Fasting and Intermittent Fasting Advice

Is anyone using fasting or intermittent fasting to combat hair loss? If so could you please share your techniques?

Thanks.

I can only give you one advice. Make sure you still get the same amount of calories in on your fasting days.

Each time I have fasted i have suffered severe shedding. It started out as diffuse thinning all over, but the vertex seemed to inflame and shed the worst. Yet, very oddly, when I returned to normal eating my hair became the thickest and healthiest it had been in years. I have no idea why this could have happened, other than the fact that i was eating a shitload of mackerel with omega 3. Still, the vertex took about a year to heal and return to normal, so severe was the shed.

Definitely agree with Deadly on that one. With IF, I think its useful to calculate how many calories you require daily (and then account for whatever deficit you're after), and then multiply by 7 and calculate the week's total calories. Aim for hitting your week total rather than concentrating on daily totals. Although its fine to do the daily route also.

The point of IF is not to starve yourself. It isn't even necessarily the goal to be operating at a caloric deficit either. The focus of IF is on food timing, not amount. IF doesn't prescribe how much you should be eating. That is up to you and your goals.

A diet - referring to the caloric deficit - is a stressor naturally. If you are fine with your body composition and feel healthy, I'd listen to deadly and just insist that you are eating enough. Remember, its about timing, not amount. In theory you should get benefit from eating the same amount of calories you have been, but eating on the timing schedule of IF.

I lost 4 pounds after my first 24H fasting, It's been a week and I haven't regained any weight yet.

I was on the effect of modafinil, and it was easier that way (I was able to stay focused on my work while is was studying for an exam ).

In the end, I defenitively felt the benefit of giving my guts a break.

AS54 wrote:Definitely agree with Deadly on that one. With IF, I think its useful to calculate how many calories you require daily (and then account for whatever deficit you're after), and then multiply by 7 and calculate the week's total calories. Aim for hitting your week total rather than concentrating on daily totals. Although its fine to do the daily route also.

The point of IF is not to starve yourself. It isn't even necessarily the goal to be operating at a caloric deficit either. The focus of IF is on food timing, not amount. IF doesn't prescribe how much you should be eating. That is up to you and your goals.

A diet - referring to the caloric deficit - is a stressor naturally. If you are fine with your body composition and feel healthy, I'd listen to deadly and just insist that you are eating enough. Remember, its about timing, not amount. In theory you should get benefit from eating the same amount of calories you have been, but eating on the timing schedule of IF.

And what do you think about fasting as opposed to intermittent fasting? Because about 4 months after my hair started to fall out I started juicing (Youtube: "lemon ginger blast") thinking this will clear out my system and then I thought it would be more effective if I fasted at the same time, so I didnt eat anything for about three days. Around this time my hair loss stopped and I thought - Gee, this juicing nonsense is pretty good. So I continued to juice but started eating again (no wheat/ dairy) but about three weeks later the hair loss had started again. Its only recently I've wondered was it actually the act of not eating that stopped the hair loss? But then again the juices were food, liquid food. So who knows...

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

AS54 wrote:Definitely agree with Deadly on that one. With IF, I think its useful to calculate how many calories you require daily (and then account for whatever deficit you're after), and then multiply by 7 and calculate the week's total calories. Aim for hitting your week total rather than concentrating on daily totals. Although its fine to do the daily route also.

The point of IF is not to starve yourself. It isn't even necessarily the goal to be operating at a caloric deficit either. The focus of IF is on food timing, not amount. IF doesn't prescribe how much you should be eating. That is up to you and your goals.

A diet - referring to the caloric deficit - is a stressor naturally. If you are fine with your body composition and feel healthy, I'd listen to deadly and just insist that you are eating enough. Remember, its about timing, not amount. In theory you should get benefit from eating the same amount of calories you have been, but eating on the timing schedule of IF.

And what do you think about fasting as opposed to intermittent fasting? Because about 4 months after my hair started to fall out I started juicing (Youtube: "lemon ginger blast") thinking this will clear out my system and then I thought it would be more effective if I fasted at the same time, so I didnt eat anything for about three days. Around this time my hair loss stopped and I thought - Gee, this juicing nonsense is pretty good. So I continued to juice but started eating again (no wheat/ dairy) but about three weeks later the hair loss had started again. Its only recently I've wondered was it actually the act of not eating that stopped the hair loss? But then again the juices were food, liquid food. So who knows...

Fasting definitely helps. One can search within this forum and see other threads on this subject.

Personally, I eat only once per day. However, load up on the food all at once. Excessive eating or frequent eating keeps inflammation going.

Every time I do eat, I take supplements to buffer the inflammation that will be caused by the foods I eat.

Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

CausticSymmetry wrote:

Every time I do eat, I take supplements to buffer the inflammation that will be caused by the foods I eat.

Hi CS, which supplements do you take to buffer the inflammation? Would you say this daily eating technique is the key to your success?

Thanks

CausticSymmetry wrote: Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

Personally, I have found this to be true in experience - when ever I have fasted, I have felt super relaxed, and my scalp has had close to zero inflammation (or at least that's how it's felt to me). I really don't relish the thought of fasting though, it takes a lot of discipline.

Hairy Potter wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote: Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

Personally, I have found this to be true in experience - when ever I have fasted, I have felt super relaxed, and my scalp has had close to zero inflammation (or at least that's how it's felt to me). I really don't relish the thought of fasting though, it takes a lot of discipline.

Hi, when you say "fasting" can you describe it? Are you talking about going without food for days and just water or are you talking about intermittent fasting with 'feeding windows'?

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote: Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

Personally, I have found this to be true in experience - when ever I have fasted, I have felt super relaxed, and my scalp has had close to zero inflammation (or at least that's how it's felt to me). I really don't relish the thought of fasting though, it takes a lot of discipline.

Hi, when you say "fasting" can you describe it? Are you talking about going without food for days and just water or are you talking about intermittent fasting with 'feeding windows'?

I was talking about a proper water fast - no eating. The last time I fasted, although it wasn't an intended fast, was because of a virus I contracted, which made eating extremely undesirable. I think I went without eating for about two days. I've done different length water (or juice fasts), the longest was 7 days, which was an intentional fast.

Hairy Potter wrote:

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote: Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

Personally, I have found this to be true in experience - when ever I have fasted, I have felt super relaxed, and my scalp has had close to zero inflammation (or at least that's how it's felt to me). I really don't relish the thought of fasting though, it takes a lot of discipline.

Hi, when you say "fasting" can you describe it? Are you talking about going without food for days and just water or are you talking about intermittent fasting with 'feeding windows'?

I was talking about a proper water fast - no eating. The last time I fasted, although it wasn't an intended fast, was because of a virus I contracted, which made eating extremely undesirable. I think I went without eating for about two days. I've done different length water (or juice fasts), the longest was 7 days, which was an intentional fast.

Ok, did you get the same desirable effects with reducing scalp inflammation with the juice fast as you did with water fast?

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote: Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

Personally, I have found this to be true in experience - when ever I have fasted, I have felt super relaxed, and my scalp has had close to zero inflammation (or at least that's how it's felt to me). I really don't relish the thought of fasting though, it takes a lot of discipline.

Hi, when you say "fasting" can you describe it? Are you talking about going without food for days and just water or are you talking about intermittent fasting with 'feeding windows'?

I was talking about a proper water fast - no eating. The last time I fasted, although it wasn't an intended fast, was because of a virus I contracted, which made eating extremely undesirable. I think I went without eating for about two days. I've done different length water (or juice fasts), the longest was 7 days, which was an intentional fast.

Ok, did you get the same desirable effects with reducing scalp inflammation with the juice fast as you did with water fast?

Yup!

Hairy Potter wrote:

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote: Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

Personally, I have found this to be true in experience - when ever I have fasted, I have felt super relaxed, and my scalp has had close to zero inflammation (or at least that's how it's felt to me). I really don't relish the thought of fasting though, it takes a lot of discipline.

Hi, when you say "fasting" can you describe it? Are you talking about going without food for days and just water or are you talking about intermittent fasting with 'feeding windows'?

I was talking about a proper water fast - no eating. The last time I fasted, although it wasn't an intended fast, was because of a virus I contracted, which made eating extremely undesirable. I think I went without eating for about two days. I've done different length water (or juice fasts), the longest was 7 days, which was an intentional fast.

Ok, did you get the same desirable effects with reducing scalp inflammation with the juice fast as you did with water fast?

Yup!

I wonder is the effect sustainable through intermittent fasting after an initial period of juice/ water fast?

Did it reduce hair loss?

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

ElmoSuper8 wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote: Also, this (at least regards to anti-aging) has been proven out. The body during an intermittent fast will downregulate inflammation.

Personally, I have found this to be true in experience - when ever I have fasted, I have felt super relaxed, and my scalp has had close to zero inflammation (or at least that's how it's felt to me). I really don't relish the thought of fasting though, it takes a lot of discipline.

Hi, when you say "fasting" can you describe it? Are you talking about going without food for days and just water or are you talking about intermittent fasting with 'feeding windows'?

I was talking about a proper water fast - no eating. The last time I fasted, although it wasn't an intended fast, was because of a virus I contracted, which made eating extremely undesirable. I think I went without eating for about two days. I've done different length water (or juice fasts), the longest was 7 days, which was an intentional fast.

Ok, did you get the same desirable effects with reducing scalp inflammation with the juice fast as you did with water fast?

Yup!

I wonder is the effect sustainable through intermittent fasting after an initial period of juice/ water fast?

Did it reduce hair loss?

Hard to say man - I reckon it is sustainable, if you make correct dietary / lifestyle choices consistently. Everything is contingent upon everything else, if that makes sense? It didn't reduce hair loss for me, because I kept making bad choices after these fasts. We'd probably all do well to not think of anything as a quick fix, but rather view everything in the long term.

In my humble opinion, the foods you eat today, the choices you make today, the attitudes you adopt today, what you believe about life today, are all what you will find yourself, your environment, and your circumstances to be in the near future. At least, that's what I've found to be true for me.

Great discussion. I agree with what CS said up above to a t.

I think the recent additions to this talk highlight a phenomenon I've found in myself and holds true for a lot of guys with MPB. The connections between MPB, insulin, and blood sugar roller coasters are there. There's no arguing that. What I've found to play out with me is that with intermittent fasting, during the periods where I'm fasting I feel very relaxed, acute, calm, clear headed. Thoughts come more quickly to me and I can reason through problems quickly. But soon after eating is when I notice my anxiety usually sets in. I have a harder time conceptualizing and forming mental images. I tend to get more obsessive tendencies. Nervousness. I think if we connect some of the psychological things we often find common to guys with MPB, it becomes obvious to me that we are just a bit better off using fat and protein (gluconeogenesis) for energy. Our carbohydrate sensitivity is greater, which means we have to take greater care in how we use carb, and treat it more like a tool than a source of dietary pleasure.

I've followed it closely and it usually always accompanies eating - if I eat the wrong things at the wrong times. Sugary meals makes the problem worse 10 fold.

I believe these issues are closely tied to blood sugar responses and we know that men with MPB have a more rapid rise and fall in blood sugar than other people. I think this roller coaster and many of the things I experience physically and mentally are tied to blood sugar. Its why consistent exercise and proper meal timing change me as a person. Its like night and day and I've had people comment on the difference in me, between when I'm "on it" as far as keeping blood sugar in check, and when I'm "off it".

I have personally found that intermittent fasting and performing a fasted workout just before my feeding window opens totally sets me straight. It actually opens me up to being able to eat a little more carbohydrate than usual without the nasty roller coaster. I'm just more at ease, focused, relaxed, confident, less obsessive. When we get down to it, it comes down to dopamine and I'm much more regulated doing things this way.

AS54 wrote:Great discussion. I agree with what CS said up above to a t.

I think the recent additions to this talk highlight a phenomenon I've found in myself and holds true for a lot of guys with MPB. The connections between MPB, insulin, and blood sugar roller coasters are there. There's no arguing that. What I've found to play out with me is that with intermittent fasting, during the periods where I'm fasting I feel very relaxed, acute, calm, clear headed. Thoughts come more quickly to me and I can reason through problems quickly. But soon after eating is when I notice my anxiety usually sets in. I have a harder time conceptualizing and forming mental images. I tend to get more obsessive tendencies. Nervousness. I think if we connect some of the psychological things we often find common to guys with MPB, it becomes obvious to me that we are just a bit better off using fat and protein (gluconeogenesis) for energy. Our carbohydrate sensitivity is greater, which means we have to take greater care in how we use carb, and treat it more like a tool than a source of dietary pleasure.

I've followed it closely and it usually always accompanies eating - if I eat the wrong things at the wrong times. Sugary meals makes the problem worse 10 fold.

I believe these issues are closely tied to blood sugar responses and we know that men with MPB have a more rapid rise and fall in blood sugar than other people. I think this roller coaster and many of the things I experience physically and mentally are tied to blood sugar. Its why consistent exercise and proper meal timing change me as a person. Its like night and day and I've had people comment on the difference in me, between when I'm "on it" as far as keeping blood sugar in check, and when I'm "off it".

I have personally found that intermittent fasting and performing a fasted workout just before my feeding window opens totally sets me straight. It actually opens me up to being able to eat a little more carbohydrate than usual without the nasty roller coaster. I'm just more at ease, focused, relaxed, confident, less obsessive. When we get down to it, it comes down to dopamine and I'm much more regulated doing things this way.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. But I guess my ultimate question is - Can fasting and intermittent fasting reduce scalp inflammation and stop hair loss?

Has this been your experience?

AS54 wrote:There's no arguing that. What I've found to play out with me is that with intermittent fasting, during the periods where I'm fasting I feel very relaxed, acute, calm, clear headed. Thoughts come more quickly to me and I can reason through problems quickly. But soon after eating is when I notice my anxiety usually sets in. I have a harder time conceptualizing and forming mental images. I tend to get more obsessive tendencies. Nervousness.

Very interesting AS - that's 100% how I would describe it too. In addition, I find my senses are way more 'tuned in' - colours, smells, sounds etc take on almost a tangible quality.

AS54 wrote: I believe these issues are closely tied to blood sugar responses and we know that men with MPB have a more rapid rise and fall in blood sugar than other people. I think this roller coaster and many of the things I experience physically and mentally are tied to blood sugar. Its why consistent exercise and proper meal timing change me as a person. Its like night and day and I've had people comment on the difference in me, between when I'm "on it" as far as keeping blood sugar in check, and when I'm "off it".

I have personally found that intermittent fasting and performing a fasted workout just before my feeding window opens totally sets me straight. It actually opens me up to being able to eat a little more carbohydrate than usual without the nasty roller coaster. I'm just more at ease, focused, relaxed, confident, less obsessive. When we get down to it, it comes down to dopamine and I'm much more regulated doing things this way.

It's funny, I've been feeling that blood sugar has something to do with scalp tension, although I haven't been able to rationalise why - but as you say, it's a systemic thing.

Another thing i strongly recall during my fasting period, was the amount of sebum my scalp produced. I'd wake up each morning and my pillows would be saturated in grease. I'm not sure if it was the over production of sebaceous acids which caused my hair to shed or ketoacids, but, just to give you a heads up, I suffered all over diffuse thinning within a few weeks.

To elaborate, it was an intermittent fast which consisted of eating a few egg whites every two or three days. I don't know if it would make a difference (on hair) if you consumed a carb meal every few days, but i stuck to protein only. I shed a hell of a load of weight within 4 weeks (went from size 44 waist to 38), and was getting severe acidic diarreah.

But, anyway, without jumping to conclusions here, I am still curious as to what caused my hair to become incredibly healthy in the weeks following my food fast. when I was a proponent of the DHT clogging theory, I thought that all of the sebum being expelled from the scalp was DHT. whether this is true or not, the fast may have assisted in clearing waste matter from capillaries, reducing toxicity and inflammation. Perhaps intermittent fasting may work similar to DT with respect to cleansing the capillary network of shit.

I remember reading some health pamphlets by some scientist who said that fasting now and then was essential for clearing capillaries of waste matter. He said that not only does this create a toxic environment and stresses the lymphatic system, but it also prevents cells from receiving the adequate nutrients essential for health.

This may have been part of the reason why my hair become the healthiest I'd ever seen it when my fast was over.

P.S. I also remember how feminized the appearance of my skin became. This is what also made me assume that surplus DHT had been expelled from the skin. But the likelihood is, my testosterone levels probably lowered because my body began utilizing sterols for emergency energy conversion.

AS54 wrote:Great discussion. I agree with what CS said up above to a t.

I think the recent additions to this talk highlight a phenomenon I've found in myself and holds true for a lot of guys with MPB. The connections between MPB, insulin, and blood sugar roller coasters are there. There's no arguing that. What I've found to play out with me is that with intermittent fasting, during the periods where I'm fasting I feel very relaxed, acute, calm, clear headed. Thoughts come more quickly to me and I can reason through problems quickly. But soon after eating is when I notice my anxiety usually sets in. I have a harder time conceptualizing and forming mental images. I tend to get more obsessive tendencies. Nervousness. .

AS54 I've been on the Warrior Diet (Ori Hofmekler)...basically fasting for 18 hours then eating, for approximately 2 weeks and I to feel relaxed and calm during the fasting phase. I wonder if taking Stabilised r-Lipoic Acid prior to a meal may help stabilise the blood sugar thus feel less anxiety?

Also AS54, could we be getting anxious and nervous etc... after eating a meal because what we eat may not be our typical "ancestral" diet or it just doesn't suit the bodies metabolic type?

Elmo,

I really cannot say. I'm not the person to ask about IF effects on hair. I shaved to the skin over one year ago now so I wouldn't have noticed the effects either way as I shave each morning in the shower. I actually can't even stand the stubble anymore haha. When you get used to smooth skin up there, its hard going back. I love the feel of a fresh shave now. What I will say though i that a high carbohydrate meal always tended to coincide with reddened face and scalp. I'd notice a greater amount of itch on the scalp and it would become more pink relative to the unaffected skin.

Hairy,

That's certainly a thought, although I'm not sure my understanding of scalp tension is really concrete enough to begin understanding it as a cause of hair loss. If we could somehow make some connections between blood sugar fluctuations, psychological effects and muscular tension through the muscles of the kinetic chain on up through the neck, we might be able to get a framework going to do what you're saying. But its a whole lot of dot connecting so keep that in mind when deciding how much you want to invest in that idea. Not saying its not without merit or not worth exploring, but its stretching a lot of ideas and looking for the connectors. I like where your head is at though. I think psychologically, its easy to start making connections between our stress state and blood sugar and neurotransmitter levels. From there it would be a matter of connecting this to chronic effects on muscle tone due to that stress. And then somehow connecting that to the environment in the scalp and finally to how it would effect hair. I'm not sure I necessarily go for the galea restricting bloodflow, although its a popular idea.

Xenon,

Are you saying that your hair condition worsened while on the fast, and improved when you started eating normally again?

Kaz,

I like r-lipoic acid and acetyl l-carnitine with meals because it overall (perhaps along with the B vitamins and also some C) just reduces the burden placed on the body in metabolizing energy. Like any sort of engine, the conversion of energy is not without some cost and inefficiency. Long story short, you're getting more out of the energy you're consuming with less of the oxidative damage of extracting that energy. I like ALCAR with all of my meals containing fat just because at some level, those of us with blood sugar problems tend to have defects in fat metabolism and this helps immensely. Lipoic acid, rather than lowering blood sugar directly, acts to increase your sensitivity to insulin. It just means you are better able to clear your blood sugar. I don't believe its something we can take and just rid ourselves of the problem of consuming lots of carbohydrate. Rather, it is something that will lower the oxidative stress caused by blood sugar. Its still not going to stop your sugar levels from crashing if you spike your insulin, which is where I feel a lot of our psychological effects stem from. But it has other positive attributes. Germany has used it as a first line treatment in diabetic neuropathy for years because it is a strong antioxidant. It promotes better liver function and boosts glutathione levels. For blood sugar management, I think its great. Studies showing that it increased insulin sensitivity used daily doses of between 600 mg and 1800 mg. I believe somewhere around 800 is good.

To your second question, you could be looking at a lot of different reasons there. As far as not selecting "ancestral" foods, that addresses too many variables to really be specific. There are reasons why not being able to digest and assimilate regular parts of your diet could effect you. There are reasons why foods which you are directly sensitive to - wheat for example - can have psychological effects almost similar to addictive ups and downs. Obviously carbohydrate content and your ability to utilize it can have effects on you mentally - let alone the effects on gut bacteria which would probably lead to many, many effects on your whole organism that we aren't aware of. The metabolic typing factor is related to this ability to deal with energy, and if you are a "fast" oxidizer type, you extract energy from your carb a little too well, at the expense of your blood sugar and the redox system of the cell. Overall, the answer to your question is absolutely yes. Food selection will have a great many effects on you psychologically, for many different reasons. From a practical standpoint its best to try to establish a framework for how you should be eating and experiment on your own to see what works for you. If you try to delve too far into the minutia here you will get lost in a rabbit hole and could easily spend years and years trying to understand and connect the dots between your diet and your psychology. Academically thats fine, but in the meantime, find something that works and stick with it. I don't care whether you call the foods ancestral, primal, or whatever other label...just find what makes you feel good. Keep in mind that your exercise has an integral part in the way you deal with food too.

I will quote from my own website a paragraph that I believe sums this up about glucose/sugar metabolism.

"Live longer and grow your hair by reducing your insulin levels.

Lowering your insulin isn't everything, yet it is fundamental for everything else you do.  Insulin, as a matter of speaking is the "hormone of death."  A study on mice revealed an interesting finding.  Genetically altered mice rendered in a manner that allowed their fat cells to be unresponsive to insulin,  ate as much food as they desired.  Despite that, they remained thin.  While they actually consumed 55 percent more food than the control mice, they  had 70 percent less body fat than the control group.  Additionally, the genetically altered mice lived 18 percent longer than the control mice.  This study shows control of insulin is probably why calorie restriction helps with life extension.  However, it is the insulin control that is important, not necessarily the the amount of food consumed.  Insulin release is stimulated in response to grain, starch and sugar consumption.

Extended Longevity in Mice Lacking the Insulin Receptor in Adipose Tissue

Science 299 (5606): 572-574
According the results, published in the journal Nature, higher levels of reactive oxygen species (ROS) set off resistance, while low levels of reactive oxygen species decrease insulin resistance significantly.  

Nature. 2006 Apr 13;440(7086):944-8."

This is primarily why most of the supplements I take involve optimizing antioxidant enzymes and glucose modulation.

Going a bit further at least on the subject of fasting is that recent research shows that fasting improves concentration, mental faculties, energy, and perhaps just as important, repair.

xenon i had the same experience. i did a 36 hourish fast last week and i noticed on the second day, i woke up and my hair was grease central. to be honest, i have been shedding like a crazy man since then, but i did not think that was the cause, but it is possible it was. i thought it might be because my body is starting to return to normal from fin side effects (or so i hope) which is why i am fasting. i am planning on eating in excess and working out everyday for the next week and i will again try a fast, but this time i am going to go for at least 3 days with water only.. will let you know how it goes.

Anthony, that's what I'm saying, yes. I did start eating lots of mackerel rich in omega 3, but I don't know if that alone was responsible for causing my hair to become so healthy. The vertex area sustained the worst damage during the fast, and it took about a year to return to normal. The strange thing is, whenever I usually suffer inflammation it is always the temples and never the vertex, yet the opposite seemed to occur from fasting.

Sanderson, I also noticed that my face / forehead produced tons of grease, but I only recall the scalp suffering from severe inflammation during the fast. I guess I did take it a little too far over a 4 week period. it was pretty shocking when I saw how feminized my skin became. I wasn't the only one who noticed this either. I started looking like a guy on female HRT. Interestingly enough I saw some singer from that One Direction boy band who had been starving himself and his skin started to look feminized like mine did.





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