My Progress With THAT method - Update

I thought I would share the following with you - I'm no longer sure if this fits in with the forum or not - but if not feel free to remove.

For a little over six months now, I've been trying a particular method of hair regeneration. I found numerous hints to this method around the internet, and what I believe are mechanical variations of it tried by people like Dick Clark, Leon Maliniak, JFK, the hair loss reversible guy, Anthony Perklns, and Christopher Walken.

Essentially, I found a pattern of regrowth with many mechanical methods - where by I do believe some regrowth was achieved.

This led to me signing up to a one year Trial of a variant of this method under NDA. Many of you will know that those threads are now closed or remove, so I can't continue my updates there.

I believe in the method provided under the trial - and view at as the most effective method I have found to generate hair.

As such, I can't answer questions on the details of the method - and my previous posts provide all the theory and research I have developed on this method and how to improve it.

Beginning the trial, I had a rather large shed, pushing me from NW 3v to a NW 4v. Then, after around 3 months, I gained some rather noticeable new hairs. Only a few, but enough to stand out.

Cosmetically, this was not enough to make any difference.

Over the past few weeks, I've noticed 20 or so new hairs on my current hairline, all stronger and thicker than my current hair.

During this week, the central island has had a massive shed - to the point where I could see it disappearing in a few months at this rate. Ironically, my temples have many more random hairs now - to the point where - I could say there is no more than one inch between each hair.

To put simply - the hair on my temples seems to be a fuzzy mess of regrowth - and the hairs are of much better quality. The 'island' has become far weaker and shed a lot, although there is new growth, at least at the front.

I should point out - the hair on my temple area - is nothing near enough for any cosmetic improvement - but it is far more than I have had for almost 10 years.

At the current rate of growth, I would think it would take 5-7 years to have a NW2 - if things progress at their current rate. However, I am hoping that that growth rates will increase geometrically rather than in a linear fashion.

That's all I have for now - if someone wants to remove or delete this - feel free to.

I am considering incorporating hand stands and a cardiovascular supplement program in three months, if I am still getting growth - to accelerate recovery.

what's with this site lately and all the unorthodox methods that are so hush hush? lame

gpb, thanks for the update. Thoughtful, considered posts like yours and duel_black's are what got me to try the manual methods in the first place. I like them and the way they make me feel (relaxation benefit), and am glad I started. My gut tells me they are doing me good even if I haven't been doing them long enough to see results. Please keep us posted.

Great write up! I hope you will see a lot more growth.

With that being said...picture or it didn't happen

I also signed the NDA some time ago, though I never followed up with the method as I ought to have. From the few times I did it, the bloodflow was evident; reminded me of a laser therapy treatment. Not sure what happened to the thread.

gdp2000, congratulations on your success!

I too have been applying manual methods, methods to increase blood flow and loosen the scalp.

Perhaps we should put together a list of free methods for discussion as to our favorites and which would be more beneficial (if any). It would also be a good reference for anyone who wishes to start doing manual methods, saving them time.

Below are the methods I use or have used. Just a note that I didn't invent any of these -- I picked them up from this site and over the internet.

* The Walken Hair Tug

Mr. Walken describes a technique told to him by Anthony Perkins when Walken was a kid. The technique is described as grabbing, pulling, and tugging your hair forward for five minutes.

Thanks for forum members Delphine and gdp2000 for this one.
https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t6898-how-christopher-walken-keeps-his-hair

Described between 6:57 and 8:20 in the following YouTube clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ7o-bV12vY

I like this one, but obviously useless for folks with short hair or no hair.

* Boar Bristle Brush

Brush your hair and or scalp with a boar bristle brush for a few minutes each day, concentrating on your hair line.

Thanks to Paradox.
https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t3227-lady-claims-using-boar-bristle-brush-regrew-hairline

Source: http://recedinghairline.blogspot.com/2005/06/my-true-story.html

This method will require a boar bristle brush. You can buy cheap ones -- mine cost around $20.

Make sure you get a 100% boar bristle brush, as other synthetic bristles can cause damage to hair and scalp (from what I've read). For example, when I purchased mine, there were a few for sale that were 50% nylon and 50% boar bristle. You don't want that type.

*Scalp Massage

This massage is very particular. What you want to do is put the tips of your fingers on each side of your scalp (left hand fingers on the edge of the left side of your scalp and right side fingers on the right side of your scalp). Push both sides together and hold for as long as you can. I try to hold for a minute or more. It gets easier over time. After releasing, I wait about 10 - 30 seconds and do it again. Can take me up to 10 minutes to cover my whole scalp. It might be overkill, but the feeling I get from it keeps me doing it. You can feel blood rushing to your head. It's weird, you'll see what I mean.

What I really like to do is brush for a while with my boar bristle brush, to get the blood flow in the area, and then do this massage.

I did learn this method from this forum. I think Duel_Black did or does this and I think he mentioned it in the old Papilla thread. I can't find it now. Apologies to Duel_Black or whoever originally mentioned this if I've got this reference wrong.

Technique is also described in the website below. It says to hold for 5 to 10 seconds. But I've found the longer you hold it, the better the sensation you get.

Source: http://www.segalshaircare.com/scalp-stimulation.php

*Tom Hagerty's technique (Hair Loss is Reversible)

This technique involves contracting the frontalis and occipitals muscles.

Mentioned heaps of times in this forum. Think I first heard about it from mphatesmpb's post.
https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t4383-tom-hagerty-s-scalp-exercises

Source: http://www.hairloss-reversible.com (click on "My Approach" and "My Approach Continued" for theory and technique).

---

My personal approach is this:

every morning and evening (twice a day)
5 minutes of boar bristle brushing
10 minutes of scalp massage

throughout the day I will do Hagerty's exercise.

It's amazing isn't it that this stuff actually works!!

I mean, it DOES make sense, as I think what happens is the inflammation in the scalp destroys blood vessels. So by doing all this you're increasing circulation.

Maybe if my current approach (Ray Peat / Danny Roddy / abc123 -inspired) fails, I will give this a go

If I may add a quick comment here Hoppi, as I've been following various threads for some time and I'm trying to make a decision as to which method to apply. I would rather apply one program that I Know works, than several programs that MIGHT work. This is very confusing to me.

IF gbp is telling you that whatever he is doing is working, and you know the exact same thing he does, as you signed up
for it as well, what are you waiting for? Why are you waiting for other methods to fail before you apply the one method
that someone is telling you works? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Please help me to understand this. I am trying to make a decision here.

Thanks,

wildman

Hoppipolla wrote:It's amazing isn't it that this stuff actually works!!

I mean, it DOES make sense, as I think what happens is the inflammation in the scalp destroys blood vessels. So by doing all this you're increasing circulation.

Maybe if my current approach (Ray Peat / Danny Roddy / abc123 -inspired) fails, I will give this a go

wildman wrote: If I may add a quick comment here Hoppi, as I've been following various threads for some time and I'm trying to make a decision as to which method to apply. I would rather apply one program that I Know works, than several programs that MIGHT work. This is very confusing to me.

IF gbp is telling you that whatever he is doing is working, and you know the exact same thing he does, as you signed up
for it as well, what are you waiting for? Why are you waiting for other methods to fail before you apply the one method
that someone is telling you works? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Please help me to understand this. I am trying to make a decision here.

Thanks,

wildman

Well no it's not quite like that, as I pretty much know the Ray Peat method works too as it seems to have worked on Danny Roddy, abc123 (who I've known for a while now) and tooyoung (I think, and who I've also known for a while now).

PLUS, the Ray Peat method is significantly closer to a cure, not just a treatment. My MPB started at precisely the same time as my "IBS", and this is a way of trying to tackle things at their core, not just basically sticking a band-aid on my hair loss and watching the rest of my body fall apart!!

Hoppi--

Doesn't Ray Peat advocate dairy?

Great post. Keep up the good work.
I will, too!

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Sadly, there has been such a bad attitude by some people (partially understandably) to this method - that there won't be any photos or anything like that until my regrowth is complete - I've no intention of playing that game until it is shockingly clear this has worked.

Hoppi - I'm still concerned you don't follow a scientific or logical process - having said that I'm sure Ray Peats method has great validity - I would stick with it. I can't see any before shots for Danny Roddy though and Ray's hair isn't much different from my own now....

Has ABC123 posted any photos or progress? I really should talk to him.

As I said though I won't post photos until I have full regrowth.

Please don't get too excited - whilst I am gaining hairs on my temples, I've had a massive shed on the island. Hopefully, this is positive.

My hair as it thinned, gained an auburn, straw like quality. The hair that seems to go in the shedding is that hair - I have almost no auburn, straw like hair left.

Thanks to everyone for their positive messages and replies. The result of this experiment is looking like it will either be a decent, but slow recovery, or massive sheds with no significant regrowth. I find the latter unlikely, simply because the presence of shedding speaks volumes.

Hey Hoppi,

One other thought - I have direct or indirect evidence of around 15 people who had full regrowth with these methods, if you take the time to read the research papers I have referenced for the last few months you would realise that complete regrowth with a dietary method may prove exceedingly difficult.

If you are seeing positive hair results with Ray Peat / Roddy / Flukes / whatever - then stick with it - however I don't appreciate the negative inferences on something you don't understand. You've tried an awful lot of stuff (nothing wrong there) - with very little actual results. By all means start a thread about your results, I would be very interested - and I can see a future hybrid of the methods.

Whilst I'm certain you don't mean it, your a very friendly chap - a lot of your posts are very negative / passive aggressive - and this is one method that could do with the level of poison it has received.

nidhogge wrote:Hoppi--

Doesn't Ray Peat advocate dairy?

He certainly does. I don't have an issue with that - but I would say a lot of his advice doesn't gel well with Healthyfixx / CS. Also, I don't think Ray has the best (nor the worst) head of hair - so I wonder if he feels his methods can do more to prevent hairloss than regenerate it. I can't see any before photos for Danny Roddy.

I would love to know how ABC is doing.

nidhogge wrote:Hoppi--

Doesn't Ray Peat advocate dairy?

Nid,

I understand that your against dairy and of course for some people, they do have a genuine allergy. I remember in a previous thread you said milk was not a superfood but chia seeds were.

Despite their ‘perfect ratio’ of omega 3s to 6s, chia seeds would be of little use to me. They would probably exit much as they went in. Yet milk for me seems to be easily absorbed and gives no trouble. I understand there are issues of A1 vs A2 and all that malarkey but for now it seems all good.

Despite some of the stupidity of Durianrider, he makes a valid point
on all these starvation diets that are advocated as ‘healthy’.

If eating salads all day with the result being a cold, constipated person with no energy for exercise or life is healthy, then F*** that.

If chugging milk and orange juice is unhealthy with the results being muscle gain, fat loss, energy for exercise twice daily before and after work, stopping hair loss, major improvement in gut problems, then being unhealthy aint so bad.

However as gbp2000 points out, I don’t think one can really regrow hair on ray peats diet. As jdp said, there are now many ways to stop hair loss. As of late, bicarbonate of soda/Epsom salt/bentonite clay baths, followed with LLLT (thanks nidhogge!) and coconut oil/aloe vera topical is doing great for me along with this lifestyle (it’s not a diet, it’s a lifestyle).

lambyjay wrote:

nidhogge wrote:Hoppi--

Doesn't Ray Peat advocate dairy?

Nid,

I understand that your against dairy and of course for some people, they do have a genuine allergy. I remember in a previous thread you said milk was not a superfood but chia seeds were.

Despite their ‘perfect ratio’ of omega 3s to 6s, chia seeds would be of little use to me. They would probably exit much as they went in. Yet milk for me seems to be easily absorbed and gives no trouble. I understand there are issues of A1 vs A2 and all that malarkey but for now it seems all good.

Despite some of the stupidity of Durianrider, he makes a valid point
on all these starvation diets that are advocated as ‘healthy’.

If eating salads all day with the result being a cold, constipated person with no energy for exercise or life is healthy, then F*** that.

If chugging milk and orange juice is unhealthy with the results being muscle gain, fat loss, energy for exercise twice daily before and after work, stopping hair loss, major improvement in gut problems, then being unhealthy aint so bad.

However as gbp2000 points out, I don’t think one can really regrow hair on ray peats diet. As jdp said, there are now many ways to stop hair loss. As of late, bicarbonate of soda/Epsom salt/bentonite clay baths, followed with LLLT (thanks nidhogge!) and coconut oil/aloe vera topical is doing great for me along with this lifestyle (it’s not a diet, it’s a lifestyle).

Starvation type diets with the symptoms of being cold and having low energy are promoted because people believe in the rate of living theory. That is, an organism has a set amount of energy to use determined by its genetics. This however is incorrect, a high metabolism leads to a longer life span and also feeling a hell of a lot better.

Dairy is one of the best sources of calcium and its benefits far outweigh the highly unlikely risk with A1 casein.

abc123 wrote:

lambyjay wrote:

nidhogge wrote:Hoppi--

Doesn't Ray Peat advocate dairy?

Nid,

I understand that your against dairy and of course for some people, they do have a genuine allergy. I remember in a previous thread you said milk was not a superfood but chia seeds were.

Despite their ‘perfect ratio’ of omega 3s to 6s, chia seeds would be of little use to me. They would probably exit much as they went in. Yet milk for me seems to be easily absorbed and gives no trouble. I understand there are issues of A1 vs A2 and all that malarkey but for now it seems all good.

Despite some of the stupidity of Durianrider, he makes a valid point
on all these starvation diets that are advocated as ‘healthy’.

If eating salads all day with the result being a cold, constipated person with no energy for exercise or life is healthy, then F*** that.

If chugging milk and orange juice is unhealthy with the results being muscle gain, fat loss, energy for exercise twice daily before and after work, stopping hair loss, major improvement in gut problems, then being unhealthy aint so bad.

However as gbp2000 points out, I don’t think one can really regrow hair on ray peats diet. As jdp said, there are now many ways to stop hair loss. As of late, bicarbonate of soda/Epsom salt/bentonite clay baths, followed with LLLT (thanks nidhogge!) and coconut oil/aloe vera topical is doing great for me along with this lifestyle (it’s not a diet, it’s a lifestyle).

Starvation type diets with the symptoms of being cold and having low energy are promoted because people believe in the rate of living theory. That is, an organism has a set amount of energy to use determined by its genetics. This however is incorrect, a high metabolism leads to a longer life span and also feeling a hell of a lot better.

Dairy is one of the best sources of calcium and its benefits far outweigh the highly unlikely risk with A1 casein.

Agree with abc, in fact it seems best to strive for a balance, to take in as much energy as one needs to function... neither to starve nor to overstuff.

Lamby, mustard oil is controversial, but here's a snippet from wikipedia ....

" it has 21% polyunsaturates of which 6% is the omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid and 15% omega-6 linoleic acid and it has 12% saturated fats."

So, it seems mustard has a good balance of omega 3 to 6, if one skips the oil, one may like to use mustard seeds and paste in cooking.

Also, strongly second the combination of coconut oil + aloe vera, this has been good for my scalp as well.

cheers.

My feeling is that ultimately better circulation is going to help almost any of is in the hairloss battle, no matter what we do. I don't believe dairy needs to be an issue for people - especially if they can overcome lactose intolerance.

I remember reading a study which cited much improved results for Finesteride thanks to cycling minerals, vitamins and amino acids in a three day rotation pattern.


One could argue that the vast improvement was due to some synergistic effect with Fin. Alternatively, it may simply be the result of overall improved health.

If that is the case, then correct nutrition and perhaps supplementation could see us make significant gains across the board.http://www.hairlossindia.com/images/publication/Cyclical%20Medicine%20Article%20published%20in%20Forum-USA.pdf

GBP, I also have been continuing this method since december. I had stopped doing it around september last year because i saw a fair amount of hair shed on it. Now im thinking this is probably a period that just needs to be pushed through. I think I see a few pigmented hairs popping up in the temples, but its hard to tell if they will turn into anything cosmetic. At the same time, Im trying not to watch too closely as I realize that this will probably take a while (years) if its going to produce anything significant. I will keep you guys posted. Question: After the terms of the NDA are up, we are allowed to share the method, right?

Hi Phoenix,

in terms of the NDA - that's for you and Papilla to discuss, but that was my takeaway from it.

I'm glad to hear you are back on board. I too experienced that initial shed - as I've mentioned it took me a norwood worse than I was.

I appear to be having that shed again. However, my temples are fundamentally different - they are now a mess of random hairs - far more than before. If the amount of hair triple (I realise that is a big increase) - then I will have something cosmetically half decent again.

The central island has shed a lot lately. What I have noticed is the weird straw auburn hair is gone. The random temple hairs are much thicker by and large.

gbp2000 wrote:Hey Hoppi,

One other thought - I have direct or indirect evidence of around 15 people who had full regrowth with these methods, if you take the time to read the research papers I have referenced for the last few months you would realise that complete regrowth with a dietary method may prove exceedingly difficult.

If you are seeing positive hair results with Ray Peat / Roddy / Flukes / whatever - then stick with it - however I don't appreciate the negative inferences on something you don't understand. You've tried an awful lot of stuff (nothing wrong there) - with very little actual results. By all means start a thread about your results, I would be very interested - and I can see a future hybrid of the methods.

Whilst I'm certain you don't mean it, your a very friendly chap - a lot of your posts are very negative / passive aggressive - and this is one method that could do with the level of poison it has received.

I don't have any issue with circulation-based methods - quite the opposite, as I've said they make a lot of sense to me and I'm happy they're working for people.

Let me know how you get on, and I'll keep you posted too

Quick question.

If you did in fact, stop using the method that you signed on for, then started again and haven't seen significant results, why would you share the information that you learned, even after after one year is up? You won't have enough re-growth to convince anyone that you know what you're talking about and you certainly won't be knowledgeable enough to answer any questions that people are going to ask you. So, again, why?

phoenix21 wrote:GBP, I also have been continuing this method since december. I had stopped doing it around september last year because i saw a fair amount of hair shed on it. Now im thinking this is probably a period that just needs to be pushed through. I think I see a few pigmented hairs popping up in the temples, but its hard to tell if they will turn into anything cosmetic. At the same time, Im trying not to watch too closely as I realize that this will probably take a while (years) if its going to produce anything significant. I will keep you guys posted. Question: After the terms of the NDA are up, we are allowed to share the method, right?

abc123 wrote:

Starvation type diets with the symptoms of being cold and having low energy are promoted because people believe in the rate of living theory. That is, an organism has a set amount of energy to use determined by its genetics. This however is incorrect, a high metabolism leads to a longer life span and also feeling a hell of a lot better.

Dairy is one of the best sources of calcium and its benefits far outweigh the highly unlikely risk with A1 casein.

The rate of living theory sounds absolutely ridiculous.

Also I think if one did have an issue with A1 it would manifest itself in early age rather than hit you out of the blue in later life.

There are all these people out there saying 'Milk is a big evil business'. Perhaps in parts. But its big competitor soy is much worse and no doubt contributes (secretly and publicly) to the scare mongering of cows milk. All these vegetarians/vegans sometimes forget that there is a motive behind their sector as well.

9rugrats5 - Im not sure what you mean by the mustard oil? I was on about Chia seeds, another 'superfood'. Most of these new age superfoods are pure tac. Take goji berries as we know them, the dry hard chewy things that have been sitting in a shop for months maybe years. An apple contains a hell of lot more goodness than that rubbish. (Pectin is fine for me)

I like this new moniker ... Manual Method.

It's plausible and I'm trying out several of the MM's (Maliniak, PP, various massages ...). Still taking my supplements, a few topicals, LLLT, etc ... The kitchen sink approach.

There was an interesting article about massage in the NY Times the other day that caught my eye. In addition to the increased circulation theory (or maybe this is circulation related) could this possibly be another mechanism by which MM helps with hair loss? Here's an excerpt:

They found that massage reduced the production of compounds called cytokines, which play a critical role in inflammation. Massage also stimulated mitochondria, the tiny powerhouses inside cells that convert glucose into the energy essential for cell function and repair. “The bottom line is that there appears to be a suppression of pathways in inflammation and an increase in mitochondrial biogenesis,” helping the muscle adapt to the demands of increased exercise, said the senior author, Dr. Mark A. Tarnopolsky.

Hoppipolla wrote:tooyoung (I think, and who I've also known for a while now)

Only just started getting fully strict Peat, I've noticed improved mood, happiness, libido, less inflammation, still new to it all though.