Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

Guys, enough with the name calling; it's as if you are all in grade school. We need to work together as a community and get the one result we are all looking for: hair growth. If we constantly bicker at each other, we get nowhere.

Talk like fucking gentlemen.

Growdamnit wrote:Guys, enough with the name calling; it's as if you are all in grade school. We need to work together as a community and get the one result we are all looking for: hair growth. If we constantly bicker at each other, we get nowhere.

Talk like fucking gentlemen.

I'm gonna chill from now on... Just wanted to lastly address ROFL and the shot he took at me and that was it. But really though, there is no difference between me stepping up to the plate and saying what I really feel without holding anything back and guys like ROFL and Odysseus trolling/being smart asses and calling people out trying to piss people off. They're both equally annoying and it should all stop.

None of the claims of regrowth from this method are exaggerated. I actually hope some of you don't get on this, you don't deserve it. Whiny, lazy little children. Pull your thumbs out of your vaginas and do the therapy or shut up.

Let's discuss ways we can improve on this. There is no more debate as far as I'm concerned over whether this works or not. So let's move on from that.

bananasinpajamas wrote:again. blood flow. scalp flexibility. where is the science to back up these as the cause of hair loss? this whole theory is based on a house of cards.

blood flow--its quite simple. hair transplants. for the vast majority of people the transplants do not fall out if taken from "safe" areas.

flexibility--everyone bags on maliniak, but even maliniak had better before and after pictures than DT!!! suddenly DT is treated as the holy grail and everyone is on board with the flexibility angle.

even if you refer back to the HK study, it does not reference calcification, ivory domes, or fibrosis. these are all things people on this thread have hypothesized about, which soon became solid fact.

Keanoseg wrote:It's funny how the most active thread on this forum is the easiest thing in the world you can do with your hands yet this entire thread is one big fight.

Jesus..No wonder Drex and Duke (some of the few actual committed "volunteers" of this experiment, and also photo/progress sharers), left this thread in disgust.

Keanoseg, soo true. The usual "calm" IH members are fighting over evidence from a manual method. Moreso bitching over an experiment from which not a single member here has completed the 10 month protocol (including the OP, Drex).

This is craziness..Chill the fuck out ladies.

Yes, some people are seeing results from this method and screaming "CURE", others arent seeing results, as yet. Both parties are too early to make the bold statement of "CURE" or "Snake Oil". No-one here has completed therapy, and therefor no-one has the experience to base results upon.

CS, among many others, has made the connection between calcification and many deficiencies associated with MPB (Vitamin D, K2, Omega Fish oils etc), including thyroid health, insulin resistance and heavy metals. Id suggest a readup of his research, bananas.
Breaking down this scalp calcification down manually is a fast way to resolve the problem and is one of the reasons why DT is propsed to work against hairloss, but IMO would better combined with supplements (such as organic sulphur sources like MSM, amongst other sources).

As for hair transplants, "butchers" usually prescribe anti-androgen drugs for maintenance as a temporary fix. No perminant cure there.

We are all in the same boat, yet some have different paddles-cant see a problem there aslong as we all hit land.
We have guys preaching about light energy. We have guys devoted to semen preservation. We have members chugging vitamins and suppliments like they are pennysweats. We have people like myself trying to manually unclog and pump blood to our nuggins, and we have blokes who feel more guilty about cheating on their diet than their other halfs.
Point is, this is a free space and a good community, lets keep an open mind. Also seen alog of thread clogging and negativity lately, all its doing it driving people away.

Had my word. I need sleep.

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:

Let's discuss ways we can improve on this. There is no more debate as far as I'm concerned over whether this works or not. So let's move on from that.

This. I've been trying to figure out another missing link. I don't think it's going to be as short as 10 months for me. It has completely cured my MPB itch and NOTHING has been able to do that, which means that DT lowers inflammation. At this point, I believe that's indisputable. It's also brought insane scalp health. But my progress has slowed. I'm working on adding some supplements, I imagine that is what I'm missing...

We need more guys experimenting and less bitching here. It's getting annoying. Is this the cure? Not necessarily, but it works better than anything else thus far. I think we've all proven that our scalp conditions before DT were absolutely terrible. But let's stop using the "C" word because there are too many people here who will freak out about it.

Or at least, wait until someone here regrows 100% of their hair. Then we can use the C word.

Hey everyone - as of today, I have completed the 10 month trial. I started last year at the end of September / beginning of October, and if I'm not mistaken Drex, nzbalda, and possibly others like TNT, RisingFist, bocor, and Dudebro (?), started at exactly the same time.

I've diligently done the method for 10 months, in the prescribed way, for the prescribed time every day, almost without fail (give or take a few days here and there). As some of you know, I am a ± NW6, have been losing my hair for about 20 years, and I've been what I would consider 'full on bald' for roughly 8 - 10 years, so my case is probably one of the most advanced on this forum.

Here are my completely honest, objective findings:

1) I have not regrown all my hair, not even close, in fact nobody I know has commented that there is any difference at all in my hair - but then, I didn't really expect that to happen within the 10 month time frame, it just seemed like too much of an ask (although I was secretly hoping to be pleasantly surprised).
2) There has definitely been an improvement. I have regrown vellus and terminal hair all over, but most noticeably in the frontal region, and just recently (in the last month or so) the terminal hairs have become noticeably thicker and darker, and they are growing at the same rate as the hairs on the side of my head. I would say that the density in the frontal region is not even half of what it should be, but it was definitely even worse than that when I started.
3) Although I would still consider myself roughly a NW6, it seems to gradually be moving towards NW5, and might even get there by end of 2014.
4) My overall scalp health is much, much better, and due to all the pressing, the scalp is now almost 100% following the undulations of the skull bone when I feel it with my fingers.
5) My scalp is much more flexible, and it seems like most of the hard tissue that I was clearly able to feel before has been broken down. In addition, I can scrunch the scalp around the horseshoe shape, whereas about 5 months ago I was barely able to. I will try to post the best comparison pics I can in a week or two when I take the next one.

So now what? Personally, I'm going to keep going and, if what I suspect is true, the yield will be unmistakeable by this time next year, and comparison pics will clearly show a difference of one or two Norwoods - in other words, I expect to be roughly NW4 by this time next year. The fact that I'm regrowing any hair at all is pretty amazing to me.

The hard truth is that manuals take time to really see a major, cosmetic difference IMO. 18 months at least, but probably more likely around 3 years onwards, depending on the severity of hairloss.

Would I recommend this to others? Yes, I would, particularly those who have relatively minor hairloss, or who have been balding for only a few years. If you asked me if I thought that this works, I'd have to say yes, but IMHO not in 10 months, unless your loss is very minor. This is definitely not for those who find it hard to start something and see it through though.

I suspect that Drex will post pics in the next few weeks, and hopefully others will too.

someone mentioned calcification. i know there is a lot of talk about calcification done by roddy and immortal, however i find it interesting that in all dissection of balding scalps observations of increased levels of PGD2 were found and evidence of microscopic fibrosis in the follicular sheath were found.

calcification of the tissue was never discussed, nor was fibrosis in scalp tissue, which is what people talk about regarding DT.

so i am just curious how everyone can be so sure that DT works because it reverses calcification and fibrosis of tissue when neither of these have been observed.

i know im supposed to STFU and spend 40 minutes a day and ditch every other method known to preserve hair because this is THEE cure, but I cant help it.

hairyshowers wrote:As for hair transplants, "butchers" usually prescribe anti-androgen drugs for maintenance as a temporary fix. No perminant cure there.

hair transplant surgeons recommend finasteride to preserve existing hair in the DHT zone that has not fallen out. after all, you dont want to have hair around your hairline and a big gap in the vertex and then more hair in the back.

hairyshowers wrote:The usual "calm" IH members are fighting over evidence from a manual method.

you know ive been calm throughout this. i started out by asking some questions about the method and asking politely for pictures. not demanding. not saying this method is crap, just wanting to see some good pics because the claims made were so bold and i was curious about the method.

as the emotional immature responses flowed, i started to be more critical of the method.

the young guys (sounds like they are young because both of them mentioned their moms complimenting them on regrowth i am assuming they must live at home or something) are getting riled up because what i say makes sense. im bursting their bubble.

once again, as you can see in the URL this is a discussion forum. if you cannot handle discussion and you just want people to cheerlead and say "good job curing baldness!", maybe douchebag vin diesel complexx, duketronix, and the rest should go somewhere else.

Keanoseg wrote:Man, bananas, I see where you're coming from but you are killing yourself with this waiting.

like ive said before, i am actually doing this method in addition to to other things, but i have questions. i feel like i am copernicus and this thread is the catholic church

and btw, i do not come here daily except for the past couple of days. in general i visit this site about once every two weeks.

Joey Ramone wrote:
Then leave it alone until some definitive proof comes out, no one's forcing you to read this thread. What's your agenda, dude?

im CEO of Propecia that is my agenda.

no actually i thought this was a discussion forum so i am discussing. i know, its crazy.

BelieveInIt wrote:
you're the perfect example of what's wrong with most people nowadays. no common sense but as soon there's a scientific paper sponsored by multimillion dollar lobbies they follow gladly, blindly and naively into profitable addiction like lemmings.

yes im a lemming with no common sense because i try to piece together multiple studies and I question everything.

but you read a "scientific" study with one bad picture, a retarded explanation about grease, logical fallacies, and diagrams drawn by a 4th grader using MS Paint from Windows 95, and you believe it wholeheartedly.

i never talked about the grease thing yet. your body is constantly making sebum whether its trapped in a pore or not. if you have 10 years worth of trapped sebum in a pore, you would have a blackhead the size of a marble. DT is not releasing 10 year old sebum. you are squeezing out new sebum when you do it. you could also get rid of that new sebum by washing your hair with soap. use some common sense.

bananasinpajamas wrote:

Keanoseg wrote:Man, bananas, I see where you're coming from but you are killing yourself with this waiting.

like ive said before, i am actually doing this method in addition to to other things, but i have questions. i feel like i am copernicus and this thread is the catholic church

and btw, i do not come here daily except for the past couple of days. in general i visit this site about once every two weeks.

Yup. . .

bananasinpajamas wrote:

BelieveInIt wrote:
you're the perfect example of what's wrong with most people nowadays. no common sense but as soon there's a scientific paper sponsored by multimillion dollar lobbies they follow gladly, blindly and naively into profitable addiction like lemmings.

yes im a lemming with no common sense because i try to piece together multiple studies and I question everything.

but you read a "scientific" study with one bad picture, a retarded explanation about grease, logical fallacies, and diagrams drawn by a 4th grader using MS Paint from Windows 95, and you believe it wholeheartedly.

i never talked about the grease thing yet. your body is constantly making sebum whether its trapped in a pore or not. if you have 10 years worth of trapped sebum in a pore, you would have a blackhead the size of a marble. DT is not releasing 10 year old sebum. you are squeezing out new sebum when you do it. you could also get rid of that new sebum by washing your hair with soap. use some common sense.

How could you be so sure about old sebum ? There is a theory and a few studies also, that says about sebaceous gland hypertrophy and accumulation of sebum that squeeze the follicles. By the time passing, i guess this trapped sebum become hard or even referred as fibrosis.

See this photo




I hope DT could work on that brown mixture in the root sheath by making it more flexible.

I don't say that this is the cause, but even if for the moment i have less hair from DT, i have the feeling that this technique has a lot to give.

bananasinpajamas wrote:

BelieveInIt wrote:
you're the perfect example of what's wrong with most people nowadays. no common sense but as soon there's a scientific paper sponsored by multimillion dollar lobbies they follow gladly, blindly and naively into profitable addiction like lemmings.

yes im a lemming with no common sense because i try to piece together multiple studies and I question everything.

but you read a "scientific" study with one bad picture, a retarded explanation about grease, logical fallacies, and diagrams drawn by a 4th grader using MS Paint from Windows 95, and you believe it wholeheartedly.

i never talked about the grease thing yet. your body is constantly making sebum whether its trapped in a pore or not. if you have 10 years worth of trapped sebum in a pore, you would have a blackhead the size of a marble. DT is not releasing 10 year old sebum. you are squeezing out new sebum when you do it. you could also get rid of that new sebum by washing your hair with soap. use some common sense.

buddy i believe i stated already i don't care much about the study. squeezing out sebum is bullshit IMO, softening and reviving the scalp, so that toxins or whatever can be washed away by blood flow is more what it actually is.
i don't believe in this study "wholeheartedly", but i believe in what i see with my own eyes in front of me in the mirror.

before doing DT i lost hair, now i'm regaining it, so i keep going. it's as simple as that.

and yes - without wanting to sound too harsh - you are a deluxe-lemming because you try to piece together multiple studies which means sooner or later you get stuck with something that sounds plausible, something that fits into your negative POV, because let's face it you don't seem to want DT to work.

and all this while i'm already regrowing my hair, gratz.

I know what his problem is cuz this used to be my exact problem with this. The thing is, this works. Period. Noone really knows how and why in details. But in order for bananas to completely lets himself to the flow of DT he "must" know how exactly this works and why. It's pretty obvious that "discussing" it here is kind of useless because we can't really make up why it works. There haven't been excessive studies done on it so that we have a lot of data to assemble together here and by ourselves we can only guess why it works. So, you are searching here for something which at this time and place isn't possible to acquire, except for the most probable predictions.

Hairy Potter wrote:Hey everyone - as of today, I have completed the 10 month trial. I started last year at the end of September / beginning of October, and if I'm not mistaken Drex, nzbalda, and possibly others like TNT, RisingFist, bocor, and Dudebro (?), started at exactly the same time.

Hi Hairy Potter. Thank you very much for your report. Great to read your post! I hope that your situation will improve! Thanks again. And please write how it is working for you past the 10 months mark! If you have photos, that you want to share - awesome!


To bana and all the others. Yes. I understand your scepticism. As others already wrote (as BelieveInIt) - I also doubt the grease-theory. But I agree with many others here, that there could be something, that helps with many problems as bloodflow, toxins, definitely fibrosis (PGD2) and possibly calcification. There are many studies that back these things up, as the video i posted a few weeks before:


And Complex - please don't kill this thread with personal attacks. This is a discussion-forum. On the other hand: bana you should know, that we will always find studies, that are contradictory.


I'm now in the 8th month of DT. On one hand I see much new vellus hair, but I still cannot say, if my status is really improving or not. My scalp is more flexible, than it was before. My scalp health is better. My skin is not inflamed anymore (my eczema has improved - but it is not only due to DT)...

As I don't even believe in my own observation (anecdotal evidence is no evidence) I take many photos. I will post them if there is something worth posting - but as I said: I don't claim any real results niether worsening.

fghjfghj wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:Hey everyone - as of today, I have completed the 10 month trial. I started last year at the end of September / beginning of October, and if I'm not mistaken Drex, nzbalda, and possibly others like TNT, RisingFist, bocor, and Dudebro (?), started at exactly the same time.  

Hi Hairy Potter. Thank you very much for your report. Great to read your post! I hope that your situation will improve! Thanks again. And please write how it is working for you past the 10 months mark! If you have photos, that you want to share - awesome!


To bana and all the others. Yes. I understand your scepticism. As others already wrote (as BelieveInIt) - I also doubt the grease-theory. But I agree with many others here, that there could be something, that helps with many problems as bloodflow, toxins, definitely fibrosis (PGD2) and possibly calcification. There are many studies that back these things up, as the video i posted a few weeks before:


And Complex - please don't kill this thread with personal attacks. This is a discussion-forum. On the other hand: bana you should know, that we will always find studies, that are contradictory.


I'm now in the 8th month of DT. On one hand I see much new vellus hair, but I still cannot say, if my status is really improving or not. My scalp is more flexible, than it was before. My scalp health is better. My skin is not inflamed anymore (my eczema has improved - but it is not only due to DT)...

As I don't even believe in my own observation (anecdotal evidence is no evidence) I take many photos. I will post them if there is something worth posting - but as I said: I don't claim any real results niether worsening.

You know, you're a funny guy trying to put all the blame on me when you know damn well we have a group of other smart asses in this room that provoke me.. but I already said I would chill, so why are you still on that subject?

You're also a very funny guy because you say one thing and then completely contradict yourself days later... For example: You said ten days ago something about you not being sure that your scalp was as loose as it should be on the top, but you felt you were doing it right? After 8 months your scalp was still tight and you felt you did it right? Haha ok and then today you say your scalp is looser and more flexible than it was before (congratulations) but before was like 10 days ago... So my questions to you is, do you really think your hair follicles are ready to respond like they're supposed to after receiving adequate amounts of blood flow (and not just blood flow, several other things are corrected as well when proper blood flow is restored and maintained) for 10 or so days?

I've said this OVER AND OVER AGAIN that you have to restore a healthy scalp and MAINTAIN a healthy scalp for a while before you see any real progress. I also laughed at the part when you said this "On one hand I see much new vellus hair, but I still cannot say, if my status is really improving or not. My scalp is more flexible, than it was before." INSERT YOUR CAPTION HERE on why you think I laughed at that statement.

So before you call me out, fix your issues first dude. Several people on here have acted like kids and I stepped up and admitted to it.. But I was not the only one.. period.

[/quote]I'm now in the 8th month of DT. On one hand I see much new vellus hair, but I still cannot say, if my status is really improving or not. My scalp is more flexible, than it was before. My scalp health is better. My skin is not inflamed anymore (my eczema has improved - but it is not only due to DT)...

As I don't even believe in my own observation (anecdotal evidence is no evidence) I take many photos. I will post them if there is something worth posting - but as I said: I don't claim any real results niether worsening.[/quote]

to me this honestly sounds like you're not even doing it right. or maybe you didn't mention it. but this doesn't only "loosen" the scalp. you should be breaking up and dislodging massive chunks of hard tissue underneath your scalp. this therapy is meant to be aggressive i believe as well. maybe that's why you're not growing lots of hair back. you should be destroying this tissue under your scalp. flattening your head. changing your head shape literally. you should feel and hear crunching going on. cracking. if none of these things are happening for people here, they're not doing this therapy right.

Complexx - I don't think that I completely contradict myself. I never stated, that my scalp is as loose as it "should" be. I only said, that my scalp is much looser, than it was before DT. Perhaps there is also some misunderstanding with "the top of the head". It is easy to pinch and lift the top-frontal part in every direction (that was not possible before DT). But it is still not as easy in the top-middle... I didn't make the progress in the last 10 days. The "before" was refererring to "before DT".

hiilikeyourbeard - I'm moving my scalp, pinching it in every possible direction. I'm doing it quite forcefully, I feel that my scalp is not "swollen" anymore (you probably call it "tissue under your scalp"), it is possible to "lift" my scalp everywhere while folding it at the frontal part of the top of my head (I mentioned it in my post some months ago, why I suggest everyone to do DT from time to time in front of a mirror)...
I had all these bumps under the skin that were reported and they disapeared. I had a light shedding after 1 month, that grew back.

To sum it up: Yes, I think I'm doing the deep tissue massage "right". Everything correlates with the observations that people are describing. There is no doubt about the change of the condition of my scalp. The only difficult part to loosen is my middle-top part which I'm working on.

I'm NW1-2. I only have a receding hairline - My skin doesn't shine through at other parts. So I try to grow hair at the most difficult part: the temples... To make my observation more clear for some: On the one hand I see more vellus on my temples. But it is too little - it could also be wishfull thinking. Even although I monitior this "progress" with super-closeups as Drexx does - hair needs so long to cycle - I can't judge if it is really a little more vellus, or if it is a normal coincidence that some hair is sprouting at this very moment, that is minaturized and will fall out. I'm doing closeup photos since 8 months - hair needs at least 4 months to cycle - so the described coincidence is as possible, as real regrowth progress.

For me - It is too early to say if this is working or not.

Greets.

Keanoseg wrote:I know what his problem is cuz this used to be my exact problem with this. The thing is, this works. Period. Noone really knows how and why in details. But in order for bananas to completely lets himself to the flow of DT he "must" know how exactly this works and why. It's pretty obvious that "discussing" it here is kind of useless because we can't really make up why it works. There haven't been excessive studies done on it so that we have a lot of data to assemble together here and by ourselves we can only guess why it works. So, you are searching here for something which at this time and place isn't possible to acquire, except for the most probable predictions.

Hi Keanoseg

The reason why I would like to know more about how it really works, is because we do not know if it really works.

I define "works" as producing results better or comparable to other treatments

Im sure people have regrown some hair, but from what we have seen and what has been described, its not a fullblown cure yet.

Some vellus. Some very short terminals. Currently we have seen better results from minox, finasteride, LLLT, derma rolling etc.

I am hopeful, but was just hoping we could discuss in the meantime.

fghjfghj wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:Hey everyone - as of today, I have completed the 10 month trial. I started last year at the end of September / beginning of October, and if I'm not mistaken Drex, nzbalda, and possibly others like TNT, RisingFist, bocor, and Dudebro (?), started at exactly the same time.  

Hi Hairy Potter. Thank you very much for your report. Great to read your post! I hope that your situation will improve! Thanks again. And please write how it is working for you past the 10 months mark! If you have photos, that you want to share - awesome!


To bana and all the others. Yes. I understand your scepticism. As others already wrote (as BelieveInIt) - I also doubt the grease-theory. But I agree with many others here, that there could be something, that helps with many problems as bloodflow, toxins, definitely fibrosis (PGD2) and possibly calcification. There are many studies that back these things up, as the video i posted a few weeks before:


And Complex - please don't kill this thread with personal attacks. This is a discussion-forum. On the other hand: bana you should know, that we will always find studies, that are contradictory.


I'm now in the 8th month of DT. On one hand I see much new vellus hair, but I still cannot say, if my status is really improving or not. My scalp is more flexible, than it was before. My scalp health is better. My skin is not inflamed anymore (my eczema has improved - but it is not only due to DT)...

As I don't even believe in my own observation (anecdotal evidence is no evidence) I take many photos. I will post them if there is something worth posting - but as I said: I don't claim any real results niether worsening.

that video is great. i referenced this japanese study before and theorized that might actually be what is happening here--we are releasing growth factors via stretching the scalp. nothing to do with breaking up calcification/fibrosis.

the same thing would happen with maliniak scalp stretching. the same thing would happen with toweling and bristle brushing as well as guasha. coincidentally studies on guasha have also measured an increase of growth factors.

why is this important? if this is true then you can focus on stretching and sliding your scalp and not waste energy on pinching or crushing your skin. and because you can use a tool (such as the thick wooden brush used by the guy on the russian forum to slide the scalp) to make it easier and quicker to perform this on a daily basis.

That is true however DT obviously does more things then. Just the kneading pressure in massage therapy is beneficial for systematic blood and lymph flow anyywhere on the body, so I'd suspect it does the same in scalp. Possibilities? Better lymph,blood flow to flush out and reestablish healthy circulation along with the scalp dimensions so it's top notch. An increase in growth factors after massaging forcefully. Reduction of chronic inflammation...keep em coming.

Btw to bana and others, there are studies showing scalp soft tissue calcification and fibrosis, as well as vascular calcification, both of which are blocking nutrient supply. I remember seeing those studies on this forum somewhere as well as reading some others on Pubmed. However they are hard to find and are expressed in medical terms you can't just type "scalp calcification" and find them. Maybe 1 or 2.

Keanoseg wrote:Btw to bana and others, there are studies showing scalp soft tissue calcification and fibrosis, as well as vascular calcification, both of which are blocking nutrient supply. I remember seeing those studies on this forum somewhere as well as reading some others on Pubmed. However they are hard to find and are expressed in medical terms you can't just type "scalp calcification" and find them. Maybe 1 or 2.

if you ever find them let us know! i'd love to read these.

Hairy Potter wrote:Hey everyone - as of today, I have completed the 10 month trial. I started last year at the end of September / beginning of October, and if I'm not mistaken Drex, nzbalda, and possibly others like TNT, RisingFist, bocor, and Dudebro (?), started at exactly the same time.

Thanks for sharing such a detailed description. These are good (and realistic, in the same time) news. I really hope there shall be a turning point from where things will speed up.