Re: The Fallacy Of Blood Flow As A Non Factor In Balding.... And What To Do About it...

AL123 Mon May 21, 2012 6:44 pm

LawOfThelema wrote:So it's not that the transplanted follicles don't for their entirety have adequate circulation and supporting adipose tissue but that the follicles themselves are causing a rejuvinination in this locally to support the follicle itself? Am I grasping this correctly?

i'm not sure about your understanding but from what it seems, the donor hair follicle comes with a layer of adipose tissue, which assists with the formation of new blood vessels when transplanted to the target area. therefore, save the adipose tissue, save the capillary network, keep the follicle alive and kicking.

Delphine Tue May 22, 2012 3:23 pm

Elton John is certainly an example of a successful hair transplant. Rumor has it Matthew McConaughey went down that road also.
http://www.tmz.com/2007/03/24/matthew-mcconaughey-fake-or-real/

Of course it helps that they both have big, big bucks!

elan164 Wed May 23, 2012 2:37 pm

Ive posted this already but had no replies.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=71768

LawOfThelema Wed May 23, 2012 3:29 pm

lol I was going to post the same thing about the cryo earlier, but just didnt get around to it. Looks like something we should study closely.

hellwig Wed May 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Curcumin, Resveratorl (decreases angiognesis) and grape seed extracts and all the other crap especially green tea all hurt http://greentealovers.com/greenteahealt ... genesis%22

all hurt angiogenesis and really are a waste of time! and money! Think about it.. .it has been decades since people have been taking all this nonsense yet I have yet to see after sooo many years one real set of pictures before and after.... wich photos taken every few weeks not just one photoshopped lame picture... i have yet to see a single time that any of this crap grew hair!!????

This.

LawOfThelema Wed May 23, 2012 5:33 pm

hellwig wrote:
Curcumin, Resveratorl (decreases angiognesis) and grape seed extracts and all the other crap especially green tea all hurt

all hurt angiogenesis and really are a waste of time! and money! Think about it.. .it has been decades since people have been taking all this nonsense yet I have yet to see after sooo many years one real set of pictures before and after.... wich photos taken every few weeks not just one photoshopped lame picture... i have yet to see a single time that any of this crap grew hair!!????

This.

Hurts angiogenesis but not necessarily bad overall. Their benefits might outweigh the angio. GTE has shown benefits topically for example. I dont think its been DECADES. Maybe a decade at the max. The whole photo thing is moot. People dont sit around taking pic of themselves. Outisde of clinical trials people just dont do photos. They just try stuff and eyeball it as to if it works. And those who truly succeed probably just abandon the forums anyhow. Ive seen numerous testimonials about GTE on hairloss sites, and even on blogs which arent soley devoted to hair. Those things are also in numerous natural formulations, and each one has a study or so which shows some effectiveness. What has been out for decades is the theory that baldness is due in large part to circulation, and people have been working that aspect for a long time and yet no one has come up with a cureall based on that theory either.

I would like to see someone try some kind of threefold attack on the circulation issue.

Needling to increase the thickness of the scalp, support the growth of collagen, and increase the cell proliferation and to speed the absorption of topicals.

Lasering to boost the bioenergetics of the cells and to increase bloodflow.

Cryotherapy as nuclear blast to kick start angiogenesis.

Guest Wed May 23, 2012 5:44 pm

elan164 wrote:Ive posted this already but had no replies.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=71768

I notice that the above post it's from February. Are you still trying cryotherapy?
If you do so, it's almost three months since February.
Any regrowth?

elan164 Thu May 24, 2012 5:49 am

Steve_Gr wrote:
I notice that the above post it's from February. Are you still trying cryotherapy?
If you do so, it's almost three months since February.
Any regrowth?

Someone other than myself tried it, i was just sharing the link. Ive tried contacting him but no response.

a<r Thu May 24, 2012 6:11 am

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t4433-fundementals-of-regeneration-challenge-to-omg-nid-jdp-might-interest-you?highlight=regeneration

I looked into the wounding aspect in regeneration a while back, and I'm still researching it, the mechanism involved is actually amazing and I have outlined a bunch of possible ways to bolster the results. I'm going to bump it for the users who haven't seen it.

elan164 Wed May 30, 2012 6:01 am

http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/discus/messages/7/2374.html?1125601035

here_comes_the_sun Wed May 30, 2012 11:34 am

circulation theory has been debunked in 1963.... why are you people so behind?

BTT/showpost.php?p=65847&postcount=136

theseeker86 Wed May 30, 2012 12:58 pm

Link doesn't work.

here_comes_the_sun Wed May 30, 2012 2:48 pm

theseeker86 wrote:Link doesn't work.

lool that because you have to replace BTT with BaldTruthTalk dot com

theseeker86 Wed May 30, 2012 3:18 pm

Why don't you just post the full article here? I thought you would enjoy just slamming it down into this thread for everyone to see.

Columbo Wed May 30, 2012 8:08 pm

here_comes_the_sun wrote:
theseeker86 wrote:Link doesn't work.

lool that because you have to replace BTT with BaldTruthTalk dot com

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=65847&postcount=136

During the past few decades, several hypotheses concerning the etiology of male pattern baldness (MPB) have been presented. In 1933, Wadel reported findings of decreased motility of the scalp. He was convinced that this decrease was due to the fact that in MPB patients the scalp is both frontally and sagittally too short, and thus it has to be stretched like a too-small cap to cover the relatively too-big skull. For hair nutrition and rooting this persisting tension creates unbearable conditions, leading to gradual loss of hair. In 1935 he wrote that MPB is the end result of the tension atrophy of the scalp covering the galea aponeurotica. This atrophy is caused by a disproportion between the skull bone and the galea aponeurotica, due to an isolated growth of the skull bone to which the tendon-like structure of the galea is not able to adapt. He reported excellent results in the treatment of MPB with 'loosening' massage to the scalp.

"In 1941, Kessler started experimental work with frontal galeotomies in order to reduce the supposed increased tension of the galea aponeurotica. In 1961 he reported a success rate of 87% with this treatment of MPB. At that time this operation was popular in Europe. In 1963, Ponten reported that after frontal galeotomy he could not find any objective improvement in his 56 patients and he still holds this view concerning this operation (personal communication, 1976).

"The present author has seen several patients who have undergone frontal galeotomy and later developed an advanced degree of MPB. The popularity of this operation has waned."

"In the receding hairline and in the graft taken from it the loss of hairs remains synchronous even though the latter is transplanted to a remote skin area. In MPB the 'balding clock' in the follicle or in its very close surrounding keeps time even when the follicle is transplanted to the skin of the forearm. The presence or absence of the galea aponeurotica does not influence the balding process in MPB. Nor does the supposed increased tension of the scalp or its muscles or a diminished vascular supply to the scalp have an effect on balding. Neither do any other factors localized to the head cause balding. The cause seems to lie in the follicle itself or its very close surrounding. The graft taken from the denuded area did not grow new hairs, and so the MPB process of the hair follicle is not reversed by a change in its location on the human body.

Does a galeatomy improve blood supply to follicles then? How did they measure/ascertain that?

SlowMoe Wed May 30, 2012 11:33 pm

First off, you sound almost like a drug company rep.

Second, it appears that the first surgeon had an 87% success rate..? Then the second wasn't having success...? And why do all of these studies focus in implanting hair on the forearm, why do they not have a study where the scalp is massaged and circulation enhanced there? Also, it's funny how ginkgo, minoxidil, and all these other circulation boosting substances that were once found to grow hair by increasing blood flow, all of a sudden are magically found to work in other ways.... Mighty strange.

I'm not sure about this case, but I know for a FACT that there have been false studies performed fire the sole purpose of debunking proven cures, only for the benefit of a drug company or another greedy empire.

There are HUNDREDS of websites out there that talk about how circulation is vital to hair. Stuck around this forum, and follow the papillapower and Maliniak method users and you will see that they are having success with circulation exercises.

Now I'm kinda on the fence about whether or not MPBs' main cause is thyroid related, but I can tell you that if you increase the circulation to your scalp you will reverse hair loss. I'm talking about daily brushing, massaging, towelling, laser helmet, whatever.... You WILL reverse hairloss. I have done it, as well as tons of others.

Here you can see results from laser therapy, which increases circulation.
http://www.haarbehoud.nl/en/oaze-laser-helmet-low-level-laser

theseeker86 Thu May 31, 2012 2:44 pm

im_back_again_bitches wrote:
This forum is actually a scam.

Some proof would be nice.

LawOfThelema Thu May 31, 2012 3:38 pm

SlowMoe wrote:First off, you sound almost like a drug company rep.

Second, it appears that the first surgeon had an 87% success rate..? Then the second wasn't having success...? And why do all of these studies focus in implanting hair on the forearm, why do they not have a study where the scalp is massaged and circulation enhanced there? Also, it's funny how ginkgo, minoxidil, and all these other circulation boosting substances that were once found to grow hair by increasing blood flow, all of a sudden are magically found to work in other ways.... Mighty strange.

Dont ginko and minox work to upregulate PGE2 which we know is a growth inducing factor in hair? Ok, nevermind, I guess you have a point. You are saying that perhaps most things which improve circulation are also correspondingly improving other growth regulating factors.

There are HUNDREDS of websites out there that talk about how circulation is vital to hair. Stuck around this forum, and follow the papillapower and Maliniak method users and you will see that they are having success with circulation exercises.

The frequency or propensity of an idea doesnt attest to its truth or correctness. Circulation is involved in some way but we dont know for sure the causal relationships. I think that circulation improvement can only help, but the question is how far does it go by itself.

Now I'm kinda on the fence about whether or not MPBs' main cause is thyroid related, but I can tell you that if you increase the circulation to your scalp you will reverse hair loss. I'm talking about daily brushing, massaging, towelling, laser helmet, whatever.... You WILL reverse hairloss. I have done it, as well as tons of others.

The main success I've read here from PP is that the guy went from norwood 2 to 4, and then grew a few new hairs which are of better quality. It remains to be seen if he can revert back to earlier norwoods. The very possibility of progressing 2 norwoods in a few months would turn most people away from a method like that. And we don't know for certain that he will be able to get it back. I will be following that one closely.

zeroes Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:50 am

here_comes_the_sun wrote:circulation theory has been debunked in 1963.... why are you people so behind?

BTT/showpost.php?p=65847&postcount=136

If hair transplant works why do people continue taking fin?

LawOfThelema Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:55 am

zeroes wrote:
here_comes_the_sun wrote:circulation theory has been debunked in 1963.... why are you people so behind?

BTT/showpost.php?p=65847&postcount=136

If hair transplant works why do people continue taking fin?

People who get hair transplants take finasteride to prevent the non-transplanted original hair in the transplant region from miniaturizing / thinning any further. Hair transplants work, but the issue is the one I just described. The donor hair will remain but the non donor hair is still victim to miniaturization.

987 Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:33 pm

Just to drop this real quick, well I dont put too much emphasis on circulation but something that I found easy to implement is
sleep inversion. I hear about head/hand stands and scalp message etc in assumption this will bring more blood flow to the scalp.
I do do handstands as a exercise based thing, but that wouldn't be time significant. So one day I was laying on my bed
and decided why not get some inversion while I'm sleeping for 6+ hours every night. So I put some bricks under the foot of my Bed
which put me at like a 5 deg angle were my feet are just above my head. Not enough to be too much inverted all night, but enough that I can definitely feel the difference when I sit up right. Has anyone else tried this? I have also once heard that David Wolfe guy talking about sleeping with the feet above the head, but I dont recall the points he made on it. Let me know what you guys think.

SlowMoe Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:04 pm

I think it a good idea if it doesn't mess up your sleep. I've heard that inversion tables improve thinking by like 15-20 per net, so I did a little experiment.
I play the game scramble with friends and usually un scramble like 30-40 words I 2 minutes. The very first time on the inversion table I unscrambled 51.
May have been placebo effect, but it was interesting.

hellwig Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:15 am

When I lie with my head hanging over the back of my bed, creating more bloodflow to the brain, I am able to make decisions and plans that I'd be pondering all day otherwise.

SlowMoe Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:41 am

I bet bats are some smart mother phuckers

987 Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:17 am

SlowMoe wrote:I think it a good idea if it doesn't mess up your sleep. I've heard that inversion tables improve thinking by like 15-20 per net, so I did a little experiment.
I play the game scramble with friends and usually un scramble like 30-40 words I 2 minutes. The very first time on the inversion table I unscrambled 51.
May have been placebo effect, but it was interesting.

Yea my sleep was fine, nothing changed with how i felt while laying down other than an obvious feeling of more blood rushing to my head, but not enough that it was uncomfortable...
Well anywho, if increasing blood flow to the scalp really gives results then I should know in a couple months doing this
since this will be an average of 8 hrs with my head slightly below my feet, longer than anyone would spend in a day doing messages, or SE, or headstands....

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