Densiti and modern equol solutions

hadrion wrote:Hey guys,

I'm curious. Haven't placed an order or anything, but what are some of the other potential positive effects for equol besides helping hair.

I know action/reaction said it's had an effect on his scalp. How so? Were you suffering from itching or redness or both? Love to hear the difference you're seeing scalp wise.

Other notable benefits of equol:

1) Reduction of itchiness - This is usually one of the first signs that the Densiti formula is starting to work, so I often ask users about it. The itchiness may be caused by A) The follicles trying to expel hair and/or B) Irritation caused by excess sebum produce from the glands

2) Reduction of sebum - Sebum is "oil" produced from glands hear the hair follicles, and often people with androgenic alopecia have a high rate of sebum production (also caused by DHT). Therefore, their hair may appear oily

3) Reduction in acne - Acne is surprisingly complex, but one of the root causes is DHT and is related to #2 with the oil/sebum being a cause of acne. I personally used to get periodic acne outbreaks on my face, back, neck and ears up until about 4 years ago. When I first started using the Densiti formula, it went away completely.

Eric

ericmurphy wrote:I don't know if you realize this, but Propecia (finasteride) is widely known to increase overall testosterone levels significantly. Do a Google search you will find a lot of information on this.

If you truly have/had increased testosterone, it was much more likely due to Propecia than the green tea/ECGC. If you disagree with me, please point me to a study that shows that ECGC increases testosterone levels. I would like to see it.

Thanks,
Eric

baller234 wrote:I had to stop using EGCG(note not even green tea extract just EGCG) because it was increasing testosterone too much (I had faster facial hair growth and temple recession continued). EGCG downregulates aromatase expression 30-50% depending on dose so it WILL increase test. I had a high intake of soy isoflavones (over 100 mg a day) AND I'm on propecia. I'm fairly certain that my DHT was low but my testosterone was really high which can be just as bad as DHT.

Yes I am aware that propecia increases testosterone. I've been on finasteride for over 2 years (in which time it has actually stopped the recession and slowed facial hair growth/reduced body hair) so the increase in facial hair growth/hair loss was not caused by propecia. It only started when I began taking large doses of EGCG. EGCG decreases aromatase activity which can increase testosterone.

action<reaction wrote:Hey Eric, maybe you could answer Hadrions questions, I'm quite interested in them as well.

As it's been clear, this regimen is clearly mimicking the best case scenario of an Asian micro-flora situation, right?

Would it be correct to assume that in the right amount, over a long enough time, one's features would correspond to say... darker hair / less body hair / etc?

Yes, the goal of the Densiti regimen is to emulate the processes that may be occurring with someone whom is a natural equol producer. However, when it comes to equol production, there are possibly dozens of "configurations" of the microflora that could produce equol. Our formula is just one of these ways, but it also seems to be very effective, simple and low cost. In general, it's hard for scientists to study what exactly is happening in the large intestine (where the equol is produced), so it's just trial and error from what I have seen other people trying to do in their studies.

Hair color and body hair are genetic attributes, so I cannot really see Densiti affecting those. However, with androgenic alopecia, as the hair miniaturizes, it also loses pigment, so it will appear lighter in color. It *might* be possible that Densiti could helps reverse some of those effects, but we cannot claim that with our product legally.

Personally, I believe that my hair is *at least* as thick and dark now as it was 4 years ago. I was only about a Norwood 2 with quite a bit of vertex thinning, so it was easy for me to bounce back some with minoxidil, but Densiti has maintained my full head of hair over the long term. Compared to what my hair was before the alopecia hit, it's at least 90% thickness, which is definitely acceptable.

Eric

baller234 wrote:
Yes I am aware that propecia increases testosterone. I've been on finasteride for over 2 years (in which time it has actually stopped the recession and slowed facial hair growth/reduced body hair) so the increase in facial hair growth/hair loss was not caused by propecia. It only started when I began taking large doses of EGCG. EGCG decreases aromatase activity which can increase testosterone.

I cannot find anything that clinically proves this. There are some articles out there that speculate on this, but, even if ECGC does inhibit aromatase activity, that does not mean that ECGC in moderation would have any ill effects.

So, how much ECGC were you consuming, and why were you coming it and in what form?

Usually when I see ECGC powders, they are basically a highly purified green tea extract. That is not what Densiti uses because we speculate that there are other factors at work in green tea extract than just ECGC which contribute to Densiti's effectiveness.

Sorry no it wasn't that I was in any way concerned for my body or that the increase in body hair actually worried me in any way (other than Fin, I am quite confident in what my body can take and don't mind some small hormonal fluctuations) but at a time where my #1 focus is collagen, I guess I want to give that approach a bit more space to succeed or fail without overwhelming things too much.

It's just a personal choice for the time being

Why are you so focused on collagen Hoppi ?

Because before my skin change I had perfect hair that's all. As soon as my skin changed, I started losing hair. It strikes me as suspicious!!

I see. I have done likewise observations. I have purchased Giga-C at Elsoms. You can read about, addresses what you want to address. Expensive, but hopefully worth it.

http://www.elsomresearch.com/shopping/products/skin-renewal.htm

I'm going to book an appointment with a dermatologist very soon. You would not believe the extent my skin changed, it sucks ._. I hate it, I don't fully know what it happened.

At the moment I am taking hydrolyzed collagen and hyaluronic acid primarily, but also ensuring I get enough vitamin C, water, omega 3, etc. Ugh man.. I need this to just work and my skin to go back to normal.. I hope the derm can help me.

I'll check out that product

What's up, fellas. Any updates?

Very interesting. Equol has a long half-life in the circulation. It could have some side effects even if used topically because a small amount will ge systemically absorbed and build-up in the system.Side effects could be the same as DUT/FIN (low DHT) and others. I recommend to use myhairway method for regenerating hair follicles _it seems like the body has astonishing recovery abilities

Nubenap wrote:Very interesting. Equol has a long half-life in the circulation. It could have some side effects even if used topically because a small amount will ge systemically absorbed and build-up in the system.Side effects could be the same as DUT/FIN (low DHT) and others. I recommend to use myhairway method for regenerating hair follicles _it seems like the body has astonishing recovery abilities

wow does it? So... are we like totally SURE it's not possible to just somehow get it into our bodies directly? Like, I know you are saying it builds up and that, but I don't believe it's harmful personally. The sides are not the same as dut and fin because it is not inhibiting 5ar. Taking equol directly would be an incredibly immediate way to tackle MPB. Even if it cannot be taken orally, it just MUST be possible O.O

And anyway I wanted to say... I am back on Densiti! Thing is I have Florajen now, and so the regimen will be way easier to stick to. I have no real reason to point fingers at green tea for increasing my body hair growth, as my body hair growth was higher than usual ever since my hair loss has increased. Hopefully refining my diet and dropping things like gluten may help to rectify some sex hormone imbalances.

But yes, back on Densiti! Armed with Florajen I think I am in a much better position to reliably follow the regimen

Peace

Hoppi!

I wanted to make a few comments about some earlier comments in this thread:

#1 Testosterone is not the enemy.

#2 Green tea is not a problem in hair loss.

#3 SHBG levels that are below normal can cause a problem with high T

#4 Green tea helps normalize SHBG levels and is a anti-histamine

#5 Topical EGCG helps grow hair

#6 EGCG improves equol production

#7 Balding increases as males lose testosterone, not the only way around.

It's amazing that people have gotten so set in their ways regarding T, believing that high T is the problem. Since my T levels dropped to a very low level I have had itchy scalp and increased shedding.

As like others im sure, this issue of losing hair led me here and I am now so focused on my health and helping my body get to 100 percent. Some fear can be a good thing sometimes!

brandnew wrote:

As like others im sure, this issue of losing hair led me here and I am now so focused on my health and helping my body get to 100 percent. Some fear can be a good thing sometimes!

I'm definitely here for the same reason you are, hahah.
My hair is probably 7% of why I love this site so much!

action<reaction wrote:

brandnew wrote:

As like others im sure, this issue of losing hair led me here and I am now so focused on my health and helping my body get to 100 percent. Some fear can be a good thing sometimes!

I'm definitely here for the same reason you are, hahah.
My hair is probably 7% of why I love this site so much!

Right on, guys. I completely agree.

This forum is like a never-ending labyrinth of hidden knowledge. It goes way beyond hair loss.

CausticSymmetry wrote:I wanted to make a few comments about some earlier comments in this thread:

#1 Testosterone is not the enemy.

#2 Green tea is not a problem in hair loss.

#3 SHBG levels that are below normal can cause a problem with high T

#4 Green tea helps normalize SHBG levels and is a anti-histamine

#5 Topical EGCG helps grow hair

#6 EGCG improves equol production

#7 Balding increases as males lose testosterone, not the only way around.

Thanks CS

I'm sorry for being so unsure about green tea - you're probably right

Is it safe for an under 20, 17 specifically to take densiti? Would it have benefits or side effects for someone so young?

Ok, how about substituting the yogurt by keffir made from grains? a cup of keffir per day? since it contains Lactobacillus acidophilus?

I noticed on a site http://www.lifeway.net/CustomerService/FAQ.aspx

They are selling fermented keffir and mentioned that it contains 7-10 billion CFUs of the bacteria, i'd guess that they are mixing something else in it and making home keffir will contain much more bacteria...

What are your thoughts? this approach is cheaper and potentially more powerful..although I wouldnt know.... It also has loads of other useful stuff which cannot be replaced by a yugurt..

Why not florajen? It's pretty cheap and of course easy to take as it's just a capsule a day for 20 billion CFUs.

Watch out for odd stares from the check out girls. The florajen that is recommended (20 billion) is supposedly for vaginal yeast and says so on the packet. I tried to explain to the girl that it wasn't for that but she didnt seem to care either way!

I've been on Densiti for a couple of weeks now and nothing to report back. The mild itch I get from time to time is still very much present.

brandnew wrote:Watch out for odd stares from the check out girls. The florajen that is recommended (20 billion) is supposedly for vaginal yeast and says so on the packet. I tried to explain to the girl that it wasn't for that but she didnt seem to care either way!

I've been on Densiti for a couple of weeks now and nothing to report back. The mild itch I get from time to time is still very much present.

The Florajen can be used as a probiotic, but yes they do also market it for vaginal use. The Florajen 3 is marketed more as a probiotic, but it also contains Bifidobacterium, so it may not be as effective with Densiti.

Just a note, there is a $2 off coupon for Florajen located here:
http://www.florajen.com/rebate.php

I also want to reiterate the importance of eating a healthy diet while on Densiti. This is the reason why:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120318757&sc=17&f=1128

If Densiti is not working for you after around 4-6 weeks, you should take a serious look at what you are eating on a daily basis. What you eat has a strong effect on the composition of your gut flora as stated in the article.

I do believe that if you go out and binge on saturated fats, it does halt equol production in as little as 24 hours. I have personally experimented with eating a bad diet for a short period of time and have seemingly noticed a quick reversal of the benefits of Densiti. More research is needed into this, but we don't have the resources to do it at this time.

Eric

lostwind wrote:Ok, how about substituting the yogurt by keffir made from grains? a cup of keffir per day? since it contains Lactobacillus acidophilus?

I noticed on a site http://www.lifeway.net/CustomerService/FAQ.aspx

They are selling fermented keffir and mentioned that it contains 7-10 billion CFUs of the bacteria, i'd guess that they are mixing something else in it and making home keffir will contain much more bacteria...

What are your thoughts? this approach is cheaper and potentially more powerful..although I wouldnt know.... It also has loads of other useful stuff which cannot be replaced by a yugurt..

The product you reference does not have a CFU count for acidophilus in particular. This product may actually have a small amount of acidophilus so it may not be effective with Densiti.

I have personally looked at keffir products at Whole Foods, and really didn't see anything I could recommend trying as a substitute for the yogurt.

Eric

tooyoung wrote:Is it safe for an under 20, 17 specifically to take densiti? Would it have benefits or side effects for someone so young?

Considering the alternatives for hair loss treatments, I believe Densiti is one of the "safest" treatments available.

It is very unfortunate that you are experiencing androgenic alopecia at age 17, but it does happen more often than people might think. I have seen posts online about young men at age 21 being a Norwood V or greater which is very unfortunate.

If you believe that you are in danger of being one of these 21 year old bald men, I do suggest that you try treating your hair loss with Densiti rather than something like finasteride/dutasteride. As your screen name suggests, you are indeed too young to be bald... you have a life ahead of you to live. I feel for you, and good luck.

Eric

Thanks for all the great posts Eric, they are very informative

Sorry for my ups and downs on Densiti - I am firmly back on it now. The main problem was of course it was just a little trickier for me as being in the UK it proved harder to get hold of either florajen or appropriate yogurts, so I felt a bit uneasy not being sure whether the probiotics I was getting were enough or not! At least now that I have Florajen, I can be pretty much sure!

I am on a good dose at the moment (complete with a pretty good diet), which I intend to stick to solidly for a month or more, and gauge to see if I have improvements!

*crosses fingers!*