Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

sanderson Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:29 pm

Okay so I've been putting a lot of ACV topically into my hair the last few days. I notice today when I put it in, my hair all of a sudden my hair starts getting itchy (I assumed it was the ACV getting into my scalp), but when I run my hand through my wet hair, I see a few hairs in my hands. I can't tell if it's from my hair being wet and easier to fall out or it's from the ACV. If my hair is dry, I don't really get many hairs in my hands. I have only been doing this for about a week.

I tried the topical/shampoo, but found massive sheds in my hands from it.

This all started from me intially bumping up massive iodine amounts and now I'm shedding like nuts. Why would idodine cause this?

Or does anyone know why these topicals would cause the shedding also?

I'm thinking I may just goto coconut oil, emu oil, & castor oil and not dealing with ACV anymore. If I get itch and major shedding, this is bad right? I just read about someoen who had positive experience so I'm very confused ugh.

I also had a peroxynitrite inflammation bump on my scalp and applying the ACV made it go away and down completely.. so I don't understand why this is happening.

sanderson Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:00 pm

So I did a bunch of research into peroxynitrite. Found out a lot about getting NO downregulated in order to stop peroxynitrite. This is an interesting situation. If anyone has found this thread from doing a search and you have a peroxynitrite, check out this in depth analysis of this guy talking about how to down regulate it. It's extremely interesting. This guy is a PHD in biochmestry, but goes really in depth into it. I'm actually shocked at how much info he gives.

http://sprident.com/martin-pall/

Does anyone know if it's possible iodine can upregulate nitric oxide or the chance of peroxynitrite happening? I wonder if the combination of iodine + down regulating will solve problem of this peroxynitrite? So I can take more iodine without being worried about the peroxynitrite.

a<r Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:37 pm

If you're familiar with herxheimer reactions, this could be similar to that in a dermatological sense.

sanderson Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:39 pm

aIf you're familiar with herxheimer reactions, this could be similar to that in a dermatological sense.

That's one possibility I was thinking of. But I have read a few reports from people on here where they say they take ACV and the itch goes away right away. It just doesn't seem like something is right about it. But by posting this I was hoping someone may be able to chime in if they had this experience and it may be temperary. I just am at a point now where my temples are almost visible.. don't want to take risks. I think attacking this peroxynitrite is a key to it, but not sure with the topical ACV. The itch seemed to get better with coconut oil. I guess I'll stick with that until I hear smoething else...

Thanks for your post.

mistyisland Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:53 pm

I don't do well with ACV either. It seems to accelerate my hair loss. maybe it needs to be diluted, I don't know, but I stopped using it. You may be allergic to it. There were some instances on Curezone where people had reactions when taking it, but I believe they were taking it internally.

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=761929

sanderson Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:54 pm

mistyisland wrote:I don't do well with ACV either. It seems to accelerate my hair loss. maybe it needs to be diluted, I don't know, but I stopped using it. You may be allergic to it. There were some instances on Curezone where people had reactions when taking it, but I believe they were taking it internally.

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=761929

Yes, this could be completely possible. I know I have extreme sensitivities to certain things and I know when I first started taking it, my face was turning red a little bit. I thought it was the herimerixer reaction as described above. I think I'll stay away... very interesting though, thanks for your post.

What do you do well with topically since maybe we have something similar going on?

sanderson Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:33 pm

Interesting study about topical iodine being used to see how it effects nitric oxide. I'm assuming based on this study that if my hair loss is from peroxynitrite from nitric oxide.. topical iodine would be an effective way to help it. Although it doesn't really make sense why taking iodine internally will increase the peroxynitrite in my head... must keep looking..

In a previous study we demonstrated the protective effect of topical iodine as postexposure treatment for sulfur mustard (SM) application. The iodine treatment results in significantly reduced inflammation and necrosis and increased epidermal hyperplasia. The expression and localization of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) and cyclooxygenase 2 (COX-2) in paraffin-embedded skin samples from that study were evaluated in the present investigation. We compared the immunoreactivity of iNOS and COX-2 using five samples from each of the following four test sites: untreated control sites, SM-exposed sites, sites treated with iodine mixture 15 min after SM exposure, and sites treated with iodine 30 min after SM exposure. All animals were killed 2 days after irritant exposure. iNOS immunoreactivity was present only in skin sites exposed to SM without iodine treatment. The ulcerated skin was covered with a relatively thick band of exudate composed of iNOS-immunostained polymorphonuclear cells and macrophages. In untreated skin, COX-2 immunostaining was limited to the thin suprabasal epidermal layer. In SM-exposed skin, induction of COX-2 was noted in inflammatory cells located close to the site of epidermal injury. In skin sites treated with iodine 15 or 30 min after SM exposure, the regenerating hyperplastic epithelium showed moderate cytoplasmic staining localized to the epithelium overlying the basal layer. This pattern of staining was also present in the nearby dermal fibroblasts. Thus, in contrast to the skin samples exposed to SM without iodine treatment, the epidermal layer expressing immunohistochemical positivity for COX-2 was thicker and corresponded to the epidermal hyperplasia noted in samples treated with iodine. It is well documented that prostaglandins (PGs) promote epidermal proliferation, thereby contributing to the repair of injured skin. That the induction of the COX-2 shown in our study may also play a role in the healing process is indicated by the present evidence. The results suggest that nitric oxide radicals (NO*) are involved in mediating the damage induced by the SM and that iodine-related reduction in acute epidermal inflammation is associated with reduced iNOS expression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11305779

edit just put iosol iodine drops on my head random drops on my scalp.. umm the itch stopped a lot, but i seem to get itching a little on the back of my head now.. wtf.. i really wonder if i have some peroxynitrite just attacking my whole scalp or something? does anyone know if i can put this on my head every day? i read one of jdp's old posts and he said 1x a week should be fine, but i'm afriad my peroxynitrite will continue to act up. i should probaly buy lugols also

btw, i know ecklonia cava helps with this and i'm taking it everyday

nidhogge Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:55 pm

Hey sanderson,

I second a>r. Sheds aren't a true indicator of whether something is working for you or not. However, if you consume a particular food such as (in my case) dairy, I'll get a real tingly feeling on my scalp that (I've learned from unfortunate personal experience) usually is followed up with some hair loss.

As far as iodine supplementation...I'm not as keen about it as I used to be. I think that supplementing iodine is incredibly important, but not from inorganic sources (synthetically produced iodine). Due to our geneological backgrounds, it is possible that certain ethnicities and races respond better to higher levels of iodine than others.

In your shoes, I'd drop all external treatments aside from shampoo, and see how your hair responds. If the shedding persists, it's clear that it's an internal issue. If it's reduced, then slowly add things back into your regimen (one or two things every few months). Throwing the whole kitchen sink at it will do more harm than good!

sanderson Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:15 am

nidhogge wrote:Hey sanderson,

I second a>r. Sheds aren't a true indicator of whether something is working for you or not. However, if you consume a particular food such as (in my case) dairy, I'll get a real tingly feeling on my scalp that (I've learned from unfortunate personal experience) usually is followed up with some hair loss.

As far as iodine supplementation...I'm not as keen about it as I used to be. I think that supplementing iodine is incredibly important, but not from inorganic sources (synthetically produced iodine). Due to our geneological backgrounds, it is possible that certain ethnicities and races respond better to higher levels of iodine than others.

In your shoes, I'd drop all external treatments aside from shampoo, and see how your hair responds. If the shedding persists, it's clear that it's an internal issue. If it's reduced, then slowly add things back into your regimen (one or two things every few months). Throwing the whole kitchen sink at it will do more harm than good!

hey man, thanks for your post. yeah i know without a doubt i have an internal problem. my use of topicals actually is preparing myself for a big hair loss shed that i know is coming with more iodine use. although i will try a different brand, a better brand per your recommendation, thank u for that suggestion. i'm trying to prep myself ahead of time for it. yes.. i really do wish it was a herixmer reaction or if i could tell some way.. its just my temples are nearly visible at this point... ugh.

mistyisland Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:31 am

sanderson wrote:
mistyisland wrote:I don't do well with ACV either. It seems to accelerate my hair loss. maybe it needs to be diluted, I don't know, but I stopped using it. You may be allergic to it. There were some instances on Curezone where people had reactions when taking it, but I believe they were taking it internally.

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=761929

Yes, this could be completely possible. I know I have extreme sensitivities to certain things and I know when I first started taking it, my face was turning red a little bit. I thought it was the herimerixer reaction as described above. I think I'll stay away... very interesting though, thanks for your post.

What do you do well with topically since maybe we have something similar going on?

Sometimes I use different oils. I've used coconut oil, seabuckthorn oil, black cumin seed oil, or black castor oil. I just ordered some mink oil. I usually don't do oils more than twice a week, since I have long hair and oils are messy. There is one treatment that involves iodine and black castor oil alternately for a week. I did that once. Since i am so hit and miss with the topicals, I'm not sure they are doing much good. I'm going to try and be more consistent with the mink oil. So far the one that is the most soothing is coconut oil.

Edit: Should have mentioned that the castor oil is a copy of something called "Hairdrenalin." It has cayenne, garlic, onion, biotin, and some other stuff. I got it here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jamaican-Black-Castor-Oil-1-oz-2-oz-4-oz-8-oz-Hair-Growth-Hairdrenalin-Potion-/300712616909?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item4603de63cd#ht_3976wt_1025

It's darn thick stuff. I cut it with food grade iodine.

Paradox Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:01 am

I don't think it is a stretch to observe that when you put acid on your head it itches. Acids can dry the skin and cause itching. Just because someone else used it and it behaved differently than it does when you use it does not mean that someone is wrong. It means that agents act differently with different people. If coconut oil gets rid of itching I would personally stick with that and not worry about what you hear, but rather go by what you experience.

Keep in mind that itching and shedding are symptoms of hair loss which I'm assuming you had to begin with. To conclude that an agent is causing a symptom that was already present before the agent was introduced is illogical. It may be perpetuating a symptom and in that case you might chose to discontinue it or change the concentration, duration, or frequency. ACV is going to strip oil and lead to drying whereas coconut oil is going to lubricate and decrease drying. They are behaving differently. Excessive itching and shedding are not signs of healthy skin/scalp.

AS54 Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:31 am

Interesting info. Anecdotally, my hair loss began when I was taking a supplement that was meant to raise NO, for athletic reasons. I had extremely thick hair but at about 16 I started taking this supplement (probably not a good time in my development) and it began thinning at a rapid pace. Luckily I had enough total hair that it wasn't a huge problem for me in high school. But it became more of a problem in college.

Another observation with iodine. I first began applying Iosol about two months ago. At first I noticed that for about two weeks my hair looked worse. I can't believe that any drastic change to the hair itself could have occurred in that time period. But since then my hair has looked better than it has in a long time, continuing to use iodine, and the persistent inflammation that used to be hasn't been a problem in a long time, even on days that I don't apply anything. I've also been trying to fight stress, fairly successfully, and I believe this has had a big impact. I always notice my face and scalp skin would immediately become flushed and hot when I became stressed. Phosphatidyl serine has been huge as has ashwaghanda.

AS54 Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:50 am

sanderson wrote:So I did a bunch of research into peroxynitrite. Found out a lot about getting NO downregulated in order to stop peroxynitrite. This is an interesting situation. If anyone has found this thread from doing a search and you have a peroxynitrite, check out this in depth analysis of this guy talking about how to down regulate it. It's extremely interesting. This guy is a PHD in biochmestry, but goes really in depth into it. I'm actually shocked at how much info he gives.

http://sprident.com/martin-pall/

Does anyone know if it's possible iodine can upregulate nitric oxide or the chance of peroxynitrite happening? I wonder if the combination of iodine + down regulating will solve problem of this peroxynitrite? So I can take more iodine without being worried about the peroxynitrite.

Excellent find, Sanderson. Thanks for this. I believe this NO/ONSS cycle also helps to explain multiple chemical sensitivity as well, something I have a problem with.

sanderson Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:36 am

mistyisland wrote:
sanderson wrote:
mistyisland wrote:I don't do well with ACV either. It seems to accelerate my hair loss. maybe it needs to be diluted, I don't know, but I stopped using it. You may be allergic to it. There were some instances on Curezone where people had reactions when taking it, but I believe they were taking it internally.

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=761929

Yes, this could be completely possible. I know I have extreme sensitivities to certain things and I know when I first started taking it, my face was turning red a little bit. I thought it was the herimerixer reaction as described above. I think I'll stay away... very interesting though, thanks for your post.

What do you do well with topically since maybe we have something similar going on?

Edit: Should have mentioned that the castor oil is a copy of something called "Hairdrenalin." It has cayenne, garlic, onion, biotin, and some other stuff. I got it here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jamaican-Black-Castor-Oil-1-oz-2-oz-4-oz-8-oz-Hair-Growth-Hairdrenalin-Potion-/300712616909?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item4603de63cd#ht_3976wt_1025

It's darn thick stuff. I cut it with food grade iodine.

Wow, that stuff looks great. I have a question for you though about cayenne pepper. I put cayenne pepper on my hair only to have it burning my scalp and I read online it is "stimulating blood flow" which is the same thing I see written on this website. Do you think this is true?

sanderson Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:37 am

Paradox wrote:I don't think it is a stretch to observe that when you put acid on your head it itches. Acids can dry the skin and cause itching. Just because someone else used it and it behaved differently than it does when you use it does not mean that someone is wrong. It means that agents act differently with different people. If coconut oil gets rid of itching I would personally stick with that and not worry about what you hear, but rather go by what you experience.

Keep in mind that itching and shedding are symptoms of hair loss which I'm assuming you had to begin with. To conclude that an agent is causing a symptom that was already present before the agent was introduced is illogical. It may be perpetuating a symptom and in that case you might chose to discontinue it or change the concentration, duration, or frequency. ACV is going to strip oil and lead to drying whereas coconut oil is going to lubricate and decrease drying. They are behaving differently. Excessive itching and shedding are not signs of healthy skin/scalp.

Thanks for your viewpoint Paradox. This is exactly how I felt when putting it on, like how could it be good if it is causing the same problem? I'm going to stay away from ACV from now on.. too bad it didn't work, was hoping for a miracle topical lol! But I'm on my way to finding stuff that works.. the coconut oil, getting emu + castor as well, plus my newly discovered topical idine should hopefully poitn me in the right direction.

sanderson Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:42 am

anthonyspencer54 wrote:
sanderson wrote:So I did a bunch of research into peroxynitrite. Found out a lot about getting NO downregulated in order to stop peroxynitrite. This is an interesting situation. If anyone has found this thread from doing a search and you have a peroxynitrite, check out this in depth analysis of this guy talking about how to down regulate it. It's extremely interesting. This guy is a PHD in biochmestry, but goes really in depth into it. I'm actually shocked at how much info he gives.

http://sprident.com/martin-pall/

Does anyone know if it's possible iodine can upregulate nitric oxide or the chance of peroxynitrite happening? I wonder if the combination of iodine + down regulating will solve problem of this peroxynitrite? So I can take more iodine without being worried about the peroxynitrite.

Excellent find, Sanderson. Thanks for this. I believe this NO/ONSS cycle also helps to explain multiple chemical sensitivity as well, something I have a problem with.

No problem man. Glad someone found something useful I posted, I feel like I'm always sucking value from this place and asking questions lol.

I read your post above also, that's very interesting about the nitric oxide. I am pretty sure this is *exactly* what's going on with me sicne I have purposely tried to increase nitric oxide in the past potently and found my hair loss to happen in these times only. I have somehow turned it on more permanently through iodine use, which is actually a good thing in my case (dealing with fin problems) (NO is responsible for making the male sex organs work, its what viagra does).

Have you used internal iodine and found your hair loss to accelerate at all before you did topical? The topical worked for me also.. but internal I have seen it increase. Maybe it's my system adjusting to how it should be... Do you just drop a few drops of iosol on your head or do you mix it with anything else? Like water or something.

btw, here's another site he has that seems to be the same info, maybe a little easier to look at, havent looked at it much more in depth, but I'm pretty sure it's his most recent site since I actually called the phone number on both sites and he actually answered from this website... other one it was the wrong number lol.
http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/index.html

a<r Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:15 am

Sanderson, yeah, typically you'll see your metabolism and thyroid activity rise above the comfort zone, causing some exaggeration of certain symptoms, then things will level out with iodine supplementation.

sanderson Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:03 pm

aSanderson, yeah, typically you'll see your metabolism and thyroid activity rise above the comfort zone, causing some exaggeration of certain symptoms, then things will level out with iodine supplementation.

Thank you a

Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

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Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

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Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?

Re: Topical ACV/IH Shampoo/Topical All Cause Shedding/Itchy. Why?