Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I've been doing this method for about 2 months now, though there was a period of about a week where I was on a family vacation and didnt do it as I was constantly around other people.

So far I'm still shedding pretty hard and can't tell if things are getting worse or better. One thing I do know is that my seborrheic dermatitis is still pretty damn bad. If I take a brush and brush my scalp after waiting a few days its an absolute blizzard of dandruffy sebum flakes that come off in clouds. Its crazy. Within a few days this layer of sebum or dead skin has rebuilt itself back to full power again.

I think maybe I'm just producing too much sebum for this dutumescence therapy to have proper effect. My scalp is really loose now but dislodging sebum may not be doing me that much good when my body is producing more this fast. I'm mainly a diffuse thinner with my recession probably not being more than about a NW2 or so. I used to have incredibly thick hair until about age 25. Now I'm actually diffuse all over. I'm not sure many people even realize I'm balding since the thinning is nearly all over my head rather than just on top so there isnt really any distinct lines of contrast in the horseshoe shape like most balding guys get.

I suspect I have gut problems that probably need to be healed. In all likelihood I need to get rid of this sebhorrheic dermatitis for this to work for me. Otherwise my scalp is just gonna continue to produce massive amounts of oil every day.

This method no doubt seems to be working great for you drex, but if I'm not mistaken you're 40 years old and still have a pretty good head of hair other than the temples being receded, so I'm not sure you qualify as a particularly aggressive case of MPB.

It's too early to say if this is gonna work for me or not but I'm not super enthusiastic about it since the dermatitis problem is still there for me. I don't see how I can grow back much hair when my head becomes an oil slick every day.

Joey Ramone wrote:Sorry to dampen the mood but after 3 months on this I'm not seeing much benefit from this thing other than a more malleable scalp. The scalp pain's pretty well gone, but my temples have gotten worse and my hair's looking pretty crap in general. Sorry to be a downer.

I wouldn't loose hope after 3 months. If you understand the hair cycle its going to take longer to see change that is visible to the naked eye. The study suggested this also.

I would also consider diet and environment as a big part of the equation.

Again.... internals have to be in order first.

IMO it's like going to the gym to do powerlifting and eating no protein. It isn't going to work. Or trying to be a long distance runner without drinking plenty of water. the body is capable of amazing things but only if the right conditions are established.

Growdamnit wrote:You have to wonder after the study claimed 100% of people grew hair.

have you been doing it over a year?

Slimnuts wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster here. I've been doing this method for about 2 months now, though there was a period of about a week where I was on a family vacation and didnt do it as I was constantly around other people.

So far I'm still shedding pretty hard and can't tell if things are getting worse or better. One thing I do know is that my seborrheic dermatitis is still pretty damn bad. If I take a brush and brush my scalp after waiting a few days its an absolute blizzard of dandruffy sebum flakes that come off in clouds. Its crazy. Within a few days this layer of sebum or dead skin has rebuilt itself back to full power again.

I think maybe I'm just producing too much sebum for this dutumescence therapy to have proper effect. My scalp is really loose now but dislodging sebum may not be doing me that much good when my body is producing more this fast. I'm mainly a diffuse thinner with my recession probably not being more than about a NW2 or so. I used to have incredibly thick hair until about age 25. Now I'm actually diffuse all over. I'm not sure many people even realize I'm balding since the thinning is nearly all over my head rather than just on top so there isnt really any distinct lines of contrast in the horseshoe shape like most balding guys get.

I suspect I have gut problems that probably need to be healed. In all likelihood I need to get rid of this sebhorrheic dermatitis for this to work for me. Otherwise my scalp is just gonna continue to produce massive amounts of oil every day.

This method no doubt seems to be working great for you drex, but if I'm not mistaken you're 40 years old and still have a pretty good head of hair other than the temples being receded, so I'm not sure you qualify as a particularly aggressive case of MPB.

It's too early to say if this is gonna work for me or not but I'm not super enthusiastic about it since the dermatitis problem is still there for me. I don't see how I can grow back much hair when my head becomes an oil slick every day.

if you're losing hair ALL over your head and not just mpb zone's (temples, crown) then it sounds like something else is wrong. can't thyroid issues cause hairloss all over?

Joey Ramone wrote:Sorry to dampen the mood but after 3 months on this I'm not seeing much benefit from this thing other than a more malleable scalp. The scalp pain's pretty well gone, but my temples have gotten worse and my hair's looking pretty crap in general. Sorry to be a downer.

It's normal to shed during this time of your treatment... A more malleable scalp is the first step.... It takes 1-4 months for your hair follicles to cycle, so you can't possibly judge this therapy until you hit AT LEAST the 6-12 month mark.

Duketronix wrote:Well we already knew that hairloss happened for a variety of reasons and that for regrowth the body needs to be in an a state to ahve surpluses to repair and grow the new follicles.  

It's not surprising really.   I've always maintained that manual methods won't work if you don't have your internals figured out first.  Who know there could be a food allergy you don't know about.  

Here's an anecdotal example.   A girl I work with is persian and has the THICKEST black hair.  She was thinning like crazy and almost getting full on bald patches last year.    Turned out she had developed an allergy to several foods.  After she got tested and found out she stopped eating them and now a year later?  The hair is back to thick and full.

I seriously doubt manual methods would have helped her in this situation.

Food allergies have nothing to do with male patterned baldness though... & if it did wouldn't It be more plausible for females to experience FPB sometimes in their lives other than when pregnant/after giving birth and while undergoing menopause? Just doesn't add up at all bro.

drex1999 wrote:My new hair started to grow in beginning at the 2 1/2 to 3 month mark and was only visible with a camera after taking a pic and zooming in. It only became noticeable around month 4 and the wow factor in month 5.

Pretty funny after about a dozen people claim results, one person prematurely thinks it might not be working and another immediately thinks his hopes are dashed.

I was thinking the same exact thing... A lot of people start speculating and things start to get way off topic. Some of these new guys definitely need to read older posts... Manuals are the answer... Diet is secondary but is still necessary to bounce back from the "damage" that has been done. IMO at least.

Duketronix wrote:Again.... internals have to be in order first.

IMO it's like going to the gym to do powerlifting and eating no protein.  It isn't going to work.  Or trying to be a long distance runner without drinking plenty of water.  the body is capable of amazing things but only if the right conditions are established.

This makes total sense.... ^ This is why I'm going to add stuff like MSM to my diet.

Cheers for the responses. I'm not gonna stop doing the detumescence massage, but I am going to make two changes to the way I do it:

1. Instead of the 20 minutes morning and night thing that gets messed up whenever I have something on or have a girl over or whatever, I'm gonna set a 45 minute timer in the morning and start it counting down whenever I have time to do the massage. That way I can spread the load across the day so it doesn't rely on me setting aside 20 minutes to get it done, it's not such a drag and it also means that I'm allowing better flow throughout the day rather than just morning and night.

2. Push lighter when I'm massaging. Most of the time I'm sitting there with cramped arms and numb fingers because I'm pushing so damn hard. I've been doing a slow, hard kneading style of massage which I'm now gonna mix up with some softer, faster massaging. Seemed to work out alright tonight and gave my arms a rest. Kinda basing it on what Drex was talking about in one of his earlier posts, doing it with high intensity in one spot than moving to the next. See how we go.

Thoughts?

Joey Ramone wrote:Cheers for the responses. I'm not gonna stop doing the detumescence massage, but I am going to make two changes to the way I do it:

1. Instead of the 20 minutes morning and night thing that gets messed up whenever I have something on or have a girl over or whatever, I'm gonna set a 45 minute timer in the morning and start it counting down whenever I have time to do the massage. That way I can spread the load across the day so it doesn't rely on me setting aside 20 minutes to get it done, it's not such a drag and it also means that I'm allowing better flow throughout the day rather than just morning and night.

2. Push lighter when I'm massaging. Most of the time I'm sitting there with cramped arms and numb fingers because I'm pushing so damn hard. I've been doing a slow, hard kneading style of massage which I'm now gonna mix up with some softer, faster massaging. Seemed to work out alright tonight and gave my arms a rest. Kinda basing it on what Drex was talking about in one of his earlier posts, doing it with high intensity in one spot than moving to the next. See how we go.

Thoughts?

add a boar brush

In my example about the girl I wasn't meaning that she had MPB or that she should do manuals.

I'm just pointing out that if somebody who has naturally incredibly thick hair (no MPB etc) can lose it as a result of not properly caring for their internal environment (eating foods they're allergic too, which causes inflammation etc.. etc..) then people with even more factors working against them are unlikely to find success if their internal environment is working against them aswell.

Best to stack the card in our favor.

I could just see someone new to this site seeing this thread, trying DT or other manuals and nothing else and then proclaiming its bunk when really there could be other factors at play they haven't explored.

The internals obviously have huge benefits in other areas of life as well. So you are crazy if you aren't doing it IMO.

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:

add a boar brush

Yeah I use one of those already.

Regimen is 20 minutes morning and night detumescence massage, 3 minutes at night brushing and I wash my hair with peppermint soap. I also have one of slowmoe's straps which I use occasionally.

Seems like joey is evidence of manuals not being the 100% solution (with the caveat that it's still early).

I'd be interested to see what happens if continues the manuals with no other changes.

This was a university study. There was no money to be made, nothing to be sold. No reason to fudge results. They concluded that all 100 participants of all ages, even in their 70's and 80's regrew their hair and it was only those above the 70's that only regrew 90%, everyone else was better.

There are probably a lot of things going on that are not known, such as we noticed the return of the fatty layer beneath the skin but it is simplified enough that if you are kneading your scalp with firm pressure enough to ooze oil and grease, you have also triggered unknown events that will result in re-growing your hair. If it worked for 100 other people, it's probably going to work for you. It was a 10 month study, not a 3 month study

Like I said, I'll keep doing them and let you know how things are going in another month or two. Am disappointed to have lost ground however.

Use a camera under your bathroom mirror lights from about 1 inch away. click off 10 pics, you'll probably get a real clear one in the bunch. Put it on your computer and zoom in. It will tell you far more than your eyes will. In fact, it will precede them by at least a month.

Although it comes in all over, your biggest advancements will come closest to your current hairline, filling in 1/4 inch at a time. That's where to look

drex1999 wrote:Use a camera under your bathroom mirror lights from about 1 inch away. click off 10 pics, you'll probably get a real clear one in the bunch. Put it on your computer and zoom in. It will tell you far more than your eyes will. In fact, it will precede them by at least a month.

Although it comes in all over, your biggest advancements will come closest to your current hairline, filling in 1/4 inch at a time. That's where to look

I believe this is what really screws with me the most. I never want to take pictures because I want no record of this happening and I just hate to look at it. Whenever I examine my temples, I always think the smaller hairs are miniaturizing hairs and my bald spots get worse. I can't tell if it's regrowth or dying hairs.

stresssucks wrote:Seems like joey is evidence of manuals not being the 100% solution (with the caveat that it's still early).

I'd be interested to see what happens if continues the manuals with no other changes.

Don't stress it man... Like I previously said before, follicles take 1-4 months to cycle... You honestly cannot judge any LEGITIMATE mpb treatment after only 3 months.

Duketronix wrote:In my example about the girl I wasn't meaning that she had MPB or that she should do manuals.

I'm just pointing out that if somebody who has naturally incredibly thick hair  (no MPB etc) can lose it as a result of not properly caring for their internal environment (eating foods they're allergic too, which causes inflammation etc.. etc..) then people with even more factors working against them are unlikely to find success if their internal environment is working against them aswell.  

Best to stack the card in our favor.

I could just see someone new to this site seeing this thread, trying DT or other manuals and nothing else and then proclaiming its bunk when really there could be other factors at play they haven't explored.

Oh yea man.... For sure. I agree with that 100%. Everyone should have a great diet to begin with anyway.

Joey Ramone wrote:

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:

add a boar brush

Yeah I use one of those already.

Regimen is 20 minutes morning and night detumescence massage, 3 minutes at night brushing and I wash my hair with peppermint soap. I also have one of slowmoe's straps which I use occasionally.

Joey, a scalp without MPB has blood flowing through it all of the time... Wearing the strap occasionally just doesn't cut it man... You have to try & keep that scalp completely loose at all times in order for your follicles to receive enough nourishment to grow nice and healthy.

Try to incorporate the scalp scrunches with the detumescence therapy & just have patience man... It'll work out for you.

Growdamnit wrote:
I believe this is what really screws with me the most. I never want to take pictures because I want no record of this happening and I just hate to look at it. Whenever I examine my temples, I always think the smaller hairs are miniaturizing hairs and my bald spots get worse. I can't tell if it's regrowth or dying hairs.

You take them a few weeks apart and you can watch progress when comparing. You actually see groups of hairs become thicker and longer. It becomes exciting to do, not something to dread

This is how it works. This is from tonight, filling in from the back towards the front. See the thin hairs advancing in front? Remember I said they mostly come in very thin and terminal or as vellus hairs that pigment after a while leaving a frosted tip? Those thin hairs thicken up after a month. Look at the picture. There are rings. Inner circle: bald area. Next circle: advancing thin terminal hairs. Next circle of about 1 inch thickness is the new hairs I've grown the past 2 1/2 months which came after the 3 month start up phase. Then the far outer circle is previous hair. You can see it all clearly if you look. You can even see thin hairs in the 1 inch ring of new growth as it continues to fill in.



Also from the same pic, zoomed in again, an example of vellus hair turning terminal/frosted tip. Middle of the pic. Two at the top just right of center. One on the left at about 10 o'clock.  If you have vellus hairs going long, this will happen. I can't see this with my eyes. This is why you use a camera. I will only see this in the mirror over a month from now

drex1999 wrote:This is how it works. This is from tonight, filling in from the back towards the front. See the thin hairs advancing in front? Remember I said they mostly come in very thin and terminal or as vellus hairs that pigment after a while leaving a frosted tip? Those thin hairs thicken up after a month. Look at the picture. There are rings. Inner circle: bald area. Next circle: advancing thin terminal hairs. Next circle of about 1 inch thickness is the new hairs I've grown the past 2 1/2 months which came after the 3 month start up phase. Then the far outer circle is previous hair. You can see it all clearly if you look. You can even see thin hairs in the 1 inch ring of new growth as it continues to fill in.



Also from the same pic, zoomed in again, an example of vellus hair turning terminal/frosted tip. Middle of the pic. Two at the top just right of center. One on the left at about 10 o'clock.  If you have vellus hairs going long, this will happen. I can't see this with my eyes. This is why you use a camera. I will only see this in the mirror over a month from now

Can you take a picture of your whole temple area like you used to before? I can't tell where that spot is on your head... I remember seeing a redish/burgundy birthmark on your head around the temple area & none of your new pics show them since they're very zoomed in... Thanks if you can.