I wonder if this has caused the tissue of the temples to become tighter and reduce bloodflow? I'm actually doing it now and I can feel that the tissue of the temples is being pulled tightly.

Secondly, my forehead is quite a bulbous and prominent, so I wonder if excessive muscular contractions (from frowning) have caused these muscles to overgrow, thus causing the tissue to become even tighter?

There was a case I read about a lady who developed a square jaw because she kept on clenching her teeth (another lifelong habit) and this caused her jaw muscles to overgrow, hence the square jaw. She was given botox injections into her jaw muscles which caused them to relax and they gradually began to shrink to a normal size. I wonder if I learn to relax my forehead muscles more often, that this will have the same catabolic effect?

Finally, excessive muscular contractions are known to produce excess lactic acid. Could this be another reason why lactic acid builds up so much within the temples?

ETA: perhaps such muscular contractions causes these muscles (in men) to undergo greater levels of anabolism than the scalp muscles of women because of testosterone? T is a more potent steroid than estrogen, so maybe this is why muscle growth and scalp tension is more marked in men than women.

I've been on DT for approximately one month and I can already feel a lot of small hairs coming up on the crown area. I'm not seeing results on temples yet but I've been more focusing on the crown for this first month. So it might be the beginning of a long route to success !
By the way, I was wondering if any of you guys had came up with results as good as Drex's ones ? Because I heard that some of you were having success..
Also what do you guys think of the 30 months window to regrow fallen hair ?

BelieveInIt wrote:
no. is folding a stiff piece of cardboard in every place in every possible direction til it's like a piece of cloth the same as sliding it over the table?

Sorry, my english is not good enough to understand that

BelieveInIt wrote:but in addition to dt it can't hurt to do this exercise from time to time.

IMHO... control your scalp muscles is more important than moving your scalp using your fingers. It is nearly the same as the Tom Hagerty's scalp exercise. If I do this I can feel my scalp is loose so much ... and it is good sign.

Xenon wrote: I've had a lifelong habit of frowning or scowling when I'm out in sunlight because I find that my eyes are quite sensitive to sunlight; this facial expression causes the frontalis muscles of the forehead to contract quite tightly, so I wonder if this has caused the tissue of the temples to become tighter and reduce bloodflow?

Just for this reason I do the scalp exercise. It helps me to relax my entire scalp.
Maybe Complex or other, if you have any experience with Tom Hagerty's scalp exercise or with something like that .. post here a reply please : ).

Edit. : If you do not like the fat man in previous video, here is another : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48By0g9atZs

JamesDean wrote:I've been on DT for approximately one month and I can already feel a lot of small hairs coming up on the crown area. I'm not seeing results on temples yet but I've been more focusing on the crown for this first month. So it might be the beginning of a long route to success !
By the way, I was wondering if any of you guys had came up with results as good as Drex's ones ? Because I heard that some of you were having success..
Also what do you guys think of the 30 months window to regrow fallen hair ?

To be honest, I personally don't put too much stock in the 30 month window theory. Drex has had regrowth on areas that were slick for much longer than 30 months.

I have had terminal hairs sprouting in the last month or two in areas along my hairline which haven't had hair for over 10 years. These were not miniaturising hairs, these areas had nothing but very tiny vellus hairs on them. Every month or so I'm seeing new terminals popping up - they're blond so they're hard to spot, but they're definitely not vellus anymore.

Now, I should clarify, that these few terminals are nothing cosmetically significant yet - but if I can get those few back, why can't I get the others back too? That's the theory, the practice is gonna take longer to demonstrate :-)

Hairy Potter wrote:

JamesDean wrote:I've been on DT for approximately one month and I can already feel a lot of small hairs coming up on the crown area. I'm not seeing results on temples yet but I've been more focusing on the crown for this first month. So it might be the beginning of a long route to success !
By the way, I was wondering if any of you guys had came up with results as good as Drex's ones ? Because I heard that some of you were having success..
Also what do you guys think of the 30 months window to regrow fallen hair ?

To be honest, I personally don't put too much stock in the 30 month window theory. Drex has had regrowth on areas that were slick for much longer than 30 months.

I have had terminal hairs sprouting in the last month or two in areas along my hairline which haven't had hair for over 10 years. These were not miniaturising hairs, these areas had nothing but very tiny vellus hairs on them. Every month or so I'm seeing new terminals popping up - they're blond so they're hard to spot, but they're definitely not vellus anymore.

Now, I should clarify, that these few terminals are nothing cosmetically significant yet - but if I can get those few back, why can't I get the others back too? That's the theory, the practice is gonna take longer to demonstrate :-)

Well that's already good news for you ! Did you stop your overall shedding ? Are you on supps as well ? I believe Drex isn't on anything except DT. It would be awesome to see another one having as much success as Drex !

JamesDean wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

JamesDean wrote:I've been on DT for approximately one month and I can already feel a lot of small hairs coming up on the crown area. I'm not seeing results on temples yet but I've been more focusing on the crown for this first month. So it might be the beginning of a long route to success !
By the way, I was wondering if any of you guys had came up with results as good as Drex's ones ? Because I heard that some of you were having success..
Also what do you guys think of the 30 months window to regrow fallen hair ?

To be honest, I personally don't put too much stock in the 30 month window theory. Drex has had regrowth on areas that were slick for much longer than 30 months.

I have had terminal hairs sprouting in the last month or two in areas along my hairline which haven't had hair for over 10 years. These were not miniaturising hairs, these areas had nothing but very tiny vellus hairs on them. Every month or so I'm seeing new terminals popping up - they're blond so they're hard to spot, but they're definitely not vellus anymore.

Now, I should clarify, that these few terminals are nothing cosmetically significant yet - but if I can get those few back, why can't I get the others back too? That's the theory, the practice is gonna take longer to demonstrate :-)

Well that's already good news for you ! Did you stop your overall shedding ? Are you on supps as well ? I believe Drex isn't on anything except DT. It would be awesome to see another one having as much success as Drex !

My overall shedding stopped about 6 or 7 years ago when all my hair fell out   That's why I can be so calm about this whole thing, because it certainly can't get any worse. For me, I am more or less starting from scratch aside from a few struggling terminals in the vertex region (I think that's what it's called) - the little 'island' at the top.

Here's the thing though - if I hadn't lost all my hair, I don't know that I would've learnt as much about myself as I know now. Sometimes you have to hit bottom before you can let go, you know? It was a hell of a bumpy ride, I'll be honest, one that I wouldn't wish on any man. But here I am, still alive.

And guess what? The friends I have know me as a bald guy and they still like me - that means a lot to me.

Having said all that, I have always had this feeling that going bald is just not right, a kind of indignation rises up within me and goes, 'that's not who I really am'. Some would probably call that 'denial', but I don't know - I accept it, but at the same time I don't want to just lie down and take it, if that makes any sense at all .....

Hairy Potter wrote:

JamesDean wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

JamesDean wrote:I've been on DT for approximately one month and I can already feel a lot of small hairs coming up on the crown area. I'm not seeing results on temples yet but I've been more focusing on the crown for this first month. So it might be the beginning of a long route to success !
By the way, I was wondering if any of you guys had came up with results as good as Drex's ones ? Because I heard that some of you were having success..
Also what do you guys think of the 30 months window to regrow fallen hair ?

To be honest, I personally don't put too much stock in the 30 month window theory. Drex has had regrowth on areas that were slick for much longer than 30 months.

I have had terminal hairs sprouting in the last month or two in areas along my hairline which haven't had hair for over 10 years. These were not miniaturising hairs, these areas had nothing but very tiny vellus hairs on them. Every month or so I'm seeing new terminals popping up - they're blond so they're hard to spot, but they're definitely not vellus anymore.

Now, I should clarify, that these few terminals are nothing cosmetically significant yet - but if I can get those few back, why can't I get the others back too? That's the theory, the practice is gonna take longer to demonstrate :-)

Well that's already good news for you ! Did you stop your overall shedding ? Are you on supps as well ? I believe Drex isn't on anything except DT. It would be awesome to see another one having as much success as Drex !

My overall shedding stopped about 6 or 7 years ago when all my hair fell out   That's why I can be so calm about this whole thing, because it certainly can't get any worse. For me, I am more or less starting from scratch aside from a few struggling terminals in the vertex region (I think that's what it's called) - the little 'island' at the top.

Here's the thing though - if I hadn't lost all my hair, I don't know that I would've learnt as much about myself as I know now. Sometimes you have to hit bottom before you can let go, you know? It was a hell of a bumpy ride, I'll be honest, one that I wouldn't wish on any man. But here I am, still alive.

And guess what? The friends I have know me as a bald guy and they still like me - that means a lot to me.

Having said all that, I have always had this feeling that going bald is just not right, a kind of indignation rises up within me and goes, 'that's not who I really am'. Some would probably call that 'denial', but I don't know - I accept it, but at the same time I don't want to just lie down and take it, if that makes any sense at all .....

Well keep faith and I'm sure you'll be able to regrow some hair ! It's crazy how loosing your hair makes you understand so much other things about health itself (unless you go on finasteride and don't ask any question to yourself...)

JamesDean wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

JamesDean wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

JamesDean wrote:I've been on DT for approximately one month and I can already feel a lot of small hairs coming up on the crown area. I'm not seeing results on temples yet but I've been more focusing on the crown for this first month. So it might be the beginning of a long route to success !
By the way, I was wondering if any of you guys had came up with results as good as Drex's ones ? Because I heard that some of you were having success..
Also what do you guys think of the 30 months window to regrow fallen hair ?

To be honest, I personally don't put too much stock in the 30 month window theory. Drex has had regrowth on areas that were slick for much longer than 30 months.

I have had terminal hairs sprouting in the last month or two in areas along my hairline which haven't had hair for over 10 years. These were not miniaturising hairs, these areas had nothing but very tiny vellus hairs on them. Every month or so I'm seeing new terminals popping up - they're blond so they're hard to spot, but they're definitely not vellus anymore.

Now, I should clarify, that these few terminals are nothing cosmetically significant yet - but if I can get those few back, why can't I get the others back too? That's the theory, the practice is gonna take longer to demonstrate :-)

Well that's already good news for you ! Did you stop your overall shedding ? Are you on supps as well ? I believe Drex isn't on anything except DT. It would be awesome to see another one having as much success as Drex !

My overall shedding stopped about 6 or 7 years ago when all my hair fell out   That's why I can be so calm about this whole thing, because it certainly can't get any worse. For me, I am more or less starting from scratch aside from a few struggling terminals in the vertex region (I think that's what it's called) - the little 'island' at the top.

Here's the thing though - if I hadn't lost all my hair, I don't know that I would've learnt as much about myself as I know now. Sometimes you have to hit bottom before you can let go, you know? It was a hell of a bumpy ride, I'll be honest, one that I wouldn't wish on any man. But here I am, still alive.

And guess what? The friends I have know me as a bald guy and they still like me - that means a lot to me.

Having said all that, I have always had this feeling that going bald is just not right, a kind of indignation rises up within me and goes, 'that's not who I really am'. Some would probably call that 'denial', but I don't know - I accept it, but at the same time I don't want to just lie down and take it, if that makes any sense at all .....

Well keep faith and I'm sure you'll be able to regrow some hair ! It's crazy how loosing your hair makes you understand so much other things about health itself (unless you go on finasteride and don't ask any question to yourself...)

True that - and thanks for the encouragement...