Update on my Situation

Consider someone who does not suffer hairloss. Are they fixated on their hair like we are? Nope. You'll find yourself noticing things about other people's hair that no one else is even conscious of. Its because we are hyper conscious of our hair. I feel like once I because conscious of the fact my hair might be thinning, it went into overdrive. Its because I became hyper-conscious of it, started stressing immensely. I don't normally consider myself much of an esoteric type, but as far as this is concerned, it is almost as if our beliefs about what is happening bring it on even faster. We fulfill our own prophecy in some sense.

Think about it like this. Once we begin to approach hair loss like a battle, like we battling this demon called hairloss, we make an enemy out of it. How often are people successful at getting what they want when they approach something like this? Almost never. When people are financially hard up, if they have resentment and negative beliefs about money itself, they'll rarely get it. Think about the last time you had to perform in some way. If you approached it nervously, with a bad outcome in mind, you probably had that outcome. You'll notice when things come easily to people, they aren't stressing about it and it seems to come so easily without them even having to think. I mean it sounds stupid to make the comparison, but do you think Michael Jordan was constantly stressing about missing shots in all those championship games? Probably didn't even cross his mind.

It seems like a different story, but I don't think it is. We need to eliminate the stress over hairloss before we'll ever see anything work. We try every new reigmen and wake up every morning desperately looking for tiny new hairs, but one thing isn't changing, the fact we are fixated on the negativity of hairloss. If we can change the way we think of it, eliminating stress in the process, we'll stop looking at it like a battle with some opponent, and stop attracting our negative beliefs toward ourselves. I think the mind has a much greater effect on the body than anybody knows, and your beliefs about yourself influence that. Maybe if we can just be comfortable with where we are at, wherever that is, and also with where we are going, wherever that may be, and not have a concern either way, we can approach these regimens as if, "Hey if it does what its supposed to great, if not, fuck it." Instead of struggling so hard against something, work at things you feel positive about, bettering your overall health, body, career, social status, etc. Letting go of that negative fixation might free up some of your energy toward bettering every other aspect of your life, and with the lack of stress, all of these regimens might start working a lot better and your hair will follow suit.

The problem is no matter what form DHT inhibition comes in, whether it be natural or synthetic it's still DHT inhibition. I'm going to have side effects.

Not necessarily. Also all side effects aren't created equal. I have read arguments that the psychological side effects from finasteride are worse than dutasteride because it is not a dual 5alpha reductase inhibitor which allows for cascades into affecting cortisol. A lot of the natural dht inhibiting is taking out less DHT and slower than a targetted pharmaceutical, so the side effects might not be as bad (anecdotally, the japanese take shit tons of theaflavins, soy isoflavones, etc from their diet... they arent all running around with bitch tits). And there is always topical inhibition. Yeah you can get side effects from topical but it should not be as severe.

And your body tends to acclimate to side effects and they can diminish or vanish in time. On citalopram initially I had reduced sexual sensation and temporary impotence but eventually it went away to the point of prior to being on citalopram.

Life is all about trade offs. I'll take some level of sexual side effects if it means I won't lose my hair.

LawOfThelema wrote:

The problem is no matter what form DHT inhibition comes in, whether it be natural or synthetic it's still DHT inhibition. I'm going to have side effects.

Not necessarily. Also all side effects aren't created equal. I have read arguments that the psychological side effects from finasteride are worse than dutasteride because it is not a dual 5alpha reductase inhibitor which allows for cascades into affecting cortisol. A lot of the natural dht inhibiting is taking out less DHT and slower than a targetted pharmaceutical, so the side effects might not be as bad (anecdotally, the japanese take shit tons of theaflavins, soy isoflavones, etc from their diet... they arent all running around with bitch tits). And there is always topical inhibition. Yeah you can get side effects from topical but it should not be as severe.

And your body tends to acclimate to side effects and they can diminish or vanish in time. On citalopram initially I had reduced sexual sensation and temporary impotence but eventually it went away to the point of prior to being on citalopram.

Life is all about trade offs. I'll take some level of sexual side effects if it means I won't lose my hair.

In a separate survey by the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare published by the Japan Family Planning Association found that 36.1 percent of Japanese males, aged 16 to 19, had no interest in sex whatsoever -- up from a 2008 record of 17.5 percent.

In my opinion, coconut oil and progesterone could be the "safest" ways to inhibit dht.

^^ that is interesting for sure, but not relevant.

^ does it inhibit DHT? i have searched but never turned up anything conclusive. i mostly just drink coconut milk these days. can't get enough of it, really. way better tasting than cow's milk. looking into making coconut yoghurt as well. doesnt seem any of the supermarkets sell it

looking for natural dht inhibitors see also this thread at life extension forums.

http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=38&m=64596

Decro,

I know you are probably over trying diets, but have you ever tried excluding all starch? Bread, pasta, rice etc, and just replacing those carbs with fruit? People with digestive problems should probably avoid all starches, as they can be hard to digest and will reek havoc on the gut lining. Because they are not being digested properly, they also are capable of increasing bacterial endotoxin.

A high fruit/sugar diet is good for lowering cortisol and decreasing the stress response.

You may also want to try upping your salt intake as that helps with stress.

To lower DHT I would recommend 3tbsp of coconut oil daily, and I would try topical progesterone for the scalp.

I would consider using alopecin (topical caffeine) and Ketoconazole.

I have references for everything i've said ^^

LawOfThelema wrote:^^ that is interesting for sure, but not relevant.

I agree, just poking fun. I don't think it's 100% the Soy. It's a strange phenomenon though. Could also be cultural.

it's hard to say really. what counts as "interest in women?". it could be associated with shyness and social anxiety which seem to be high there, tho i had read it is expressed differently than in western nations (here more fear of being offended, there more a fear of offending). maybe the use of social networking and such increases it. i have social anxiety disorder pretty bad, and while i expend little effort in getting with women on account of it, i am still at least in principle "interested in women" tho if an outsider looked at me (my actions or outward behavior) it might not seem that way. they have some weird cultural things going on there for sure.

i have to come back to the coconut milk. do any of you drink this stuff? it's almost addictive. as soon as i started typing about it on this thread i went and got a swig of it staight from the container. could it be that my body is desiring it because it has a positive effect or can the fat content have an "addictive effect". pretty weird.

Ive tried coconut milk, its ok, the vanilla almond taste a little better, and goes well with smoothies.
Good to know coconut oil inhibits dht some as its all I cook with now, and also btw the two dht inhibitors in my sig
have had zero affect on my libido whether i take them every day or once a week.
Just as even the poison finastride doesn't kill everyones libido whos on it. I think inhibiting dht is only bad when your testosterone levelsare way low, therefore your body is probably over producing dht on purpose to keep you as manly as it can and
when you knock the dht down you end up with low T AND low dht and high estrogen and all the characteristics ppl usually get on propecia.Probably why CS says dht blockers arent so bad for younger aged ppl who still have high testosterone.
One more thing, ppl on typical hairloss forums think the more the merrier with dht inhibitors whether natural or synthetic and I believe that anything that directly alters the hormones and isnt naturally found in food should be taken in low amounts and cycled, ppl tend to take way too much betasisterol also when nature would have never provided such massive amounts daily in any location on earth...
I wouldnt be surprised if you are unnaturally lowering your dht levels with large amounts of these supplements that your body will actually try to upregulate it even more if the under lying cause of why your producing too much isnt solved, especially if you come off of whatever your taking that was keeping it down. But for ppl sensitive to lowering dht I think pyguem & pumpkin seed oil is actually a safe way to do it, which I've tried and it actually increased my libido...

LawOfThelema wrote:it's hard to say really. what counts as "interest in women?". it could be associated with shyness and social anxiety which seem to be high there, tho i had read it is expressed differently than in western nations (here more fear of being offended, there more a fear of offending). maybe the use of social networking and such increases it. i have social anxiety disorder pretty bad, and while i expend little effort in getting with women on account of it, i am still at least in principle "interested in women" tho if an outsider looked at me (my actions or outward behavior) it might not seem that way. they have some weird cultural things going on there for sure.

i have to come back to the coconut milk. do any of you drink this stuff? it's almost addictive. as soon as i started typing about it on this thread i went and got a swig of it staight from the container. could it be that my body is desiring it because it has a positive effect or can the fat content have an "addictive effect". pretty weird.

Coconut milk tastes like shit, imo, so I don't drink any and wouldn't get addicted. It tastes pleasant in a nice curry though. Coconut oil is more potent for inducing physiological changes.

I don't think fat has any addictive properties, craving fat however could be a sign of something.

Coconut milk tastes like shit, imo

DE GUSTIBUS NON EST DISPUTANDUM

abc - I've been developing headaches from drinking oj recently, despite being able to drink it and much more amounts for the past year, so i've had to drop it. Are you aware of any reasons why someone would develop this?

tooyoung wrote:abc - I've been developing headaches from drinking oj recently, despite being able to drink it and much more amounts for the past year, so i've had to drop it. Are you aware of any reasons why someone would develop this?

http://blog.friendseat.com/false-orange-juice

Ah the paleosphere lives on in this forum.....well decro just saying that things have turned around majority for me in terms of wellbeing and hair loss. I attribute this mainly to using LLLT, getting sugar metabolism back on track and getting vitamin A from liver. So much so that I have gone from a complete lack of energy to just getting home from an 80 mile cycle (I am well aware that prolonged excercise is far from ideal but I can't go to my grave without doing an ironman). I had very similar hair loss to you 6 months ago, now I might lose one or two if I have a night on the beer.

ABC - How is that topical progesterone going?

tooyoung wrote:abc - I've been developing headaches from drinking oj recently, despite being able to drink it and much more amounts for the past year, so i've had to drop it. Are you aware of any reasons why someone would develop this?

Orange juice specifically? Try switching to grape juice.

If your orange juice was the right kind, I can't think of any reason you would develop headaches.

lambyjay wrote:Ah the paleosphere lives on in this forum.....well decro just saying that things have turned around majority for me in terms of wellbeing and hair loss. I attribute this mainly to using LLLT, getting sugar metabolism back on track and getting vitamin A from liver. So much so that I have gone from a complete lack of energy to just getting home from an 80 mile cycle (I am well aware that prolonged excercise is far from ideal but I can't go to my grave without doing an ironman). I had very similar hair loss to you 6 months ago, now I might lose one or two if I have a night on the beer.

ABC - How is that topical progesterone going?

I started topical progesterone about three months ago, then I lost the bottle on a road trip so I had to order more. I have only recently just started it again so too early to tell.

I have good before pictures in case anything happens.

hey decro,

i suspect we have something similar going on. i have read your iodine posts in the past because i too was on propecia. since takign iodine, my hair loss actually accelerated and i get similar scalp feelings where you can actually feel the inflammation. does it feel like pinches on your head? that's how it feels with me, i will get literal pinches on my head, then i can go to the spot i felt it and run my hand through my hair and a hair will fall out in that spot specifically. it's like my body is attacking my hair follicles and killing them search and destroy style.

i think what's going on in my case is my body has peroxynitrite (it's when nitric oxide interacts with superoxide and creates this damaging free radical). because at one point i had this inflammation spot on my scalp that i identified as peroxynitrite through this forum.

check this website on fighting off peroxynitrite, i specifically linked to the nutrition area, but scroll up to read more about it: http://www.medicalinsider.com/cardiac3.html#pall

i'm taking tehse approaches to fighting it... tell me what you think .

High sugar intake is a common cause of headaches and migraines.

LawOfThelema wrote:High sugar intake is a common cause of headaches and migraines.

That's funny because, the literature actually suggests the most common trigger of migraines is fasting and hypoglycemia which sucrose feeding corrects.

Have you tried using lithium or cedarwood oil topically to reduce sebum?

whats the basis of using progesterone topically?

ok its for dht i guess

1) Dr. Norman Orentreich, in his article: "Biology of Scalp Hair Growth", Clinics in Plastic Surgery -- Vol. 9, No. 2, 1982:

"Local Therapy {...} Progesterone was found to be a natural and significant 5aR inhibitor when tested in vitro, in the human skin microsome system, a rich source of 5aR, and in human scalp hair follicles. When a solution of progesterone in alcohol was applied to the pubic skin of normal males, it caused an average decrease of 75.2 per cent in 5aR activity after 24 hours of treatment.

"Moreover, while less DHT is made, more dihydroprogesterone (DHP; 5a-pregnane-3,20dione) is made. DHP competes with the residual DHT for the cytosol-nuclear binding protein for a further reduction in the amount of DHT interacting with genetic material.

"Progesterone works in reducing DHT production locally by competing for the active site of 5aR and would need to be present at the active site continuously because of the reversible kinetics. Treatment lapses result in the resumption of DHT production from testosterone.

"Since progesterone only partially inhibits DHT production and since DHP only partially inhibits binding of residual DHT, local progesterone at best can only ameliorate androgenetic alopecia and not arrest it.