detumescence really works.

Thanks again cd

But I won't quit, especially since I experienced many of the phenomena of DT as the original Hong Kong study mentioned, I flattened my rock hard widow's peak, loosened my scalp, expelled a ton of grease and sebum...

I wonder if there would be any harm in doing a light kneading massage for a few hours every day, not counting DT. That might be my next move.

I have a lot of dead skin on my temples, I might do an acid peel simple because it's so disgusting to see how much dead skin there is.

thank you so much cdto 2012 for good quality information and links ..the lady sounds very logical on what she said about demodex mite, specially when she said she use a microscop to see this thing in a real time at the opening of the hair follicales ...i found the picture... be carfull it looks ugly



that realy scary ...it is unbleivable this thing is living in our skin...now we have to find a way to attack this sh!t hard
this guy here talking about clearing this demon .. i didnt read it yet but i will do in a next few hours.
http://www.demodexclear.com/

long hair wrote:thank you so much cdto 2012 for good quality information and  links ..the lady sounds very logical on what she said about demodex mite, specially when she said she use a microscop to see this thing in a real time at the opening of the  hair follicales ...i found the picture... be carfull it looks ugly



that realy scary ...it is unbleivable this thing is living in our skin...now we have to find a way to attack this sh!t hard
this guy here talking about clearing this demon .. i didnt read it yet but i will do in a next few hours.
http://www.demodexclear.com/

I wonder if Apple Cider Vinegar spraying could help?

i already use white vinegar for 2 month now but even if we get rid of this thing how much time our scalp/follicles will take to come back to the normal size?
also the lady can use her microscop to test how vinegar will affect on this parasites .so we must keep cheking that forum.

i was on DT for almost six months and my hair was getting thicker, but when i shave my head i saw two huge wrinkles and it was awful. I was scared and i stopped DT. Does anyone else has notice that?

Tea tree oil is what is highly recommended at 50% concentrate diluted in another oil.
http://rosacea-support.org/just-how-do-you-kill-demodex-mites.html

   I also wasted no time. I mixed 100% tea tree with virgin olive oil 50-50 . I am not sure that vinegar at 5% acetic acid has the absorption to reach the mites when they are hiding in the pores , but it is a recommended treatment.
http://www.edennuganics.co.uk/apple-cider-vinegar-rosacea-ax-28/

  Wow found a must read ( or skim highlights ) of a science/ government publication article on the mites. They really spell it out about hair loss and the mites. I will share a few of the highlights.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884930/
 "Demodex, a genus of tiny parasitic mites that live in or near hair follicles of mammals... Infestation with Demodex is common; prevalence in healthy adults varying between 23-100%  "
   "  AGA = Androgenetic alopecia
It has been proposed that inflammation reaction in AGA is confined to the surrounding area of sebaceous glands and infundibulum, and follicular infiltration with activated T cells results in induced synthesis of collagen by dermal sheath fibroblasts and ultimately replacement of hair follicle with fibrosis takes place  "

  Basically they say that the inflammation from the chewing and dead body of the mites in the pores activates the immune T- cells to build up collagen and fibrosis killing the hair growth. Inflammation alters hormones (perhaps DHT sensitivity, as DHT makes hair grow in the rest of the body parts) .  Also the irritation makes more oil and sebum production leading to a better habitat for more mites.
The article also mentions " Dissecting folliculitis"  basically where the hair just falls out from something like a bacterial infection.

     "due to low sebum production, infants and children lack significant Demodex colonization ....The number of Demodex mites present in the lesion increases with age.The prevalence of infestation with Demodex mites is highest in the 20-30 years age group, when the sebum secretion rate is at its highest. Older people are also more likely to carry the mites.  "
   They say that children carry very few mites, and the number incenses as sebum secretion is at it's peak in the 20-30 years age group. I think  they say older people usually have the mites, but not as many as the 20-30 year olds, as sebum production is reduced in older people.
   Wow this sure sounds like the cycle of mid 20's fast shed balding that I have been talking about .  Then my hairloss in my 35-45 years was much slower with very few times that I noticed hair loss on a daily basis.
  I still wonder if a strong massage flushes out and crushes a % of these mites.  Or if physically flushing  the scalp of excess sebum can reduce their numbers.  To really get rid of them is a major lifestyle commitment. To manage them seems reasonable, they do not seem to make women lose most of their hair.  I wonder if the MPB is DHT related to make guys produce too much/more sebum, and the mites follow.  
  It seems that DHT is either the cause of more sebum, or the increased sebum stimulates DHT reactions,  but it seems that men generally produce more sebum and it is hormonally controlled.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dht+sebum+production&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
  The other factor that was also mentioned in the article was the response of the immune system. This is the reaction of the body to the mites, bacteria, human dead cells, etc.  Basically, some of the answer to the fibrosis and selective hairloss may reside in how the body treats invaders that try to enter the scalp bloodstream so close to the brain. The article says that it is the immune system (t-cells) that deposit the fibrosis, this is like building a scar or isolation tumor to seal off the hair follicle to prevent the constant invasion of parasites and bacteria.
 The article is long and scientific,  but sure was valuable to my understanding.

I am going to go a little over the rainbow here and present something that came to mind. It seems that dog mange is caused by a very similar mite.
" It may surprise you to know that demodectic mites of various species live on the bodies of virtually every adult dog and most human beings"
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2101&aid=729
The treatment that Edgar Cayce gave for baldness was Pennsylvania Crude Oil. I always wondered about that. Some have claimed that it worked for them.
https://www.google.co.th/search?q=edgar+cayce+baldness+crude&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=mSkyVu6tHYG_0ATpkYSYBQ
Pure crude oil is different than processed oil with detergents and other poisons added. I have heard of people, and I know first hand of painting their dog's mange with used motor oil, and have seen it heal the mange. It is not a good idea, as the toxins of the oil are many.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153480-Mange-Cure-Dunk-dog-in-used-motor-oil
The line of thinking is that many other oils are used to kill the mites as common remedies. The sulphur is common in motor oil and soaps to treat scabies. Actually mineral oil, vasoline, petrolanthium, liquid paraffin, parrifin oil, are all petroleum extracts and very bad for the skin and body .
http://beautyeditor.ca/2014/10/16/petroleum-mineral-oil-skin-products
Ok so a better cure that is used to cure mange that I think can be used on humans also is hydrogen peroxide and borax (borax soap).
http://www.earthclinic.com/pets/dog_mange_cure.html
Veterinary science is well developed to deal with parasites. Humans that eat pork mostly have trichinosis parasites, but doctors almost never test for parasites as the cause of problems in humans. In veterinary medicine, de worming , and testing and treating parasites is central to the science. Even from the info on mange, it is well known that mange causes hairloss. How many people look at a bald person and think, those pesky mites got another one ?

cdto2012 wrote:Tea tree oil is what is highly recommended at 50% concentrate diluted in another oil.
http://rosacea-support.org/just-how-do-you-kill-demodex-mites.html

   I also wasted no time. I mixed 100% tea tree with virgin olive oil 50-50 . I am not sure that vinegar at 5% acetic acid has the absorption to reach the mites when they are hiding in the pores , but it is a recommended treatment.
http://www.edennuganics.co.uk/apple-cider-vinegar-rosacea-ax-28/

  Wow found a must read ( or skim highlights ) of a science/ government publication article on the mites. They really spell it out about hair loss and the mites. I will share a few of the highlights.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884930/
 "Demodex, a genus of tiny parasitic mites that live in or near hair follicles of mammals... Infestation with Demodex is common; prevalence in healthy adults varying between 23-100%  "
   "  AGA = Androgenetic alopecia
It has been proposed that inflammation reaction in AGA is confined to the surrounding area of sebaceous glands and infundibulum, and follicular infiltration with activated T cells results in induced synthesis of collagen by dermal sheath fibroblasts and ultimately replacement of hair follicle with fibrosis takes place  "

  Basically they say that the inflammation from the chewing and dead body of the mites in the pores activates the immune T- cells to build up collagen and fibrosis killing the hair growth. Inflammation alters hormones (perhaps DHT sensitivity, as DHT makes hair grow in the rest of the body parts) .  Also the irritation makes more oil and sebum production leading to a better habitat for more mites.
The article also mentions " Dissecting folliculitis"  basically where the hair just falls out from something like a bacterial infection.

     "due to low sebum production, infants and children lack significant Demodex colonization ....The number of Demodex mites present in the lesion increases with age.The prevalence of infestation with Demodex mites is highest in the 20-30 years age group, when the sebum secretion rate is at its highest. Older people are also more likely to carry the mites.  "
   They say that children carry very few mites, and the number incenses as sebum secretion is at it's peak in the 20-30 years age group. I think  they say older people usually have the mites, but not as many as the 20-30 year olds, as sebum production is reduced in older people.
   Wow this sure sounds like the cycle of mid 20's fast shed balding that I have been talking about .  Then my hairloss in my 35-45 years was much slower with very few times that I noticed hair loss on a daily basis.
  I still wonder if a strong massage flushes out and crushes a % of these mites.  Or if physically flushing  the scalp of excess sebum can reduce their numbers.  To really get rid of them is a major lifestyle commitment. To manage them seems reasonable, they do not seem to make women lose most of their hair.  I wonder if the MPB is DHT related to make guys produce too much/more sebum, and the mites follow.  
  It seems that DHT is either the cause of more sebum, or the increased sebum stimulates DHT reactions,  but it seems that men generally produce more sebum and it is hormonally controlled.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dht+sebum+production&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
  The other factor that was also mentioned in the article was the response of the immune system. This is the reaction of the body to the mites, bacteria, human dead cells, etc.  Basically, some of the answer to the fibrosis and selective hairloss may reside in how the body treats invaders that try to enter the scalp bloodstream so close to the brain. The article says that it is the immune system (t-cells) that deposit the fibrosis, this is like building a scar or isolation tumor to seal off the hair follicle to prevent the constant invasion of parasites and bacteria.
 The article is long and scientific,  but sure was valuable to my understanding.
 

Interesting what you say about the oils, I use Sage's topical which probably does at the very least something.

About DT, I think I'm going to see how it works if I decrease the time to 10 minutes 3 times a day.

Hi, I edited in more about the oils into my last post. My new measure of an effective massage is to see the blood vessels bulge. This only takes about 5 minutes with the pressure I use. I am still thinking that I may be dealing with a fibrotic scarred tissue, so may continue with the long hard massages in the areas that are not as flexible to the pinch. I do not even have redness, so I think I am in safe limits and am only seeing positive results so far.

cdto2012 wrote:Hi,  I edited in more about the oils into my last post.  My new measure of an effective massage is to see the blood vessels bulge. This only takes about 5 minutes with the pressure I use.  I am still thinking that I may be dealing with a fibrotic scarred tissue, so may continue with the long hard massages in the areas that are not as flexible to the pinch. I do not even have redness, so I think I am in safe limits and am only seeing positive results so far.

Yeah, it seems my problem areas are mostly nice and loose now and the rest of my scalp is definitely not as loose

EDIT:  It seems that most of the people who have the best results with this (including JD Moyer) spend the minimum amount of time on it, I'm going to have to try that.  Stretch and pull, pinch, knead, I wish Choy would elaborate on this! I find that two hands give a much better stretch to the skin than one hand with a few fingers.

TNT wrote:i was on DT for almost six months and my hair was getting thicker, but when i shave my head i saw two huge wrinkles and it was awful. I was scared and i stopped DT. Does anyone else has notice that?

you mean thos dark lines ..it will disappear in a few days if you stoped DT ..it is not scary at all.
but if you ment excessive skin then this thing i don't know about and it did'nt happened to me.

By the way, I'd like to add that since I consciously worked on completely relaxing my frontalis and occipital muscles and my whole face in general is when I had the fastest gains in scalp laxity. I used to have my eyebrows completely tensed due to stress/social anxiety, thinking it made me look happy, when in reality it made me look really surprised all the time.

TNT wrote:i was on DT for almost six months and my hair was getting thicker, but when i shave my head i saw two huge wrinkles and it was awful. I was scared and i stopped DT. Does anyone else has notice that?

... Uhg, has anyone noticed these wrinkles besides TNT?

TNT, are you sure they were wrinkles?

Yes, it should be wrinkles because i have stopped Detu 3-4 months ago and they just have fade but not disappear

TNT, please check your PMs. Thanks!

I can only guess that the pinching of the skin was done in a pattern that repeatedly made a crease that lasted.  Naturally pinching should be done in a mixed directional pattern. Vitamin C and other nutrients keep the skin elastic and capillaries strong to prevent bruising when massaging. If the DT ultimately worked maybe no need to shave and just cover the wrinkles.
       I remember reading a little about enzyme therapy being part of the mites awareness lady's treatment.  One of her websites was down, but I went on and continued some research I had some knowledge about.  Basically if the mites are under control, blood flow is being restored with massage, and the skin seems healthier; dealing with the fibroid damage seems a logical step. This is an effort to not only intensely remove any dead skin layer, but with enzymes also melt away fibroid scar tissue.
      There are ways to find products or just use green papayas and pineapples for enzyme therapy. For me I live in Asia and I basically know what I need to do the job.  Yes straight meat tenderizer.  I picked up some "Master Foods" brand. Ingredients salt , rice flour, bromelain, papain (contains lactose) .  From my research this is an acceptable mix and I am not aware that I have latex or other allergies to the ingredients.  I will post some links below about this for those interested. I am doing a small test on my arm, then will mix up some tenderizer with honey and let it sit for the first treatment. It can be powerful dissolving compound so take it seriously, I am sure it could damage your skin if left on too long or used too often.
      I am sure there are other hair forums with enzyme therapy, nothing new. It is used for acne, scar reduction, and other common uses like bee stings.  I guess the golden level is to mix it with urea, haven't gotten that far yet. Anyhow if anybody wants to add some cautionary tales or advice feel free.  
https://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAddiction/comments/3bwsy1/so_i_put_meat_tenderizer_on_my_face/

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/03/papaya-extract.html

http://naturalbeautytips.co/is-papaya-good-for-skin/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18496083  
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/btri/2012/976203/
https://modestyplusglamour.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/pineapple-for-acne-scars/

Oh by the way cdto, can I ask what your DT technique would be if you were just using your hands and not the pill bottles?  Wierd question I know

I just noticed that I have sooooo much dead skin on my temples, which was hidden since after I wash it looks totally clean, but then if I even just very gently rub it or just move it, it gets all flaky.

Hi JohnDoe I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E . These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body. Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.
As for the vitamin bottle, it can be used for gentle massages too, it is just a way to save your fingers from stress. Rolling the side of the bottle on the scalp is quite soothing. Without the bottle it is just circles that move the skin and pinching in different directions. With the bottle I can get stronger pressures to quickly get the veins to visibly protrude and press out any sebum efficiently.
I did a one hour enzyme scrub/ meat tenderizer session. It certainly leaves the scalp with a new definition of clean and smooth. It just feels a bit like having sun on the skin, but that is mostly from be scrubbing and the salt. I am going to do it longer today, it seemed like a harmless low impact first try. Imagine if it really could dissolve the crust, dead cells, and scar tissue that is in the way of faster growth.

cdto2012 wrote:Hi JohnDoe     I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E .  These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body.  Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.
   As for the vitamin bottle, it can be used for gentle massages too,  it is just a way to save your fingers from stress. Rolling the side of the bottle on the scalp is quite soothing.  Without the bottle it is just circles that move the skin and pinching in different directions.  With the bottle I can get stronger pressures to quickly get the veins to visibly protrude and press out any sebum efficiently.
 I did a one hour enzyme scrub/ meat tenderizer session.  It certainly leaves the scalp with a new definition of clean and smooth.  It just feels a bit like having sun on the skin, but that is mostly from be scrubbing and the salt.  I am going to do it longer today,  it seemed like a harmless low impact first try.  Imagine if it really could dissolve the crust, dead cells, and scar tissue that is in the way of faster growth.

Ok, thanks.  That's my idea, knead in two separate circular motions with a lot of downward pressure at the same time to promote circulation, get your head nice and warm, then do the two handed pinch (knead?) all over.

Sometimes I pinch my temples really good with my fingernails.

I mean, as long as the scalp is nice and loose (the WHOLE scalp), it's only a matter of time until stabilization comes, right?

cdto2012 wrote:Hi JohnDoe     I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E .  These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body.  Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.  

johndoe1225 wrote: 
I mean, as long as the scalp is nice and loose (the WHOLE scalp), it's only a matter of time until stabilization comes, right?

 I have the area near my crown that has remained loose and flexible even before DT.  Unfortunately it is also 80% bald too. I think I would go for some  dietary balancing for the dry skin,  it seems like an obvious flag to pursue. Massage is not known to cure dry skin, and it will only benefit your eyes, hormones,  and entire body to make sure your diet is well researched. The liver converts the HGH and other hormones, it relies heavily on essential and omega 3 oils.  In all my hairloss days, the only times I had any dandruff or dry scalp is when I was coming off minox.
http://www.apteraromatherapy.com/articles1.html
 On the very exciting side I can see more of my tiny hairs actually thickening enough to grow past the peach fuzz length ! I am not paying attention to the receding border area, it is hard to keep track of what is coming and going there. I can see almost 2 inches away from my receding line, over the blood vessels on both sides shooting hairs out. If they keep up I will probably take some pictures and then shave them because they are kind of in the middle of my temples and out of place. I mentioned these before, but there is a real wow moment when they go for lift off and just keep growing day by day.
  Oh did 3 hours with full strength scrub and meat tenderizer on the scalp today. Honestly it is a pretty gentle treatment if the scalp is healthy already. I did not notice excessive redness or stinging. If it did just kill dead cells it did it gently.  Four hours is what the instructions say to tenderize a steak,  so it seems a safe enough treatment.

cdto2012 wrote:

cdto2012 wrote:Hi JohnDoe     I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E .  These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body.  Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.  

johndoe1225 wrote: 
I mean, as long as the scalp is nice and loose (the WHOLE scalp), it's only a matter of time until stabilization comes, right?

 I have the area near my crown that has remained loose and flexible even before DT.  Unfortunately it is also 80% bald too. I think I would go for some  dietary balancing for the dry skin,  it seems like an obvious flag to pursue. Massage is not known to cure dry skin, and it will only benefit your eyes, hormones,  and entire body to make sure your diet is well researched. The liver converts the HGH and other hormones, it relies heavily on essential and omega 3 oils.  In all my hairloss days, the only times I had any dandruff or dry scalp is when I was coming off minox.
http://www.apteraromatherapy.com/articles1.html
 On the very exciting side I can see more of my tiny hairs actually thickening enough to grow past the peach fuzz length ! I am not paying attention to the receding border area, it is hard to keep track of what is coming and going there. I can see almost 2 inches away from my receding line, over the blood vessels on both sides shooting hairs out. If they keep up I will probably take some pictures and then shave them because they are kind of in the middle of my temples and out of place. I mentioned these before, but there is a real wow moment when they go for lift off and just keep growing day by day.
 Oh did 3 hours with full strength scrub and meat tenderizer on the scalp today. Honestly it is a pretty gentle treatment if the scalp is healthy already. I did not notice excessive redness or stinging. If it did just kill dead cells it did it gently.  Four hours is what the instructions say to tenderize a steak,  so it seems a safe enough treatment.

Great to hear about the progress!

My scalp is rapidly getting easier to make flexible at every DT session, I think in part due to me relaxing my face throughout the day.

The main ridge on my scalp may be getting a bit smaller, but I'll have to examine it more before I decide.  Either way I'll focus the hardest pinching/stretching/pressing on that area.

I also got some die-off symptoms from increasing my coconut oil intake yesterday, I'll see how that goes, maybe it's Candida.

I'm paranoid about silly things like getting my scalp too loose causing massive forehead wrinkles, I wish I could stop thinking about things like that

I suppose it has been around 13 days now since I started the heavy pressure massage and other things (no minox or fin).  Many people are always asking/ complaining that nobody is positing hairs transforming before their eyes photos. I will post these because they are a good area to monitor. They are new growth in an area that has been bald for years on both sides.  There is no need to sort through receding hairline figuring out if the hair is new or dying out. All of this growth is only from the since I started DT recently.  I drew a few red lines to point out the area that is showing the few hairs that have thickened and have grown far beyond what they were a few weeks ago, and beyond the normal vellus hair size.  You can see many other hairs getting ready to follow in the photos, but they are just beginning to show the distinguishing length, of course all of the hairs are light colored, or silver at this early time and thickest following the blood vessels that protrude when massaged.

  I will try to figure out the photo posting, as I would like you to be able to download them with a right click " download image as" , if you want to magnify them . Will see how this works .
 hosted picture links
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151110.jpg

https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151111.jpg

cdto2012 wrote:I suppose it has been around 13 days now since I started the heavy pressure massage and other things (no minox or fin).  Many people are always asking/ complaining that nobody is positing hairs transforming before their eyes photos. I will post these because they are a good area to monitor. They are new growth in an area that has been bald for years on both sides.  There is no need to sort through receding hairline figuring out if the hair is new or dying out. All of this growth is only from the since I started DT recently.  I drew a few red lines to point out the area that is showing the few hairs that have thickened and have grown far beyond what they were a few weeks ago, and beyond the normal vellus hair size.  You can see many other hairs getting ready to follow in the photos, but they are just beginning to show the distinguishing length, of course all of the hairs are light colored, or silver at this early time and thickest following the blood vessels that protrude when massaged.

  I will try to figure out the photo posting, as I would like you to be able to download them with a right click " download image as" , if you want to magnify them . Will see how this works .
 hosted picture links
https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151110.jpg

https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151111.jpg

Interesting, those should be a good reference because you can easily see the length since they are mostly all trimmed

So the heavy pressure seems to be working then?  That makes me feel a little more at ease, because I'm sure you get much more force with an object than I apply with my fingers.

It's just that the darn hairs seem to still be miniaturizing...It's still early though at barely 3.5 months.  Maybe I should return to the forceful deep downward pressure?

Also I was wondering, perhaps DT therapy combined with Tom Hagerty's or the extreme version of Tom Hagerty's exercises would be an even more powerful way to go?  My only concern is that with Tom's exercises, the scalp is pulled really tight over the skull, if this balances with the increased blood flow to the galea because of the muscle contractions I don't know.  Also the amount of time one should spend on the exercises total, and the amount of time one should contract the frontalis as opposed to the occipital muscle.

I'm really conflicted between relaxing my whole face/scalp/head all the time and doing Tom's exercises. I reduced my time to around 5-10 minutes a day of Tom's exercises, but would definitely do more if it did some good. I used to do it for much longer, but that was before DT when my scalp was tight.

Do you guys think massaging your scalp randomly multiple times a day for a minute or so would do any good? Don't think I have the discipline to this 20 minutes twice a day

bayman wrote:Do you guys think massaging your scalp randomly multiple times a day for a minute or so would do any good? Don't think I have the discipline to this 20 minutes twice a day

Randomly? I suppose it's better than nothing but if you're going to do it at all you might as well do it right

bayman wrote:Do you guys think massaging your scalp randomly multiple times a day for a minute or so would do any good? Don't think I have the discipline to this 20 minutes twice a day

ok byman ...my advice is to download DT study ,read it carfully ,believe it ,and do it every day , keep coming here and we show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.