Why you may not improve while on probiotics...and what to do

tooyoung wrote:Hey Littlefighter,

thanks for the reply. I looked on iherb for culturelle and Sacharomyces Boulardii, at the moment they would be too expensive for me. Would it be possible to put them in a homemade yoghurt and just keep reusing them, or will the balances eventually change?

tooyoung,

You can make yougurt wih SB so y ou dont have to keep buying it! I've never tried it but looks VERY interesting.

http://www.docshare.com/doc/210866/A-New-Antidiarrheal-Probiotic-Yogurt-Drink

I think you have to make a separate batch for each type of probiotic strain, I don't think you can mix them and make yogurt in the same batch.

Taking these kind of yougurts seems more beneficial as opposed to taking capsules (at least some studies prove it), not just because of the amount of live cells, but also because of the products generated during fermentation and that you ultimately ingest.

fredounet wrote:Little Fighter,

Which one do you prefer between LGG, ST11 and Bifandis 35624?

My LGG yogourt works fine, I will try the other one.

I would love to hear some tips about eradicating bad biofilm from you...

fredounet, if I would have to choose one I would go for LGG. This is the most researched probiotic in the world, very safe, benign, of human origin... can't be compared period. You can't go wrong with this one. Add apple pectin and probably other prebiotic and you are on your way to better GI health (and thus general health).

Thx LF,

How long do you inoculate the yogourt? 24h?

Is a yogourt equivalent to one pill of probiotic (something like 1 billion)?

CS and Littlefighter,

Would you say that making your own kefir would yield better benefits than taking a probiotic supplement in terms of GI health?

1..... wrote:CS and Littlefighter,

Would you say that making your own kefir would yield better benefits than taking a probiotic supplement in terms of GI health?

Kefir by itself has its own benefits. Is it better? Mmmm not 100% sure but maybe it's better for a few reasons, like in terms of maintenance.

IMHO, if you are suffering from leaky gut or some inflammation of the GI tract, allergies, it might be wiser to start with Lactobacillus GG and/or Saccharomyces Boulardii. After you heal and feel better, you might want to try Kefir for maintenance if you want (or just stay with the probiotics).

However, don't get me wrong, I think Kefir is good... I just think is not for everyone specially if ill. So just try it out and experiment if you want: if you feel good and improves your digestion, then keep taking it; use the probiotics otherwise.

If you don't tolerate kefir now you might in the future, after restoring your gut flora and removing pathogens and biofilms and whatever causes intolerance.

fredounet wrote:Thx LF,

How long do you inoculate the yogourt? 24h?

Is a yogourt equivalent to one pill of probiotic (something like 1 billion)?

I think the yogurt provides more live cells than a probiotic cap, generally that's true. Besides the yogurt might provide healing factors, nutrients, things to help the bacteria survive and implant, etc. I remember a paper that gave a calculation of how many cells yogurt gave... I will try to find it. The point is, yogurt, like kefir will provide much more bacteria than 1 billion or those quantities usually seen in typical probiotic products (VSL#3 probiotic being a possible exception providing hundreds of billions of cells per serving).

Littlefighter - What do you mean about kefir not being tolerable if ill? How would you know if you react badly to kefir? I've had a couple of gulps every day for a few days and I've got quite ill, a lot of people I know are ill, but mine seems different, I'm getting 3 or so hour of sleep a night, which none of them have that problem.

tooyoung wrote:Littlefighter - What do you mean about kefir not being tolerable if ill? How would you know if you react badly to kefir? I've had a couple of gulps every day for a few days and I've got quite ill, a lot of people I know are ill, but mine seems different, I'm getting 3 or so hour of sleep a night, which none of them have that problem.

, I

tooyoung, just listen to your body.

With reacting bad, I mean, are you feeling more tired, getting rashes/acne, constipation or diarrhea, lots of gas, etc.? All of those are indicators that you are reacting to Kefir. Initially that might be detox symptoms, but if they don't go away you are making things worse.

The point is, did your sympoms got worse since adding kefir?

Just switch to LGG and/or S Boulardii. Kefir is not for you at least at this point. The reason is that Kefir could be more agressive and having inflammation and leaky gut would make you react to the yeast and bacteria in it, yes EVEN if they call them "friendly". Probiotics, at least some, might be problematic when you have leaky gut and inflammation; Im not making this up, this comes from research, real experts and my own experience.

Tooyoung, you should embark yourself into a protocol for healing your gut... it does takes some time but man it's worth it. Also, I don't think it is too complicated, is a matter of getting nutrients, antrimicrobioals and the right probiotics; also you have to really improve your diet: Say bye to gluten and other more obvious stuff (this doesn't have to be difficult either!)

I will post my idea of a gut healng protocol

Thanks for that LittleFighter. If I just use kefir topically, I shouldn't get any side effects from that? Like how some people experience sides from topical ketoconazole.

I'm not sure if the kefir has made anything worse. I won't have any kefir until i've recovered from this cold and try again.

I've definetly cleaned up my diet, but it's still not perfect. You said it doesn't have to be hard but i've really struggled with finding lots of different foods that keep me full, although I've noticed a massive reduction in scalp inflammation.

For anyone that's interested. I was just searching around for the Nestle Nido 1+ that LittleFighter has been saying good stuff about, found a free offer that I presume you guys can just make the yoghurt forever from. Unfortunately is US only, which means I can't get it. Hopefully someone will find use out of it though.

http://www.nestlenido.com/Public/nidosample.aspx

tooyoung - Your reaction to the kefir is almost certainly a die off reaction in your gut. A lot of people upon taking kefir will feel nauseous and suffer constipation, but from my experience just drink one mouthful if the die off symptoms are bad then build up slowly till you're drinking a glass or two a day, its powerful stuff.

It can take up to 3 months to get use kefir(as was my case), little fighters advice is top notch, but IMO i wouldn't give up the kefir(just reduce dosage to a bare minimum) as it will only be doing you the world of good.

LittleFighter wrote:

tooyoung wrote:Littlefighter - What do you mean about kefir not being tolerable if ill? How would you know if you react badly to kefir? I've had a couple of gulps every day for a few days and I've got quite ill, a lot of people I know are ill, but mine seems different, I'm getting 3 or so hour of sleep a night, which none of them have that problem.

, I

tooyoung, just listen to your body.

With reacting bad, I mean, are you feeling more tired, getting rashes/acne, constipation or diarrhea, lots of gas, etc.? All of those are indicators that you are reacting to Kefir. Initially that might be detox symptoms, but if they don't go away you are making things worse.

The point is, did your sympoms got worse since adding kefir?

Just switch to LGG and/or S Boulardii. Kefir is not for you at least at this point. The reason is that Kefir could be more agressive and having inflammation and leaky gut would make you react to the yeast and bacteria in it, yes EVEN if they call them "friendly". Probiotics, at least some, might be problematic when you have leaky gut and inflammation; Im not making this up, this comes from research, real experts and my own experience.

Tooyoung, you should embark yourself into a protocol for healing your gut... it does takes some time but man it's worth it. Also, I don't think it is too complicated, is a matter of getting nutrients, antrimicrobioals and the right probiotics; also you have to really improve your diet: Say bye to gluten and other more obvious stuff (this doesn't have to be difficult either!)

I will post my idea of a gut healng protocol

Hey Little Fighter, did you ever post your gut healing protocol?

by tooyoung on Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:04 pm
For anyone that's interested. I was just searching around for the Nestle Nido 1+ that LittleFighter has been saying good stuff about, found a free offer that I presume you guys can just make the yoghurt forever from. Unfortunately is US only, which means I can't get it. Hopefully someone will find use out of it though.

http://www.nestlenido.com/Public/nidosample.aspx

tooyoung - thanks for the link. Funny, I looked for the product in Cali but never found it. Maybe Nestle's is introducing the product in the U.S.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a probiotic supplement to start with. Sorry if this has been posted. Thanks

Pretty sure I can't get any Nido in the UK. Anyone feel like sending me a few tbps to get me started on the yoghurt making?

br - I can suggest a few, but know that everyone reacts a little differently to probiotics, so experimentation can help.

There's generally two schools of thought on probiotics. Either incorporate plenty of fermented foods, such as homemade kefir and yogurt (emphasis added on homemade) or a quality probiotic.

The following are decent probiotics:

http://www.iherb.com/Culturelle-Culturelle-Probiotic-30-Veggie-Caps/7797?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Dr-Ohhira-s-Essential-Formulas-Inc-Probiotics-12-PLUS-Original-Formula-60-Capsules/3620?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Jarrow-Dophilus-EPS-60-Veggie-Caps/124?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Sedona-Labs-iFlora-Multi-Probiotic-New-Formula-60-Veggie-Caps/7406?at=0

I'm sure I left out plenty of other good ones mentioned on this board.

How about Primal Defense -

http://www.iherb.com/Garden-of-Life-Primal-Defense-Ultra-Ultimate-Probiotic-Formula-180-UltraZorbe-Veggie-Caps/7782?at=0

Can i ask a stupid question?

If the probiotics we buy (such as Jarrows which I have) really are active, then we should be able to start yoghurt by just busting a couple of caps open and using them as a starter for yoghurt. Or are they completely wrong type strains of bacteria?

lambyjay - As far as I'm aware, that is fine. However, if there is various strains within the caps, some will become more dominant and take over the others, making it different ratios to what the caps should be.

However, using single strains, such as the ones spoken about earlier in the thread (culturelle, yakult, nestle nido) there is no problems with overpowering, as there is only one. So you can get an unlimited supply.

I have followed the instructions multiple times and even bought a yoghurt maker. Using yakult my yogurt won't set. Even after leaving it 24 hours. I've read yakult doesn't properly set, but it's just like milk, is this still good, what am I doing wrong?

I've had the same problem with Dr. Ochiros, Culrurelle and that one with the same strand as Nido. However, cCulturelle worked for me once before. I think it has to do with the environment. I could use some guidance too...

Reading up a bit apparently commercial yogurts use thickeners so home made are likely to be a bit more runny.

Also if where you are incubating the yogurt is too cold, this may stop it from setting. I'll try put mine in a warmer place and report back.

LittleFighter wrote:Inneov is about to release (I think in September, at least in Europe) a treatment for dandruff in the form of a probiotic (ingestedl probiotic, not a topical!). It's amazing the indirect effects probiotics can have.

These Lactobacillus Paracasei ST11 capsules have been out a while now, probably going to order some as dandruff is a persistent problem of mine. Anyone tried them?

http://www.promofarmacia.com/inneov-salud-capilar-capsulas-p-8141.html

In English but without detailed description:

http://www.leguidesante.co.uk/25B8/purchase/inneov-hair-health-anti-dandruff-treatment-capsules/

Also LittleFighter, when I was trying to find how well probiotics work with colostrum (which I plan to take at some point) I read an article which basically says probiotics will have minimal effectiveness unless your intestinal mucosal lining is in good shape. Most people have taken antibiotics or had other damaging experiences, also those who were not breast-fed are at a disadvantage. This means the good stuff won't stick and will soon leave the system so improvements are only temporary. A course of colostrum can apparently help heal this so it sounds to me as though one should be undertaken early in the program before (or alongside) probiotics, kefir etc. What do you think?

Article

bump! is little fighter ever going to write that guide?

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/04/new-genetics-part-v-is-intestinal.html

--- The New Genetics -- Part V: Is the Intestinal Microbiome Part of Our Genome?