Coming off Dutasteride

Hi guys,

I posted about this a few days ago - basically, I am hoping to have kids next year so am keen to stop taking dutasteride. I've also experienced some mild side effects such as lower libido and mild depression, and am just not comfortable taking a pharmaceutical drug over a number of years.

I've done quite a bit of research into the current natural alternatives and have come up with what I hope is a decent sounding plan for the next year. I'm planning to post monthly progress updates on this and the HairLossHelp forum for the next years so that guys in a similar position (i.e. on dut and wanting to stop it) to me can se exactly what progress, or otherwise, I'm making.

Before I do start (and put in my iHerb order!), I'm hoping to get some feedback / suggestions on the regimen I have planned for the next year. I'd be extremely grateful then, if those of you in the know could have a look at this and see what you think?

If you don't feel like reading through the whole plan, essentially I'm slowly reducing dut over the first 9 months. I'll be starting Maca at day 1, then adding PM and 7HMR Lignans at month 3.

THE PLAN:

Age 36 and losing hair since 19. I still have a good covering of hair and am not obviously balding. Previous treatments over the past 17 years not listed below include finasteride, folligen, emu oil and lysine.

Current regimen:

Topical:
polysorbate 80 with biotin & niacin before shower in morning
5% min + Azelaic acid + beta sitosterol + saw palmetto morning
xandrox 15% in evening before bed
Oral:
dut 0.5mg daily (Dr. Reddys)
Green tea extract
Ashwagandha approx 1 week on, 1 weeks off
+ lasercomb (6 laser) every 2 or 3 days

Plan for first 3 months of new regimen:

As above but reduce dut to 0.5mg every 2nd day
Add Maca (iHerb Now Maca) 1000mg / day
+ Thinking of building a laser helmet?

Plan for months 3 - 6:
Oral:
As above but reduce dut to 0.5 mg twice per week
Add 7hmr Lignans (dosage?)
Add Pueraria Mirifica 500mg / day + Arginine 1000mg / day (want to hold off on this until more guys have reported results)

Plan for months 6 - 9:
As above but reduce dut to once per week

Plan for months 9 - 12
As above but -
Stop dut
Start looking for an alternative to minoxidil

Next spring
Kids??!!

As before, thanks so much for any input. It is such a great thing to have found a positive, productive forum like this.

Ha ha, well I guess I've been a bit long-winded to invite any response!

Well, I'll be following that plan when the Maca arrives, and if any guys find themselves in the same position as myself, hopfully they'll spot this thread and can follow progress. Will post again when I start the new regimen, then every month after. Cheers all.

I think your plan is smart, cold turkey from fin/dut is never a good idea. You know plenty of people i've come across on-line have stayed on fin and had kids...

Alternative to minox could be proxy - n

Thanks mate, appreciate it. - Aye, quite honestly fin is an option if I start to lose badly on the supplements. I will be off dut whatever happens, but may substitute fin later on. I don't have any qualms having kids on fin if it comes to it, think that is well researched enough to be fne.

ataman - Looks pretty good. Make sure the Arginine is pyroglutamate rather than standard arginine.

If libido ever becomes a problem, this stuff here is awesome:

http://www.iherb.com/MRM-Natural-V-90-Capsules/4644?at=0

Adding on to what IH said regarding Libido (this will also benefit the hair as well due to the Pueraria Mirifica, standardized at 80mg):

http://www.112degrees.com

Thanks, I'll check those out. Ordered some Maca off ebay today. It seems hard to tell the good from the bad but the stuff I've ordered is organic and Peruvian so I think will be OK. I'll hopefully start the new regimen at the weekend. Both looking forward to it, and not at all.

For anyone interested:

Tomorrow is day 1 of my attempted switch from dut to naturals. I'll be initially cutting the dut dose from 0.5mg / day to 0.5mg 4 times per week (easier to remember to take on specific days rather than EOD), and introducing Maca: Organic, non-geletanised powder - at 2 heaped tea-spoonfuls per day. I will be cycling this 4 weeks on, 1 week off.

I also started taking bacopa 2 days ago (450mg/day) for mental clarity, and will be rotating this with 450mg ashwagandha (sensoril) for the same reason every three weeks.

See the first post in this thread for my full plan if you're thinking of doing the same. Will update in a few weeks (or sooner if anything dramatic happens). Cheers.

Look into curcumin too.

Thanks, been reading lots of good things about that...maybe an option for month 3.

2 days on Maca and 4 on Bacopa and already feeling mentally much clearer.

Ataman, hey I hope you are doing well.
I just want to share my experience with getting off of dutasteride.

Simply put, my hair went to shit after coming off of dutasteride. I didn't do it the way you are doing it (gradual) but I was taking a lot of supplements at the time.

I just want you to be prepared for the shedding that can take place. I think that you are in a much better situation than I am because of how you are doing it but you still have to be ready for some shedding. I don't think there is a way to totally avoid shedding when coming off of such a powerful drug like dut.

I have reintroduced Dut back into my regimen on a less frequent basis simply because it helps slow down, not stop, the progression of my hair loss. I also have received a transplant a few years ago and have a strip scar, so I am in a perdicament, because I can't simply go bald and shave my head.

I really think that DUT is an awful drug, effective, but awful for our bodies. It gives me such awful brain fog, to the point where conversations are just pointless. Furthermore it makes me tired as hell. Researchers DO NOT know the long term effects of taking dutasteride. It may be doing really awful damage to us and we don't even know it.

Interestingly enough I think that curcumin is helping with my scalp inflammation which is really good news as NOTHING has ever helped with that. I am just not completely sure if the curcumin is what is doing it as I also started using Nizoral at around the same time. Even though my inflammation in the crown is down, inflammation at my temple points is still there and my hair continues to shed.

I am using my laser helmet, taking fin and dut on different days, taking my supplements, and trying not to eat really unhealthy. But I am depressed because of the state of my hair.

I guess this post turned into a self reporting rant lol.

Good luck ataman.

I think it's positive that your body reacts to strong towards DUT, if not, you would probably consume it for many years to come and, just like you say, we know very little about it's long term effects.

Is finasteride too weak for you?

Perhaps it is the combined powers of curcumin, nizoral and laser that helps keep the inflammation down?

Well I definitely have aggressive hair loss. I really think that I am headed to a NW 7. Currently if you saw me on the street it wouldn't be that obvious that I am thinning as I still have a full head of hair, kind of.

So no, I don't think finasteride is strong enough for me. It is really strange because my inflammation went away recently and is now coming back. I am really starting to think that it is stress and anxiety. The more I stress and thinking about my hair, the worse that it gets I think.

The reduced inflammation seemed to coincide with me "feeling good" recently. I usually am highly anxious and mildly depressed, which apparently could be exacerbated by using these awful drugs.

halfempty - Have you tried the Curcumin/Resveratrol combination?

A new study that came out earlier this month explains that this combination can block Cb1 (Cannabinnoid receptor-1), which is responsible for negative hair growth signals due to stress & anxiety.

halfempty wrote:Well I definitely have aggressive hair loss. I really think that I am headed to a NW 7. Currently if you saw me on the street it wouldn't be that obvious that I am thinning as I still have a full head of hair, kind of.

So no, I don't think finasteride is strong enough for me. It is really strange because my inflammation went away recently and is now coming back. I am really starting to think that it is stress and anxiety. The more I stress and thinking about my hair, the worse that it gets I think.

The reduced inflammation seemed to coincide with me "feeling good" recently. I usually am highly anxious and mildly depressed, which apparently could be exacerbated by using these awful drugs.

half -- I'm very similar to you. I think my hairloss is all stress induced and at times of high stress my scalp gets pink and inflammation is high.

I've used Sensoril for awhile now to help with the stress response, but even while on that I still get the bouts of inflammation once in awhile. Not as frequently as before though.

I'm upping my curcumin dose to 2x a day to see if I can knock out inflammation with no flare ups.

halfempty - thanks for that, appreciate the advice even if it is a little discouraging. When you say you took a lot of supplements (that did not seem to do much) when stopping dut, what did you take, exactly?

Cod Liver Oil/Fish Oil

ALA/ALC

Biotin

Probiotics

Magnesium Orotate

Vitamin Code Multi Vitamin

LLLT (laser therapy)

I had a stint with PM but it seemed that it increased shedding. I recently started taking this again and it seems to have increased shedding again. I am not positive that it is the culprit.

You also have to factor in that I started losing my hair at like 16 and am headed for a NW 7. So maybe this shedding will not happen to you. I personally have very aggressive hair loss.

halfempty -

Finally have a chance to reply properly to you.

I'm new to the natural approach (although sadly not to mpb), but to me that sounds like an awfully 'weak' approach to the natural side of things. What about things like 7HMR, Ecklonia Cava, Maca etc? These are the things I have read the best reviews about.

And do you apply anything topically? One of the reasons I feel comfortable (well, relatively) enough to start cutting down on dut, is that adding polysorbate 80 to my regimen seemed to do as much for me as dut did. It has brought back some hairs that had been gone for literally years.

Have you thought about applying dut topically to try to avoid some of the brain fog you get? Also, if the whole thing is getting you down a bit, you should seriously think about taking Rhodiola or Ashwagandha (or Maca!). I'm pretty sure these are all good for your hair, but more importantly will stop you worrying about it and hopefully get you enjoying life more.

Re. your scar, well, I guess it would bo good to have the option to shave, but that is not something I'm planning on doing myself. Pretty short, yes, shaved, no.

Dut as a whole...I don't know how good or bad this is for us. I read somewhere it can actually have a cardioprotective effect. My main issue is that it would be extremely selfish to risk anything when trying to have kids. OK for me to put what I want in my body, not Ok for me to (indirectly) put it into someone elses.

Good luck mate.

1 month (roughly) update of attempted switch from dut to naturals:

Firstly, effects of maca @ 2 teaspoons per day w. breakfast:

Definite increase in libido, which wears off during the day. Sitting at my desk at work with a semi-permanent hard-on isn't particularly useful, and neither is suddenly wanting to bed all my co-workers ...but useful to know all the same.
I did find I got sensitive nipples after about a week of this, and also a bit of ball-ache, so this week have started taking the weekends off, and have also just reduced the dosage to one teaspoon after work.

Effects of hair:
Nothing apparent so far BUT, I have found it very difficult psychologically to stop dut, so as a result am still doing dut 5 x per week. Basically cutting down on the stuff even slower than I'd planned. So with this in mind, and the fact that I've only been doing this for a month, I guess I wouldn't expect much change.

I've also been rotating various natural anti depression / anti anxiety / barin enhancers (like bacopa, choline), but the low doses, and the fact that I'm rotating these, I don't think will be affecting my hair much.

Good luck all.

Hi all,

Time for my monthy update for anyone interested.

My maca experience has unfortunately not been good. Not long after the last post (1 month on maca, dut down to 5x per week) I noticed that my hair-line was thinning a little. Dutasteride has such a long half life that I don't believe this was caused by the reduction in dut...but to see what was going on, I stopped maca and bumped the dut back up to ED.

Unfortunately my hairline has continued to thin. I'm not really sure what has happened here. Until starting maca, my hairline was the strongest it had been for years - now, despite stopping maca, it has continued to thin. I feel I may have upset whatever delicate chemical balance was making my hair grow so well before maca.

This has had the usual effect on my self-confidence. When the hair is growing, all is well. I'm happy, fairly sociable and laid back. I'm supposed to be going to a beach barbeque today but do not feel like it in the slightest.

To put things in perspective, mine is one of the few negative maca experiences I've ready about. I think this is still good stuff for most guys / girls.

Will consider what the next step in stopping dut will be (suggestions welcome) and post again in a month or so.

Have you been under any undue stress of late? Aside from the hair loss...

Hi Petch,

No, pretty stress-free just now.

As you point out it is a bit of a vicious circle - losing hair = stress = more hair loss = more stress

"halfempty - Have you tried the Curcumin/Resveratrol combination?" - CausticSymmetry

Yes, I have. Currently I am just taking the curcumin. I am going to stay on this supplement because I DO think that it has an positive effect on my inflammation.

"I'm new to the natural approach (although sadly not to mpb), but to me that sounds like an awfully 'weak' approach to the natural side of things. What about things like 7HMR, Ecklonia Cava, Maca etc? These are the things I have read the best reviews about." - ataman

I have tried all of those supplements but they did not do anything for me and they certainly did not successfully replace finasteride. It is possible that if everything was controlled for pertaining to my health, like adrenals, stress etc, then maybe they would have been effective. I just know that they did not affect my inflammation or the progression of my hair loss.


And do you apply anything topically? - ataman

Nope, I find that if I use ANYTHING on my scalp, sans shampoo, my inflammation increases. This is true even for topicals that are supposed to decrease inflammation. I have learned that it is just the way that my body works.

Also, if the whole thing is getting you down a bit, you should seriously think about taking Rhodiola or Ashwagandha (or Maca!). I'm pretty sure these are all good for your hair, but more importantly will stop you worrying about it and hopefully get you enjoying life more. - ataman

I have experimented with both of them. The thing is that I am already on three different psychotropic drugs and taking these natural supplements aimed at the same things can interfere with the prescribed meds. Interestingly, I have noticed that I get irritable when taking ashwagandha. This is probably due to some interaction with the pharmaceuticals that I take.

Re. your scar, well, I guess it would bo good to have the option to shave, but that is not something I'm planning on doing myself. Pretty short, yes, shaved, no. - ataman

Yeah, my plan is to get some hairs transplanted into the scar and then having a short hair cut ( not shaved with a razor). Other people have had success with this approach.

I just want to add that I am adding Dut back into my reg at .5 mg a day. My hair has went to shit since lowering my dose. Natural supplements and lasering are not stopping my hair loss. I now have a prominent thin patch in my crown area and it fucking sucks.

Yes Dut is like poison, but that shit slows down hair loss like nothing else in my opinion.

I dunno maybe I will continue using Dut just every other day but I really don't know at this point.

halfempty - Thanks for that. Depressing stuff.

...I don't believe you react to all topicals. That just does't make sense.

The topicals that have worked best for me are folligen and polysorbate 80 (puritans pride). Folligen worked much better that fin, and poly 80 better than dut. Both are cheap, give them a try. You could also try emu oil.