Densiti and modern equol solutions

CausticSymmetry wrote:Swimmy - You would probably be better off taking this product due to the correct amount of Daidzein and Genistein in it.

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Genistein-Soy-Complex-1000-mg-120-Tablets/1193?at=0

I'll give this stuff a go with my densiti

CausticSymmetry wrote:Swimmy - You would probably be better off taking this product due to the correct amount of Daidzein and Genistein in it.

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Genistein-Soy-Complex-1000-mg-120-Tablets/1193?at=0

This sounds really good to me

It seems almost like.. the secret to Japan's great hair and lack of MPB... is primarily soy, and seaweed

I'm not sure which seaweed it is that encourages equol production.. I'm still learning!

But yes, that coupled with their huge intake of dietary fish makes for an astounding diet in terms of killing MPB I think! The seaweed also of course provides them with a brilliant source of iodine, which I assume is why the goitrogenic effects of the soy don't show themselves? Are they also less pronounced in the fermented soy?

I am quite excited about all this! ^_^

Hoppipolla wrote:
It seems almost like.. the secret to Japan's great hair and lack of MPB... is primarily soy, and seaweed

I'm not sure which seaweed it is that encourages equol production.. I'm still learning!

But yes, that coupled with their huge intake of dietary fish makes for an astounding diet in terms of killing MPB I think! The seaweed also of course provides them with a brilliant source of iodine, which I assume is why the goitrogenic effects of the soy don't show themselves? Are they also less pronounced in the fermented soy?

I am quite excited about all this! ^_^

I disagree. Although Japanese eat quite a lot of good food, the main thing that stands out is the lack of bad food and processed food compared to other civilized nations. There have been a wide variety of diets among 'uncivilized' people, yet they seem to do well upon all of these diets. Read Weston Price's work and you'll get a better idea of healthy diets.

What you avoid is just as important as what you actually eat.

They do have a very healthy diet in general, but it has to be said that a small group of key components (soy, green tea, seaweed and fish) is basically a regimen in itself especially if you take them over a considerable period of time

I just got an e-mail back from the makers of Densiti! I e-mailled them to ask about international shipping, to compliment them on their product, and to ask why it is that the bacteria Lactobacillus acidophilus are taken separately. I got a very friendly e-mail back from the Preisdent and Chief Scientist of the company, just saying that the bacteria must be kept cold to preserve a high number of CFUs, and that they are planning to ship to many places in time! They seem pretty hard at work over there - I think we'll see some big changes from them!

Man I hope it goes well, it would be great to see a viable, healthier alternative to finasteride from a well-intentioned company

A step in the right direction methinks, and one step closer to a cure ^_^

so has anyone started the equol producing regemin?

i would like to know if sides DO occur, which should materialise in about 2/3 weeks to 1/2months??
it seems logical to think they would?,
"equol handcuffs dht, rendering it useless" - this is pretty much the same thing fin does? but via different pathway, no??

also can someone link me to the guy who has claimed sucess from this before?

I have the pills but wont start till Friday.

You shouldn't have any side effects from equol.

Hoppipolla wrote:I just got an e-mail back from the makers of Densiti! I e-mailled them to ask about international shipping, to compliment them on their product, and to ask why it is that the bacteria Lactobacillus acidophilus are taken separately. I got a very friendly e-mail back from the Preisdent and Chief Scientist of the company, just saying that the bacteria must be kept cold to preserve a high number of CFUs, and that they are planning to ship to many places in time! They seem pretty hard at work over there - I think we'll see some big changes from them!

Man I hope it goes well, it would be great to see a viable, healthier alternative to finasteride from a well-intentioned company

A step in the right direction methinks, and one step closer to a cure ^_^

You probably should asked them more questions. What makes their product special and why it has a patent.

Swimmy wrote:I have the pills but wont start till Friday.

You shouldn't have any side effects from equol.

are you sure about this? it just seems logical for side effects, sexual etc to occur when messing with dht?

I do side with the logic that says they shouldn't be as bad as fin or dut sides, although yeah I would be amazed (or rather amazingly impressed) if there were NO sides!

I believe that by merely mopping up the DHT in the bloodstream and not actually inhibiting it's production, the chances of sides is significantly reduced. In addition, I would also hasten a guess that there is less chance of making your hair follicles become gradually more sensitive over time, so that is a big plus for me

I ordered the two bottle trial for $12 and started today. I'll only be taking 1 capsule a day and 40 mg of soy isoflavones via supplement rather than soy milk due to being prone to hyperthyroidism (both unfermented soy and green tea increase thyroid activity). Also, I take 5 mg of Finasteride a day so I doubt it will do much for me hair wise. However, I'm hopefull it will help with acne and the excess DHT being produced by the type 1 5ar enzyme. It is on this basis that I will determine whether or not this is effective (for me at least).

Hoppipolla wrote:I do side with the logic that says they shouldn't be as bad as fin or dut sides, although yeah I would be amazed (or rather amazingly impressed) if there were NO sides!

I believe that by merely mopping up the DHT in the bloodstream and not actually inhibiting it's production, the chances of sides is significantly reduced. In addition, I would also hasten a guess that there is less chance of making your hair follicles become gradually more sensitive over time, so that is a big plus for me

i just hope this is the case!!!

update us of your progress, have you started already?

baller234 wrote:I ordered the two bottle trial for $12 and started today. I'll only be taking 1 capsule a day and 40 mg of soy isoflavones via supplement rather than soy milk due to being prone to hyperthyroidism (both unfermented soy and green tea increase thyroid activity). Also, I take 5 mg of Finasteride a day so I doubt it will do much for me hair wise. However, I'm hopefull it will help with acne and the excess DHT being produced by the type 1 5ar enzyme. It is on this basis that I will determine whether or not this is effective (for me at least).

If you're already taking Finasteride, what's the point? How will you know whether the product is working or not?

Odysseus

baller234 wrote:I ordered the two bottle trial for $12 and started today. I'll only be taking 1 capsule a day and 40 mg of soy isoflavones via supplement rather than soy milk due to being prone to hyperthyroidism (both unfermented soy and green tea increase thyroid activity). Also, I take 5 mg of Finasteride a day so I doubt it will do much for me hair wise. However, I'm hopefull it will help with acne and the excess DHT being produced by the type 1 5ar enzyme. It is on this basis that I will determine whether or not this is effective (for me at least).

baller234 wrote:I ordered the two bottle trial for $12 and started today. I'll only be taking 1 capsule a day and 40 mg of soy isoflavones via supplement rather than soy milk due to being prone to hyperthyroidism (both unfermented soy and green tea increase thyroid activity). Also, I take 5 mg of Finasteride a day so I doubt it will do much for me hair wise. However, I'm hopefull it will help with acne and the excess DHT being produced by the type 1 5ar enzyme. It is on this basis that I will determine whether or not this is effective (for me at least).

Actually I always thought soy in fact suppressed thyroid function if anything, which is probably less of an issue with fermented soy. Are you sure they both increase thyroid activity?

[quote="gutted"]

Hoppipolla wrote:update us of your progress, have you started already?

No not yet, I'm in the UK so of course it isn't quite as easy to get some at the moment

Hopefully, I shall begin within a couple of weeks!

Are there any worries about increased estrogen production due to soy intake

I second this question. I allways thought that men should avoid estrogen (foods) like soy??
I´m a bit confused here

Ah I just got a message from the creator of Densiti again, and he is saying it is important to follow the instructions on the Densiti website and drink soy milk and eat the probiotic yoghurt, as opposed to just taking for example soy isoflavones. Apparently they achieved much better results with the combination described on the site.

Oh, and regarding the estrogenic properties of soy, you may be right there. However, sometimes something can have both good and bad effects, and it's really about deciding if you feel that one outweighs the other. For example, if I do decide to start on Densiti (I am actually considering something else a bit at present, not because I don't think equol would be effective but because I am curious about a different approach) I will have effectively made the decision that mopping up my DHT is worth the possible increase in estrogen and thyroid suppressive effects, and so may try to offset these with DIM/GSE and iodine. However, I believe fermented soy may be considerably better.

Hoppi,

From my understanding soy isoflavones are capable of binding to Thyroxine binding globulin. They don't actually block thyroid hormone production, they just block the receptor site that T4 binds too. If iodine and selenium intake are sufficient and copper and zinc are in balance, then the thyroid produces more thyroxine to compensate. However if any of the former are insufficient, then thyroid activity slows. So it really depends on your diet (mainly copper and zinc-copper slows thyroid down, zinc speeds it up).

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=920780&jid=BJN&volumeId=95&issueId=06&aid=920772

which probiotics are needed to make equol? ive got my egcg, and my soy isoflavones. i also have http://www.iherb.com/New-Chapter-Organics-Probiotic-All-Flora-120-Capsules-Ice/15937?at=0 which is hella expensive and needs to be refigerated, but i dont think it has the right probiotic strain for equol?

the one CS reccommended is out of stock (http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-DuraFlora-120-Capsules/9239?at=0) - and it doesn't need to be refigerated to im worried it might not be as effective?

Hoppipolla wrote:Ah I just got a message from the creator of Densiti again, and he is saying it is important to follow the instructions on the Densiti website and drink soy milk and eat the probiotic yoghurt, as opposed to just taking for example soy isoflavones. Apparently they achieved much better results with the combination described on the site.

Oh, and regarding the estrogenic properties of soy, you may be right there. However, sometimes something can have both good and bad effects, and it's really about deciding if you feel that one outweighs the other. For example, if I do decide to start on Densiti (I am actually considering something else a bit at present, not because I don't think equol would be effective but because I am curious about a different approach) I will have effectively made the decision that mopping up my DHT is worth the possible increase in estrogen and thyroid suppressive effects, and so may try to offset these with DIM/GSE and iodine. However, I believe fermented soy may be considerably better.

Did he elaborate as to why the soy milk worked better? Perhaps the whole soybean is needed for equol production? Wouldn't fermented soy foods such as tempeh and miso be just as effective as soy milk? I really don't like unfermented soy products like soy milk because of the unusually high phytate content and the protease inhibitors.

iluvhair wrote:which probiotics are needed to make equol? ive got my egcg, and my soy isoflavones. i also have http://www.iherb.com/New-Chapter-Organics-Probiotic-All-Flora-120-Capsules-Ice/15937?at=0 which is hella expensive and needs to be refigerated, but i dont think it has the right probiotic strain for equol?

the one CS reccommended is out of stock (http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-DuraFlora-120-Capsules/9239?at=0) - and it doesn't need to be refigerated to im worried it might not be as effective?

Psst. Buy Densiti. lol

If it's all in there why rewrite it? It's not even that expensive hehe

baller234 wrote:Did he elaborate as to why the soy milk worked better? Perhaps the whole soybean is needed for equol production? Wouldn't fermented soy foods such as tempeh and miso be just as effective as soy milk? I really don't like unfermented soy products like soy milk because of the unusually high phytate content and the protease inhibitors.

Wow you're a clever dude O.O My entire comprehension of things is "oo that is bad.." or "oo that is good!" rofl

Unfortunately the problem then comes when things have components that are bad, and components that are good. Case in point.. soy

And I beliiieeeve you can get fermented soy milk o.O I have no idea how it compares, what it's like, how it tastes.. but apparently it can be obtained...

I did say to the Densiti guy that he would probably be totally welcome on the forums, as I know that the moderation on here is much friendlier and more accepting than on other forums I've been on. I would very much like advice from him regarding those of us who wish to steer clear of non-fermented soy products, and perhaps even get a mention for this on the Densiti website for others

Yeah if the moderators are ok with it I'd like to have him on here too. In the mean time I think I'll email them in regards to fermented sources of daidzein. As for fermented soy milk, I've heard of it but have never seen it in any store. Does any one know where it's sold? Perhaps an Asian grocery?

I actually have densiti, but it's advertised towards hair loss (so i have to hide the bottle), and i don't want to rely on anything that may be discontinued in the future, i'm wary of small companies unfortunately. ive also read that it might be better to buy better quality separates

Hello all,

This is Eric Murphy, President of Bear Biotech, soon to be Black Bear Naturals. Hopefully the moderator will be kind to me, as I have been kicked off other forums for no good reason. I will try to not "promote" our product and will focus on answering questions.

I can see that this is a well-informed bunch of people, some with some strict dietary requirements. Unfortunately, with the Densiti regimen, it is quite strict, as we have not had the time or resources to investigate the effectivity of such variables of fermented vs. unfermented soy, etc.

We have settled on recommending unfermented soymilk for the regimen because, it works, it's easily obtained and it's low cost. For the general consumer, soymilk is the most easy solution for soy intake. My hunch is that fermented soy will not be as effective as soymilk, but I have no proof of this.

Densiti has been in development for 4 years. At the beginning, the regimen required taking over 10 capsules per day. We now were able to get it to work with 4 000 size capsules per day by using the highest quality, and expensive ingredients. The Densiti capsules may only have 2 ingredients, green tea extract and Bacillus coagulans, but it took a lot of effort to find the correct combination and grades of ingredients to get it to work. It is possible to get the same effect as Densiti off-the-shelf ingredients, but you will need to consume a lot more capsules per day and that will likely be even be more expensive than Densiti.

I get a lot of criticism about the regimen (primarily the soy) from people picky about what they consume. Please keep in mind that the people of Southeast Asia have a high intake of such foods as soy and green tea, and they are some of the healthiest, longest living people in the world. It is also no coincidence that they have the highest rate of equol-producers in the world.

Also, just look at the alternatives, there are not many good treatments for hair loss. I have personally used minoxidil, and it was only a short-term solution for me. Finasteride was out of the question for me. Other products usually only help in conjunction with other hair loss products, and that can be expensive!

Densiti works, and I believe that it has the potential to displace minoxidil and finasteride as the first-line treatment for hair loss. It will probably take a few years for it to prove itself as a successful product and establish credibility with the masses. For now, you can simply try it and see as an early adopter. If you are not willing to be an early adopter, then Densiti may not be for you.

Finally, I will say that we believe that Densiti is safe. I have personally be on the regimen for 4 years with no ill effects, and others have also successfully picked up the regimen with no noticeable side-effects. Just look at the ingredients of the regimen and you can see there is nothing really "bad" here. It just so happens that when these ingredients are put together correctly, the person is very likely to produce equol.

We will be releasing more information about Densiti in the future with an official product launch later this summer. In the meantime, please see densiti.com for some initial information about the product.

Thank you,
Eric Murphy