Densiti and modern equol solutions

It's probably hard to tell for sure until we try one at a good dose though! I'd love to see a full trial with it on guys with hair loss.

Damn still no shedding reduction. Ugh.

My skin is improving from the collagen supplements and stuff thought I think.

To give an idea what I'm currently taking (mainly to weigh up if anything might be hindering the Densiti, and I really don't want to drop most of them)::

Hydrolyzed collagen, hyaluronic acid, vitamin c, grape seed extract, taurine, multivitamins, spirulina, iodine (iosol, only a drop or two a day), Densiti, florajen, soy

I wonder if something is wrong there.. I hope the equol/Densiti works SO much

Hoppi

Oh, and 7-HMR lignans.

I have been on Densiti... what is it now? 3 weeks perhaps? 2 and a half minimum, taking 4-6 Densiti capsules, a good amount of soy milk, and at least 1 (often 2 or even 3) Florajen capsule a day.

I wonder why it isn't working

Hoppi,

Can you describe your hair loss/symptoms for me? Where, specifically, are you losing your hair? Are you losing hair in patches, or around your entire head? How long has this been occurring and what is your family history of hair loss? I want to make sure you actually have androgenic alopecia and not something else.

You also have complained a lot about your skin, please fill me in on that. What was the problem?

As I said in an earlier post, someone else was also not having success with Densiti and it turned out they likely had another type of alopecia because he was losing hair and having thinning on his entire head (including the sides). That is not androgenic alopecia, therefore Densiti is unlikely to help him.

Thanks,
Eric

Hoppipolla wrote:Damn still no shedding reduction. Ugh.

My skin is improving from the collagen supplements and stuff thought I think.

To give an idea what I'm currently taking (mainly to weigh up if anything might be hindering the Densiti, and I really don't want to drop most of them)::

Hydrolyzed collagen, hyaluronic acid, vitamin c, grape seed extract, taurine, multivitamins, spirulina, iodine (iosol, only a drop or two a day), Densiti, florajen, soy

I wonder if something is wrong there.. I hope the equol/Densiti works SO much

Hoppi

Also, what is your age? It seems to often be the case the older the gentlemen, the longer it may take to get control of the shedding. Our longest case was 10 weeks for a man in his 60's with diffuse hair loss, but he was about a Norwood V. After he, finally, had control over his hair loss with Densiti, he was thrilled.

Thanks,
Eric

Hoppipolla wrote:Oh, and 7-HMR lignans.

I have been on Densiti... what is it now? 3 weeks perhaps? 2 and a half minimum, taking 4-6 Densiti capsules, a good amount of soy milk, and at least 1 (often 2 or even 3) Florajen capsule a day.

I wonder why it isn't working

I believe mine is... pretty likely to be normal MPB, but I will describe it as of course it's hard to be sure When I showed it to the doc, he said MPB.

Basically, after my skin changed I had more body hair growth, and immediate losing of hair as far as I can tell very much on the top of my head primarily (much less if anything at the sides). The front is also receding (at the beginnings of this).The crown.. there isn't really evidence of a focus at the top like a bald spot forming, which is the only thing that doesn't feel as much like MPB.

The reason I suspect my skin, is because I suspect that "my skin broke my hair", but the body hair increase is suspicious too. I don't think it's diet either, as my diet has changed dramatically but the problem has not eased.

Family history... some. It's not really bad, but then I may have accelerated the "aging" process somewhat with my skin change, you know?

What are your thoughts on all this?

Hoppi


EDIT -- Just saw the age post.. fascinating! I am only 25, but my skin is so poor, I'm sure it resembles that of a 40 year old or so ((( It is improving though! I hope for it to be normal again at some point fairly soon.

So... do you think there is a good chance of controlling it, given longer? Also, sometimes I eat in funny patches, and don't always eat enough (going periods during the day that are fairly long without eating). Is this ok?

Thank you this is really helping

What caused your skin "change"? When did this happen and how long did it take to occur? This sounds very unusual.

So, it sounds like you mainly have a receding hairline with some shedding. I want you to do something for me, to give us a better idea on where, exactly, you are losing hair. Next time in the shower, get a decent amount of conditioner all through your hair. Next, run your fingers through your hair in sections.

You are looking to see if there is a lot of hair coming out of certain areas of your scalp. Generally, if you are able to have hair coming out in an area and not stopping no matter how many times you rub through it, that is a good sign of alopecia.

I would recommend these sections:

1) Front left
2) Front right
3) Top-Front left
4) Top-Front right
5) Top-Back left
6) Top-Back right
7) Back of head
Left side
9) Right side

Rank them as:
1) High (Hairs keep coming out indefinitely)
2) Low (Hairs come out but stop after running fingers through approx. 10 times)
3) None

Also, it sounds like you need to give Densiti more time, especially if you believe that you have a high degree of shedding. Also, do you have any itchiness in your scalp?

Thanks,
Eric

Hoppipolla wrote:I believe mine is... pretty likely to be normal MPB, but I will describe it as of course it's hard to be sure When I showed it to the doc, he said MPB.

Basically, after my skin changed I had more body hair growth, and immediate losing of hair as far as I can tell very much on the top of my head primarily (much less if anything at the sides). The front is also receding (at the beginnings of this).The crown.. there isn't really evidence of a focus at the top like a bald spot forming, which is the only thing that doesn't feel as much like MPB.

The reason I suspect my skin, is because I suspect that "my skin broke my hair", but the body hair increase is suspicious too. I don't think it's diet either, as my diet has changed dramatically but the problem has not eased.

Family history... some. It's not really bad, but then I may have accelerated the "aging" process somewhat with my skin change, you know?

What are your thoughts on all this?

Hoppi


EDIT -- Just saw the age post.. fascinating! I am only 25, but my skin is so poor, I'm sure it resembles that of a 40 year old or so ((( It is improving though! I hope for it to be normal again at some point fairly soon.

So... do you think there is a good chance of controlling it, given longer? Also, sometimes I eat in funny patches, and don't always eat enough (going periods during the day that are fairly long without eating). Is this ok?

Thank you this is really helping

Yeah my shedding is... fairly bad. I will give it more time. Usually I shed a fair bit, but then my hair is still really pretty long, so it always looks probably much worse than it is.

I will try that next time but the hair is looking weak I am really worried about disrupting too many hairs as I don't want it to look too thin

I really want to solve hair loss internally though so I am v willing to stick with this for longer!

I do have itchiness yes, at the top only, pretty much.

Also, sorry to take this down a bit of a tangent, but have you ever considered the idea of a pure s-equol supplement? I know the chances of it working are lower, but if it DOES work, I think most people on the PLANET would switch to a one-a-day treatment that doesn't have hardly any sides (Fin has tons, let's be fair) and will stop their shedding quickly (as they won't have to wait to become producers). What do you think? Is it perhaps worth a shot/trial at some point?

Hoppi

Give it more time, but I would suggest doing the "test" that i described. It will help us determine what to expect with your specific case. Don't worry about "disrupting" the hair follicles.... any hairs that come out from the test were likely to come out anyways, probably within a few days.

If it was so easy to make an s-equol supplement, it would have been done already. In addition, it would be expensive and also may no longer qualify under FDA standards a nutritional supplement. It therefore becomes a drug and that has much stricter standards and needs to be proven to have benefit... it takes at least several years to bring a drug to market.

Also, it may be difficult to make s-equol bioavailable in supplement form. Equol is metabolized in the large intestine, and therefore absorbed from there into the bloodstream. It seems unlikely to me that a supplement could make it all the way to the large intestine intact. It would may need to be absorbed into the body in the upper GI tract, and it's not known if that is even possible.

Then there is the issue of manufacturing. Up-front costs for synthesizing s-equol would be large, and it would take the economies of scale to bring down the price. Even then, such a product would have a high price, maybe on par with finasteride.

All of this is why I had the intial goal of making a formula that would allow a person to produce their own equol. It's by far the most simple solution.

Eric

Hoppipolla wrote:Yeah my shedding is... fairly bad. I will give it more time. Usually I shed a fair bit, but then my hair is still really pretty long, so it always looks probably much worse than it is.

I will try that next time but the hair is looking weak I am really worried about disrupting too many hairs as I don't want it to look too thin

I really want to solve hair loss internally though so I am v willing to stick with this for longer!

I do have itchiness yes, at the top only, pretty much.

Also, sorry to take this down a bit of a tangent, but have you ever considered the idea of a pure s-equol supplement? I know the chances of it working are lower, but if it DOES work, I think most people on the PLANET would switch to a one-a-day treatment that doesn't have hardly any sides (Fin has tons, let's be fair) and will stop their shedding quickly (as they won't have to wait to become producers). What do you think? Is it perhaps worth a shot/trial at some point?

Hoppi

Hmm I guess so ._.

It did say somewhere though that s-equol at least produced in the way outlined by www.naturalequol.com (but probably in all ways, as I believe what they had was pure s-equol) had a "very high systemic bioavailability" when taken orally. Also, surely with the right bacteria, one could produce equol in a lab, and then split it into s and r? Sorry, it's a tangent again I know, but there is a chance of course this could be a quick, easy, indefinite and side effect free semi-cure for MPB I really wonder if enough research has been done!

And yes I will give Densiti more time I hope it's ok but I will be getting that "Sea Iodine" supplement soon, just because I know the clock is ticking so to speak and I really want to kill my shedding asap...... *crosses fingers!*

Hoppipolla wrote:... I hope it's ok but I will be getting that "Sea Iodine" supplement soon, just because I know the clock is ticking so to speak and I really want to kill my shedding asap...... *crosses fingers!*

I was on Iosol for 3-4 days, after which I experienced a shed. But as far as I remember, that is somewhat normal. Just so you are prepared.

Ah erm, what I meant was of course Sea Iodine is made of seaweed, which is supposed to encourage equol producer status ^^ Plus! I'll still get my iodine

Hoppipolla wrote:Ah erm, what I meant was of course Sea Iodine is made of seaweed, which is supposed to encourage equol producer status ^^ Plus! I'll still get my iodine

Hoppi, with the right bacterias your taking, and if it works for you, tell me what Bacteria/Supplements you are taking along with Densiti. Thanks!

Hmm, I am convinced that I am experiencing an increase in small hair shedding, improving skin and that I can feel more pronounced hair "stubble" under my long hair.

COME ON HAAAAIIIIRR! ^^

You can do it!


(still shedding though, etc, so god knows what's going on lol)

Hoppipolla wrote:Hmm, I am convinced that I am experiencing an increase in small hair shedding, ...

Is that thought of as a good sign?

For some people taking Densiti there is a period of time where the type of hair being shed is often smaller and thinner than what is normally shed. I experienced this myself when I initially started taking Densiti's formula. I consider these hairs the last of the "sickly" hairs being shed. Does this sound like what may be happening to you?

Keep in mind that our worst case scenario for stopping the shed is 10 weeks on Densiti. So, I think you are progressing normally for your situation after 3-4 weeks.

Sounds like you are finally seeing some effects, so hang in there and I think eventually your shedding will stop.

Eric

Hoppipolla wrote:Hmm, I am convinced that I am experiencing an increase in small hair shedding, improving skin and that I can feel more pronounced hair "stubble" under my long hair.

COME ON HAAAAIIIIRR! ^^

You can do it!


(still shedding though, etc, so god knows what's going on lol)

By the way,

if Densiti does work for like, most people, it is hands down the best MPB treatment on the market today

So Eric... you are / would be a legend! hehe

oh, BIG important equol question!

I wonder how alcohol effects equol producer status O.O

I ask because I'm going back to Uni in September.......

hehe!

But I will be careful if need be

Alcohol is digested/metabolized in the upper GI tract, and should not have an effect on the large intestine, except for the fact that alcohol can cause dehydration and therefore constipation. Constipation could inhibit equol production.

Personally, I am a casual alcohol drinker. I have beer in the fridge, and drink one about every few days. Binge drinking, on the other hand, would increase overall stress on the body therefore may negatively affect the effectiveness of equol.

Sorry, we haven't done any binge drinking while on Densiti experiments :-)

Eric

Hoppipolla wrote:oh, BIG important equol question!

I wonder how alcohol effects equol producer status O.O

I ask because I'm going back to Uni in September.......

hehe!

But I will be careful if need be

Hoppipolla wrote:By the way,

if Densiti does work for like, most people, it is hands down the best MPB treatment on the market today

So Eric... you are / would be a legend! hehe

That would be great, but for now I/we are just trying to help the people whom are interested in trying Densiti and learning from their feedback. Even though we think we have the formula optimized, the success of Densiti will depend on the quality of our support for our customers and customer feedback.

For most men, starting a regimen like Densiti, soy, yogurt/Florajen, healthy diet is very difficult to do. Your typical balding man has never heard of equol or DHT, nor would he be easily able to understand the fundamental mechanisms of hair loss or how equol may inhibit hair loss. He doesn't have time to research it, nor would be generally care. Getting these types of men to embrace a product like Densiti will be difficult.

If Densiti is ever going to "take off" it will likely be a grass-roots effort rather than a high-powered marketing campaign that would make it happen. In other words, we are going to need to depend on our users to help make Densiti a long-term success. This in itself may also be difficult because men are generally shy about hair loss, and don't want to talk about it. I am hoping that someday, we will have a base of fervent, vocal Densiti users which can help propel us to success.

Hair loss is nothing to be ashamed of, it has happened to *billions* of men over time. If we can get even 1% of balding men to be Densiti users, that would be a great success, in my opinion.

Eric

Yeah I guess I never think of stuff like that, sometimes it's weird to think that.. perhaps 80% of men losing hair just live with it, and a good 50% don't mind that much. I think it's a small proportion who go on normal hair loss sites/forums, and an even smaller proportion who go on the very in-depth and determined ones like this one

You have to really LOVE your hair I think!

But yeah I'm sure a very significant number of guys would try Densiti nonetheless, if they thought there was a good chance it would work. If you package the Densiti with Florajen, I think the number would go up even more!

I know 2 guys off the top of my head with noticeable loss, and one of them would, one of them probably wouldn't, so yeah 50/50

And if it works.. I will have to do something to repay you! Other than buying lots of Densiti... lol

Hoppi!

My god! hehe! ^^

Lookie what I found!


http://www.trc-canada.com/detail.php?CatNum=E593001

Hmm, I don't know what to think at the moment ._.

I'm still really sure I can feel LOADS of little hairs pushing through under my main long hair, all over my scalp. I'm also sure I have had a dandruff reduction and everything just feels healthier. But I just shed loads when I was washing my hair again That sucks. And I can still feel inflammation around the very top of my head (the crown).

Hmm ._.

I'm gonna stick with this regimen though, as I still have a good feeling about it

I used a different shampoo though, to cleanse away all the sebum, flakes and things, so that should give the hair more space to breathe.

Man I hope this works, oh and Eric I need more Densiti but the site is down! Can I get some?

Hoppi

Sorry about that, the site should be working again. We are working on a new website, so this one is EOL and just in maintenance mode. Go directly to densiti.com/checkout.html to bypass the registration screen.

About the shedding, I want to paste in a passage from minoxidil.com because I think they did a good job of explaining shedding:

Topical minoxidil can cause an initial mild increase in shedding of follicles that were going to shed within 100 days anyway. However, it's important to realize that the sustained use of topical minoxidil will result in an improvement in the number and quality of the hairs on your scalp.

Minoxidil allows hair that is already in the telogen phase to shed. Normally, the hair shaft sheds at the end of the telogen phase. 10% of normal hair is in the telogen phase, but in areas affected by MPB, up to 20% of thinning, miniaturized follicles are in the telogen phase. This is why minoxidil induced shedding may appear so dramatic when it affects thinning hair. The hair shafts, which are shed, will be replaced at the end of the telogen phase with healthier hair. On the other hand, untreated MPB will result in progressive miniaturization of the hair follicles.

I believe that for some people whom take Densiti, they also have a similar effect as they would with minoxidil, but not as extreme. Hoppi, your case seems to be on the extreme-side for Densiti, but then you are also trying a bunch of other stuff along with Densiti so that maybe causing the additional shedding.

Thanks,
Eric

Hoppipolla wrote:Hmm, I don't know what to think at the moment ._.

I'm still really sure I can feel LOADS of little hairs pushing through under my main long hair, all over my scalp. I'm also sure I have had a dandruff reduction and everything just feels healthier. But I just shed loads when I was washing my hair again That sucks. And I can still feel inflammation around the very top of my head (the crown).

Hmm ._.

I'm gonna stick with this regimen though, as I still have a good feeling about it

I used a different shampoo though, to cleanse away all the sebum, flakes and things, so that should give the hair more space to breathe.

Man I hope this works, oh and Eric I need more Densiti but the site is down! Can I get some?

Hoppi

Yeah I do hope it's ok

I'll stick with it, and be patient!

I'll probably order some more tomorrow