Why you may not improve while on probiotics...and what to do

What do you think about doing an enema with the specific strains??

I mean can it be dangerous?

Is There a Gut-Brain Axis?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0625.2009.01060.x/full

Oral Pro biotic Reduces Severe Dandruff in Small Study
http://skin.gcnpublishing.com/fileadmin/content_pdf/archive_pdf/vol40iss11/70545_main.pdf

In these two studies Lactobacillus and the Lactobacillus paracascei as a probiotic seemed to reduce inflammation in both skin and scalp.

Thanks, great thread.

What do we do if we can't take dairy though ?

tonyj wrote:Is There a Gut-Brain Axis?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0625.2009.01060.x/full

Oral Pro biotic Reduces Severe Dandruff in Small Study
http://skin.gcnpublishing.com/fileadmin/content_pdf/archive_pdf/vol40iss11/70545_main.pdf

In these two studies Lactobacillus and the Lactobacillus paracascei as a probiotic seemed to reduce inflammation in both skin and scalp.

Tony, that is just amazing. I knew about that study already. Inneov is about to release (I think in September, at least in Europe) a treatment for dandruff in the form of a probiotic (ingestedl probiotic, not a topical!). It's amazing the indirect effects probiotics can have.

Dandruff & inflammation are major players in hairloss.

The strain in question is Lactobacillus Paracasei ST11 (also Lactobacillus paracasei NCC2461). Also known commercially as Lactobacillus Protectus, Lactobacillus Fortis (in different countries), in Nestle products like milk for children (Nido). This strain, if I recall well, was isolated from a healthy child. It is found in fermented products too.

I think I can get that specific strain in a product from Nestle in Mexico and start making yogurt with it, take it in greater amounts and for a fraction of the cost. Inneov products are expensive, I'm always looking of ways to have a permanent supply of some stuff, in the case of probiotics the yogurt strategy works!

This is huge, at least to me! Everyone with skin/scalp problems should be giving this a try...

More info to come, as I start experimenting reproducing this little guy in milk...

FireFist wrote:LittleFigther

How do i know if the probiotics i take are good or bad?
Its quite overwhelming what you say, that even excess good bacetria can mean trouble

Im waiting for CS response on this

It is very simple, don't over think it.

How do you feel while on that probiotic? Are your bowel movements ok? smell bad? do you have acne? etc etc

That way you can know if the probiotic is doing good or bad to you!

If you are getting better bowel movements, less acne, better digestion, etc etc then keep taking it!

If you get bad reactions is most likely due to die off and an extreme release of toxins... sometimes this is very hard to deal with like in my personal case.

Sometimes it takes time to adjust when using a probiotic formula, if you don't get better, try a different one and go slow. My recommendation is to try Lactobacillys

You don't have to be agressive, you only have to be constant.

Some probiotics give me heavy eyes, tiredness, acne, bloating, inflamed lymph nodes, etc. But that's just my personal case... due to the bad shape my intestines were in.

I will describe what I'm doing and how I'm feeling in another thread.

A fail-safe, effective single strain probiotic is Culturelle (Lactobacillus GG), I can safely recommend based on my personal experience and research.

If you don't tolerate dairy, just take dairy free probiotic capsules... throw in a good prebiotic for greater effect (apple pectin, larch arabinogalactan, etc).

Eventually you should be able to tolerate dairy when your digestion is restored, in many cases...

Allergy and intolerance have everything to do with your bowel's flora.

LittleFighter,

did you ever write that article nidhogge suggested in the first page of this thread?

Do you make the yoghurt like:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/yoghurt/yog_pict_guide.htm

and can you put a probiotic bought off iherb in, instead of the yoghurt starter on that guide?

LittleFighter wrote:Allergy and intolerance have everything to do with your bowel's flora.

Lots of people have dairy intolerance, but one quirk of mine is a slight intolerance to most fish. Not only if I eat, but if I touch a fresh fish to my arm the skin will develop a bit of a rash. It's really annoying because it's a food I'd love to eat a lot more of. I just wonder...as I begin to fix my gut health...is this something that might be fixable? Would be amazing if it was (and people who know me would be amazed too I think). I always assumed such things were genetically determined and would be lifelong, but we have people here challenging those views and I tend to agree with them. I guess I'll see in a few months or so.

Dandruff & inflammation are major players in hairloss.

The strain in question is Lactobacillus Paracasei ST11 (also Lactobacillus paracasei NCC2461). Also known commercially as Lactobacillus Protectus, Lactobacillus Fortis (in different countries), in Nestle products like milk for children (Nido). This strain, if I recall well, was isolated from a healthy child. It is found in fermented products too.

I think I can get that specific strain in a product from Nestle in Mexico and start making yogurt with it, take it in greater amounts and for a fraction of the cost. Inneov products are expensive, I'm always looking of ways to have a permanent supply of some stuff, in the case of probiotics the yogurt strategy works!

This is huge, at least to me! Everyone with skin/scalp problems should be giving this a try...

More info to come, as I start experimenting reproducing this little guy in milk...

LitttleFighter, please keep us up-to-date on your experiment. I've been trying to find this strain of Lactobacillus but have no luck in locating a supplier. Do you know in which of Nestle's products the L.P. is in and or how long they have been using this strain in their products? Is it possible that Nestles have been inadvertently solving the dandruff problem for many people through their dairy products?

Maybe I could start up on their French Vanilla coffee cream again. (Just thinking out load)

tonyj wrote:

Dandruff & inflammation are major players in hairloss.

The strain in question is Lactobacillus Paracasei ST11 (also Lactobacillus paracasei NCC2461). Also known commercially as Lactobacillus Protectus, Lactobacillus Fortis (in different countries), in Nestle products like milk for children (Nido). This strain, if I recall well, was isolated from a healthy child. It is found in fermented products too.

I think I can get that specific strain in a product from Nestle in Mexico and start making yogurt with it, take it in greater amounts and for a fraction of the cost. Inneov products are expensive, I'm always looking of ways to have a permanent supply of some stuff, in the case of probiotics the yogurt strategy works!

This is huge, at least to me! Everyone with skin/scalp problems should be giving this a try...

More info to come, as I start experimenting reproducing this little guy in milk...

LitttleFighter, please keep us up-to-date on your experiment. I've been trying to find this strain of Lactobacillus but have no luck in locating a supplier. Do you know in which of Nestle's products the L.P. is in and or how long they have been using this strain in their products? Is it possible that Nestles have been inadvertently solving the dandruff problem for many people through their dairy products?

Maybe I could start up on their French Vanilla coffee cream again. (Just thinking out load)

I found it! found L. Paracasei ST11! (Lactobacillus Protectus or Lactobacillus Fortis, commercial names given by Nestle)



Don't worry, I'll send it to you if necessary! This is a powdered milk for children, with vitamins, minerals, prebiotics and of course this specific probiotic strain (the ingredients list says L. Paracasei, after researching, I found this is L. Paracasei ST11, the right strain).

Will try to make yogurt from this stuff!

Some research:

High-fat diet-induced obesity is attenuated by probiotic strain Lactobacillus paracasei ST11 (NCC2461) in rats

Patent:

Patent application title: Use of probiotic lactic acid bacteria for balancing the skin's immune system

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100080782#ixzz0yKk4khsp

Inneov Product announcement:

http://www.farmacialanucia.es/newsdesk_info.php?currency=GBP&newsdesk_id=237&language=en

They don"t talk about diet, they surly had crappy diets during the study. That must be a good sticky strain to be effective by itself.

Hey Littlefighter, would the sugars in the Nido Kinder +1 be eaten by the yogurt starter's bacteria culture? There is about 12g of sugar per serving in Nido.

tonyj wrote:Hey Littlefighter, would the sugars in the Nido Kinder +1 be eaten by the yogurt starter's bacteria culture? There is about 12g of sugar per serving in Nido.

tonyj, I believe the probiotic will degrade all (or at least some) types of sugars and carb's and create other products from them (lactic acid, bacteriocins, enzymes and many other goodies).

But actually you don't have to worry at all because if make yogurt with a few teaspoons or so of Nido, for the next batches you don't need to use more of the powder but instead just a small amount of yogurt from the previous batch.

So this way, eventually you'll have batches of yogurt FREE of additives, sugar, and pretty much anything that was in the original starter (Nido).

Actually I believe it is more effective to make yogurt with some amount of the previous batch than using starter, for various reasons. I've experimented with this.

So probably today I will have time and start the process and see how it goes!

The experiment was a success!

I managed to ferment milk using Nido with that special strain, L. paracasei ST11. Smells and looks good! I will taste it today.

Will let you know my progress...

Excellent!

Do you think the L.P. would be preserved in the next series of yogurt?

tonyj wrote:Excellent!

Do you think the L.P. would be preserved in the next series of yogurt?

Yes, it will, like in any culture. So you can use some of it for the next batches.

Here's a pic of my first batch:



There's some yellowish whey on top, and the resulting yogurt is firm and nice.

The pic of the yogurt doesn't look the most glamorous, but it's not going to prevent me from making my own.

How much Nido did you use?

I used about 1-2 tablespoons of the powder and mixed it well. For the first batch, just try to make a small amount of yogurt like shown in the pic. When using yogurt from previous batches, the fermenting time will b e reduced because bacteria are in higher numbers and the medium is already loaded with nutrients and things like enzymes and bacteriocins that improve the chances of dominating the fresh milk. I always boil the milk before making yogurt. I have to post detailed info on what I've learned in the process to help you all.

I just ate the stuff, the flavor was mild. I added some Xylitol and fruit to make it tasty.

The proof:



It's gone now!

Little Fighter, do you make the yoghurt like the guide does here:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/yoghurt/yog_pict_guide.htm

and can you put a probiotic bought off iherb in, instead of the yoghurt starter on that guide?

tooyoung wrote:Little Fighter, do you make the yoghurt like the guide does here:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/yoghurt/yog_pict_guide.htm

and can you put a probiotic bought off iherb in, instead of the yoghurt starter on that guide?

tooyoung, yes, I follow the same process.

The only difference is that I usually make smaller amounts. If you are making yogurt in amounts like shown in the pictures, then be sure to use enough starter, a few capsules of probiotics, maybe 5 to 10+. If using yogurt as a starter, use a few tablespoons.

Thanks for the reply Littlefighter.

Healthy Origins have an offer of 7 vcaps of 30 billion probiotics for $2.99. Could I just get the trial, dump all 7 in some yoghurt and have a theoretical unlimited supply of that probiotics?

tooyoung wrote:Thanks for the reply Littlefighter.

Healthy Origins have an offer of 7 vcaps of 30 billion probiotics for $2.99. Could I just get the trial, dump all 7 in some yoghurt and have a theoretical unlimited supply of that probiotics?

The bad thing about using multi-strain formulas like that one, is that after a few batches some bacteria will disappear due to natural competition; you will end up making yogurt with one or two strains only. The other thing I see is that there is nothing special about that probiotic formula, yes it is cheap and lots of bacteria (*maybe*). I don't see any special well researched strains, of human origin or anything else. Do they even survive digestion like human strains like LGG or L.P. 299v?

If you just want to make yogurt you may use any probiotic, including that one. If you are expecting therapeutic benefits, then my advice is to make yorgurt from single, human super strains like Lactobacillus GG, L. Reuteri, L., L. PLantarum 299V, etc, which are of human origin and do colonize the gut.

Right now I started experimenting with L. Paracasei ST11, to improve the skin's immune function and eliminate dandruff... now that's awesome.

Right now I started experimenting with L. Paracasei ST11, to improve the skin's immune function and eliminate dandruff... now that's awesome.

I would love to get more information on this. I have dandruff and dry hair. Oily hardened pimples that erupt on the scalp.

I'm on the top 6 plus Lugols 5% iodine/ selenium, and recently started ACV (to deacidify so I could restore my hair) I'm also on both Humifulvate and MCP