Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

Oh, I wanted to add one more thing;

I think it's quite important to remember the general massage part of DT, since everyone is focusing on the pinching aspect (although that is certainly the most difficult).

I start my DT sessions with a general massage all over my scalp, but very forceful, with a kind of rubbing or circular motion, making sure there is a lot of force pressing down.  I do this for maybe 2-5 minutes.  Only then do I start the pinching for about 20 minutes, and then another general massage in the same way after I'm done pinching.  I actually do more than 20 minutes per session just so I can be sure to work the massage aspect into the DT therapy.

And that new way of pinching with your nails sure does hurt!  I'm going to have to refine that technique

Hi sizzlinghairs,

This:

johndoe1225 wrote:
I start my DT sessions with a general massage all over my scalp, but very forceful, with a kind of rubbing or circular motion, making sure there is a lot of force pressing down.  I do this for maybe 2-5 minutes.  Only then do I start the pinching for about 20 minutes, and then another general massage in the same way after I'm done pinching.  I actually do more than 20 minutes per session just so I can be sure to work the massage aspect into the DT therapy.

As Jhon my massage sessions last around 30-35 minutes each. First I massage the whole scalp/head (including the forefront, behind the ears, around the neck, sideburns, high cheeks), with a kind of rubbing or circular motion, and pressing down. When I do this I can already hear the "crunch" sound. I do this for maybe 8-10 minutes.

Then I focus 10 minutes in the temples and front, pinching and pressing, pitching and pressing, moving slowly inch by inch. From there I follow up to the central part and sides (5-6 min.), and the rest goes to the crown area.

I usually finish with a general finger tapping, mostly to stretch and relax the fingers.

As a reference more/less this is how I pinch:

Hey guys

Thanks again Hole for the advice, it's very helpful

I have some good news to report; I just passed the two week mark of doing DT properly, and I can say that I am certainly shedding more than usual. Also, I have long hair, and usually after DT sessions I would bend over to flip my hair back into its normal position, and I would get a kind of sharp pain over my left temple, but that has since almost completely gone. I'm 100% certain this therapy is working for me so far, at least a little bit. And it's so early into the treatment, I'm very optimistic of the future!

For someone with an already not very oily scalp DT causes big time dry scalp.  Wow.  Started using a once a week virgin coconut oil soak for a couple hours, hasn't helped as of yet.

johndoe1225 wrote:Hey guys

Thanks again Hole for the advice, it's very helpful

I have some good news to report; I just passed the two week mark of doing DT properly, and I can say that I am certainly shedding more than usual.  Also, I have long hair, and usually after DT sessions I would bend over to flip my hair back into its normal position, and I would get a kind of sharp pain over my left temple, but that has since almost completely gone.  I'm 100% certain this therapy is working for me so far, at least a little bit.  And it's so early into the treatment, I'm very optimistic of the future!

Two weeks in you don't see anything. You can't possiby know if it's working.

Growdamnit wrote:

johndoe1225 wrote:Hey guys

Thanks again Hole for the advice, it's very helpful

I have some good news to report; I just passed the two week mark of doing DT properly, and I can say that I am certainly shedding more than usual.  Also, I have long hair, and usually after DT sessions I would bend over to flip my hair back into its normal position, and I would get a kind of sharp pain over my left temple, but that has since almost completely gone.  I'm 100% certain this therapy is working for me so far, at least a little bit.  And it's so early into the treatment, I'm very optimistic of the future!

Two weeks in you don't see anything. You can't possiby know if it's working.

Shedding is a great sign IMO.

There's nothing else I'm doing that could account for the shedding, it didn't just happen to shed so much faster as I started DT

Hole wrote:Hi sizzlinghairs,

This:

johndoe1225 wrote:
I start my DT sessions with a general massage all over my scalp, but very forceful, with a kind of rubbing or circular motion, making sure there is a lot of force pressing down.  I do this for maybe 2-5 minutes.  Only then do I start the pinching for about 20 minutes, and then another general massage in the same way after I'm done pinching.  I actually do more than 20 minutes per session just so I can be sure to work the massage aspect into the DT therapy.

As Jhon my massage sessions last around 30-35 minutes each. First I massage the whole scalp/head (including the forefront, behind the ears, around the neck, sideburns, high cheeks), with a kind of rubbing or circular motion, and pressing down. When I do this I can already hear the "crunch" sound. I do this for maybe 8-10 minutes.

Then I focus 10 minutes in the temples and front, pinching and pressing, pitching and pressing, moving slowly inch by inch. From there I follow up to the central part and sides (5-6 min.), and the rest goes to the crown area.

I usually finish with a general finger tapping, mostly to stretch and relax the fingers.

As a reference more/less this is how I pinch:

Thanks hole.

So just to clarify, are you actually able to pinch with one hand or is that just showing the style of pinch you do with both hands?

sizzlinghairs wrote:
So just to clarify, are you actually able to pinch with one hand or is that just showing the style of pinch you do with both hands?

Hi sizzlinghairs,

When I started with DT my scalp was not so flexible so, I was only able to do the pinch with one hand (as in the picture I posted) mostly on the sides of my head and some part of the crown. The rest I had to use both hands to press and make a pinch.

Right now, after all this months, I am able to pinch almost anywhere in my scalp just with one hand (exactly as in the picture), but the middle part, that is still getting loser and loser and sometimes I use both hands.

Hope that helps

Thanks.

I'm a little over 3 months and 1 week into DT and oddly enough it barely feels like my scalp has loosened up that much. I also use bian stones for a deeper pinch and go around 40-50 minutes per session. I do a pinch/stretch, like kneading, that was recommended earlier back and I really make sure I'm doing it right. I go slowly and work the whole top of the scalp, focusing around 5 minutes more on each temple so I don't know what gives. I also warm up my whole scalp for around 3-4 minutes beforehand...I mean some days things feel more loose then others but overall it doesn't feel that different then when I started. But maybe I just didn't really know how tight my scalp was to begin with.

It truly feels like I'll never get to the point of being able to pinch wjth just 1 hand..

Hi sizzlinghairs,

I see. The thing is that I've been doing the combo DT+ change in diet + regular sports /yoga/relaxation + quitting smoking (2 months now without nicotine yay!) + no shampoo, for about these 5 months. I did massage my scalp previous this time (for about 3 months) but without the diet... and I didn't manage to get the scalp as loose and for sure I was not getting the skin peel.

In short:
September/October 2014 to December 2014 - Scalp massage only (not really pinching) / Not much happening.
January 2015 to now - Scalp pinching + change in diet... / Loosen scalp, shedding, skin peel, controlled acne (this is key for me!), and slow regrowth (temples filling slowly, front line more defined, and overall better hair texture and look).

I would like to mention that I quitted Minox as well cold turkey in December, and didn't lose much hair because of that (and I have been using Minox randomly for years)

That's why I can't tell you exactly why this seems to be working for me and not for you. Why some techniques work very good, just okey, average or not at all for some people and not for others?

My idea is that the root cause that originates the inflammation and balding process may differ from person to person or region to region. I don't think the conditions of living I have here are the same you may have in your area. That would explain why no treatments (chemical or natural) works the same for everyone, only surgery, and that depends mostly on quantity and quality of the professional (but the root of the problem is not being addressed, hair surgery is just a cosmetic patch!)

In my opinion, DT alone is just creating blood flow and maybe cell regeneration/reactivation/whatever (i am not a scientist), but the change in diet is what seems to be stopping my root of inflammation. I have some reasons to believe so: the acne is finally clearing, my hair is not dry and fragile anymore, not itchiness in the scalp, better sleeping, better energy regulation along the day...

What is your root? This I can't tell, may it be intolerance to something? may it be lack of something? may it be you are being poisoned by something? Don't know... wish all this would be easier. Every time I read someone here having a tantrum from desperation, I feel your pain, I've been there too.

Good luck.

Hole wrote:Hi sizzlinghairs,

I see. The thing is that I've been doing the combo DT+ change in diet + regular sports /yoga/relaxation + quitting smoking (2 months now without nicotine yay!) + no shampoo, for about these 5 months. I did massage my scalp previous this time (for about 3 months) but without the diet... and I didn't manage to get the scalp as loose and for sure I was not getting the skin peel.

In short:
September/October 2014 to December 2014 - Scalp massage only (not really pinching) / Not much happening.
January 2015 to now - Scalp pinching + change in diet... / Loosen scalp, shedding, skin peel, controlled acne (this is key for me!), and slow regrowth (temples filling slowly, front line more defined, and overall better hair texture and look).

I would like to mention that I quitted Minox as well cold turkey in December, and didn't lose much hair because of that (and I have been using Minox randomly for years)

That's why I can't tell you exactly why this seems to be working for me and not for you. Why some techniques work very good, just okey, average or not at all for some people and not for others?

My idea is that the root cause that originates the inflammation and balding process may differ from person to person or region to region. I don't think the conditions of living I have here are the same you may have in your area. That would explain why no treatments (chemical or natural) works the same for everyone, only surgery, and that depends mostly on quantity and quality of the professional (but the root of the problem is not being addressed, hair surgery is just a cosmetic patch!)

In my opinion, DT alone is just creating blood flow and maybe cell regeneration/reactivation/whatever (i am not a scientist), but the change in diet is what seems to be stopping my root of inflammation. I have some reasons to believe so: the acne is finally clearing, my hair is not dry and fragile anymore, not itchiness in the scalp, better sleeping, better energy regulation along the day...

What is your root? This I can't tell, may it be intolerance to something? may it be lack of something? may it be you are being poisoned by something? Don't know... wish all this would be easier. Every time I read someone here having a tantrum from desperation, I feel your pain, I've been there too.

Good luck.

Hey Hole

What's your diet like?  I am also a firm believer that it plays a big part in MPB/hairloss.  I had a horrible diet before my MPB started, basically low fat high carb, and even after that, I switched to "healthy whole grains" and ended up eating an entire half of a multi-grain baguette with my dinner!  I used to eat so much bread.  Not to mention cereal...  My hair loss diet is basically gluten free, grain free and sugar free.  I eat a lot of fat, mostly from fish (omega-3's most tasty source IMO), also I try to eat a bit of coconut oil with every meal.  Lots of seeds.  I've become addicted to pumpkin seeds, it's nuts ( )  I only eat unprocessed natural food now, and can say that it has certainly helped with overall health.  Also, the scaly flaky patches I had on my scalp are completely gone (it may have been from Minoxidil use, which I also quit awhile ago, but I don't know). I thought I'd just start munching on spinach like potato chips now, when I'm at my desk I just open a bag of spinach and have at it.

I also started "knuckling" my scalp, just because it feels good, all I do is plant my knuckles on my scalp and roll them back and forth over different areas.  I don't count this towards my DT though.

johndoe1225 wrote:
Hey Hole

What's your diet like?  I am also a firm believer that it plays a big part in MPB/hairloss.  I had a horrible diet before my MPB started, basically low fat high carb, and even after that, I switched to "healthy whole grains" and ended up eating an entire half of a multi-grain baguette with my dinner!  I used to eat so much bread.  Not to mention cereal...  My hair loss diet is basically gluten free, grain free and sugar free.  I eat a lot of fat, mostly from fish (omega-3's most tasty source IMO), also I try to eat a bit of coconut oil with every meal.  Lots of seeds.  I've become addicted to pumpkin seeds, it's nuts ( )  I only eat unprocessed natural food now, and can say that it has certainly helped with overall health.  Also, the scaly flaky patches I had on my scalp are completely gone (it may have been from Minoxidil use, which I also quit awhile ago, but I don't know).  I thought I'd just start munching on spinach like potato chips now, when I'm at my desk I just open a bag of spinach and have at it.

I also started "knuckling" my scalp, just because it feels good, all I do is plant my knuckles on my scalp and roll them back and forth over different areas.  I don't count this towards my DT though.

Hi John,

I am sorry for the long long long long text is coming, for short version scroll to the summary.

Well basically I removed gluten totally out of my diet (no breads, pastas, cookies... I don't really miss it, but it's very annoying to check in the super market for each product if it is gluten free, almost everything contains gluten, it's weird). I reduced my consume of other grains to rice, quinoa or corn 1x week.

I don't eat many other nuts or seeds, only 3-4 Brazilian nuts a day, and maybe legumes (beans, red lentils, peas, soy...) x2 month. Indeed, I don't understand why nuts and seeds are so present in modern diets. I do understand we eat the fruit (the meat of the plant) but not the seeds. Seeds and nuts contains a lot of phytates which are not good for us in big quantities. They also contain other chemical compounds to discourage herbivores, omnivorous and seed predators. Which make sense right? Plants are protecting their future babes!

For the same reason I only use coconut and olive oil (made from the meat and the fruit respectively). Coconut for frying, and olive oil for baking or raw in salads. I avoid any oil made from seeds (sunflower, canola, palm...).

If you go to a normal supermarket 90% of processed foods will have either gluten, nuts, soy based or cooked on seeds oil. Check the labels. It is unreal the amount of gluten and seeds we are consuming. And it is not because they are healthier for us, but because its production is cheaper!!

While bread allowed humans to grow faster in number as civilisation (it's a cheap product), let's never forget that humans in prehistoric times were fruit gatherers mostly and meat opportunists to start with. In fact humans managed to domesticate animals (dogs as hunting buddies in particular) before cereals.

I know there is a big and ongoing debate between vegetarians, vegans and meatatarians. Vegetarians point out that we can't eat meat uncooked (which is not true: oyster, insects, bacon, tartar... all that you can meet uncooked, but cooked meat is in fact more proteinic, can be digested better and decrease the risks of phatogens). They also mention we have a very large intestine, so therefore we are vegetarians. Well, I would like to point out here, that flours and oils are processed seeds, that seeds itself can not be digested by humans and may be toxic, that we don't have more than one stomach like many herbivores do, or that our teeth are not only flat molars for grinding (as cows, or horses do), but in fact we also have incisors and primitive canines (which all carnivores have) for cutting and ripping apart.

Humans are omnivorous. We have always been (google prehistoric paintings of buffalos, is there any prehistoric painting of wheat? not right?). Vegetarians blame meat for everything and say it causes inflammation, well true. Maybe because we feed our cattle with processed animal feeds and flours based mostly on chemically modified seeds, cereals and rests of other animals? Maybe because we have polluted our oceans and rivers? IF we feed animals with shit, what do you expect? Gold in return? A normal cow would feed on varied grass, moving happily here and there. In the same way, a fish would swim happily in the ocean without getting stuck on a cola can or petroleum. Internet is full of information and its consume requires common sense, otherwise you will end up with plenty of stupid and contradictory articles and living in a permanent state of paranoia.

This goes to: I eat only organic, grass feed, meat from local farmers (lamb, duck, rabbit, deer, chicken, calf, bacon) x3 a week. I prefer meat that goes with the bone, because is where you find the tendons and ligaments that are reach in collagen. I also eat the skin and do often home-made broths. Twice a month I buy and cook internal organs, like liver, brains, tongue... Sausages are great (traditionally is spiced offal with the intestine), but the ones you will find in the supermarket have gluten, why? who knows...!

I eat seafood and fresh fish x4-5 times a week (wild salmon, pollock, cod, flat fishes, trout, shrimps, mussels, octopus, crab, squid...). Often I make soups with seafood, seaweeds and mushrooms.

Veggies all kinds: turnips, radishes, beans, peas, tomatoes, cucumbers, squashes, eggplants, leeks, paprikas, spinach, green salads, pumpkins, cabbages... (4-6 pieces a day). Carrots, onion and garlic every day.

Fruits all kinds: oranges, bananas, apples, avocados, kiwis, mangos, pineapple, melons, berries, grapes, peaches, mandarines, pears, coconut, dates... (6-8 pieces a day). Normally I eat them with organic honey.

Dairy: Biologic milk with coffee and unrefined sugar (x2 a day) / Cheeses - 1 small portion per day / Kefir or quark yogurt x4 week / Eggs x1 week. Ice cream yes! Whenever I find it without gluten or too much crap inside.

THAT'S IT. Looks complex but it's very simple. The issue is that supermarket and big malls are full of bad stuff. I buy at farmer markets mostly. Hope it's clear

---

Summary:

- No-gluten.
- Coconut for frying, and olive oil for baking or raw in salads.
- Rice, quinoa or corn (i.e. corn pasta) x1 week.
- Legumes (beans, lentils, peas) x2 month.
- Organic meat from local farms (mostly bones and parts reach in collagen, twice a month offal) x3 week.
- Seafood and fresh fish. Seaweeds. x4-5 week.
- Veggies / Every day (4-6 pieces p.d.).
- Fruits / Every day (6-8 pieces p.d.).
- Dairy: Biologic milk with coffee and unrefined sugar (x2 a day) / Cheeses - 1 small portion per day / Kefir or quark yogurt x4 week / Eggs x1 week. Ice cream yes! Whenever I find it without gluten or too much crap inside.
- Brazilian nuts 3-4 day.

Hole wrote:

johndoe1225 wrote:
Hey Hole

What's your diet like?  I am also a firm believer that it plays a big part in MPB/hairloss.  I had a horrible diet before my MPB started, basically low fat high carb, and even after that, I switched to "healthy whole grains" and ended up eating an entire half of a multi-grain baguette with my dinner!  I used to eat so much bread.  Not to mention cereal...  My hair loss diet is basically gluten free, grain free and sugar free.  I eat a lot of fat, mostly from fish (omega-3's most tasty source IMO), also I try to eat a bit of coconut oil with every meal.  Lots of seeds.  I've become addicted to pumpkin seeds, it's nuts ( )  I only eat unprocessed natural food now, and can say that it has certainly helped with overall health.  Also, the scaly flaky patches I had on my scalp are completely gone (it may have been from Minoxidil use, which I also quit awhile ago, but I don't know).  I thought I'd just start munching on spinach like potato chips now, when I'm at my desk I just open a bag of spinach and have at it.

I also started "knuckling" my scalp, just because it feels good, all I do is plant my knuckles on my scalp and roll them back and forth over different areas.  I don't count this towards my DT though.

Hi John,

I am sorry for the long long long long text is coming, for short version scroll to the summary.

Well basically I removed gluten totally out of my diet (no breads, pastas, cookies... I don't really miss it, but it's very annoying to check in the super market for each product if it is gluten free, almost everything contains gluten, it's weird). I reduced my consume of other grains to rice, quinoa or corn 1x week.

I don't eat many other nuts or seeds, only 3-4 Brazilian nuts a day, and maybe legumes (beans, red lentils, peas, soy...) x2 month. Indeed, I don't understand why nuts and seeds are so present in modern diets. I do understand we eat the fruit (the meat of the plant) but not the seeds. Seeds and nuts contains a lot of phytates which are not good for us in big quantities. They also contain other chemical compounds to discourage herbivores, omnivorous and seed predators. Which make sense right? Plants are protecting their future babes!

For the same reason I only use coconut and olive oil (made from the meat and the fruit respectively). Coconut for frying, and olive oil for baking or raw in salads. I avoid any oil made from seeds (sunflower, canola, palm...).

If you go to a normal supermarket 90% of processed foods will have either gluten, nuts, soy based or cooked on seeds oil. Check the labels. It is unreal the amount of gluten and seeds we are consuming. And it is not because they are healthier for us, but because its production is cheaper!!

While bread allowed humans to grow faster in number as civilisation (it's a cheap product), let's never forget that humans in prehistoric times were fruit gatherers mostly and meat opportunists to start with. In fact humans managed to domesticate animals (dogs as hunting buddies in particular) before cereals.

I know there is a big and ongoing debate between vegetarians, vegans and meatatarians. Vegetarians point out that we can't eat meat uncooked (which is not true: oyster, insects, bacon, tartar... all that you can meet uncooked, but cooked meat is in fact more proteinic, can be digested better and decrease the risks of phatogens). They also mention we have a very large intestine, so therefore we are vegetarians. Well, I would like to point out here, that flours and oils are processed seeds, that seeds itself can not be digested by humans and may be toxic, that we don't have more than one stomach like many herbivores do, or that our teeth are not only flat molars for grinding (as cows, or horses do), but in fact we also have incisors and primitive canines (which all carnivores have) for cutting and ripping apart.

Humans are omnivorous. We have always been (google prehistoric paintings of buffalos, is there any prehistoric painting of wheat? not right?). Vegetarians blame meat for everything and say it causes inflammation, well true. Maybe because we feed our cattle with processed animal feeds and flours based mostly on chemically modified seeds, cereals and rests of other animals? Maybe because we have polluted our oceans and rivers? IF we feed animals with shit, what do you expect? Gold in return? A normal cow would feed on varied grass, moving happily here and there. In the same way, a fish would swim happily in the ocean without getting stuck on a cola can or petroleum. Internet is full of information and its consume requires common sense, otherwise you will end up with plenty of stupid and contradictory articles and living in a permanent state of paranoia.

This goes to: I eat only organic, grass feed, meat from local farmers (lamb, duck, rabbit, deer, chicken, calf, bacon) x3 a week. I prefer meat that goes with the bone, because is where you find the tendons and ligaments that are reach in collagen. I also eat the skin and do often home-made broths. Twice a month I buy and cook internal organs, like liver, brains, tongue... Sausages are great (traditionally is spiced offal with the intestine), but the ones you will find in the supermarket have gluten, why? who knows...!

I eat seafood and fresh fish x4-5 times a week (wild salmon, pollock, cod, flat fishes, trout, shrimps, mussels, octopus, crab, squid...). Often I make soups with seafood, seaweeds and mushrooms.

Veggies all kinds: turnips, radishes, beans, peas, tomatoes, cucumbers, squashes, eggplants, leeks, paprikas, spinach, green salads, pumpkins, cabbages... (4-6 pieces a day). Carrots, onion and garlic every day.

Fruits all kinds: oranges, bananas, apples, avocados, kiwis, mangos, pineapple, melons, berries, grapes, peaches, mandarines, pears, coconut, dates... (6-8 pieces a day). Normally I eat them with organic honey.

Dairy: Biologic milk with coffee and unrefined sugar (x2 a day) / Cheeses - 1 small portion per day / Kefir or quark yogurt x4 week / Eggs x1 week. Ice cream yes! Whenever I find it without gluten or too much crap inside.

THAT'S IT. Looks complex but it's very simple. The issue is that supermarket and big malls are full of bad stuff. I buy at farmer markets mostly. Hope it's clear

---

Summary:

- No-gluten.
- Coconut for frying, and olive oil for baking or raw in salads.
- Rice, quinoa or corn (i.e. corn pasta) x1 week.
- Legumes (beans, lentils, peas) x2 month.
- Organic meat from local farms (mostly bones and parts reach in collagen, twice a month offal) x3 week.
- Seafood and fresh fish. Seaweeds. x4-5 week.
- Veggies / Every day (4-6 pieces p.d.).
- Fruits / Every day (6-8 pieces p.d.).
- Dairy: Biologic milk with coffee and unrefined sugar (x2 a day) / Cheeses - 1 small portion per day / Kefir or quark yogurt x4 week / Eggs x1 week. Ice cream yes! Whenever I find it without gluten or too much crap inside.
- Brazilian nuts 3-4 day.

Hi Hole

That's quite a diverse list of foods you eat, wow

I definitely eat red meat though, but not as often as I'd like too, maybe once a week.

That's interesting what you say about seeds, I used to just have a handful of raw pumpkin seeds, but maybe I'll have to research it a bit more.

Seafood has to be my favorite category, tuna being #1, then sardines, salmon, I love fish.  I eat fish every day.  Also, I used to consume a....let's say...Insane amount of beans until recently.  I mean, basically, I loved them so much I'd very easily consume 400 calories worth of beans almost daily, usually more without even noticing.  I ate them raw for a few months (well, they were canned in water and cooked, so I suppose they weren't really raw, no baked beans slathered in brown sugar or anything like that, just usually black beans, pinto beans, great northern beans, etc.) but decided to go off beans almost completely, maybe once or twice a month.  I was consuming far, far too much beans!

My vegetable intake is basically escarole a few times a week, about half a bag of spinach every day, broccoli rabe, mostly leafy greens and dark greens like that.

The organ meats is something I really want to try, I just never noticed it, I'm sure my local stores have some, I shall see next time.  I've only ever consumed what I think is called "muscle meats", like steaks and stuff like that.  I always eat them with sweet potatoes, which are very dangerous to me, because I can very, very easily eat pounds upon pounds of sweet potatoes without even realizing.  Sweet potatoes are my #1 food.  I have to actually limit myself to cooking only three sweet potatoes, or I can be 99% certain that I will eat everything.  Luckily, they are very good for you...in reasonable quantities of course!

Anyway, thanks for your input!

johndoe1225 wrote:
Hi Hole

That's quite a diverse list of foods you eat, wow

Hi john,

Yes! People normally freak out when I say I don't eat gluten. Like if there was no food to replace it and I would starve! Actually is the other way around!

Insofar as you try to eat a bit of everything (wow to your beans and spinach addition LOL), avoid as much processed and pre-cooked food as possible, and look for foods and products with the shorter distribution chain (local farm > you), you will be fine! We humans have become very lazy, way too lazy, it's too easy to grab something ready made to eat!

Also as a side note - I have split my meals in 5 smaller intakes a day, instead of a lot of quantity in one round.

My 2 cents.

Hole wrote:

johndoe1225 wrote:
Hi Hole

That's quite a diverse list of foods you eat, wow

Hi john,

Yes! People normally freak out when I say I don't eat gluten. Like if there was no food to replace it and I would starve! Actually is the other way around!

Insofar as you try to eat a bit of everything (wow to your beans and spinach addition LOL), avoid as much processed and pre-cooked food as possible, and look for foods and products with the shorter distribution chain (local farm > you), you will be fine! We humans have become very lazy, way too lazy, it's too easy to grab something ready made to eat!

Also as a side note - I have split my meals in 5 smaller intakes a day, instead of a lot of quantity in one round.

My 2 cents.

Hey Hole

Yeah, it's actually really easy to avoid gluten and grains once you get used to it, I have no problem daily. All it takes is to get started, and after about a month it's just the way you eat.

I was thinking about something else...I thought of it when I was doing my DT yesterday, and accidentally raised my eyebrows. My scalp got super tight until I relaxed them. That got me thinking how I spend a LOT of time in this position, especially when I'm around other people (I have the wrong assumption that I look "mad" if I relax my eyebrows) without even noticing it. I've started putting a lot of work into consciously completely relaxing my forehead muscles. I catch myself all the time, at the computer, driving, everywhere. It might be due to stress, but either way, I will put an end to it. I wouldn't be surprised if this contributed slightly to a tight scalp in some areas.

Was hoping I could get some feedback from the DT'rs who are getting results and also the veterans/more knowledgable ones. Pardon the long post, but just want to get it all out there.

So its been almost 3.5 months since Ive been doing DT. No regrowth so far, hairline seems to have creeped back a bit.
The odd thing, which Ive never heard anyone mention before is sometimes it seems my scalp gets more callous and harder to pinch, almost the reverse of what everyone else is explaining. But then sometimes things seem more loose.

Going to lay out the specifics of how I do my DT.

-I use bian stones. They get a deeper pinch with less effort than hands. It's possible the bian stones are the culprit for this callous scalp type feeling because quite often parts of my scalp sting so much, are so sore, that I can only do my second session of the day with my hands. I dont try to destroy my scalp or anything, just to get a deep pinch with the thought of breaking up fibrosis. But in order to get that pinch and not have the stones slide I gotta push down somewhat hard. Maybe the stones are causing a "rugburn" type effect on my scalp, maybe theyre just too much for my scalp, not sure. My scalp a couple hours after has like a tight dry skin feeling all over it, a shitload of dandruff too (huge flakes). So maybe this tight deadskin layer is whats causing my scalp to feel more tight. Anyways, maybe stones are too much for me, but its hard to give them up because the pinch difference is so night and day.

-I usually do DT in the shower because the scalp is a lot easier to manipulate when wet.

- I warm up my scalp 2-5 min on average. Either doing what Rob was doing in his warm up on the video or just massaging around the head in a circular motion like leon maliniak exercises. I also do scalp scrunching quite often. Either pulses or 40-60 second holds.

-On average, I go around 40-60 minutes each session. I dont know how the f*ck you guys get your whole scalp properly in less time, getting good pinches. Its beyond me. I start from the front, going to the back, in a straight line, doing about a 2-3 second hold in a pinch, 2-3 second hold in a stretch, and then some quick pinch/stretch pulses. Then I move to the next area. After a whole line front to back is done, I move like .5-1 cenimeter over and do another line front to back the same way. The top back part of my scalp is always hardest to pinch. Holy shit, even with stones, I gotta take a break between lines because my hands get so damn tired.


-Overall, jeesus, DT is time consuming and pretty damn tough to do. Its a freakin workout everytime and I rarely forward to doing it. There are days where my scalp is easier to pinch, is not too sore, so on those days I might be more neutral towards it, maybe even enjoy it.

**I also take a couple supplements. Ill lay them out, tell me if anyone thinks they might be interfering with the process of DT.

1. Trx2 (basically 800mg of carnitine, a little potassium, and a small amount of other amino acids). Some of you might have heard of it. Aims to re build potassium channels. A lot of people have knocked it hard as a scam, lots of poeple havent had results on it, but for me, it seems to help slow down my loss significantly and strengthen/thicken my hair some. Been on it since '11. Since a couple people have mentioned micro inflammation playing a part in DT, im wondering if somehow this interferes with the micro inflammatory process? I dunno...

2. MSM/vitC. I dont see how this could be interfering at all.

3. Magnesium. Definitely not interfering...


Well thats basically it. Please lemme know any thoughts you guys might have.

Also, at the end of the day, maybe Im just early in to see any results. But at this point, I feel like I should be seeing small small signs of something, vellous, anything..

sizzlinghairs wrote:Was hoping I could get some feedback from the DT'rs who are getting results and also the veterans/more knowledgable ones. Pardon the long post, but just want to get it all out there.

So its been almost 3.5 months since Ive been doing DT. No regrowth so far, hairline seems to have creeped back a bit.
The odd thing, which Ive never heard anyone mention before is sometimes it seems my scalp gets more callous and harder to pinch, almost the reverse of what everyone else is explaining. But then sometimes things seem more loose.

Going to lay out the specifics of how I do my DT.

-I use bian stones. They get a deeper pinch with less effort than hands. It's possible the bian stones are the culprit for this callous scalp type feeling because quite often parts of my scalp sting so much, are so sore, that I can only do my second session of the day with my hands. I dont try to destroy my scalp or anything, just to get a deep pinch with the thought of breaking up fibrosis. But in order to get that pinch and not have the stones slide I gotta push down somewhat hard. Maybe the stones are causing a "rugburn" type effect on my scalp, maybe theyre just too much for my scalp, not sure. My scalp a couple hours after has like a tight dry skin feeling all over it, a shitload of dandruff too (huge flakes). So maybe this tight deadskin layer is whats causing my scalp to feel more tight. Anyways, maybe stones are too much for me, but its hard to give them up because the pinch difference is so night and day.

-I usually do DT in the shower because the scalp is a lot easier to manipulate when wet.

- I warm up my scalp 2-5 min on average. Either doing what Rob was doing in his warm up on the video or just massaging around the head in a circular motion like leon maliniak exercises. I also do scalp scrunching quite often. Either pulses or 40-60 second holds.

-On average, I go around 40-60 minutes each session. I dont know how the f*ck you guys get your whole scalp properly in less time, getting good pinches. Its beyond me. I start from the front, going to the back, in a straight line, doing about a 2-3 second hold in a pinch, 2-3 second hold in a stretch, and then some quick pinch/stretch pulses. Then I move to the next area. After a whole line front to back is done, I move like .5-1 cenimeter over and do another line front to back the same way. The top back part of my scalp is always hardest to pinch. Holy shit, even with stones, I gotta take a break between lines because my hands get so damn tired.


-Overall, jeesus, DT is time consuming and pretty damn tough to do. Its a freakin workout everytime and I rarely forward to doing it. There are days where my scalp is easier to pinch, is not too sore, so on those days I might be more neutral towards it, maybe even enjoy it.

**I also take a couple supplements. Ill lay them out, tell me if anyone thinks they might be interfering with the process of DT.

1. Trx2 (basically 800mg of carnitine, a little potassium, and a small amount of other amino acids). Some of you might have heard of it. Aims to re build potassium channels. A lot of people have knocked it hard as a scam, lots of poeple havent had results on it, but for me, it seems to help slow down my loss significantly and strengthen/thicken my hair some. Been on it since '11. Since a couple people have mentioned micro inflammation playing a part in DT, im wondering if somehow this interferes with the micro inflammatory process? I dunno...

2. MSM/vitC. I dont see how this could be interfering at all.

3. Magnesium. Definitely not interfering...


Well thats basically it. Please lemme know any thoughts you guys might have.

Also, at the end of the day, maybe Im just early in to see any results. But at this point, I feel like I should be seeing small small signs of something, vellous, anything..

Hey Hairs,

Well, 3.5 months isn't even close to the 5 month MINIMUM to see results, if we go by the original study.

As for the techniques, I'm certainly not an expert, but if I were you, I'd drop the stones and I certainly wouldn't do DT in the shower (you must take long showers ).  I'd be worried of increased slipperiness causing friction between scalp/fingers leading to hair breakage.

It's still really early, try not to get discouraged.  I've already seen MUCH more shedding after only about 2 weeks of DT, which is really encouraging to me.  I'm convinced it's from DT, because for the duration of my hair loss (about 2.5-3 years), I've seen normal shedding, then all of a sudden, when I started DT, it really sped up, I was pulling detached strands out of my hair all the time!

Lol, yeah long showers for sure. But I have dechlorinated water filter so it's all good. As far as grip, I'm actually able to make sure they don't slide surprisingly enough.

Thing is, the stones give such a superior pinch. Maybe I'll try to go lighter with them but then I don't know how I'll get the proper pinch depth etc. it's just so difficult for me to get a good punch anywhere else besides the temples/hairline with my hands..

The guy who got me turned on to the stones said it took him 6 months to see regrowth. So maybe I'll have to wait but I think he was seeing good signs before hand as well. That's what has me troubled. People usually see little signs around 2-3 months. I'm seeing zilch.

sizzlinghairs wrote:Lol, yeah long showers for sure. But I have dechlorinated water filter so it's all good. As far as grip, I'm actually able to make sure they don't slide surprisingly enough.

Thing is, the stones give such a superior pinch. Maybe I'll try to go lighter with them but then I don't know how I'll get the proper pinch depth etc. it's just so difficult for me to get a good punch anywhere else besides the temples/hairline with my hands..

The guy who got me turned on to the stones said it took him 6 months to see regrowth. So maybe I'll have to wait but I think he was seeing good signs before hand as well. That's what has me troubled. People usually see little signs around 2-3 months. I'm seeing zilch.

Did you try to use two hands to pinch before trying the stones? I use the two hand method, until my scalp loosens anyway.

Ya, always 2 hands

Hi Sizzlinghairs,

2 sessions of 50-60 min = almost 2 hours a day + stones + under the water (hot water?)? One thing is to pinch hard, but this you are doing looks to me a bit hardcore. You need to give your scalp time to heal. The point is not to create a permanent acute inflammation, but to create enough acute inflammation plus the healing process in between.

What you are doing looks something in between DT and derma rolling your head everyday! Now that I know you have read Rob's book, why you just not simply follow it? Drop the stones. Your fingers will actually give you a better idea about when are you pinching too hard or not. And almost 2 hours under hot (or warm) water every day is too much too.

Basically I think you are overdoing! Relax!

My 2 cents.

Not hot, Luke warm-semi cold.

Actually haven't read robs book, just seen his video..

Man, with fingers I can barely get a solid pinch anywhere besides my hairline/temples...

sizzlinghairs wrote:

Man, with fingers I can barely get a solid pinch anywhere besides my hairline/temples...

Are you also doing the general massage before and after the pinching?  That is also a very important aspect of DT, I do general massages (very hard) before AND after the pinching part of DT.  That should definitely loosen up the skin.

EDIT:  By the way, Hole, I do a lot of general, deep scalp massage (very hard though, like my DT massage portion) every day, not counting towards my DT time, do you think that's fine, that's not really creating inflammation since I'm not pinching, I only pinch while doing DT.

Doe, U mean like general circular massage just to loosen up scalp? I do that per Robs video like 2-5 min before each session, it sometimes involves scalp scrunching..

Shit, well I hope I havent damaged my follicles beyond repair

Maybe I should start going with my hands.. And I'll def check out robs book. Does it give written instructions as well on how he does his DT?

sizzlinghairs wrote:Doe, U mean like general circular massage just to loosen up scalp? I do that per Robs video like 2-5 min before each session, it sometimes involves scalp scrunching..

Shit, well I hope I havent damaged my follicles beyond repair

Maybe I should start going with my hands.. And I'll def check out robs book. Does it give written instructions as well on how he does his DT?

I really wouldn't worry about damaging your hair follicles based on what you did, unless your idea of "scalp wounding" is a machete, you should be fine

Also yes, that's the massage I meant

And yes, Rob's book is very interesting and gives written instructions