Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

ANewHope wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:Hey everyone - as of today, I have completed the 10 month trial. I started last year at the end of September / beginning of October, and if I'm not mistaken Drex, nzbalda, and possibly others like TNT, RisingFist, bocor, and Dudebro (?), started at exactly the same time.

Thanks for sharing such a detailed description. These are good (and realistic, in the same time) news. I really hope there shall be a turning point from where things will speed up.

Thanks my friend - I hope so too, for everyone here :-)

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:if you ever find them let us know! i'd love to read these.

Found some soft tissue calcification studies that weren't in the scalp, however the result was chronic tissue inflammation. Also there's a bunch of studies done on rats that you can find online which are exactly the same. I'm sure if I spent a few hours just searching for that I'd find something but there really aren't much scalp studies apart from the ones that are intended to push propecia and other drugs through ofc. Like this one for fibrosis for instance

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16755026

http://www.wikigenes.org/e/ref/e/19527330.html - more fibrosis tied with inflammation and aga, drugs not included

There is evidence that BMP-2 is responsible for vascular calcification and mineralization of the extracellular matrix, effectively calcifying soft tissue. In such a scenario, there is a loss of Matrix Gla Protein.  This is where Vitamin K2 steps in and reverses this process. - CS quoting a study about calcification

http://emboj.embopress.org/content/19/24/6664

There are more resources it's just that you'll hardly find a study which doesn't include minoxidil or finasteride or etc.

Also people bash the classic "Ivory dome" study but the calcification that is mentioned there pretty much ties it all together. If there is chronic inflammation due to xyz reason not only the bones will calcify but also the tissue that it's connected with, causing pressure to the veins and arteries and inducing fibrosis etc.

CONCLUSIONS:

Soft-tissue fibrosis is associated with impairment in lymphatic regeneration and lymphatic function. These defects occur as a consequence of impaired lymphatic endothelial cell proliferation, abnormal lymphatic microarchitecture, and lymphatic fibrosis. Inhibition of fibrosis using a simple topical dressing can markedly accelerate lymphatic repair and promote regeneration of normal capillary lymphatics.  - also something that could explain "grease" as swollen lymphedema along with everything else.

There are also studies which show that deep tissue massage helps with calcified and fibrous tissue.

Keanoseg wrote:I know what his problem is cuz this used to be my exact problem with this. The thing is, this works. Period. Noone really knows how and why in details. But in order for bananas to completely lets himself to the flow of DT he "must" know how exactly this works and why. It's pretty obvious that "discussing" it here is kind of useless because we can't really make up why it works. There haven't been excessive studies done on it so that we have a lot of data to assemble together here and by ourselves we can only guess why it works. So, you are searching here for something which at this time and place isn't possible to acquire, except for the most probable predictions.

Excellent post.

A general question regarding the DT therapy - does anyone combine it with laser for more stimulation and have some feedback, good or bad?

Thanks

This is unrelated to any questions posted in this thread. However its something i feel is important, certainly for me, to remind ourselves of on this journey. Patience is absolutely key when it comes to hair matters, I think it is ridiculous when people expect to see results in 3 months and even 6 months. These people will be sorely disappointed and will most likely fail in restoring their hair. I know that the DT study claims that regrowth could be seen in 10 months but frankly I can't quite believe that. Both Minoxidil and Finasteride can also take at least a year to begin to show progress.

The reason why I believe that more people don't see results, and it has been mentioned before, is that they simply don't have the patience and dedication. Admittedly it is a big ask and we need to remember this, 40 minutes a day of labouring on your scalp is time consuming, and at times may seem pointless.

What we need to come to terms with as sufferers of this truly awful affliction is that its going to take time and possibly a lot of time to see results. Anyone who sticks to this as recommended for 20 months will get results. BUt to expect anything more than that is silly and delusional.

I get really depressed and down about my hair, it fucks up everything for me, its sounds melodramatic but i'm sure most will agree when i say it can be crippling. I really hope i have the balls to stick this out for the long haul. I've seen results doing this before I just hope i can do it again.

schpiloch123 wrote:This is unrelated to any questions posted in this thread. However its something i feel is important, certainly for me, to remind ourselves of on this journey. Patience is absolutely key when it comes to hair matters, I think it is ridiculous when people expect to see results in 3 months and even 6 months. These people will be sorely disappointed and will most likely fail in restoring their hair. I know that the DT study claims that regrowth could be seen in 10 months but frankly I can't quite believe that. Both Minoxidil and Finasteride can also take at least a year to begin to show progress.

The reason why I believe that more people don't see results, and it has been mentioned before, is that they simply don't have the patience and dedication. Admittedly it is a big ask and we need to remember this, 40 minutes a day of labouring on your scalp is time consuming, and at times may seem pointless.

What we need to come to terms with as sufferers of this truly awful affliction is that its going to take time and possibly a lot of time to see results. Anyone who sticks to this as recommended for 20 months will get results. BUt to expect anything more than that is silly and delusional.

I get really depressed and down about my hair, it fucks up everything for me, its sounds melodramatic but i'm sure most will agree when i say it can be crippling. I really hope i have the balls to stick this out for the long haul. I've seen results doing this before  I just hope i can do it again.

Stop. Just stop. Regrowth is possible in as little as three months, and this isn't even with DT. I've seen it with my owns eyes. But DT is the holy grail.

I do agree with you about patience though and everything else, man. Hair loss has REALLY tested my patience. We all gotta stick this out and see it through. I plan on doing this treatment for at least 2 years no matter what my results are at the end of 10 months. Cheers.

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:

schpiloch123 wrote:This is unrelated to any questions posted in this thread. However its something i feel is important, certainly for me, to remind ourselves of on this journey. Patience is absolutely key when it comes to hair matters, I think it is ridiculous when people expect to see results in 3 months and even 6 months. These people will be sorely disappointed and will most likely fail in restoring their hair. I know that the DT study claims that regrowth could be seen in 10 months but frankly I can't quite believe that. Both Minoxidil and Finasteride can also take at least a year to begin to show progress.

The reason why I believe that more people don't see results, and it has been mentioned before, is that they simply don't have the patience and dedication. Admittedly it is a big ask and we need to remember this, 40 minutes a day of labouring on your scalp is time consuming, and at times may seem pointless.

What we need to come to terms with as sufferers of this truly awful affliction is that its going to take time and possibly a lot of time to see results. Anyone who sticks to this as recommended for 20 months will get results. BUt to expect anything more than that is silly and delusional.

I get really depressed and down about my hair, it fucks up everything for me, its sounds melodramatic but i'm sure most will agree when i say it can be crippling. I really hope i have the balls to stick this out for the long haul. I've seen results doing this before  I just hope i can do it again.

Stop. Just stop. Regrowth is possible in as little as three months, and this isn't even with DT. I've seen it with my owns eyes. But DT is the holy grail.

I do agree with you about patience though and everything else, man. Hair loss has REALLY tested my patience. We all gotta stick this out and see it through. I plan on doing this treatment for at least 2 years no matter what my results are at the end of 10 months. Cheers.

i agree, if you do it right you should notice first results (first terminal in corners of widows peak) after about 2-3 months.
i recently cut off my hair down to 4cm on top and was amazed at how much better it stood and looked compared to 2 years ago.

BelieveInIt wrote:

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:

schpiloch123 wrote:This is unrelated to any questions posted in this thread. However its something i feel is important, certainly for me, to remind ourselves of on this journey. Patience is absolutely key when it comes to hair matters, I think it is ridiculous when people expect to see results in 3 months and even 6 months. These people will be sorely disappointed and will most likely fail in restoring their hair. I know that the DT study claims that regrowth could be seen in 10 months but frankly I can't quite believe that. Both Minoxidil and Finasteride can also take at least a year to begin to show progress.

The reason why I believe that more people don't see results, and it has been mentioned before, is that they simply don't have the patience and dedication. Admittedly it is a big ask and we need to remember this, 40 minutes a day of labouring on your scalp is time consuming, and at times may seem pointless.

What we need to come to terms with as sufferers of this truly awful affliction is that its going to take time and possibly a lot of time to see results. Anyone who sticks to this as recommended for 20 months will get results. BUt to expect anything more than that is silly and delusional.

I get really depressed and down about my hair, it fucks up everything for me, its sounds melodramatic but i'm sure most will agree when i say it can be crippling. I really hope i have the balls to stick this out for the long haul. I've seen results doing this before  I just hope i can do it again.

Stop. Just stop. Regrowth is possible in as little as three months, and this isn't even with DT. I've seen it with my owns eyes. But DT is the holy grail.

I do agree with you about patience though and everything else, man. Hair loss has REALLY tested my patience. We all gotta stick this out and see it through. I plan on doing this treatment for at least 2 years no matter what my results are at the end of 10 months. Cheers.

i agree, if you do it right you should notice first results (first terminal in corners of widows peak) after about 2-3 months.
i recently cut off my hair down to 4cm on top and was amazed at how much better it stood and looked compared to 2 years ago.

This. Best way to gauge for me has been let it grow a month, cut it down. Every time it looks better and better.

For one more time, could someone who's seen regrowth from DT tell me if he pop out grease  or any kind of white substance?

A friend of mine, has seen a few times a white liquid popping out when he squeezes and after that, he saw a lot of vellus hair.

I've been trying with every way, my fingers hurts whole day from the pressing but no grease, only some bumps.

Maybe i need more time?

5 Months, 1 Week in: Both temples are noticeably thinner and closer to the bone (as stated what would happen in article). The "swollen" bumps are shrinking significantly. Vellus hair is visible on both temples, but no regrowth past that. I am losing more on my left temple and shedding a significant amount. This shed is the worst I have experienced in such a short timeframe. I truly hope it starts to look up once I flatten my scalp tissue a bit more.

For what it's worth, I am NOT taking pictures and tracking my progress. So, perhaps there is regrowth I just cannot see yet, or my scalp is just prepping itself for a burst of regrowth in later months. I suppose time can only tell and I'll continue to update as I see regression or progression.

Growdamnit wrote:5 Months, 1 Week in: Both temples are noticeably thinner and closer to the bone (as stated what would happen in article). The "swollen" bumps are shrinking significantly. Vellus hair is visible on both temples, but no regrowth past that. I am losing more on my left temple and shedding a significant amount. This shed is the worst I have experienced in such a short timeframe. I truly hope it starts to look up once I flatten my scalp tissue a bit more.

For what it's worth, I am NOT taking pictures and tracking my progress. So, perhaps there is regrowth I just cannot see yet, or my scalp is just prepping itself for a burst of regrowth in later months. I suppose time can only tell and I'll continue to update as I see regression or progression.

make sure the entire middle top region is loose and that you can feel every spot on your scalp LIFT off the bone when you fold it up. progress sped up noticeably after i achieved that.

Whilst I hear and believe what you guys are saying about regrowth I think it is important to remember that for SOME people who have perhaps been losing their hair for years and years it may take a substantial amount of time to achieve cosmetically significant results.

BelieveInIt wrote:

Growdamnit wrote:5 Months, 1 Week in: Both temples are noticeably thinner and closer to the bone (as stated what would happen in article). The "swollen" bumps are shrinking significantly. Vellus hair is visible on both temples, but no regrowth past that. I am losing more on my left temple and shedding a significant amount. This shed is the worst I have experienced in such a short timeframe. I truly hope it starts to look up once I flatten my scalp tissue a bit more.

For what it's worth, I am NOT taking pictures and tracking my progress. So, perhaps there is regrowth I just cannot see yet, or my scalp is just prepping itself for a burst of regrowth in later months. I suppose time can only tell and I'll continue to update as I see regression or progression.

make sure the entire middle top region is loose and that you can feel every spot on your scalp LIFT off the bone when you fold it up. progress sped up noticeably after i did that.

I'm 4 months and a half months into it and I'm just about able to lift my scalp off the bone as you described. The top middle area is now loose, whereas it was the tightest part on my head not two months ago. Overal, my scalp is looser, hair less greasy, but I'm getting more small bumps all over my head. I've also lost a lot of density over this period, NW3 to NW4.5. There also seems to be a few terminal hairs along my temples and they are lower than my already slightly receded hairline. I'm not really tracking my progress so I won't know for sure what it actually is, I'm just going to carry on with this and hope for the best.

Although the study say 20 minutes day and night it should be done for longer for those with a larger area to cover. Doing the massage on the area the size of an inch compared to an area of a few inches will bare different results surely! I think if the area is larger dedicate more time to ensure your working each part effectively. As long as each part has been worked to the point where it's having the positive effect need (breaking up thickened cartilage which is preventing stems cells making new hairs) that's all that matters.

Update for NW3V:

More than five months in and, according to my photo comparisons, I'm VERY SLOWLY getting regrowth on my crown. It's still a shadow of hair by eye, but the camera really picks up every bit of hair. Again, TAKE PHOTOS, EVERYONE. How many times do we have to say this shit?

Drex's cross-hatching technique has really broken up the crap under my scalp - it has sounded like popcorn!

The cracking has pretty much gone now, so I'm guessing I've broken a lot of that stuff up. I won't stop pinching and stretching, of course.

Had a bad shed a few weeks ago, but that has stopped for the time being.

My front bit of hair has slightly widened, too. Temples are vellus; terminals here and there.

Ten months and full regrowth? Bullshit. Maybe if I were a NW1! If this does work, then it'll be a few years at least, I think. But that's okay - I'm in this for the long haul.

MrGalea wrote:Update for NW3V:

More than five months in and, according to my photo comparisons, I'm VERY SLOWLY getting regrowth on my crown. It's still a shadow of hair by eye, but the camera really picks up every bit of hair. Again, TAKE PHOTOS, EVERYONE. How many times do we have to say this shit?

Drex's cross-hatching technique has really broken up the crap under my scalp - it has sounded like popcorn!

The cracking has pretty much gone now, so I'm guessing I've broken a lot of that stuff up. I won't stop pinching and stretching, of course.

Had a bad shed a few weeks ago, but that has stopped for the time being.

My front bit of hair has slightly widened, too. Temples are vellus; terminals here and there.

Ten months and full regrowth? Bullshit. Maybe if I were a NW1! If this does work, then it'll be a few years at least, I think. But that's okay - I'm in this for the long haul.

I have to say, I'm with you on the timeframe that this will work in MrGalea, although, I do believe that those who have minor hair loss could possible see complete regrowth within the 10 month period.

I just shaved my head on a No.1 again this morning, which I do once a month or so, and I could notice how much the hairs on the frontal region have improved, both in thickness of individual hairs, and in overall density. This is definitely working - which I was not really confident saying for most of the 10 months.

I've just clicked over onto the 11 month mark, and I'm noticing that some of the terminals which have been there for some time are the same thickness as the hair on the back and sides now. When I talk about an increase in density, there are very definitely new hairs which are not vellus - they're very fine, but they're darker than vellus and growing normally, and slowly but surely they're beginning to fill in the areas closest to the 'hairline' which have been nothing but vellus for quite a few years now.

If everything continues the way it has been going, which I expect it will, those fine dark hairs will thicken in the next few months and there will be new fine, dark hairs popping up to increase the density even more.

Also, as I was looking closely a few days ago, I noticed that some of the darker hairs were different lengths, implying that the shorter ones could be new. I am noticing this for the first time since I began manuals just over a year ago (I started with Margo Method first about beginning of July 2013, and still do it in addition to DT).

I think that photos between now and this time next year are going to show some pretty exciting improvement.

Hairy Potter have you noticed any grease coming out or something else?

TNT wrote:Hairy Potter have you noticed any grease coming out  or something else?

Hey TNT - yes, my scalp gets very greasy when I do DT. I suspect most guys who are doing this find that.

i think that the 10 months timeframe is only accurate if you lost your hair very recently OR if It is only the timeframe til all the potential follicles produce something that can be very tolerantly considered "hair" again, vellus included. and if you are totally bald you can probably expect another 2 years in addition til all the vellus has made it to strong terminal.
i mentioned it a few times: it also takes very long for some/most children to develop thick full hair after they're born.

also i guess most of us (myself included) did not start the optimal way, i was focusing mainly on my balding parts giving the top middle were the scalp is (always and in everybody) the tightest very little attention because i was lazy, and while i got already regrowth back then i feel the process developed to the next level only recently when i realized it had to be loose everywhere and that you have to be "able to lift the scalp from the underlying bone when you squeeze it together with both hands."
lately i seem to be sounding like a broken record because of how often i repeat that phrase but i consider it very critical because it describes what needs to happen even to a noob who just read the last part of the thread. maybe only at that degree of looseness the subcutanious fatty layer can re-build itself, when there is space for it to crawl in. just guessing.

grease- no grease or bumps anymore only had them in the first days when i was working on still very hard tissue. in the first days and then on top when i started working  the middle section to looseness a few months ago.

Hairy Potter wrote:
I have to say, I'm with you on the timeframe that this will work in MrGalea, although, I do believe that those who have minor hair loss could possible see complete regrowth within the 10 month period.

Agreed. Im approaching the 9 month mark and definately dont think I will hit full regrowth in another month. Not by eye anyway. That said, things are still improving every day and im sure I will get all the way back to NW1 with patience (why should I stop a free therapy if I continue seeing results?).

TNT wrote:
Hairy Potter have you noticed any grease coming out or something else?

TNT, im sure almost everyone doing DT has observed grease being pumped out of their pores at some point (myself included). Its a good sign and the grease will diminish over time.

Still eagerly awaiting drex's final update.

Keep it up people.

Hi guys. I followed this topic for a while now and i decided to give it a go. Just one question for now, do you think that this will work for someone who also has seb derm??

Anyways, good luck to all of us   

I have seb derm and I'm about 1.5 months in. So far I've lost quite a bit of ground mainly on my left temple, which sucks because I felt like I had stabilized for quite a while until I started doing this. Also I get inflammation there again, which I hadn't had for a long time. Not sure if the DT could cause the inflammation or if its regular inflammation just from having MPB and seb derm.

Hairy Potter wrote:

TNT wrote:Hairy Potter have you noticed any grease coming out  or something else?

Hey TNT - yes, my scalp gets very greasy when I do DT. I suspect most guys who are doing this find that.

I was on DT occasionally for 5 min/day for a few months, but in the last month i am in for full 40min/day.
I press really hard, but still no grease for me...

TNT wrote:

Hairy Potter wrote:

TNT wrote:Hairy Potter have you noticed any grease coming out  or something else?

Hey TNT - yes, my scalp gets very greasy when I do DT. I suspect most guys who are doing this find that.

I was on DT occasionally for 5 min/day for a few months, but in the last month i am in for full 40min/day.
I press really hard, but still no grease for me...

I wouldn't be concerned about that - I think some people just naturally produce more sebum. For example, my skin has always been more on the oily side.

Adding my name to the list as well. I'm 1.5 months in, 10-60 minutes per day, whatever I'm feeling up to. I had grease come out the first week of DT, and none since. Also in the first week, I flattened a bulbous protrusion at the very front of the widow peak that I thought was skull. Ever since then, it's flattened out, very close to the bone with not much padding, and the skin is very rough. If I use my nails I can slough off some dried skin. I hope this is a good sign!

What I'm having problems with is kneading this thickened layer. Is it almost like a putty substance under your skin? Like really deep? If I knead and push, I can literally move small portions of this "stuff" to nearby sections of my head. Like I'm bulldozing land. In the second week, I pushed a small hard chunk from my upper temple, down to my forehead, where it felt like a tiny glass shard under the skin. That's when I first realized there's something to this! But I'm having problems keeping these thick areas flattened. Within an hour or overnight, they return to the prior thickness (maybe a little less, but still can knead deep craters). Hopefully the coming months will see these areas gradually flatten.

For the record, my problem area is the temples, and the rigid buildup is within an inch above each temple, the whole perimeter.