Coming off Dutasteride

Hi all,

Just my monthly 'coming off dut' update for anyone thinking about trying the same thing.

I had quite a bad experience with maca soon after I started this thread which led to my hairline noticably thinning, but fortunately that now seems on the mend. Currently my hair seems stable again.

About 2 1/2 weeks ago I made the following changes, which so far are working well (but early days). I hope I'm slowly edging towards a natural regimen:

Additions: Added Joe's 'Hairmuck' (liquid beta-sit) topically; Started taking Green Tea in higher doses; Added Ginkgo Bilboa; Added Biotin; Added ALA

Subtractions: Reduced dutasteride to EOD; Cut out 15% minox altogether (evidence is that there is little difference betwen that and 5%).

The results of this so far are firstly that my hair is looking good. Pretty thick and maybe a little bit of growth. It may not yet have hit it that I'm taking less dut, so we'll see how this pans out.

Secondly, libido. Without going into detail, this has been enhanced pretty significantly. I think it is probably a combination of less dut, and the Ginkgo bilboa, but really, it is like being 15 years old again . This is to the extent that I have to be very careful what I think about at work - the slightest prompt, and the old fella is up there - which could frankly be pretty embarrassing if I was called over to someone elses desk.

To summarise, current regimen is:

First thing: polysorbate 80 w. biotin & niacin (puritans pride)
Shower: Nizoral every 2nd or 3rd day
After shower: Laser comb (not helmet) every 2nd or 3rd day
Before work & in evening: minox + azelaic acid + liquid beta-sis

Supps / pills: Biotin 1g, Fish Oil 2g, B Vit complex, Multivit, Lysine 1g, Green Tea 1g, Ginkgo Bilboa 120mg, dut EOD

The plan is to see how I do on lower dut. If I start to shed, I will evaluate my options. If not, I will reduce further.

Good luck all.

ataman :

I may not be able to help here much, please be patient, hair won't grow back or stop falling in a few weeks, it takes months to see a difference. I suggest you get rid of all topicals, dutasteride, supplements and anything else you may be taking, take a week off, stop worrying and then patiently begin a new regimen. I will state here what is working for me :

-) Top 6
-) 2 100mg tablets of GliSODin daily.
-) 2 tablets of L-Carnosine.
-) 2 tablets of Pomegranate fruit extract.
-) 3 grams of Maca everyday.

The GliSODin, LCarnosine, Pomegranate extract : I take these to increase the antioxidant effect of the Top 6 and combat premature graying and hopefully have a anti-aging effect, it is helping, I am 27 years old. I do not masturbate and for now I am celibate, I know this is controversial but I do believe masturbation plays a huge role in DHT production, I have developed excellent self-control to overcome this useless habit.

Please be patient, don't think about taking too much stuff, start with what IH recommends, stick to it and be disciplined. At the end of the day thats all you can really do. I hope I was of some help here.

Thanks Glacier.

My last post was actually supposed to be quite positive! Maybe it didn't come across that way.

I actually tend to do well with topicals so I don't think I'll stop those any time soon...but thanks for the suggestions, and for posting your regimen.

Essentially myself and the missus are thinking about having kids next year, so I'm slowly weaning myself off dut. I would like to follow your suggestion and just drop it and start the naturals, but unfortunately most folk that have done that have lost a lot of hair. I believe the DHT receptors have become more sensitive, so you have to undo this slowly.

Re. celibacy. I think I read that in Eastern medicine that that is good to stop hair loss, but to be honest, I've suffered from low libido for years...so now that things are waking up again its going to be difficult not to make the most of it

Sounds good to me Ataman! The ginko must be helping you out down there, increased bloodflow and an all that.

Well, its about time for another update.

Briefly, I've been sticking to the regimen in my last update. The result of this has been some slight thickening / regrowth at the front, but slight thinning at the back. For some reason this has always been the case for me - stronger at the front than back. The plan is to see how things go over the next few days...if thinning continues at the crown, I plan to add the maxi-hair vitamin/mineral formula just to make sure all the basics are covered, and then possibly start on curcumin.

Something I would say is that I have no plans whatsoever to increase dut back to one per day. Although I'm still not quite myself, I generally feel much better since having cut down on dut to EOD (and added the supplements).

Regimen for last 8 weeks or so:

First thing: polysorbate 80 w. biotin & niacin (puritans pride) 5 mins before shower
Shower: Nizoral every 2nd or 3rd day
After shower: Laser comb (not helmet) every 2nd or 3rd day
Before work & in evening:topical minox + azelaic acid + liquid beta-sis

Supps / pills: Biotin 1g, Fish Oil 2g, B Vit complex, Multivit, Lysine 1g, Green Tea 1g, Ginkgo Bilboa 120mg, ALA 75 mg, dut EOD


Good luck all.

(Thanks Petch - although sadly the effects did not last - need to get off the dut altogether!)

Hi all,

My monthly 'coming off dutasteride' post for anyone interested.

The first thing I would say is how much better I have begun feeling with my reduction in dut intake. This is likely a combination of positive effects of the supplements and less negative effects of dut, but basically I am more clear-headed, stronger at the gym, and beginning to feel more like the person I used to be.

Hair-wise, I feel things are quite positive. I cut down my dut intake to EOD about three months ago, at the same time introducing some supplements and a topical natural DHT solution. My frontal hairline is doing well (for some reason this has always been stronger than the back), and I have seen no impact of reducing the dut dosage. I believe I did start to lose some hair at the back, but I added curcumin maybe 4-ish weeks ago, which seemed to stop that shedding. Currently have slightly variable, but generally low hairloss, and as far as I can see my hair is not thinning.

At the beginning of this week I cut down to 3 dut per week (a minor reduction from EOD) and will see how I get on with that.

Current regimen is below. Last thing to note is that I cycle all my supplements, approximately 5 weeks on, 1 week off. I also have 1 day per week with no pills or supplements at all.

Topical:
polysorbate 80 (w. biotin & niacin) before shower
minox + azelaic acid + joe's 'minomuck' morning and evening
nizoral shampoo EOD
6 laser brush every 2 or 3 days

Pills / supps:
dut 3 x per week
ALA 150mg 6 days pw
biotin 1mg "
green tea - variable "
multivit "
taurine 1000mg "
lysine 500mg "
fish oil 2000mg
ginkgo 120mg
curcumin (not BCM95) 1000mg

Good luck all.

No significant changes in the last month. My hair is doing well with above regimen. If this continues, I plan to drop down to 2 dut per week in 2 months, possibly adding resveratrol and/or a natural DHT blocker / formula at the same time.

I don't know if its dropping the dut, adding the supplements, or a combnation of the 2 but I'm continuing to feel mentally and physically stronger than when I was on dut 1-a-day. That is something I am not going to go back to.

CS, thank you so much for putting this forum together (and consistently maintaining it). You've made a big difference to my quality of life.

ataman wrote:No significant changes in the last month. My hair is doing well with above regimen. If this continues, I plan to drop down to 2 dut per week in 2 months, possibly adding resveratrol and/or a natural DHT blocker / formula at the same time.

I don't know if its dropping the dut, adding the supplements, or a combnation of the 2 but I'm continuing to feel mentally and physically stronger than when I was on dut 1-a-day. That is something I am not going to go back to.

CS, thank you so much for putting this forum together (and consistently maintaining it). You've made a big difference to my quality of life.

I feel the same that CS's forum here has helped me at the very least be informed and on my way to natural better hair/health

ataman wrote:No significant changes in the last month. My hair is doing well with above regimen. If this continues, I plan to drop down to 2 dut per week in 2 months, possibly adding resveratrol and/or a natural DHT blocker / formula at the same time.

I don't know if its dropping the dut, adding the supplements, or a combnation of the 2 but I'm continuing to feel mentally and physically stronger than when I was on dut 1-a-day. That is something I am not going to go back to.

CS, thank you so much for putting this forum together (and consistently maintaining it). You've made a big difference to my quality of life.

hi ataman,
just checking in with you. how you makin' out? your regimen ok?

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the post. Are you also thinking of dropping dut, or just interested?

Things actually got a little more complicated recently. I was on holiday for 3 weeks Nov/Dec time and just before that I noticed that I'd started thinning at the front a little. Because this worried me, I didn't want to be stressing about it on holiday, and I also didn't want to carry a bucketload of vitamins etc. on holiday with me, I changed things a little.

So from about mid Nov I temporarily bumped the dut back up to 5 x per week (very reluctantly). The regimen I have been following since then (successfully - hairline has thickened up again) is:

Topical:
Polysorbate 80 before shower 5 x per week
Nizoral shampoo EOD (Jason natural shampoo other days)
Lasercomb (only 5 laser) 2 x per week
Minox with Joe's 'Hairmuck' (topical beta sis) morning and evening

Internal:
Dut 5 x per week
ALA 200 mg every day
ALCAR 250 mg every day
Fish oil 2000 mg every day
'Maxihair' multivitamin every day

Having to bump up the dut was something of a setback, but that's the nature of hairloss. I think I've learned that I do need to stay on DHT blockers of sme sort, but hopefully I can eventually switch to one of the many Prostate formulas that are around.

In the New Year the plan is to slowly cut down on dut again, slowly introducing alternatives at the same time. Not quite sure about what to try next, but as of 1st Jan I will be down to 4 dut per week again.

Have a great New Year and best wishes for 2010.

Hey ataman,

I really do not think that you can go from taking dut everday to not taking and not lose any hair, even with the addition of natural supplements. In my opinion and in my experience, you are going to lose some ground.

Dut is a strong ass drug. It will also degrade the quality of your life while you maintain your hair.

I have slowly come off of Dutasteride as well and I have been happier for it emotionally and have better cognitive functioning. I WILL lose hair though and I HAVE lost hair and this definitely stresses me out.

If you are going to go on the natural only route to fight hair loss, then I think you have to dedicate a significant amount of time and energy into learning about your body and what you can and can't eat. What works for one person may not work for another person. It seems that this takes some people YEARS to figure out how to naturally fight their hair loss.

Everyday I still look at my bottle of Avodart and ask myself "should I start taking it today?" and who knows maybe I will regress and start it again when my hair really starts to fall out. I dunno. The whole situation is very frustrating and we all know that stress equals hair loss.

Just yesterday I was driving in my car and was thinking about how I wanted to have long hair so badly. The WANT was so intense. It is really interesting how much hair can affect someone.

Ataman/Halfempty,

PLease keep this thread alive and continue to update us. I dropped avodart semi cold turkey around may I think. I had not been taking it everyday for some months before that and I would take a week or so off sometimes if I was extra sexually active.

I basically ran out of dutasteride and fell back onto finasteride. The finasteride seems so weak in comparison to the dut! My libido still wasn't back and my anxiety through the roof as I've always suffered from it and I have to come off klonopin (hardest drug ever IMO). So I dropped the finasteride for about 2 months and my hair got really bad fast. So I went back on the finasteride reluctantly.

I do feel mentally and physically much better since stopping dut, but it is so psychologically addictive because it is the only thing that seems to completely stop hairloss and noticeable increase hair diameter to where when it is wet, the hair can be spiked up and stay that way- like the follicles/hair shaft are just stronger. It's such a depressing catch-22.

Ataman,

When you say that P80 helped as much as dut, how can you tell when you were taking dut at the same time? I'm kind of confused on that.

I'd like to add a topical that I can get all over my head (as I have a good amiount of hair) so it needs to be a liquid. I was thinking about what you said about P80. My skeptical mind says that just sounds too good to be true. How can you attribute so much to the P80 when you were/are taking other topicals and internals?

Also...Would you recommend starting the liquid beta-sis? I stopped minoxidil back when I was still on dut, but I need some psychological comfort from having a topical approach and I just don't have one. Where do you buy, or how do you make the liquid BS?

Lastly Ataman,
Am I reading correctly that you are not taking finasteride at all- just dut? Do you feel that it is worthless, and that you might as well just go the natural route if you drop dut? Sorry about all the questions. I'm pretty stressed over my current hair situation right now, and have been putting off a topical from indecision for some time. No topical just jumps out at me as being that great on its own.

Thanks a lot!

Ataman/Halfempty,

PLease keep this thread alive and continue to update us. I dropped avodart semi cold turkey around may I think. I had not been taking it everyday for some months before that and I would take a week or so off sometimes if I was extra sexually active.

I basically ran out of dutasteride and fell back onto finasteride. The finasteride seems so weak in comparison to the dut! My libido still wasn't back and my anxiety through the roof as I've always suffered from it and I have to come off klonopin (hardest drug ever IMO). So I dropped the finasteride for about 2 months and my hair got really bad fast. So I went back on the finasteride reluctantly.

I do feel mentally and physically much better since stopping dut, but it is so psychologically addictive because it is the only thing that seems to completely stop hairloss and noticeable increase hair diameter to where when it is wet, the hair can be spiked up and stay that way- like the follicles/hair shaft are just stronger. It's such a depressing catch-22.

Ataman,

When you say that P80 helped as much as dut, how can you tell when you were taking dut at the same time? I'm kind of confused on that.

I'd like to add a topical that I can get all over my head (as I have a good amiount of hair) so it needs to be a liquid. I was thinking about what you said about P80. My skeptical mind says that just sounds too good to be true. How can you attribute so much to the P80 when you were/are taking other topicals and internals?

Also...Would you recommend starting the liquid beta-sis? I stopped minoxidil back when I was still on dut, but I need some psychological comfort from having a topical approach and I just don't have one. Where do you buy, or how do you make the liquid BS?

Lastly Ataman,
Am I reading correctly that you are not taking finasteride at all- just dut? Do you feel that it is worthless, and that you might as well just go the natural route if you drop dut? Sorry about all the questions. I'm pretty stressed over my current hair situation right now, and have been putting off a topical from indecision for some time. No topical just jumps out at me as being that great on its own.

Thanks a lot!

Hi JHarsh / HalfEmpty,

Thanks for the posts - sorry for the delay in replying, there hasn't been much visible interest in this thread in the past, so I don't check that often. Will try to address each point in turn:

HalfEmpty:

I think the situation with dut is complicated. I agree that it will probably be tough coming off it, and probably you will lose some hair. But as regards its 'side effects', I'm just not sure.

I had thought that coming off it had increased my libido / cognitive function / mental state etc., but in fact I think this was all more due to the supplements I was taking, rather than the fact I was cutting down on dut. Back on 5 dut a day, I am happier just now than I have been in a long time. Regarding long term effects...there is evidence that this is not good long term, but most herbalists will say that many herbs should not be taken long term either with no breaks.

I think ideally the natural way forward is the best way, and I think its very admirable that you are going down the natural route despite losing hair. I hope things go well enough for you that you can stay off the stuff.

JHarsh:

When you say that P80 helped as much as dut, how can you tell when you were taking dut at the same time? I'm kind of confused on that.

Well, that was on the basis that even dut seemed to be losing some effectiveness for me at the end of last year. I introduced P80 (with biotin & niacin) and got much better growth overall than dut had given me alone. So I suppose more accurately it was really a combination of the 2.

I'd like to add a topical that I can get all over my head (as I have a good amiount of hair) so it needs to be a liquid. I was thinking about what you said about P80. My skeptical mind says that just sounds too good to be true. How can you attribute so much to the P80 when you were/are taking other topicals and internals?

I think its worth a try - its very cheap and the mix I use is from Puritans Pride. They have a bizarre buy-2-get-3-free offer just now which means you get well over a years supply for about $25 (I don't work for them!). Its also good in that you slap it on for 5 minutes before a shower then wash it out...no sticky hair during the day.

Also...Would you recommend starting the liquid beta-sis? I stopped minoxidil back when I was still on dut, but I need some psychological comfort from having a topical approach and I just don't have one. Where do you buy, or how do you make the liquid BS?

I'm not sure. It seems to have done something for me but I'd try Puritans P80 first. If you do use it, I'd try to avoid mixing with minox. From everything I've read, once you been on minox for a while, you are pretty much committed for life or you lose a lot of hair when you try to stop (whether or not it has done anything for you)

Lastly Ataman,
Am I reading correctly that you are not taking finasteride at all- just dut? Do you feel that it is worthless, and that you might as well just go the natural route if you drop dut? Sorry about all the questions. I'm pretty stressed over my current hair situation right now, and have been putting off a topical from indecision for some time. No topical just jumps out at me as being that great on its own

Yes, just dut. I think there are naturals that could replace finasteride (check out hairloss-research.org), but not dutasteride.

A final word. If anxiety really is a problem for you, try CBT (possibly with a natural anti-anxiety supplement like 5 HTP). CBT takes hard work and dedication, but it works...I am happier than I have been in a long time. I can give you more details if you'd like them.

Good luck my friend.

Ataman,

Thanks for answering my questions. I think I will give the P80 a shot, thanks for the PP tip.

I thought i could hold my hair going only the natural route too, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case so far despite the many supplements I take including EC, curcumin/resveratrol, ALA, biotin, etc. I hope you are more successful than I was. I admit that I have always taken the supplements [/i]with[i] finasteride, so maybe the worsening was just do to the absence of the synergism in my case. I also tend to freak out about worsening and tend to get back on the 5ar inhibitors fairly quickly. Some say that it gets worse before it gets better, but I don't have that much faith I guess. Knowing that maintaining is possible whereas regrowth is next to impossible, it makes it very hard to give up all the years (11) I have "invested" with the drugs...Not just financially but living with the sides. I also haven't checked out hairloss research.org; I'll do that.

I'd definitely be interested in the CBT specifics. I know what CBT is, as I know a fair amount about psychology. In the past CBT for me was kind of forced. For instance if I was feeling bad from too much idle time and withdrawing more, I would be forced to get a job where I would start to feel better. I've never done CBT where the only benefit was psychological. Inadvertently might be the best word to describe it. Other than the basic principle of pushing your comfort zone until you become comfortable, I don't have any details, but that would be great if you could shoot me a pm on it.

Good luck to you to, and keep us posted

Hi JHarsh - I've pm'ed you but I think there may be an issue with my pm's just now (both sending and receiving)...let me know if you don't get it and I'll resend (or just post here).

Hi all,

Its been a while. I've been having some problems with hair loss even on dutasteride so have been doing some research recently to try to see what's going on.

I've always been dubious about the hypothyroid cause, but think this may have something to do with my hair loss. I have thinning eyebrows and very cold hands and feet which can apparently be good indicators, so I recently added kelp extract to up my iodine intake. Also added iron.

I'm pretty sure if I bumped up the dut again this would control the loss...but I don't want to go down that road.

The main thing I'm planning to to is add the LEF prostate formula in place on dut (well, dut down to 2 x per week), since I don't believe dut is covering all the bases. Also dropping GTE and adding toco-sorb. As of Monday, my regimen will be:

Topical:
Polysorbate 80 with biotin and niacin before shower
Nizoral shampoo every 2nd day
5% minoxidil with liquid saw palmetto / beta sit 2 x per day (Joe's Hairmuck)
Emu oil 1x per day
Lasercomb (small, 5 laser, 2 or 3 times per week)

Oral:
Dr Reddy's dutasteride 2 x per week
LEF ultra-natural prostate formula 5 x per week
'Maxi Hair' multivits ED
Vitamin D3 1000iu ED
Fish oil 2000mg ED
Toco-Sorb ED
ALA 200mg ED
ALCAR 250mg ED
Kelp extract 300mcg ED
Iron 14mg

As I've said, the thing that is now helping me most is CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy). Basically, I still worry abut losing hair, but far less than I used to (despite the fact that I'm currently shedding). I'm much more laid back than I used to be, get on better with my work colleagues, and generally worry far less about everything.

Good luck all.

ataman - 1,000 IU of D3 isn't going to do much, you'll want to increase to 5,000 IU

Iron is a huge mistake, would drop it immediately.

If you take enough iodine (kelp is sometimes a source of Lead (Pb) and may not contain enough iodine to detoxify all the bromide (from dutasteride), fluoride and other halogens from other sources.

Hi CS,

Thanks for the response.

I'll up the Vit D to 5000. I live in a pretty sunlight-free country so no worries about addition skin-produced vit D.

Secondly, why do you say that iron is a mistake? I've had blood tests in the past which showed low iron (very low ferro- something). The hairloss-research.org website also says that this often complements other treatments?

Finally, what is the safe daily dose of iodine? What does would you recommend for someone with (possible, mild) hypothyroidism?

ataman-

You know how long is the half-life of Avodart ? I'm thinking of trying it

Hi mate,

Seriously? Are the naturals not working for you?

It has a long half-life, something lke 5 weeks. If you've been on it for a while, it can take a few months for it to be 100% out of your system.

I'd thoroughly explore the natural side of things first. The problem with dut (other than the side effects that some guys experience - reduced libido, reduced cogniton, occasionally gyno) is that its still a bit of an unknown. The drug has only been around 8 years or so, so the long term effects are still fairly unknown.

It does seem to grow hair pretty well for most folk, but its effects, as with finasteride, eventually seem to wane.

I think you need to address the whole picture, not just block the DHT.

ataman wrote:Hi mate,

Seriously? Are the naturals not working for you?

It has a long half-life, something lke 5 weeks. If you've been on it for a while, it can take a few months for it to be 100% out of your system.

I'd thoroughly explore the natural side of things first. The problem with dut (other than the side effects that some guys experience - reduced libido, reduced cogniton, occasionally gyno) is that its still a bit of an unknown. The drug has only been around 8 years or so, so the long term effects are still fairly unknown.

It does seem to grow hair pretty well for most folk, but its effects, as with finasteride, eventually seem to wane.

I think you need to address the whole picture, not just block the DHT.

I tried Fin and Saw Palmetto but none worked for me, I will try to use Dut EOD

ataman wrote:Hi CS,

Thanks for the response.

I'll up the Vit D to 5000. I live in a pretty sunlight-free country so no worries about addition skin-produced vit D.

Secondly, why do you say that iron is a mistake? I've had blood tests in the past which showed low iron (very low ferro- something). The hairloss-research.org website also says that this often complements other treatments?

Finally, what is the safe daily dose of iodine? What does would you recommend for someone with (possible, mild) hypothyroidism?

Iron deficiency is extremely rare, especially in men. It isn't that there is an iron shortage (many tests are misleading, and free iron and bound iron, along with ferritin only tell part of the story), the question is how much heme (the oxygen part of iron) is working to oxygenate the cell, which can be helped by iodine and a removal of mercury burden.

Fortified iron is going to cause accelerated aging (not the kind in food, unless it's the flour products).

Thanks CS.

Steven_Tyler: I'd be surprised if dut EOD didn't stop your hair loss. It certainly worked far better than fin for me. You might want to also take something like ALCAR to reduce the anxiety/depression that some seem to experience, that has helped a great deal for me. If you have libido issues, there are also many things that can help.