Re: Detumescence Therapy- dedicated volunteers wanted

SonofOdin Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:04 pm

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:
SonofOdin wrote:How can I do DT and still use Spiro as a topical without it going systematic? I'm not willing to drop my most powerful topical because I'm not yet sold on this therapies effectiveness but would like to give it a shot anyway if possible.

This is the kind of therapy you really have to commit to, dude.

Alright thanks for the honesty, will probably skip the therapy for now and just wait for more results to roll in on the DT while I finish up my s5 cream.

hairyshowers Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:07 pm

2young2retire wrote:hi guys. i am new here.
i started hardcore massages till my scal skin is purple like when you get punched. redness stays for like 48h and hair is boosted post session like when wounding.

i will stay on it forever whether the study is real or fake we already know that various wounding methods all benefit our hairs.

Hey 2young, great to see you here. Getting sick of fredthetwat yet? :-)
Theres been a few members here lately asking about DR/wounding, 2young is definately the man to ask here.
Anyway welcome to the forum and hope you get on well with DT.
Peace

Dannyboy Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:15 pm

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:
SonofOdin wrote:How can I do DT and still use Spiro as a topical without it going systematic? I'm not willing to drop my most powerful topical because I'm not yet sold on this therapies effectiveness but would like to give it a shot anyway if possible.

This is the kind of therapy you really have to commit to, dude.

So you saying it is not reccomded to use any topical with DT therapy? how about using laser helmet that I have - shell I drop it too?

deleteme Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:00 am

My message didn't send!!!! Hi T mine looks similar to the one in the first link but had a pointed end on one side. If you can imagine chopping up a tomato in thin layers that's how I approach the pressing aspect of the massage. I place the tool on its side and work from back to front. I grind my skin into the bone and move along in small sections I then use both tools together. Using the pointed ends pinch my scalp in small sections. I'm able to pinch very small sections because my skin has gone very thin. Think of a chop stick focusing on picking up a pea. Very very very hard press in small area along with very very very hard pinching. It's not hard physically to do because the tools focus the pressure in a more positive way unlike when using your hands your fingers are cushioned soft and the pressure is spread over a larger area. So you don't need to worry about your wrists or hand hurting. The scalp is the only thing that should be experiencing pain. Hope this helps. NT wrote:
massager wrote:My skin has just literally burst with grease against the mirror from DT. I used a tool I usually do but pressed even harder. I noticed my skin going dry and flaky as i did It. The skin then got moist after. It was like a blister in appearance. I continued to press and my pores were literally dripping. II'm not talking about anything minor. My forehead was wet from it. I think some people may be going to easy on the actual method after experiencing this. I think I've done more in that one 10 minute work on that area than I have the whole time....why?..... because I've just instantly shrank the lump on my hairline. It's gone and I'm not surprised. If anyone saw what just happened to me they would understand. I can only compare it to squeezing a lemon. I urge everyone to use some thing that can focus the pressure on a small area. The swelling is definitely grease. I dont know what kind but after my experience I feel very enlightened and i wish to share it with you and hope you take things up a notch if you haven't already. I do believe using tools are best. You canuse two and once. I use two now that could be compared to a ruler but made of stone I use them both together to pinch and squeeze small areas at a time. Takes longer but more effective although having said that I just did the method for 10 minutesand have just made the biggest Impact than all my other sessions put together for sure. If that grease stays there nothing will regrow

Hey massager,

Something like this ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Gua-Sha-Massage-Black-Bian-Stone-Natural-Health-Cure-Tool-01-/281134877958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4174f1cd06

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gua-Sha-Massage-Tool-Resin-Acupuncture-Fish-Scrape-Therapy-Guasha-New-/111416020527?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19f0e98e2f

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Bian-Stone-Massager-Traditional-Tool-/261473841311?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce10e309f

RAptor Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:01 am

2young2retire wrote:hi guys. i am new here.
i started hardcore massages till my scal skin is purple like when you get punched. redness stays for like 48h and hair is boosted post session like when wounding.

how do you manage that?

hiilikeyourbeard Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:47 am

Dannyboy wrote:
hiilikeyourbeard wrote:
SonofOdin wrote:How can I do DT and still use Spiro as a topical without it going systematic? I'm not willing to drop my most powerful topical because I'm not yet sold on this therapies effectiveness but would like to give it a shot anyway if possible.

This is the kind of therapy you really have to commit to, dude.

So you saying it is not reccomded to use any topical with DT therapy? how about using laser helmet that I have - shell I drop it too?

I honestly don't see adding things will hurt. Maybe someone else can chime in here too who's doing this. But from time to time I put castor oil on or magnesium oil topically. I've added a few supps too... So for me, doing other things hasn't hurt.

2young2retire Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:35 am

what you mean? i just lye downhead at the bed and i wait till head pressure increases then i make circular movements to head skin till i fold it then i hold it rough. it pains a bit. but it works

RAptor wrote:
2young2retire wrote:hi guys. i am new here.
i started hardcore massages till my scal skin is purple like when you get punched. redness stays for like 48h and hair is boosted post session like when wounding.

how do you manage that?

Dannyboy Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:01 pm

I asked that question before, hopefully I will get some responds:
I do want to get into this method full power. I use several months a laser helmet and lately a scalp tension relaxer for 1-2 hours per day and a natural topical twice a day. Will it be Ok, to combine the DT among the others or it might be too much? as the author of: "Perfect Hair Health eBook" suggested to me. I just find it hard to understand why...
Any thoughts or someone who uses both laser and DT? Thanks

BelieveInIt Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:56 pm

Dannyboy wrote:I asked that question before, hopefully I will get some responds:
I do want to get into this method full power. I use several months a laser helmet and lately a scalp tension relaxer for 1-2 hours per day and a natural topical twice a day. Will it be Ok, to combine the DT among the others or it might be too much? as the author of: "Perfect Hair Health eBook" suggested to me. I just find it hard to understand why...
Any thoughts or someone who uses both laser and DT? Thanks

scalp tension relaxer: not necessary in my opinion if detumescence is done right, might even squeeze off blood flow at the sides where it is attached to your head. plus it is another thing you might get used to think you depend on. do you really want to wear this thing (or believe you have to wear it) 1-2 hours/day for the rest of your life?

laser helmet: might be beneficial, but don't think it is necessary. again one more thing you'll think you depend on after a while.

topical: same as above.

so i suggest you do your 2x20 minutes routine which is enough quality time to spend with your hair and use the rest for something really useful like having fun, doing sports, socializing or doing whatever makes you feel alive.

Slimnuts Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:40 am

I'm a little concerned that Drex didn't get the results he had expected by now and won't be back to post his pics. I'd really like to see where he's at though.

Xenon Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:47 am

Slimnuts wrote:I'm a little concerned that Drex didn't get the results he had expected by now and won't be back to post his pics. I'd really like to see where he's at though.

Why wont he be back?

SonofOdin Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:39 am

If the key to stopping mpb, and attaining regrowth is increasing blood flow and breaking down calcification, why do transplanted hairs not fall out, even when placed in these areas that are supposedly too tight?

bov51 Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:21 am

transplant hair does fall off eventually

Keanoseg Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:30 am

SonofOdin wrote:If the key to stopping mpb, and attaining regrowth is increasing blood flow and breaking down calcification, why do transplanted hairs not fall out, even when placed in these areas that are supposedly too tight?

The transplantation itself is a process of decalfification and increasing blood flow tremendously cuz of incisions and what not, relieving a lot of scalp pressure.
Also after transplant you get propecia or rogaine or both so that it makes sure the hair stays there. I'm pretty sure that, if you get a hair transplant, let the scalp get tight again, eat bad food and not do any DT or whatever to keep scalp healthy,thin and loose without fibrosis,calcification and whatnot, your hair is gonna fall off after some time. Not in first xy cycles but after that you pretty much start balding again.

gg4545 Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:59 am

Slimnuts I think he will post final results but I also think he may be stalling for more time. Hey we've all come to the conclusion that this thing takes more than 10 months.

Slimnuts Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:09 am

gg4545 wrote:Slimnuts I think he will post final results but I also think he may be stalling for more time. Hey we've all come to the conclusion that this thing takes more than 10 months.

Yeah I think so too. To be fair I've never in my life seen a picture of anyone who has full recovered from any sort of advanced male pattern baldness. I'd still like to see where hes at so far though. even maintaining or minor regrowth is obviously way better than continuing to lose hair.

Keanoseg Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:04 am

Here's something from this study.

Acta Derm Venereol. 1990;70(4):342-3.

Reversal of andro-genetic alopecia in a male. A spironolactone effect?

Bou-Abboud CF, Nemec F, Toffel F.

Source

Department of Internal Medicine, University Medical Center of Southern Nevada, University of Nevada School of Medicine.

Abstract

This 73-year-old white male has been bald since the age of 28. He developed nonA-nonB-induced liver cirrhosis and had been treated with spironolactone for the last 6 years. For the last 3 months, his hair had started to regrow over the scalp. This might be related to the antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone.

Comment

"...The fact is that hair follicles technically never “die”, they miniaturize to the point that they are no longer visible, over time resulting in a slick bald appearance. Once a hair follicle miniaturizes to this point it does become extremely resistant to treatment and re-generation. Researchers at L’Oreal and other academic institutions identified the culprit behind this resistance to regeneration as a progressive and long standing fibrosis (chronic inflammation induced collagen hardening) that occurs in Androgenetic Alopecia. Perifollicular Fibrosis and the resultant miniaturization occur in response to inflammation and DHT, making it almost impossible to regrow hair in completely bald areas in the short term. However as fibrosis is gradually reversed, regrowth of hair is possible, as this study shows, in the long term.

Fibrosis can be reversed a number of ways. The crudest, and most feminizing, side effect prone is the usage of oral anti-androgens like Propecia, Avodart, or the stronger and even more feminizing Spironolactone,Casodex, Diane 35,and Flutamide. Fibrosis can also be gradually neutralized by countering peri-follicular inflammation with oral Resveratrol/Curcumin (fibrosis occurs in response to long standing inflammation), and the topical application of low temperature processed Emu Oil. The most direct,(and by far most cost effective) way to resolve existing fibrosis is by using oral Taurine in a dose of 250 mg or more. Taurine is the cornerstone of L’Oreal’s European oral hair loss treatments, “Hair Mass” and “Hair Mass for Men,” which combine Taurine with Green Tea Extract, Grape Seed Extract, and Beta sitosterol,(for men)..."

Keanoseg Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:14 am

Also wanna post this here for anyone being afraid or skeptical.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/76578-Fibrosis-Inflammation-amp-Androgen-Alopecia

Read through all of the first post at least

Slimnuts Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:37 am

Keanoseg wrote:Also wanna post this here for anyone being afraid or skeptical.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/76578-Fibrosis-Inflammation-amp-Androgen-Alopecia

Read through all of the first post at least

Reading that makes it hard not to be negative. I mean it looks like there is so much shit going wrong with our bodies that it seems impossible to pinpoint what the problem is and really figure out how to treat it.

Keanoseg Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:39 am

Slimnuts wrote:
Keanoseg wrote:Also wanna post this here for anyone being afraid or skeptical.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/76578-Fibrosis-Inflammation-amp-Androgen-Alopecia

Read through all of the first post at least

Reading that makes it hard not to be negative. I mean it looks like there is so much shit going wrong with our bodies that it seems impossible to pinpoint what the problem is and really figure out how to treat it.

There is some shit going on and quite frankly it's stupidly fascinating. It's almost as stupid as nature manifesting things with hair loss to a male in the beginning of his 20s or even late teens in a world where everything is based on first impression. I mean seriously, what the fuck nature, how the fuck does that provide optimal gene crossovers in the fucking pool? You see all these animals,mamals, that don't eat most optimal food for them like people feeding dogs and cats with random shit but you don't see those animals going bald ever xD it's like pinned to humans mainly so that you suffer while you're still young because you're aware of your own existence. Silly shit.

Anyway, on a serious note, I posted that here because people obviously need encouragement and fibrosis is known as one of those things that we are trying to tackle with DT here so just pinned it here for some material for anyone who still believes DT can't do anything. Solving it mechanically from the outside is absolutely possible and it is probable with time. To people bashing the timing needed for DT results. Do it properly and after few weeks when your hair thickens like never before and after a couple of months when you're hair loss stops u'll see. Also tell me one topical or supplement or anything that is totally safe and natural and provides regrowth in less than half a year or a year. That's right, you can't. This works.

Keanoseg Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:46 am

Slimnuts wrote:Reading that makes it hard not to be negative. I mean it looks like there is so much shit going wrong with our bodies that it seems impossible to pinpoint what the problem is and really figure out how to treat it.

That is the main point of DT. Whatever the problem is it always manifests the same way. Whether you are deficient in X or Y or Z or have a shitty thyroid or you are shampooing your hair with radioactive chupacabras the scalp always gets inflammed. And there are gazillion evidences that "mpb" is most likely triggered by micro inflamation in the scalp or a systemic one. Calcification and fibrosis are linked to inflammation and so is increased DHT in the scalp and so is reduced blood flow.

SonofOdin Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:49 pm

Well, another big shed, seems spiro is not protecting my follicles at all :/ Count me in on this, I will be doing my best to follow what is outlined in the perfecthairhealth book to a T, and what that basically is, is DT but, mostly done only in the areas I want to regrow hair. In my case the temples, my vertex has miraculously stayed mostly intact despite my swiftly approaching NW4.

Brabus Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:16 pm

This is the only thing that is working for me in 3 years but in the meantime I lost a lot of mini hair in 2 days. So my hair is worse now.

Slimnuts Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:12 am

Keanoseg wrote:
Slimnuts wrote:
Keanoseg wrote:Also wanna post this here for anyone being afraid or skeptical.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/76578-Fibrosis-Inflammation-amp-Androgen-Alopecia

Read through all of the first post at least

Reading that makes it hard not to be negative. I mean it looks like there is so much shit going wrong with our bodies that it seems impossible to pinpoint what the problem is and really figure out how to treat it.

There is some shit going on and quite frankly it's stupidly fascinating. It's almost as stupid as nature manifesting things with hair loss to a male in the beginning of his 20s or even late teens in a world where everything is based on first impression. I mean seriously, what the fuck nature, how the fuck does that provide optimal gene crossovers in the fucking pool? You see all these animals,mamals, that don't eat most optimal food for them like people feeding dogs and cats with random shit but you don't see those animals going bald ever xD it's like pinned to humans mainly so that you suffer while you're still young because you're aware of your own existence. Silly shit.

Anyway, on a serious note, I posted that here because people obviously need encouragement and fibrosis is known as one of those things that we are trying to tackle with DT here so just pinned it here for some material for anyone who still believes DT can't do anything. Solving it mechanically from the outside is absolutely possible and it is probable with time. To people bashing the timing needed for DT results. Do it properly and after few weeks when your hair thickens like never before and after a couple of months when you're hair loss stops u'll see. Also tell me one topical or supplement or anything that is totally safe and natural and provides regrowth in less than half a year or a year. That's right, you can't. This works.

Maybe it only works for some. My temples have gotten inflamed despite going super hard at them and they are back into receding mode which sucks because I had maintained for a long time.

Keanoseg Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:18 am

If they get a bit inflammed after a DT session that is a good thing since you are trying to induce acute inflammation with DT.

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