Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

The gross post

Pimples and bumps precede hair. I've seen it, I've experienced it on a small scale with manual methods prior to this one. New hair forcing crap out of the follicle. Never anything like I am seeing now though. All over. Is this a new phase in this exercise? Three months of priming the chambers, then three months of initial growth and then three more where everything else comes online where the remaining goo is vomited out of the follicles? No matter, for I know what each of these represent.




- Sanderson, I both move the skin every which way and also scrunch it together. Just pushing the skin into itself creates a sort of torque on itself. Go nuts.

- Young, no worries, have at it

- TM, Nizoral shampoo might alleviate some of your symptoms, available at most drugstores, found amongst the dandruff shampoos. Not for use every day. Use as directed

so u believe u will have a new hair eventually turn terminal out of each of those 'bumps'?

although i still have my doubts, i want u to know that i appreciate the efforts in documentation. means we will eventually know for sure it works /doesnt work with solid evidence. instead of ppl telling us to buy now. get proof later.

im also awaiting the verdict on theradome. waiting to see if 678 nm is the correct wavelength as opposed to 650nm.

i may be a skeptic. but id love nothing more than to be proven wrong. Hopefully this is the year we finally have some good outcomes for ppl.

personally if it doesnt happen this year, it might as well never happen for me.

This method works .I regrew the hair on parts of my eyebrow after damaging them.
The area was covered with hard bumped tissue. Also the hair on head looks far better .This method is a must
for itching also.

For better results slide with a mix of castor oil and chilli oil.The first breaks the tissue(you will feel sometimes that aliquid is being released and its not just sebum cause there is a different feeling to this) while the second brings the blood.

yup wrote:This method works .I regrew the hair on parts of my eyebrow after damaging them.
The area was covered with hard bumped tissue. Also the hair on head looks far better .This method is a must
for itching also.

For better results slide with a mix of castor oil and chilli oil.The first breaks the tissue(you will feel sometimes that aliquid is being released and its not just sebum cause there is a different feeling to this) while the second brings the blood.

Do you have evidence that castor oil indeed breaks the fibrosis ?
I mean, if it does, it could be huge to use some while doing detumescence, as you point out.

Manoko wrote:

yup wrote:This method works .I regrew the hair on parts of my eyebrow after damaging them.
The area was covered with hard bumped tissue. Also the hair on head looks far better .This method is a must
for itching also.

For better results slide with a mix of castor oil and chilli oil.The first breaks the tissue(you will feel sometimes that aliquid is being released and its not just sebum cause there is a different feeling to this) while the second brings the blood.

Do you have evidence that castor oil indeed breaks the fibrosis ?
I mean, if it does, it could be huge to use some while doing detumescence, as you point out.

Come on dude.Castor oil is classic.
Check out castor oil packs .Edgar Cayce made it quite famous
though its been know from long long time ago.

Castor oil and chilli oil rocks.I have grown hair through scar from stitches(surgery) through these oils.
Dont know which is better and dont care to be honest .Its really easy to make chilli oil.
In a 400-500 ml bottle fill it with EVOO.Then ad 3-5 tablespoons of extra hot chilli powder or cayenne pepper powder.
Keep it in a dark place and shake it everyday .At day 15 you can use and it will have a red cool colour.
It bring the blood to the area.

Manoko wrote:

yup wrote:This method works .I regrew the hair on parts of my eyebrow after damaging them.
The area was covered with hard bumped tissue. Also the hair on head looks far better .This method is a must
for itching also.

For better results slide with a mix of castor oil and chilli oil.The first breaks the tissue(you will feel sometimes that aliquid is being released and its not just sebum cause there is a different feeling to this) while the second brings the blood.

Do you have evidence that castor oil indeed breaks the fibrosis ?
I mean, if it does, it could be huge to use some while doing detumescence, as you point out.

I know Emu oil does.... Fibrosis is a joke to me when you have stuff like this therapy, Emu Oil, MSM, Serrapeptase, A Violet Ray, a dermaroller, etc. It's not anything I really care about Tbh. Massage can also break up fibrotic tissue after a while....

TM1026 wrote:Hello Everybody,

I've been following this forum and this thread for a while and decided to jump in.

I've been trying this therapy out for about a month now.  I usually get about 5-10 minutes in the morning and again at night. (Maybe not enough but I want to just get the habit going)

This past week I've been noticing a lot of flakiness.  This is something I really haven't ever had a problem with.  Do you guys think this is dead skin? Old sebum?
Is this a good sign that things are breaking up?  

I've also had undergone some major shedding this weekend.  More than usual.  Should I expect things to get a lot worse before they get better?

Also a little background about me:

I've been suffering from classic MPB for almost 4 years (Im in my early 20's) I'm probably like a Norwood 2/3 at this point with some thinning all over

I've always had thin, straight, greasy hair.  I always wake up with greasy hair in the morning.  I wonder if I just have a lot of accumulated sebum in my scalp which is now being released.

Also lately (past 2-3 weeks) my diet has been kind of crap and therefore my digestion has been paying the price.  I wonder if this has something to do with the flakiness and recent shedding.

I am optimistic about these manuals and this forum in general so any help or advice would be much appreciated.  Thanks!

Skin keratinization & normal shedding... Keep it up & grow all of your hair back!

Younganddetermined wrote:Hey all, I just started this therapy and I'm really impressed with how much more lax my scalp feels in general.  It really is quite amazing the difference I am experiencing.  All of those who have pushed this therapy along deserve a huge thank you.  I want to thank all of you and let you know you are truly inspirations.  I have a question though, do any of you experience a crunching phenomenon while pinching?  If so, what do you suppose it is?

I've noticed a couple of guys participating in this therapy have reported the sne thing. I've also seen reports of several people noticing a "crunchy sound" or a "pop" after dernarolling... I'd say this is fibrotic or calcified tissue being broken up.... Anyway, it's common and seems to be a good sign.

drex1999 wrote:The gross post

Pimples and bumps precede hair. I've seen it, I've experienced it on a small scale with manual methods prior to this one. New hair forcing crap out of the follicle. Never anything like I am seeing now though. All over. Is this a new phase in this exercise? Three months of priming the chambers, then three months of initial growth and then three more where everything else comes online where the remaining goo is vomited out of the follicles? No matter, for I know what each of these represent.




- Sanderson, I both move the skin every which way and also scrunch it together. Just pushing the skin into itself creates a sort of torque on itself. Go nuts.

- Young, no worries, have at it

- TM, Nizoral shampoo might alleviate some of your symptoms, available at most drugstores, found amongst the dandruff shampoos. Not for use every day. Use as directed

If all those bumps turn into new vellous, then terminal hairs, you'll have the weirdest looking hairline we've seen in a while. lolz

Fingers crossed it works, and thanks for documenting Drexx.  Even though I have no idea where that is on your head (temple I'm guessing, with some recession that creates the hairs in the bottom of the frame?), I'm glad you're documenting it.

The biggest flaw of all of our alternative methods is that we, as a community, do a piss-poor job of documentation.  Part of the reason the medical establishment has the monopoly is because they have their photos and hair counts - because that's what motivates most of us to action.

There will always be skepticism when all the evidence is anecdotal, coming from faceless and nameless people on a message board.  Call me a cynic, a dick, a non-believer, or whatever, but that's the truth unfortunately.

Personally, I don't think that this is the "cure" for hairloss. I do believe that it is therapeutic and beneficial to the area.  As they say in physical therapy circles: motion is lotion; so getting bloodflow and motion to the scalp can't hurt.

Like rofl though, I'm 100% willing to be proven wrong.

I hope the rest of you who are actively and vigorously doing this method are documenting it so that if it works, it can get the attention and validation it would deserve.  Also, it could use some better support because that original study reads like a joke.  Done in Hong Kong or no, it should have had some pictures and better evidence with claims like 100% experiencing regrwoth, including men in their 70s. If memory serves me correct, I also think it garnered the same results for men AND women, which is unlike any hair loss/regrowth study in the history of alopecia. Point being, the study that inspired this process reads a bit janky, so the better job of documenting this group of practicioners does, the better it will be for detumescence as a whole.

really wish there was a way to soften this hard shit (faster) under our scalps, it feels like huge masses of earth or something sliding around. it's so weird. just chunks of whatever that crap is. creepy

Drex, I used to use Nizoral when I first started digging into solutions for hair loss. I never did any manuals though and never had the flakiness until now. I haven't used Nizoral in like a year since my first bottle ran out but I actually just ordered some 1% yesterday. I do remember it making my hair and scalp feel good when used like twice a week.

Complexx, thanks for the optimism, I'm just not quite sure what you mean by Keratinization. Something to do with the skin hardening? Or the stuff under the skin hardening and then coming out when I do this therapy?

sizzlinghairs wrote:God, I feel like Im going to go nuts not being able to do this therapy. It really seems like the most successful manual available right now and I CANT do it because my damn fingers seem to go numb. I strongly believe its due to the anatomy of my fingers, creating some kind of nerve compression from the constant pressing of fingertips against eachother.

I really just feel plain angry as hell that my body is preventing me from, what I have deduced so far, to be the most effective manual hairloss therapy.

And the one f*ckin tool that replicates this kneeding motion is NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. GAHHHHHH, damnit, f*ckin a....   

Really feeling horribly horribly frustrated to no end right now..

Sorry, had to vent, but im on the outside looking in here.

I really want to be able to do this kneeding motion, fingertip against fingertip pinching like study.. Any reccomendations on some sort of tool available???

Thanks a million, really..

Turns out the Scalpee is not up for the task. One of the rubbery thingies has began to tear after only a few uses. Like literally 10 times or so. This device is clearly made for a gentle massage, and not to be used vigorously for 20 min. A real shame, because it worked very well... unfortunately, it's not durable at all.

Complexx wrote:

Younganddetermined wrote:Hey all, I just started this therapy and I'm really impressed with how much more lax my scalp feels in general.  It really is quite amazing the difference I am experiencing.  All of those who have pushed this therapy along deserve a huge thank you.  I want to thank all of you and let you know you are truly inspirations.  I have a question though, do any of you experience a crunching phenomenon while pinching?  If so, what do you suppose it is?

I've noticed a couple of guys participating in this therapy have reported the sne thing. I've also seen reports of several people noticing a "crunchy sound" or a "pop" after dernarolling... I'd say this is fibrotic or calcified tissue being broken up.... Anyway, it's common and seems to be a good sign.

You're giving a lot of advice on this thread and very little of your own experience, Complexx. Are you doing the massage yourself? Feels like you've got an ulterior motive when you're not providing anything from your own experience with it.

if this method produces results i dont think it is from increased blood flow, reshaping the skull, or cleaning out pores full of sebum/dead skin

if the pore was clogged with dead skin or sebum, you would have what happens with tons of people already. acne. the body constantly produces sebum and dead skin. if the pore was clogged it would just keep getting stuffed and you would see a the typical red acne bump.

if i had to guess, i would think this method is addressing fibrosis. all the research I have read talks fibrosis happens in the perifollicular sheath, the small membrane surrounding the follicle, not in the skin surrounding the follicle.

this is why dermarolling does not address fibrosis with respect to hair loss. the needles do not get to the follicle. acid peels also do not get down to the follicle. but perhaps mashing and stretching/pulling your scalp will manually help break up fibrosis in the folicle.

@bananasinpajamas

I think what we are trying to achieve is the break up of the calcium or whatever the hard substance under, and in the scalp skin is.

Get a hard object like a butter knife handle or a pen on its side and press down really hard on top of your scalp for a while. You will leave a large dent in what you probably thought was skull. I think that is what we are trying to address.

if you take a knife and do that to your forehead you will get the same result.

there has been a lot of dissection of scalps from bald cadavers. has there every been a report stating a buildup of anything inside the follicle or pore or beneath the skin?

bananasinpajamas wrote:if you take a knife and do that to your forehead you will get the same result.

there has been a lot of dissection of scalps from bald cadavers. has there every been a report stating a buildup of anything inside the follicle or pore or beneath the skin?

there is a complete difference in the way the top of my scalp and my forehead feel underneath. there is clearly some buildup of hard material

bananasinpajamas wrote:if this method produces results i dont think it is from increased blood flow, reshaping the skull, or cleaning out pores full of sebum/dead skin

if the pore was clogged with dead skin or sebum, you would have what happens with tons of people already. acne. the body constantly produces sebum and dead skin. if the pore was clogged it would just keep getting stuffed and you would see a the typical red acne bump.

if i had to guess, i would think this method is addressing fibrosis. all the research I have read talks fibrosis happens in the perifollicular sheath, the small membrane surrounding the follicle, not in the skin surrounding the follicle.  

this is why dermarolling does not address fibrosis with respect to hair loss. the needles do not get to the follicle. acid peels also do not get down to the follicle. but perhaps mashing and stretching/pulling your scalp will manually help break up fibrosis in the folicle.

NO WAY... I've seen an OVERWHELMING amount of people stop their hair loss and regrow their hair in spots where it has been slick bald for years (some 10+ years) just by dermarolling alone... This is more than likely due to creation of new vascularity and fresh blood flow being brought to the balding areas... Yea there are growth factors involved when dermarolling, but I'm just looking at the bigger picture here. They also experience the same "crunchy" noises people doing this therapy experience as well as the increased "flakiness" and less greasy scalps. This right here tells me that the universal cause of MPB is lack of blood flow... period. Restored feeling in the scalp (blood flow being restored), flakiness (skin keratinization), scalp pimple/boils (scalps normal metabolism is being restored) crunchy sounds (destruction/elimination of calcified tissue/fibrosis (?)) These are common symptoms I've noticed people experience with different types of effective manuals.


Also, how about the test subjects that received botox shots to the surrounding muscles of the scalp resulting in a completely loose scalp (elimination of scar tissue=increased scalp ROM... but that wasn't the case here at all) The Botox study also did NOT address the balding/fibrotic areas, yet everyone's hair loss stopped, the scalp's ROM (Range of Motion) was restored, and most of the test subjects regrew a good amount of hair. Similar results were produced in the German scalp tension reliever study.

One more thing though... There was this one guy from another forum that experienced full regrowth of his hair line... The man was balding for like 7 years & all he did was dermaroll and take like 2000 mg of MSM religiously and he achieved full hair line/temple regrowth. He is now using the violet ray to give the "new hairs" a chance to grow out and match up with the rest. It's also worth noting that he had an EXTREMELY positive mindset, something a lot of people on here lack.

So just to sum things up.... Lack of blood flow/ overproduction of DHT/decreased estradiol was the cause of this "syndrome" and reversing it via restoring bloodflow should be enough for some, depending on how long they've been bald/losing hair. If you've been bald for a WHILE then you may need to take some more drastic measures such as dermarolling to restore all of the dead vascularity and kick start some growth factors, taking some Serrapeptase or MSM and maybe apply some Emu Oil from time to time to eliminate fibrosis, and definitely doing this method to restore the scalps normal functions.... Loose Scalp= Normal functioning scalp.

PS: You don't necessarily have to produce acne in parts where the pores/follicles are clogged with Debris/sebum/dirt etc. Beauticians squuese gunk out of people's pores/follicles all of the time without the clients having noticeable acne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UcmfSCs-CM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comedo

nzbalda wrote:@bananasinpajamas

I think what we are trying to achieve is the break up of the calcium or whatever the hard substance under, and in the scalp skin is.

Get a hard object like a butter knife handle or a pen on its side and press down really hard on top of your scalp for a while. You will leave a large dent in what you probably thought was skull. I think that is what we are trying to address.

Yea, that's why in some ADVANCED cases you will see a "swollen dome shaped skull" but this is not due to some "mutation" or "expansion" that some people talk about, lol. Those theories are completely ridiculous.

Joey Ramone wrote:

Complexx wrote:

Younganddetermined wrote:Hey all, I just started this therapy and I'm really impressed with how much more lax my scalp feels in general.  It really is quite amazing the difference I am experiencing.  All of those who have pushed this therapy along deserve a huge thank you.  I want to thank all of you and let you know you are truly inspirations.  I have a question though, do any of you experience a crunching phenomenon while pinching?  If so, what do you suppose it is?

I've noticed a couple of guys participating in this therapy have reported the sne thing. I've also seen reports of several people noticing a "crunchy sound" or a "pop" after dernarolling... I'd say this is fibrotic or calcified tissue being broken up.... Anyway, it's common and seems to be a good sign.

You're giving a lot of advice on this thread and very little of your own experience, Complexx. Are you doing the massage yourself? Feels like you've got an ulterior motive when you're not providing anything from your own experience with it.

You caught me.... I'm selling a product. Here it is... buy it.

Couldn't edit my last post... But here is an enlarged version of the Comedo video.

Complexx wrote:
NO WAY... I've seen an OVERWHELMING amount of people stop their hair loss and regrow their hair in spots where it has been slick bald for years (some 10+ years) just by dermarolling alone... This is more than likely due to creation of new vascularity and fresh blood flow being brought to the balding areas... Yea there are growth factors involved when dermarolling, but I'm just looking at the bigger picture here. They also experience the same "crunchy" noises people doing this therapy experience as well as the increased "flakiness" and less greasy scalps. This right here tells me that the universal cause of MPB is lack of blood flow... period. Restored feeling in the scalp (blood flow being restored), flakiness (skin keratinization), scalp pimple/boils (scalps normal metabolism is being restored) crunchy sounds (destruction/elimination of calcified tissue/fibrosis (?)) These are common symptoms I've noticed people experience with different types of effective manuals.

complex. not saying dermarolling doesnt work. i am doing it myself. im just saying dermarolling doesnt work due to  reducing/removing fibrosis.

if blood flow was the rpoblem then why does transplanted hair have no problem growing in balding areas. and why does balding hair transplanted to non balding areas continue to die? ive never seen an answer to this question.

regarding comedomes--if it has not been that long then yes you will have a whitehead but if it has been building up for years and years you will definitely see some sort of bump

What's your regimen?

Edit: @Complexx

Complexx

Do you by chance know the regimen of the german guy who dermarolled? Like what length of needle and how often he did it? Any information would be great

Currently i do it twice a week. Using 1.5 mm and apply copper peptides after

bananasinpajamas wrote:

Complexx wrote:
NO WAY... I've seen an OVERWHELMING amount of people stop their hair loss and regrow their hair in spots where it has been slick bald for years (some 10+ years) just by dermarolling alone... This is more than likely due to creation of new vascularity and fresh blood flow being brought to the balding areas... Yea there are growth factors involved when dermarolling, but I'm just looking at the bigger picture here. They also experience the same "crunchy" noises people doing this therapy experience as well as the increased "flakiness" and less greasy scalps. This right here tells me that the universal cause of MPB is lack of blood flow... period. Restored feeling in the scalp (blood flow being restored), flakiness (skin keratinization), scalp pimple/boils (scalps normal metabolism is being restored) crunchy sounds (destruction/elimination of calcified tissue/fibrosis (?)) These are common symptoms I've noticed people experience with different types of effective manuals.

complex. not saying dermarolling doesnt work. i am doing it myself. im just saying dermarolling doesnt work due to  reducing/removing fibrosis.

if blood flow was the rpoblem then why does transplanted hair have no problem growing in balding areas. and why does balding hair transplanted to non balding areas continue to die? ive never seen an answer to this question.

regarding comedomes--if it has not been that long then yes you will have a whitehead but if it has been building up for years and years you will definitely see some sort of bump

First question: They don't.... most transplants go bad after a while if you don't take care of it... Why do you think good HT surgeons prescribe FIN for life after performing a HT on their patients.

Second question: Something is need to activate these dormant follicles. You dermaroll or use a violet ray on those dormant follicles and you've got yourself a host of normal hair follicles. Stem cells need to be reactivated.

To add on to the first question, here is something you may find very interesting... this is most likely why transplanted hair follicles last a while before dying out on you, unless you take care of them of course. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/269700.php

Here are some questions for your... Why are the hairs on the sides and back of our heads not affected in the vast majority of people with MPB? Why were such good results produced in both the Botox study and German study when they didn't even address fibrosis? Why do most manuals that draw blood to the scalp work for the vast majority of people? How come inversion therapy and the violet ray thicken up the hair that people have managed to retain? Why are fully functional follicles that were transplanted to the forearm (which is a borderline Hypoxic area by the way) not able to grow? My answer? Tight scalp => lack of blood flow => Hypoxia => Fucked up scalp metabolism & DHT is then overproduced causing the DHT/Estradiol ratio to screw up => DHT starts to do it's dirty work. How to reverse this? Firstly, restore blood flow. Secondly, ACTIVATE the dormant follicles. Just my 2c.