Re: Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

Complexx Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:01 am

bananasinpajamas wrote:Complexx

Do you by chance know the regimen of the german guy who dermarolled? Like what length of needle and how often he did it? Any information would be great

Currently i do it twice a week. Using 1.5 mm and apply copper peptides after

Not sure what German guy you're referring to, but optimal sized needles would be 1.5-2 mm. Anything lower has very little affect on what we're trying to do.

EDIT: Once a week is mostly what I've seen.... Here's a lot more info for you.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/69374-New-Dermaroller-Study-Thoughts-comments

Complexx Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:51 am

Joey Ramone wrote:What's your regimen?

Edit: @Complexx

My regimen consists of using a Violet ray, applying Emu oil & Castor Oil on my scalp every so often, pushing the sides of my scalp upwards & a little bit of MM massage, Detumescence therapy, and Oil Pullling. I used to do Inversion therapy and some other things but I decided to stop since it was too much... I will be adding MSM or Serrapeptase to my regimen very, very soon.

Kind of off topic... but I will also be optimizing my posture, expanding my dental arches, and optimizing my cranial facial area via going to a good Chiro, Yoga, Damon Braces, Face Pulling, and NCR therapy. I personally think correcting my posture and optimizing my body via correcting all postural/bodily function issues will contribute A LOT to maintaining all of my hair regrowth effortlessly and achieving great health in general... But manuals is the only thing I see REGROWING anyone's hair.

Hairy Potter Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:30 am

Complexx wrote:
Joey Ramone wrote:
Complexx wrote:
Younganddetermined wrote:Hey all, I just started this therapy and I'm really impressed with how much more lax my scalp feels in general. It really is quite amazing the difference I am experiencing. All of those who have pushed this therapy along deserve a huge thank you. I want to thank all of you and let you know you are truly inspirations. I have a question though, do any of you experience a crunching phenomenon while pinching? If so, what do you suppose it is?

I've noticed a couple of guys participating in this therapy have reported the sne thing. I've also seen reports of several people noticing a "crunchy sound" or a "pop" after dernarolling... I'd say this is fibrotic or calcified tissue being broken up.... Anyway, it's common and seems to be a good sign.

You're giving a lot of advice on this thread and very little of your own experience, Complexx. Are you doing the massage yourself? Feels like you've got an ulterior motive when you're not providing anything from your own experience with it.

You caught me.... I'm selling a product. Here it is... buy it.

I'll take 124 packs! Do you ship to Antarctica???

Xenon Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:57 am

if blood flow was the rpoblem then why does transplanted hair have no problem growing in balding areas. and why does balding hair transplanted to non balding areas continue to die? ive never seen an answer to this question.

I remember reading that study about the transplanted 'balding' hair into the forearm, but I don't recall all of the details. Was it just one hair or were multiple balding hairs transplanted? Could you provide me a link to the study?

I read another study just earlier about some scientist who transplanted his head hair into his wife's forearm and it continued to grow. Apparently, hairs donated from one person to another do not trigger an immune response. But in fairness, this guy is not suffering from MPB, so may possibly explain why the hair continued to grow.

It would be interesting if they repeated the original experiment, but with balding hairs. In fact, I'm going to email that scientist and ask him if he would be willing to try it out.

ngb Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:55 am

Complexx wrote:
Joey Ramone wrote:What's your regimen?

Edit: @Complexx

My regimen consists of using a Violet ray, applying Emu oil & Castor Oil on my scalp every so often, pushing the sides of my scalp upwards & a little bit of MM massage, Detumescence therapy, and Oil Pullling. I used to do Inversion therapy and some other things but I decided to stop since it was too much... I will be adding MSM or Serrapeptase to my regimen very, very soon.

Kind of off topic... but I will also be optimizing my posture, expanding my dental arches, and optimizing my cranial facial area via going to a good Chiro, Yoga, Damon Braces, Face Pulling, and NCR therapy. I personally think correcting my posture and optimizing my body via correcting all postural/bodily function issues will contribute A LOT to maintaining all of my hair regrowth effortlessly and achieving great health in general... But manuals is the only thing I see REGROWING anyone's hair.

I have the ALF device right now to expand my dental arch. Have you heard of it? What's your opinion? I'm also doing myofunctional therapy and I've seen a cranial osteopath several times. I can feel my sinuses opening up as the arch expands (my canines have moved about 3mm in 4 months). The process isn't comfortable at all, which I would expect since it's slowly pulling your face apart essentially. I can just pull on my arch (grab the molars and pull apart, put your thumb on the roof of your mouth and pull forward) and I can feel and hear it crackle so I know that the tissue is moving. My intermaxillary suture is sore and gives me a headache behind my eyes. It's not fun but I just have to keep telling myself that it's temporary. I'm starting to get a gap between my teeth but I guess they can pull it together at the end with braces. What are Damon braces? What is NCR therapy? Does it have something to do with balloons? I live in Southern Califonia which has a lot of alternative health practitioners and there are only 2 NCR Doctor's in the bay area. I've seen chiropractors do something with a balloon in your sinuses and I don't know if that's the same thing. This is one of the most overlooked areas of alternative health. I read that 80% of people have a "deficiency" in their maxilla and if you know what to look for you can see it in a lot of people. I look at famous actors, athletes, news casters, politicians and you can tell that most are very well developed and it's no coincidence that they are in the positions they are in. I don't think we will ever have a President with a narrow dental arch (or a bald President).

ngb Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:05 am

Complexx wrote:
Joey Ramone wrote:What's your regimen?

Edit: @Complexx

My regimen consists of using a Violet ray, applying Emu oil & Castor Oil on my scalp every so often, pushing the sides of my scalp upwards & a little bit of MM massage, Detumescence therapy, and Oil Pullling. I used to do Inversion therapy and some other things but I decided to stop since it was too much... I will be adding MSM or Serrapeptase to my regimen very, very soon.

Kind of off topic... but I will also be optimizing my posture, expanding my dental arches, and optimizing my cranial facial area via going to a good Chiro, Yoga, Damon Braces, Face Pulling, and NCR therapy. I personally think correcting my posture and optimizing my body via correcting all postural/bodily function issues will contribute A LOT to maintaining all of my hair regrowth effortlessly and achieving great health in general... But manuals is the only thing I see REGROWING anyone's hair.

http://www.ncrdoctors.com/

Wow that looks interesting.

"Your wrinkles might diminish as your brain expands to its full capacity."

I know that my maxilla is expanding and I'm 33 years old so can all of the sutures in your skull expand? Hard to believe but I guess it's possible. I think most peoples maxillas don't develop properly because of their tongue position and swallowing habits that they had as children (and continue into adulthood). This can be treated with myofunctional therapy. Your overall brain size is probably genetic and I'm guessing it always grows to full size unlike your dental arch.

ngb Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:09 am

Well, of course Stephen Barrett is against it so I know there must be something to it.

http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/ncr.html

rofl Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:20 am

its not so much the sutures expand, its the constant turn over of bone via osteoclasts that break down bone, and osteoblasts that lay down new bone. so ur skull can slowly change shape over ur lifetime, and quicker in some disease states. whether or not the small change in shape can tighten the galea in some way is debatable. would be a pretty hard thing to measure unless ur either a brain surgeon regularly lifting layers off the skull, or a pathologist cutting up corpses, and either way youd have to take measurements 5,10 yrs apart to get any sort of data.

Complexx Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:29 am

ngb wrote:
Complexx wrote:
Joey Ramone wrote:What's your regimen?

Edit: @Complexx

My regimen consists of using a Violet ray, applying Emu oil & Castor Oil on my scalp every so often, pushing the sides of my scalp upwards & a little bit of MM massage, Detumescence therapy, and Oil Pullling. I used to do Inversion therapy and some other things but I decided to stop since it was too much... I will be adding MSM or Serrapeptase to my regimen very, very soon.

Kind of off topic... but I will also be optimizing my posture, expanding my dental arches, and optimizing my cranial facial area via going to a good Chiro, Yoga, Damon Braces, Face Pulling, and NCR therapy. I personally think correcting my posture and optimizing my body via correcting all postural/bodily function issues will contribute A LOT to maintaining all of my hair regrowth effortlessly and achieving great health in general... But manuals is the only thing I see REGROWING anyone's hair.

http://www.ncrdoctors.com/

Wow that looks interesting.

"Your wrinkles might diminish as your brain expands to its full capacity."

I know that my maxilla is expanding and I'm 33 years old so can all of the sutures in your skull expand? Hard to believe but I guess it's possible. I think most peoples maxillas don't develop properly because of their tongue position and swallowing habits that they had as children (and continue into adulthood). This can be treated with myofunctional therapy. Your overall brain size is probably genetic and I'm guessing it always grows to full size unlike your dental arch.

Nice man! Have you been reading Claiming Powers blog at www.claimingpower.com ?

Also: http://jawpain-tmjtreatment.com/ Very helpful site.

EDIT: Here are interviews with the creator of NCR. http://www.drdeanhowell.com/Biser-article-about-ncr-6-1-audio.html

http://www.drdeanhowell.com/Biser-article-about-ncr-6-6-audio.html

Complexx Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:31 am

ngb wrote:Well, of course Stephen Barrett is against it so I know there must be something to it.

http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/ncr.html

So is QuackWatch... lol.

Complexx Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:36 am

Hairy Potter wrote:
Complexx wrote:
Joey Ramone wrote:
Complexx wrote:
Younganddetermined wrote:Hey all, I just started this therapy and I'm really impressed with how much more lax my scalp feels in general. It really is quite amazing the difference I am experiencing. All of those who have pushed this therapy along deserve a huge thank you. I want to thank all of you and let you know you are truly inspirations. I have a question though, do any of you experience a crunching phenomenon while pinching? If so, what do you suppose it is?

I've noticed a couple of guys participating in this therapy have reported the sne thing. I've also seen reports of several people noticing a "crunchy sound" or a "pop" after dernarolling... I'd say this is fibrotic or calcified tissue being broken up.... Anyway, it's common and seems to be a good sign.

You're giving a lot of advice on this thread and very little of your own experience, Complexx. Are you doing the massage yourself? Feels like you've got an ulterior motive when you're not providing anything from your own experience with it.

You caught me.... I'm selling a product. Here it is... buy it.

I'll take 124 packs! Do you ship to Antarctica???

Haha yes sir we do! Your package will arrive March 32nd

Complexx Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:41 am

Xenon wrote:
if blood flow was the rpoblem then why does transplanted hair have no problem growing in balding areas. and why does balding hair transplanted to non balding areas continue to die? ive never seen an answer to this question.

I remember reading that study about the transplanted 'balding' hair into the forearm, but I don't recall all of the details. Was it just one hair or were multiple balding hairs transplanted? Could you provide me a link to the study?

I read another study just earlier about some scientist who transplanted his head hair into his wife's forearm and it continued to grow. Apparently, hairs donated from one person to another do not trigger an immune response. But in fairness, this guy is not suffering from MPB, so may possibly explain why the hair continued to grow.

It would be interesting if they repeated the original experiment, but with balding hairs. In fact, I'm going to email that scientist and ask him if he would be willing to try it out.

Man, it was so long ago since I read about that study that I don't even know if I can even find the link... I can probably guarantee that SlowMoe has access to it or something...

Jesus man... every single time you get into a discussion with me my brain turns upside down. lol

ngb Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:49 am

Complexx wrote:
ngb wrote:
Complexx wrote:
Joey Ramone wrote:What's your regimen?

Edit: @Complexx

My regimen consists of using a Violet ray, applying Emu oil & Castor Oil on my scalp every so often, pushing the sides of my scalp upwards & a little bit of MM massage, Detumescence therapy, and Oil Pullling. I used to do Inversion therapy and some other things but I decided to stop since it was too much... I will be adding MSM or Serrapeptase to my regimen very, very soon.

Kind of off topic... but I will also be optimizing my posture, expanding my dental arches, and optimizing my cranial facial area via going to a good Chiro, Yoga, Damon Braces, Face Pulling, and NCR therapy. I personally think correcting my posture and optimizing my body via correcting all postural/bodily function issues will contribute A LOT to maintaining all of my hair regrowth effortlessly and achieving great health in general... But manuals is the only thing I see REGROWING anyone's hair.

http://www.ncrdoctors.com/

Wow that looks interesting.

"Your wrinkles might diminish as your brain expands to its full capacity."

I know that my maxilla is expanding and I'm 33 years old so can all of the sutures in your skull expand? Hard to believe but I guess it's possible. I think most peoples maxillas don't develop properly because of their tongue position and swallowing habits that they had as children (and continue into adulthood). This can be treated with myofunctional therapy. Your overall brain size is probably genetic and I'm guessing it always grows to full size unlike your dental arch.

Nice man! Have you been reading Claiming Powers blog at www.claimingpower.com ?

Also: http://jawpain-tmjtreatment.com/ Very helpful site.

EDIT: Here are interviews with the creator of NCR. http://www.drdeanhowell.com/Biser-article-about-ncr-6-1-audio.html

http://www.drdeanhowell.com/Biser-article-about-ncr-6-6-audio.html

No, looks good. As far as the face pulling thing, I think that the ALF device would be better since it is a constant pressure 24/7. This is what Joy Moeller recommends. Another thing to consider is getting a frenectomy to cut the frenulum under your tongue (can also be a problem on your lips). This can prevent myofunctional therapy from working properly since it's impossible for your tongue to get into the right position.

Growdamnit Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:43 am

Sure looks like we are getting off-topic.

Xenon Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:26 am

Man, it was so long ago since I read about that study that I don't even know if I can even find the link... I can probably guarantee that SlowMoe has access to it or something...

Jesus man... every single time you get into a discussion with me my brain turns upside down. lol

It's cool, complexx, I found the study and emailed it on to that scientist guy, so I'm awaiting his response. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this issue once and for all.

Complexx Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:22 am

ngb wrote:
Complexx wrote:
ngb wrote:
Complexx wrote:
Joey Ramone wrote:What's your regimen?

Edit: @Complexx

My regimen consists of using a Violet ray, applying Emu oil & Castor Oil on my scalp every so often, pushing the sides of my scalp upwards & a little bit of MM massage, Detumescence therapy, and Oil Pullling. I used to do Inversion therapy and some other things but I decided to stop since it was too much... I will be adding MSM or Serrapeptase to my regimen very, very soon.

Kind of off topic... but I will also be optimizing my posture, expanding my dental arches, and optimizing my cranial facial area via going to a good Chiro, Yoga, Damon Braces, Face Pulling, and NCR therapy. I personally think correcting my posture and optimizing my body via correcting all postural/bodily function issues will contribute A LOT to maintaining all of my hair regrowth effortlessly and achieving great health in general... But manuals is the only thing I see REGROWING anyone's hair.

http://www.ncrdoctors.com/

Wow that looks interesting.

"Your wrinkles might diminish as your brain expands to its full capacity."

I know that my maxilla is expanding and I'm 33 years old so can all of the sutures in your skull expand? Hard to believe but I guess it's possible. I think most peoples maxillas don't develop properly because of their tongue position and swallowing habits that they had as children (and continue into adulthood). This can be treated with myofunctional therapy. Your overall brain size is probably genetic and I'm guessing it always grows to full size unlike your dental arch.

Nice man! Have you been reading Claiming Powers blog at www.claimingpower.com ?

Also: http://jawpain-tmjtreatment.com/ Very helpful site.

EDIT: Here are interviews with the creator of NCR. http://www.drdeanhowell.com/Biser-article-about-ncr-6-1-audio.html

http://www.drdeanhowell.com/Biser-article-about-ncr-6-6-audio.html

No, looks good. As far as the face pulling thing, I think that the ALF device would be better since it is a constant pressure 24/7. This is what Joy Moeller recommends. Another thing to consider is getting a frenectomy to cut the frenulum under your tongue (can also be a problem on your lips). This can prevent myofunctional therapy from working properly since it's impossible for your tongue to get into the right position.

Hey man, I swear I thought I had sent out another post to you. I typed up a novel of information about Damon Braces and some other stuff and it didn't even get published on here... I''m pissed off lol. Well, I guess I'll PM it to you since people are starting to cry about this thread going off topic... JK grow haha.

BTW, I would never focus on just Face Pulling alone, nor would I focus solely on Palatal expansion... They all work in conjunction with each other. Face Pulling is definitely needed to bring the entire face forward (jawline, cheekbones, etc.) and optimize our posture, as well as a whole list of other things that palatal expansion simply cannot do.. & vice versa. That's not to say that Palatal Expansion cannot bring the face forward, because it can, but it is just one tool in your tool belt... It's actual the most important tool in the belt haha. Face Pulling is the reason why Dr. Dean Howell, NCR founder, added the "FaceMax" to his program.

PS: If you look at ClaimingPower's recent blog post it'll actually talk about exactly what you just talked about (Tongue posture, myofunctional therapy, etc.) & yea.. I'll look that info up for sure.. thanks bro.

sizzlinghairs Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:48 pm

Duketronix wrote:My regrowth started before this with other massaging too.

This is just a more intense version.

I also use a wooden comb sometimes to massage the scalp.

you can always work out your fingers. Sounds like you have pretty weak wrists and fingers from what you describe. The numbness it almost %100 from your wrists or shoulders, not your fingers. Do some exercises for strength and mobility in all of them.

The ones used in gymnastics to build up to handstand and ring training are great IME.

The weird thing duke is that my numbness is concentrated on my middle fingers both hands, the ones that press against each other. I have good size knuckles so I dont know if there was some kind of entrapment of the nerves from all the pressing but once I stopped the numbness in my right middle finger came back. Same with my left.

But then I started again, as I thought my hands just needed time to adjust.. After a couple days my left middle finger lost a lot of sensation.. That was **3** months ago and my sensation has NOT come back.. I saw a neurologist and he thinks the idea of vigorous massage actually causing a compression neuropathy, just from constant force of two fingers together (albeit, its a long time 20min x 2/day), *extremely extremely* unlikely... So he thinks it might be a carpal tunnel style syndrome. Anyways Ive been wearing a brace on the effected hand, completely stopped lifting weights, and been trying to do only VERY minimal activity with it (including a huge reduction in typing, which is hard as Im in FULL time nursing school). STILL NO RETURN of sensation.. Ive tried all kinds of stretching, wrist exercises, nerve release, etc etc.. Nothing. Did I somehow cause a permanent damage to my nerves in my left middle finger?? I'm like WTF at this point. ITS JUST vigorous scalp massage and I gotta end up with this sh*t?! Sigh......... I really just need this to normalize but Im losing hope.. And on top of that I wanna start this therapy again..

Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:52 pm

I've bought a bamboo massage brush to do my massage. I should have bought two smaller ones so I could do the scrunching, but it feels good just doing circular motions with a fair bit of pressure. Getting way more flaking skin now; it's like Christmas every time I try it.

Fatigue and joint hypermobility were making manual massage too difficult. Knuckles was a bit easier, but since I don't seem to get acne with the brush I'm going to stick with it.

The craniofacial stuff is interesting to read, guys, so maybe split it into its own topic rather than PMs.

sizzlinghairs Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:21 am

Hey Unim, curious about your brush.

Could you link to it? Thanks bro.

Growdamnit Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:02 am

Unless we consistently do this with our fingers, results from brushing would not be able to contribute. Nothing in the study said anything about brushing.

Complexx Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:34 am

Xenon wrote:
Man, it was so long ago since I read about that study that I don't even know if I can even find the link... I can probably guarantee that SlowMoe has access to it or something...

Jesus man... every single time you get into a discussion with me my brain turns upside down. lol

It's cool, complexx, I found the study and emailed it on to that scientist guy, so I'm awaiting his response. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this issue once and for all.

Right on man... sounds good. Please keep in mind that women don't produce DHT like men do.. this is probably why the woman was able to grow the hair that was transplanted onto her forearm. The main problem in a male's scalp (one that has MPB of course) is DHT being overproduced due to the area being hypoxic. For some bizarre reason, DHT loves to stick around hypoxic areas, & once it does it starts to mess with a whole lot of the scalps other necessary functions.

EDIT: Don't know why I didn't think of this when you first posted that response about that one study... My brain has turned right side up again

PS: I forgot to say that I wish you the best of luck with your current regimen and getting those temples regrown. I have my fingers crossed for you bro! I know you'll be fine.. Just stick to it and make sure you don't call quits too early into the process.

Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:25 am

sizzlinghairs wrote:Hey Unim, curious about your brush.

Could you link to it? Thanks bro.

I have the second biggest one from this range: http://www.oliviagarden.com/healthyhair.htm

Thinking I should have gone for two of the smaller ones, though with just one I'm able to rest one arm at a time.
I chose this because the bristles aren't too pointy. There are plenty with much thicker bristles if you just search for 'wooden massage brush', which might be better. It seems to give comparable grip to fingers, but not as comfortable. I worry it might be tugging the hair a little so I go a bit easier.

I know it's not ideal to stray from the described method, but this is the best I can do for now so I can finally jump on the bandwagon.

Xenon Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:03 am

Complexx wrote:
Xenon wrote:
Man, it was so long ago since I read about that study that I don't even know if I can even find the link... I can probably guarantee that SlowMoe has access to it or something...

Jesus man... every single time you get into a discussion with me my brain turns upside down. lol

It's cool, complexx, I found the study and emailed it on to that scientist guy, so I'm awaiting his response. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this issue once and for all.

Right on man... sounds good. Please keep in mind that women don't produce DHT like men do.. this is probably why the woman was able to grow the hair that was transplanted onto her forearm. The main problem in a male's scalp (one that has MPB of course) is DHT being overproduced due to the area being hypoxic. For some bizarre reason, DHT loves to stick around hypoxic areas, & once it does it starts to mess with a whole lot of the scalps other necessary functions.

EDIT: Don't know why I didn't think of this when you first posted that response about that one study... My brain has turned right side up again

PS: I forgot to say that I wish you the best of luck with your current regimen and getting those temples regrown. I have my fingers crossed for you bro! I know you'll be fine.. Just stick to it and make sure you don't call quits too early into the process.

Hey, thanks man, and likewise.

I've been an extremely lazy SOB for many years - mainly due to depression, so maybe poor circulation / oxygen deficiency has played a huge part in all of this. Since I've been working out, I feel much better within myself, so maybe this + everything else I've gathered on hair loss will be key in restoring my temple hair.

And as for the 'balding clock' / hair transplant in forearm study, I wouldn't say that it is concrete in all circumstances because I only lose hair due to inflammatory triggers, which I can basically pin on increased blood acidity. The scalp is definitely a hypoxic environment and is therefore prone to lowered pH. AS54 and others mentioned something about DHT increasing hypoxia, so this would cause increased acidosis in an already hypoxically susceptible environment.

Maybe this is part of the reason why scalp massaging seems to work because it increases blood flow / oxygen delivery. When cells have enough oxygen to form ATP, then they wont produce as much inflammatory lactic acid. In fact, if anytime I am feeling scalp inflammation my natural instinct is to massage the inflamed area because this seems to alleviate it.

I thought I'd also mention, I'm back on a high carb diet because the low carb diet was causing too much blood acidity, which inflamed the hell out of my scalp. I'm not overindulging in carbs though because they cause me side effects if eaten in excess (portion control this time)... But so far so good; no side effects, no acidosis, no inflamed scalp.

BelieveInIt Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:32 am

just another thought i want to add to this thread, might further improve detumescence:

try to rest your head (on back of chair, couch, on bed) while doing massages because if you don't you have to keep it straight against the force of the massage which leads to contracted scalp + neck muscles thus taking a little off the effect of detumescence. probably nothing big but still worth considering.

bananasinpajamas Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:50 am

Has anyone ever considered heat treatment? A heating pad increases bloodflow more thsn massage or lasers etc

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