Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

April 11, 2015 - Damn it's already been a month. Here is the photo of the 1 month mark.



What happened in the last month -

1. Stopped shampooing my hair. Before I was using Head & Shoulders for like a year because of dandruff problems. While it helped the dandruff it was also drying out my hair. No more. Now its just water and once a week baking soda/vinegar cleaning. This, along with extra virgin olive oil has fixed the dry head and scalp problem.
2. Midway through I started using extra virgin olive oil on the hair & scalp. Doing it twice a week and leave it in for 30 - 60 minutes before rinsing.
3. Have not done the apple cider vinegar thing yet.
4. Started off doing DT but only 1x a day because my scalp was super sore. Midway through the month I increased to 2x a day.
5. Someone wrote a post a while back on the position of the pillow and how to alter where you place your head during sleep. I thought it can't hurt to try that so I also started doing that midway through the month.

Some observations - the top of my scalp used to itch like crazy after a shower or during a workout. It does not anymore. I still get an occasional itch during the day but nothing like before. I loose about about 20 - 30 hairs each DT session along with a bunch of scalp flakes/dandruff. In addition to hair loss I also have to deal with gray & white hairs coming in - everything I have been reading leads me to believe its related to a mineral imbalance so I'll be doing a hair analysis real soon. Well, that's it for my update.

Denied.

hey guys one thing that DT has done for me is to stop this annoying scalp itch. I got too busy over easter and dropped it for about 10 days. Slowly but surely the scalp itch returned. Now on numerous occasions throughout the day i can feel my temples and crown itch and even sting a little.

sizzlinghairs wrote:

bogv51 wrote:Ill be doing this another 3 months along with olive oil 3 times a week, If I don't get any results from it then I am officially done with it. Started Dt in January 2014.

How long have you been doing the kneading/pinching? You are using stones yes? Do you get a deep pinch and a full stretch for each little area you do? And consistently 20 min 2x/day yes? Do you pinch the sides too?

yes, the sides and the forehead, and even the back. Ive been pinching since I started dt. I get a pretty dam deep pinch that pretty much leaves mark, when im done. I wont be using stones anymore or maybe jsut a lil after im done pinching with my fingers. I find that I was able to do deep pinch fine when im in the shower with my hand.

Denied wrote:April 11, 2015 - Damn it's already been a month. Here is the photo of the 1 month mark.



What happened in the last month -

1. Stopped shampooing my hair. Before I was using Head & Shoulders for like a year because of dandruff problems. While it helped the dandruff it was also drying out my hair. No more. Now its just water and once a week baking soda/vinegar cleaning. This, along with extra virgin olive oil has fixed the dry head and scalp problem.
2. Midway through I started using extra virgin olive oil on the hair & scalp. Doing it twice a week and leave it in for 30 - 60 minutes before rinsing.
3. Have not done the apple cider vinegar thing yet.
4. Started off doing DT but only 1x a day because my scalp was super sore. Midway through the month I increased to 2x a day.
5. Someone wrote a post a while back on the position of the pillow and how to alter where you place your head during sleep. I thought it can't hurt to try that so I also started doing that midway through the month.

Some observations - the top of my scalp used to itch like crazy after a shower or during a workout. It does not anymore. I still get an occasional itch during the day but nothing like before. I loose about about 20 - 30 hairs each DT session along with a bunch of scalp flakes/dandruff. In addition to hair loss I also have to deal with gray & white hairs coming in - everything I have been reading leads me to believe its related to a mineral imbalance so I'll be doing a hair analysis real soon. Well, that's it for my update.

Denied.

not much from the pic, but man you took some good ass pic for progress, one of the best ive seen.

@denied, from my experience, going even 2 days without washing my hair causes my scalp to become irritated and inflamed. I believe this is caused by a build up of secretory acids in sweat and sebum which inflame the follicle at it's root. For me, daily scalp cleanliness is essential.

Something else of note; I usually suffer no thinning at the crown, yet it becomes irritated if I don't wash it daily. Because these follicles are facing upward, gravity causes acidic secretions to pour down into the follicle. Follicles facing down (lower back and sides) are less likely to experience build up of acids because gravity prevents them moving up. Compare a follicle to a cup... the cup is upright, liquid can pour into and remain in the cup, turn it upside down, gravity causes the liquid to pour out. This is the same scenario for sweat and sebum.

Interesting. I still wash (ok, it's more like rinse) the hair and scalp with plain water almost everyday because of sweat build up from workouts and near infrared sauna sessions. That is followed by a weekly baking soda/vinegar combo which I may increase to twice a week. No problems with that routine yet...

Denied wrote:Interesting. I still wash (ok, it's more like rinse) the hair and scalp with plain water almost everyday because of sweat build up from workouts and near infrared sauna sessions. That is followed by a weekly baking soda/vinegar combo which I may increase to twice a week. No problems with that routine yet...

In the past, whenever the odd hair has come loose from my crown, it always had a hardened plug of sebum attached to it's base. You ever experience this?

Yes for me in times of greatest hair shedding the hair bulb always came with huge sebum plugs which are supposedly full of DHT.

Biffy wrote:Yes for me in times of greatest hair shedding the hair bulb always came with huge sebum plugs which are supposedly full of DHT.

I've read studies which reveal increased DHT receptors in sebaceous glands, thereby prompting increased sebum production. I personally think that excess seb in the follicle can inflame the hair cells, yet mainly in follicles facing skyward, (hence the upright cup analogy). This may partially explain why some men only suffer crown thinning

Xenon wrote:

Denied wrote:Interesting. I still wash (ok, it's more like rinse) the hair and scalp with plain water almost everyday because of sweat build up from workouts and near infrared sauna sessions. That is followed by a weekly baking soda/vinegar combo which I may increase to twice a week. No problems with that routine yet...

In the past, whenever the odd hair has come loose from my crown, it always had a hardened plug of sebum attached to it's base. You ever experience this?

This plug is trapped dry lymph.

This plug is trapped dry lymph

Since when was lymph fluid secreted into a follicle wall? I know sebum is, as the sebaceous gland exists within the follicle wall.

Care to explain?

Xenon wrote:

Denied wrote:Interesting. I still wash (ok, it's more like rinse) the hair and scalp with plain water almost everyday because of sweat build up from workouts and near infrared sauna sessions. That is followed by a weekly baking soda/vinegar combo which I may increase to twice a week. No problems with that routine yet...

In the past, whenever the odd hair has come loose from my crown, it always had a hardened plug of sebum attached to it's base. You ever experience this?

this happened to me all the time sadly....

Xenon wrote:

This plug is trapped dry lymph

Since when was lymph fluid secreted into a follicle wall? I know sebum is, as the sebaceous gland exists within the follicle wall.

Care to explain?

Lol bro.Dont go so intellectual.Two interstitial fluids exist that surround every cell.
The blood that feeds.
The lymph that carries away cell waste.
Every cell needs both feeding as well as pooping.

Xenon wrote:
In the past, whenever the odd hair has come loose from my crown, it always had a hardened plug of sebum attached to it's base. You ever experience this?

Yes, I get a few hair like that with each DT session. Some long and some short. Not sure if they are from the crown or not.

gorilla_power wrote:

Xenon wrote:

This plug is trapped dry lymph

Since when was lymph fluid secreted into a follicle wall? I know sebum is, as the sebaceous gland exists within the follicle wall.

Care to explain?

Lol bro.Dont go so intellectual.Two interstitial fluids exist that surround every cell.
The blood that feeds.
The lymph that carries away cell waste.
Every cell needs both feeding as well as pooping.

yeh, I'm aware of the functions of lymph and interstitial fluid, I've just never heard of them leaking into follicles and forming dry plugs. I only know of this happening with excess sebum.

Been doing olive oil for the past two weeks, so obviously it is WAY too soon to notice anything from that. Regardless, my hair continues to look worse and worse. The existing hair looks healthy as always, but my hairline looks like it is sizzling. About 1/4 of an inch on my hairline, all of the hairs are shortened and appear like it is thinning and falling out which can't be a good sign. They are all miniaturizing. Fuck.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I have NEVER had a plug like that come out with one of my hairs.

Another possibility here concerning sebum probs... the compression issues, I spoke of, could be forcing sebum into the root of the follicle (sort of like pressing putty deep into a cavity). Where acne vulgaris is concerned, sebum plugs generally inflame the follicle's surface, yet what if compression forced sebum deep into the root? Inflammation would occur within hair cells surrounding the papilla, too.

Many of you guys have mentioned having seb derm probs, along with baldness. This could explain it.

you have some interesting theories, but without proper evidence you linking to studies, they remain just that theories.

personally ive always viewed mpb and sebum plugs as both outcomes from increased sebaceous glands in certain areas. but not related other than a common cause.

however i definately think we should come up with some good ways to dissolve these plugs, if we can find a non harmful way to do it, then might as well.

rofl wrote:you have some interesting theories, but without proper evidence you linking to studies, they remain just that theories.

personally ive always viewed mpb and sebum plugs as both outcomes from increased sebaceous glands in certain areas.  but not related other than a common cause.

however i definately think we should come up with some good ways to dissolve these plugs, if we can find a non harmful way to do it, then might as well.

Yup, rofl. As CS mentioned, it is multi-factorial problem, yet most insults only cause damage to matrix cells and cause a prolonged catagen cycle. Remove these insults, and matrix cells will quickly be renewed. Yet, there appears to be a threshold point in which follicles switch off and enter into a permanent resting or telogen phase. For instance, minox is most effective in causing recently miniaturized hair to regrow, but not hair which has been miniaturized for years. Why? My only guess is, that they miniaturize so much that they become conditioned into remaining permanently in the resting phase. Perhaps an epigenetic mutation occurs which signals progenitor cells to stop growing hair. In other words, the follicle is like, 'Fuck it! ...no point in trying to grow hair if the cells are being constantly destroyed. I quit!'.

Should I consider stopping this and trying Dermarolling? I just bought a brand new 1.5 dermaroller.

Sounds like this isn't working for you, so maybe. If you're ready to start inhibiting DHT then stay on DT.... but, if you feel like you've still got time to experiment before your hair crosses the point of no return might as well see what dermarolling has to offer. The whole idea is to increase absoption of something pro hair but some believe wounds in general = hair.

Growdamnit wrote:Should I consider stopping this and trying Dermarolling? I just bought a brand new 1.5 dermaroller.

Your choice. I'd personally prefer to avoid all manuals which induce any form of wounding. Some fella recently emailed me to inform me that he tried margo's toweling method - which caused his hair to thin and become worse than ever.

It sounds logical that wounding would cause follicles to grow stronger (like brushing gums), but the reality seems to be worse hairloss. My reckoning is, dht inhibits the initiation of growth factors, so when follicles are wounded they just become weaker. Remove dht from the equation, then micro-wounding might actually work.

I know the dht / igf issue is old news, but no doubt dht is likely the primary problem in putting a cap on growth factors / wound healing. Further stressors just cause follicles to deteriorate faster.

Dihydrotestosterone inhibits hair growth in mice by inhibiting insulin-like growth factor-I production in dermal papillae.
Zhao J1, Harada N, Okajima K.
Author information
Abstract
We demonstrated that insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) production in dermal papillae was increased and hair growth was promoted after sensory neuron stimulation in mice. Although the androgen metabolite dihydrotestosterone (DHT) inhibits hair growth by negatively modulating growth-regulatory effects of dermal papillae, relationship between androgen metabolism and IGF-I production in dermal papillae is not fully understood. We examined whether DHT inhibits IGF-I production by inhibiting sensory neuron stimulation, thereby preventing hair growth in mice. Effect of DHT on sensory neuron stimulation was examined using cultured dorsal root ganglion (DRG) neurons isolated from mice. DHT inhibits calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) release from cultured DRG neurons. The non-steroidal androgen-receptor antagonist flutamide reversed DHT-induced inhibition of CGRP release. Dermal levels of IGF-I and IGF-I mRNA, and the number of IGF-I-positive fibroblasts around hair follicles were increased at 6h after CGRP administration. DHT administration for 3weeks decreased dermal levels of CGRP, IGF-I, and IGF-I mRNA in mice. Immunohistochemical expression of IGF-I and the number of proliferating cells in hair follicles were decreased and hair re-growth was inhibited in animals administered DHT. Co-administration of flutamide and CGRP reversed these changes induced by DHT administration. These observations suggest that DHT may decrease IGF-I production in dermal papillae by inhibiting sensory neuron stimulation through interaction with the androgen receptor, thereby inhibiting hair growth in mice"

This is my current supplement list which I take every day:

Jarrow Formulas Ashwaganda
Now Foods Vitamin A
Morningstar Minerals Immune Boost 77
Garden of Life Extra Virgin Coconut Oil
Black Currant Oil
Ortho Nutrition:
  Stabilized R-lipoic acid
  Ecklonia Cava
  Decalcify
  Antioxidant Boost
Trace Minerals 40k Volt Electrolyte Concentrate
Iosol Iodine
MRM:
  Acetyl L-Carnitine
  MSM Crystals
Doctor’s Best Vit. C Quali-C
Garden of Life Probiotics
Thorne B-Complex #12
Life Extension Super Selenium

In conjunction to this and a vegan diet, what are my best options for eliminating DHT or producing as little as I can?

Growdamnit wrote:Should I consider stopping this and trying Dermarolling? I just bought a brand new 1.5 dermaroller.

I did exactly that before DT destroyed my hair´s appereance. I registed in this forum: http://stopaga.com/topic/1945-2y2r-experiments-on-wounding/

And started following the DR protocol of a guy who regrew his norwood 4 all to what looks to be a norwood 1,5; he has the pictures to prove it. Anyway, the DR seems to be safer than DT. Just my two cents...