Coming off Dutasteride

ataman,

what supplements can be taken with dut to minimize the damaging effects on our bodies?

thanks man!

Hi Rob - Sorry for the delay, I'm not on the forum much these days.

The answer is, I don't know. Problem with dut is that because its still a new drug its still pretty unknown. There are things that can help with any side effects you experience (i.e. you're being reactive rather than proactive):

"Brain fog" / depression / anxiety - Something like ALCAR, Bacopa, vinpocetine, ginkgo, maybe one of the numerous other chemical nootropics out there (piracetam, aniracetam, idebenone, sulbutamine etc. etc.). I think individual responses vary a lot, so you may need to experiment. Thinking about piracetam myself, i might post seperately about that.

Libido - Ashwagandha, ginkgo, muira puama, damiana etc.

I'm not sure about actually 'protecting' your body against dut though. CS might have some ideas?? Problem is, depending on what you read / where you read it, some doctors will tell you that there's absolutely nothing wrong with it...

Good luck.

Just a quick update for anyone interested. I was having problems mantaining even with a pretty extensive regimen, including 5 dut per week. At CS's suggestion I've introduced iodine (kelp) and increased my vitamin D intake to 5000iu per day. These seem to have stopped loss and instigated some regrowth. I've also introduced iron EOD (CS did not recommend this)...I'm not sure what impact this is having, but it doesn't seem to be doing any harm. To strengthen the hairline I'm also using tretinoin cream about 3 times per week.

I tried the LEF ultra natural prostate formula but had to stop that due to very sensitive nipples. I think it has a high level of photoestrogens which I personally don't seem to do so well with.

Finally, and most importantly, I've reduced dut back down to 4 x per week which I'm happy about. Will be gradually dropping this further every month or two.

Good luck all.

hi ataman,

as always, thanks for sharing. i know how hard it is to through the ups and down. you taking the time to share with us really good experience is very helpful to all of us.

Thanks Rob. How did you do with the folligen?

I'm still maintaining / growing well on the above regimen and 4 dut per week. I think increasing vitamin D is the main thing that stopped loss, but the kelp (iodine) and iron may also be having an effect. Lots of change in my life just now so don't want to cut back further until things have calmed down a bit, but all going well the plan is to drop to 3 dut per week next month, then 2 per week around August time. When I drop to 2 per week I'm going to introduce natural dht blockers, pretty sure I'll need something after years on fin/dut.

Good luck all.

Ataman,

How's it going? I changed names- jharsh80, and it's ironic that you posted on this thread because I just went back on dutasteride 2 days ago- VERY reluctantly! I was off of it for months- maybe 5-6?...then switched to finasteride for a couple months, and then dropped it too. I was doing pretty damn well without any drugs for I'd say 4-6 months. Sorry my concept of time/memory is really pathetic these days. All my supplements, diet, no gluten, no alcohol, etc., were keeping my hair loss down to an extremely slow rate, but it has still receded some in all that time unfortunately. Strangely the crown actually seemed to thicken up some, but the hairline has always been the main problem for me, and nothing but dutasteride has ever basically completely stopped it.

My approach now is much more of a natural/healthy one, and I'm hoping that giving my body a long break from dutasteride coupled with my natural regimen and eliminating mercury/lead will be the synergism I really need to put me over the edge into regrowth.
I'm not going to take it everyday though, maybe a few times a week.

Regarding what to take for the depression/anxiety from dutasteride. You want to take pregnenolone! I don't know why I didn't look into pregnenolone a long time ago when CS told me that fin/dut lowers it, but I should have! I just started taking it (100mg/day) and I feel good man! This is prior to reintroducing the dutasteride. I may have to boost it up more if that dreaded depression/anxiety comes back, but hopefully it won't. I would really suggest it if you are staying on the dut. Hell, even if you aren't maybe?

Where do you order your retin-A cream? Or do you have a Rx for it? I'd like to start using some on my temples and around my eyes again. I'm hoping it will help with the laugh lines and thicken up the thin skin. I read someone say that their skin was thin from using retin-a, but as far as I know retin-a thickens skin and builds collagen, so I have no idea what they were talking about?

BTW, I also started dhea 5mg and that probably helps with the mood too.

I think the vitamin D and iodine is a great addition. iodine is really good because it removes/displaces fluoride (which dutasteride has in it!). Fluoride will slow the thyroid down among other things. Maybe the brain fog is partly from the fluoride? Anti-depressants like prozac have fluoride too, and I'd attest to those dumbing you down.

Anyway man, thanks for the update and keep us posted. I don't visit those 'mainstream' hair sites anymore, so you're my last connection to the land of hair drugs

BTW- pregnenolone is low in the spinal fluid of people with depression. It is also a huge cognitive enhancing agent Those things combined, plus all the other benefits (awesome article!): http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/nov2007_report_pregnenolone_01.htm really come together and explain why dutasteride causes depression/anxiety/brain fog. Maybe the pregnenolone will help the libido side too?

Another thing I forgot to add is that I had/have(?) hypolipidemea (low cholesterol). This can cause damn near everything because all hormones are made from cholesterol. You will die without it. Just a heads up for you because the only thing that I think could have caused it was the dutasteride. Needless to say I am going to be very careful this time around and keep an eye on my hormone levels!

Paradox,

i am sad to say i am seriously going to try dutasteride now. as much as i do not want to..

im on fin now along with CS's natural regiment. i notice slight improvement but not amazing improvement. its been about 9 months now.

i have amazing improvement in my overall body health and my workouts in the gym are awesome!

my hair...so-so...i do not think fin is working anymore as well. it worked great like 10 years ago for about 4-5 years....

so...i think i'm going to give dut. a try along pregnenolone. i never felt any side effects from fin. im personally hornier than ever..no problems whatsoever in that department. i think my mood is pretty good overall....

so..i'll update everyone on my progress....i think i''m SADLY going to try dutasteride.

Paradox / Rob,

Good to hear your updates.

Paradox, a couple of things. Firstly, if you've been off dht blockers all that time with little shedding, why don't you try the natural DHT blockers first instead (nettle root, pygeum, beta sit etc)? Seems like you don't need somethng as strong as dut?

Regarding retin A, I get it from United Pharmacies. I also get my dut from them (they are New Zealand based but buy their stock from India), they've been fine for a few years now. Retin A thickens skin (lots of science behind it as an anti-aging skin cream) , but some people apparemtly find it too irritating to use.

Pregnenolone and DHEA. I have heard good things about both of these (I think I've read somewhere else that preg is good for those taking dut), but that you have to be quite careful with them. My understanding is that anything hormone-related needs to be handled quite carefully. I'll give them some thought though.

One good side effect of dut is that I'm now an expert on brain enhancing nutrients / drugs , so don't suffer so much from the dut haze these days. Just have a look on wikipedia under 'nootropic'...quite extraordinary.

So no success with the folligen then Rob? Sorry to hear that, I had great results a few years back. Can't remember if you said you'd tried dut before...if not, start out slowly, 2 or 3 a week may be all you need. My experience is that its much stronger than fnasteride. Good luck.

ataman,

I was into nootropics years ago, but i prefer to stay away from all drugs now. I remember being into gabapentin for a while.

I really hate the idea of dutasteride but the way I look at is if I'm going to mess with dht and all and risk any kind of sides, then I'm just going to do it 100% and have the peace of mind that comes with it. (until the sides!)

like you, finasteride never did much for me, so I choose not to even risk further recession with it or natural dht herbs. When I look in the mirror and see the hairline inching back, I panic because that is more bald scalp. I think general thinning might be easier for me to deal with, but it feels more like permanent loss at the hairline because it's so difficult to recover. It's an urgency issue really.

You're right about preg/dhea. You have to be careful with any hormone/s. Although dutasteride probably does more hormonal damage than anything else I can think of.

Rob,

I agree....take it easy with it at first and use maybe 2-3 a week. i can't endorse the stuff, but i know what the desperation feels likes- it sux. I'm not one of those people who is satisfied with slowing my recession down, or even stopping it. When I look in the mirror it bothers me so bad that I must have regrowth. I think i must get it back! So even though I've been doing pretty well and feeling in better and better health, I just figure that I have to act anyway.

I always have stopped for some time or taken breaks. In retrospect it probably did work out to 3-4 pills a week because i would take breaks for a couple weeks and then be on everyday for some. This time around I'll just do 2-3 a week to avoid as many sides. I would drop it in the past when I was seeing a new girl for example. Hope that helps

Ataman, thanks for the retin-a source. I live 30 minutes from the mexican border so i used to get smart drugs, retin-a, anything really down there. I don't go down there anymore though. I liked the retin-a in the past from what I remember. I'd like to try the gel.

I forgot to add that it is not the end of the world this time around because now I know that I have lead and mercury in my system that I'm working to rid, and I know that my adrenals are fatigued, and I have insulin resistance.

I strongly believe that in the future when the metals are gone and my insulin response is improved...my hair loss will stop completely and I can stop the dutasteride. For now it's just a band-aid really. I'm much more optimistic now.

Hey Paradox,

Well good luck with it. I used to know very well the feeling of 'I just want it to stop falling out', although am a little bit better at keeping things in perspective these days (the wonders of CBT).

Remember that when you start back on the dut, it can be hard to stop. Although I had a rare look at one of the other hair loss boards recently, and there are least 4 companies at reasonably advanced stages of developing 'permanent' hair loss solutions. So maybe its just a case of holding out till then.

Re nootropics...I am fascinated by them but don't plan on really taking anything long term (other than ALCAR/ALA which I take on a 3 weeks on :1 week off basis mainly for hair loss). I have an extremely difficult project coming up at work, so am experimenting a bit just now to see what will work for me when the going gets tough. Piracetam, sulbutiamine and picamilon - not much more than enhanced vitamins - is about as far as I have / will experiment. None of the scarier stuff like vasopressin for me...

I thought I would never say this, mostly because I wanted to try to fix things au natural..but I think I am going to try finasteride out as I just ordered some generic pills online. I have been trying the natural route for a while now and it seems my hairloss is fairly hard to combat. I have my dad's genes and he said he was pretty much bald by the age 23...I turn 22 in 2 weeks. I have fairly good coverage but alot of the hairs not terminal. I think if I can turn these hairs terminal I will be in pretty good shape. This is where fin comes in. I have had facial hair growth, body hair growth and acne...all the good stuff since gr 6 or even before. I think I must have alot of DHT circulating in my system. I was gonna try to get some natural dht blockers but I said what the hell I might as well get something is actually proven to work instead of people assuming it works. I am still gonna be on my supplements as I do think they give an all around good health benefit but I think finasteride must be incorporated to battle my kind of hair loss.

Just thought I'd share that haha it sucks but if it can give my hair a boost with no sides then its worth a shot. I will be taking the 5 mg tablets and splitting them to 1.25 and taking EOD.

Ataman,

I know that dutasteride can be seductive when the situation seems hopeless, but I'll be careful....thanks.

That's good to know about future solutions. The wounding with stem cells looks promising.

Out of curiosity, why the on/off rotation with ALA/ALC?

Lucky13 - Good luck mate. Chances are, it will work for you.

Paradox - I cycle pretty much everything, since I've read in more than one place that this is a good idea. Reasons include (not necessarily applying to ALA/ALCAR): Allowing your body to clear out any fillers, prevent build up of the substance in the body, prevent tolerance, prevent overstimulation, and quite a few more. Check out Ray Sahelian's website.

ALA and ALCAR are very well studied and recognised as safe, but even they can have unexpected effects. E.g I've read that both reduce thyroid function, and ALCAR can increase the incidence of seizures, in those prone. These aren't serious, or even significant, for the vast majority, but I'm very cautious about any pill/supplement I take.

interesting thread. Do I understand it correctly that youre still on dut but your sides are gone because u take less and also take some additional supplements?

hi all, sorry for the lack of updates if anyone has been taking an interest, been crazy busy recently. still not a smooth road to being dut-free, but recently cut down to 3 per week, aim is 2 by november. libido seems on the up, but hard to tell. on my mobile so this will be short and sweet, good luck all.

guys,

i hate report this but i started Dut along with IH's top 8 now.

Its been about 7 weeks on Dut. taking it every OTHER day. so about 3/week.

i stopped fin and immediately started Dut.

i know it sucks but man....my hairline area was not getting better. it was getting worse

i have no problems with libido. i been bangin a few chicks left and right....i met this new hottie; sorry sorry! went off topic here for a bit!

any expectations i should have in Dut?
how long for some good effects to kick in?
i reacted well to fin for the first 7 years, should i react well to dut?
what can i take to minimize any bad effects of dut?

thanks guys!

THANK you atman for the update

But i think to join the club of Dut users but i am worried about the mental health and also i am going have surgery in my mouth to extract two wise teeth and i read DHT important for bone growth and i fear if i take Dut i will suffer from bone loss . any advice on that ?

ataman wrote:hi all, sorry for the lack of updates if anyone has been taking an interest, been crazy busy recently. still not a smooth road to being dut-free, but recently cut down to 3 per week, aim is 2 by november. libido seems on the up, but hard to tell. on my mobile so this will be short and sweet, good luck all.

Dude it's been a year and a half since you announced you're coming off dut and you're still taking three per week? I understand gradually coming off it, and I applaud your intentions, but why are you dragging it out so long? I was on 1 mg propecia every day for nearly 10 years and when I decided to get off I cut down to a half pill for about two weeks, then a quarter for a couple weeks, then a quarter eod for about two weeks then completely off, all said in about a month in a half max. I had absolutely no problems getting off this quickly and I'm positive I could have done it much quicker even than that. I'm just seriously wondering what are you concerned about with just quitting?

Hi all,

Down to 2 dut per week and holding well so far. Taking a lot of supplements, I'll update with the full regimen next time.

Thanks for the comments, responses as follows:

Rob - Have been messaging you anyway. Yup, response times etc. are pretty much down to the individual. I'm not sure if a good response to fin necessarily means a good response to dut...my understanding is that they're entirely different drugs (like comparing apples to oranges as someone put it). Regarding minimising side effects, doesn't sound like you're having any!

medohat - Yes, there is some evidence that dut can lead to anxiety / depression (I think it depletes levels of a hormone - pregnenolone - in the brain). I haven't heard much about bone growth I'm afraid, but you should let your doc know you're taking it before any surgery.

johnt - That post is encouraging. I did try to cut down a bit faster but lost hair, so it has been a matter of trying different things. Having educated myself a lot more on the mechanisms of hair loss, I'm more confident about the regimen I'm on now.

ataman! much appreciated buddy. please keep us informed.

also, i remember reading about taking preg. to minimize sides of dut.

thanks again!

ataman wrote:Hi all,

Down to 2 dut per week and holding well so far. Taking a lot of supplements, I'll update with the full regimen next time.

Thanks for the comments, responses as follows:

Rob - Have been messaging you anyway. Yup, response times etc. are pretty much down to the individual. I'm not sure if a good response to fin necessarily means a good response to dut...my understanding is that they're entirely different drugs (like comparing apples to oranges as someone put it). Regarding minimising side effects, doesn't sound like you're having any!

medohat - Yes, there is some evidence that dut can lead to anxiety / depression (I think it depletes levels of a hormone - pregnenolone - in the brain). I haven't heard much about bone growth I'm afraid, but you should let your doc know you're taking it before any surgery.

johnt - That post is encouraging. I did try to cut down a bit faster but lost hair, so it has been a matter of trying different things. Having educated myself a lot more on the mechanisms of hair loss, I'm more confident about the regimen I'm on now.

Hi all,

Holding well on two dutasteride per week so cutting down to one dutasteride per week. As usual I'm pretty pushed for time but I will definitely post my current (extensive) non-dutasteride regime if all continues to go well. The main thing to note is that mentally I feel like 'myself' for the first time in a while. Not really possible to tell whether this is due to reduced dut or increased supplements, but it's a good thing