Hormone Test Came Back With Results That Seemed To Confirm My Suspicions

MikeBison wrote:Have you tried avoiding masturbation and porn? Cut to once a week or every 8-10 days, doing this brought back my morning erections.

anthonyspencer54 wrote:My thread has lived long enough to become a masturbation thread. It was a good day.

Anthony, Mike is probably recalling the study which found that T levels peaked around day 7 of no sex or masturbation. Definitely worth discovering the truth of that first hand. Even in a relationship, it's doable sometimes under the pretext of quality vs quantity  

Xenon wrote:

MikeBison wrote:Have you tried avoiding masturbation and porn? Cut to once a week or every 8-10 days, doing this brought back my morning erections.

I agree with this. Jerking off too much causes T to be converted into DHT. DHT seems to promote hot flashes, similar to that experienced by post menopausal women with low estrogen (postmenopausal women subject to hot flashes also seem to experience hairloss). I know, without doubt, that these extremely hot flashes to the temples during masturbation caused my hairline to recede over the years. As also previously mentioned, when I abstained twice, some temple hairs began to grow back after several months, so this cannot be coincidence. From what I've so far gathered, a surge in DHT causes a huge increase in body heat -- just like those experienced by steroid users.

I receive regular emails from guys who responded to a thread i created regarding the connection between masturbating and hairloss. Here's a recent one from a guy who says that he has experienced some regrowth since quitting:

"I read your story on a blog about how you quit masturbating and your hair grew back. Well I believe what you wrote and I have done the same thing. I have also seen little fuzzy/transparent hairs sprouting up where I use to be completely bald. I just want to know if these hair will eventually turn back into normal hairs"

But the level of regrowth success through abstinence was quite limited. When I saw temple hairs regrowing via this method, I really believed that all follicles would eventually regenerate and produce new terminal hair, but I started shitting myself in case I started to resemble a Eunuch, or developed prostate problems, so decided it just wasn't worth continuing.

Thanks for posting this. I've been dealing with Fin side effects and actually have started getting what feels like hot flashes lately. I will start feeling normal, my libido will start to kick in, then all of a sudden I will start feeling very hot, then I will crash down to a baseline crappy. Maybe my DHT is starting to kick in.

@anthony very interesting about the T. I too have found that when my T has increased, my hair loss seems to stop. i know where my T is at because of the fin side effects i've had. when i have low T, i will start feeling very emotional, my voice will be higher pitched, and i will just feel like a bitch. however, it switches when my T is up.. I will have better intent in life, my voice will be deep, and I will not be so emotional. I forget if you mentioned this, but have you ever taken finasteride at some point? If so.. I'll PM you some ground breaking info I've run into lately about getting over the damaging side effects..

Rugrats, I know. I was just giving them a hard time haha. I have come across that information before, but I saw conflicting evidence. Rather, it was pretty conclusive that T rises from abstaining, however, the conflicts are on how much it rises. Based on what I've seen before, the rise in T kind of plateaus and then drops back down to baseline after ejaculation. I mean, I can't practically tell you I'm going to be abstaining for weeks at a time for a temporary increase in T. I just don't see it as the best solution for me at this point and I really need to figure out the underlying issues so I can at least establish a normal, healthy baseline. That said, I do think its doable to go for a week in between each happy ending. I have experienced that feeling...the greater sense of dominance, clear mindedness, clear purpose. I love it, I just want it on a permanent basis ha.

Sanderson, nope never took Fin. Luckily I came across some good info early on that made me steer clear of it, and I'm glad for that. I always valued my dick more than my hair. But unfortunately I'm losing both  . No, my erection quality is still there, its just it seems to have lost sensation and its more difficult to reach orgasm. In all honest, the thing I miss most about having normal T levels was the aggression. I don't mean that kind of aggression like I'm going out to pick a fight, but just that sense of I don't have to put up with shit. I find I'm much more tolerant of things I probably wouldn't have put up with before, more easy going, and it bothers me. I haven't noticed being more emotional in the sense that I cry during a movie, but I do get a lot more "down" days now, have trouble finding motivation, have trouble feeling solid in my intent and goals, and just in general don't assert myself like I used to. I want that back more than anything.

Anthony,

Obviously i am not an medical expert, but if you reduce your estrogen levels...which are very high...maybe your T levels will raise to normal levels. You can try some good quality DIM products if you want natural route. If you want chemical route you can try very low dose of Arimidex. Be careful with Arimidex because it can lower Estrogen too much, then you will have more problems than now.

I have similar problems, my testosterone is 360-390, libido is zero, prostatitis, only in the morning i can achieve erection without physical stimulation...

Hey NoName,

Yeah I agree with you, and actually, I'm expecting the doctor to agree. I think the hormones definitely suggest an aromatase problem. I really wish I knew where DHT was at. But yes, I think if I get on something like a low dose arimidex and get the estrogen levels down, total testosterone should increase. I have tried the DIM route before without much benefit. Of course, I didn't get tested at that point but without knowing the numbers, I can say the DIM didn't do anything to relieve my estrogen symptoms.

I think a cycle on arimidex would be pretty revealing. If the e levels don't come down, well then I'd be thinking tumor, especially if the t levels don't budge.
At the very least it should help eliminate the round belly and maybe some of that visceral fat and help me get back to a normal baseline of hormone levels so I can just count on a healthy lifestyle keeping them in check. I think that is one of the more frustrating things right now (besides the psychological effects)...the fact I'm working harder in the gym than I ever have and eating a normal amount of calories. I'm not eating severely under my caloric needs (which is probably worth a try) but certainly not over. The fat has melted off every other area of my body. Everything leaned out, except a round pregnant looking belly and gyno. It looks really strange, as you might imagine. Skinny everywhere and then a big spare tire. If it weren't for the muscles and bald head, I would really look like pregnant chick. So ready for that to be overwith.

Hey Anthony,
I'm not arrogant enough to pretend I know what your exact condition is being caused by or how to fix it, but I thought I'd share my personal experience with you.

FWIW I was on fin for a little bit and now that I'm off, my libido and morning erections are stronger. For me, in addition to time being off fin, I am taking the IH top six and most of the ancillary supplements on the IH regimen page.

There are 3 other things I use that may or may not be contributing to my increased T and libido. They are:
broken cell wall chlorella (usually one meal a day)
500mg nettle root extract
1500mg bovine colostrum at night (from surthrival)

I know some people think nettle should have the opposite effect, but it hasn't killed my libido. I'm 35 and some days the morning wood I get is stronger than when I was in my twenties.

Like I said, it's just my experience, but if you're already taking the IH supplements it might be worth looking into colostrum or nettle. I doubt the chlorella is raising my T, but it could be?

Good luck, and don't obsess over it too much. I've found things that are obsessed over usually become worse or more distracting.

Hi J,

Agree completely on that last point.

Those suggestions are interesting and I may go ahead and try them out. I've not had the best experience with chlorella, however, I have never really given either colostrum or nettle a try.

I've heard testimonies that nettle boosts the free fraction of testosterone, so there may be something there. I think colostrum is all around a great supplement, regardless of whether it benefits my T or not.

Glad to hear you've gotten your issues in order.

Saw the endocrinologist for the follow-up appointment this afternoon. I'll spare his name, but he's supposedly one of the better specialists in the state where I live. Needless to say, I'm growing very inpatient and disappointed with the so-called "specialists" anymore. If you check out the original post, you'll have an idea where my hormones were at: very low testosterone (230, Free Fraction: 56), estrogen (184), low-normal FSH/LH.

The doctor literally attributed it to my weight. Yes, at 25, my testosterone is this low and estrogen this high due to weight. And by weight, I pointed out the fact that my weight is almost totally concentrated in the gut and chest, hallmark estrogen fat distribution. And this weight has seemed invulnerable to my weight loss efforts. Despite this testimony on my part, he still insisted that there isn't a problem with the testosterone and that I should only be focused on free fraction, which is still at the lower end of these silly statistical ranges. Get this, he recommended ACAI BERRY.  An endocrine specialist making probably at least $400,000 grand annually saw these test results and recommended acai berry. What the actual fuck. He also seemed to not care that the gonadotropins weren't responding to the low testosterone (suggesting secondary hypogonadism), he also refused to consider the fact that estrogen shouldn't technically be that high with secondary hypogonadism and that this is suggestive of a functional tumor. He also refused to acknowledge the fact that despite an increase in T3 to the higher end of the range (from Armour), testosterone actually fell. To me this is a red flag, given that the boost in thyroid (and the already high E) should be spiking SHBG and thus, raising total serum test.

Of course, there is the possibility that despite proper thyroid function, SHBG is still quite low so that free T is largely aromatizing to estrogen, leaving a false-low free T. The estrogen itself could be inhibiting the FSH/LH, leaving me in this high estrogen hole, so to speak. This is possible, but the aromatase inhibitor should weed this out if thats the case.

Well now that my rant is over. I argued with the guy about treating both the test and the estrogen. Ultimately I was able to CONVINCE him to prescribe anastrozole to lower the estrogen. [He acted as if he'd never heard of the drug, and literally had to Google it for the proper dose; he prescribed me 1mg/daily which is the dose used to treat breast cancer in WOMEN; men require much less, so his ignorance could have really messed me up more!] Its bad that it required me being a nerd about this to spot his bullshit. Someone in my position, for whom this wasn't the case, would literally have walked out of that office with no help. This is just so unacceptable from someone calling themselves a medical doctor.

My thinking with this is that I should quickly be able to lower the high estrogen, eliminate some of this stubborn mid-section fat, recover test levels to normal and let lifestyle take its course after treatment. If anything, if estrogen does not decrease appropriately and test doesn't increase, then it should be an undeniable signal that there is a HUGE problem with the HPG axis and probably a tumor as the cause. So in three months I'll update again with how the arimidex has worked out and with new labs. Hope its helpful, or at the very least interesting, for anybody having these issues.

hey as long as you're going to doctors, why not check if you have heavy metals? You shouldn't have these problems at such young age, obviously something else is at play. Also, may I ask how much do you weigh and where are you getting your armour?

If you are able to switch doctors, Dr Crisler who runs the All Things Male website is supposed to be good and is in the Michigan area. His forum is quite interesting for TRT stuff, though last I looked (Couple of years) it was a little heavy on micromanaging exogenous hormones and not looking at underlying isses (Toxicity etc.).

Anthony,

I honestly think trying a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet if you're still lifting heavy will help you here. I'm basically settling into that with Intermittent Fasting and using Bulletproof Coffee as my morning meal and I'm dropping pants sizes while building muscle. It's also changing the way I feel. I'm more centered with my thought process and emotions. It's like I came off a drug.

I know you do your research and I'm just offering what's working well for me. 5.5 days a week I go keto with grass fed meats, fish, organic eggs plus green veggies as my main diet. Then 1.5 days a week I carb up and avoid gluten on those days. My workouts haven't suffered and the fat is falling off my mid-section finally. The bulletproof coffee is changing my skin, my appetite level and my energy. I do buy the products direct from Asprey's site as I tried it with other coffee and got headaches. His coffee doesn't hit me that way. I'm using his MCT Oil and unsalted Kerrygold.

I'm seeing that my body is going from beefy/muscly with no definition to defined now. I have 2 trainers at the gym I'm going to doing the same routine I'm on as they can see the difference in my torso.

I'd give it some thought. I'm eating meat and veggies with high quality fats (nuts, avocados, Kerrygold, MCT Oil) like a madman all week and the carb up period allows cheats.

It's something to think about since I feel like we both share a lot of common physical issues.

Thanks for the input guys.

Moby, its a possibility. Personally I think its probably some kind of functional tumor, perhaps in the Sertoli cells. I've read several case studies on men and animals whose symptoms seem to fit my own and the cause was either a sertoli or adrenal adenoma. A pituitary lesion could also be responsible but my other pituitary hormone levels don't suggest that, and my visual field acuity is just fine, also no headaches. As of right now, I'm about 210 lbs, probably about 30 lbs. over where I feel and look my best at 5'10". Its all in my gut too. I've been a bit overweight before and that is how I can tell there is a difference this time. I actually weighed this much for about a year during highschool and didn't look anything like this. The fat was loose and felt like just a normal chubby stomach. Right now, my stomach is distended and round similar to what a pregnant (or very bloated) stomach would look like. Its also hard. Its like a beer gut, despite the fact I don't drink much beer.

Delusional, thank you for the tip. I'm probably going to look him up. If he's at all close to me, I'll see if I can get an appointment. I'd imagine the wait for new patients is probably pretty long.

Hadrion, good advice. For right now, I am going to try a carb cycling routine. I don't think I'm ready to just go straight keto. I'll be keeping carbs pretty low for a few days at a time followed by a carb up day, which will always coincide with a heavy work day. The workout is going to stay the same, alternating heavy low rep weeks with an 8-10 rep week, save the squat which I always keep very heavy. I'm going to aim to continue lowering calories incrementally until I see this weight budge, hopefully with the arimidex giving me a bit of a push in that regard. I mean, at some point the weight will have to go if cals get low enough, its just finding that balance where I can still perform the exercise and also feel healthy. I don't think I should have to eat 800 cals a day to lose weight (especially not with the activity level), but that's what the doc seems to think.

I might give the bulletproof coffee a try. Overall though, I'm very skeptical of the bulletproof exec guy. I can remember seeing a blog post of his where he posted how he was keeping all of this muscle mass over a period of months without exercising at all. It was just very deceiving because he didn't want to include the part where he was (and has been for a very long time) on arimidex and testosterone replacement. When someone commented on that, he didn't respond haha. I do think some of his information on mycotoxins (hence the butter in the coffee) is spot on.

It's a very realistic possibility. It explains almost everything regarding MPB. A simple overuse of antibiotics and vaccines will make you more prone to heavy metals and once that happens, a number of conditions will arise - infections, thyroid problems, auto immune problems, etc and you will be playing whack a mole trying to control all these issues and undergoing extreme diets when all that's needed was 6 months worth of chelation.
One microscopic drop of mercury is probably more harmful than 1000 cheeseburgers. Look at this guy:

moby, which is the most effective form of chelation that you recommend?

>> moby, which is the most effective form of chelation that you recommend?

Cutler Protocol + DMSA is probably the most effective if you don't mind setting up the alarms and taking pills every three hours or so even at night. A lot of people seem to credit chelation as the most important thing they have done in terms of "curing" MPB. CS himself said that iodine+selenium+humic/fulvic acid made the most impact in his case and those are all chelators. Everything just seems to fit.

One quick update. I have been taking 1 mg arimidex daily for three days. I didn't expect any immediate effects, but I have actually had some.

One is that I've been irritable as all hell. Two is I've gotten some acne (I barely had any acne even during teenage years, some but not much). This may be a good sign, or may be completely incidental/inconsequential.

The interesting one is that the facial warmth/tingling has gone away. This was a daily occurrence for about 2-3 years. It was a constant. I would have periods throughout the day where my face would get very warm, not hot, but noticeably warm. It would also tingle, like a histamine tingle, like little insect bites on the cheeks, temples, above the eyebrow. For the past two days at least, I have not had one occurrence of this. Like I said prior, this occurred consistently 3-4 times daily for several years.

Is it an effect of lowering estrogen? Maybe, maybe not. But I found it interesting. Perhaps some of these cutaneous problems I've been having, including hairloss, have been the result of the poor T:E ratio. In the way I'm currently thinking about these things, absolute hormone levels are not even as important as ratios. I don't think that my testosterone being low is as important concretely, as is the fact that estrogen is so high in proportion.