Lets discuss the pattern of MPB!

My belief is that if we can identify the cause of the pattern in MPB, we will have a far better chance of piecing together the final puzzle.
I was once educated by cdto2012 on the fact that the areas of the scalp that require calcium to be transported to them, such as the scalp sutures and the scalp eminences, may become inflamed if calcium and other substances deposit themselves in the surrounding tissue, maybe then resulting in fibrosis due to chronic inflammation. To me, this explains the pattern of MPB as my hair recession follows exactly along my frontal scalp suture.
Now the thing that still baffles me is that why does it start at the area closest to the ears, and then work its way up along the frontal suture until you are left with a little tuft of hair at the middle front of your hairline? For those of you that disbelieve in the calcification theory, I'm here to tell you first hand that i have witnessed the sound of many grains of salt being crushed simultaneously when performing the DT-CPR method. So if that's not calcification, then what is it?

Now that i have that off my chest, the next thing i want to talk about is the lymphatic vessels. After looking at photos of literally hundreds of patients with some kind of lymphatic obstruction, such as lymphedema, i cant help but notice the similarities between these people and the scalps of bald people. They have the same swollen, tight and shiny looking skin on their damaged HAIRLESS limbs as bald males have on their head. So what I'm trying to say is, is this lymphatic obstruction in our scalps a RESULT of chronic inflammation and calcification? Or, is it the CAUSE of calcification and inflammation? Could these calcium (or whatever it is) deposits basically intrude and block the lymphatic vessels running through our scalps in these specific areas? I remember reading somewhere on this site, someone mentioned these openings that run through our scalp sutures, to allow lymph vessels and capillaries to pass through. Is it possible that we are experiencing some kind of deformity in our scalp sutures that almost block these openings? Preventing proper drainage of lymph fluid and blood circulation?

Dont get me wrong, i believe that hair loss can be STOPPED by eating an anti-inflammatory diet, after reading many a story of people doing so, which is obvious that reducing inflammation can stop hair loss. But, what about the people that have horrendous diets and eat many inflammatory foods, are overweight, and don't sleep much, yet, some of these people still have a full head of hair? Why does inflammation seem to effect our hair yet no theirs? There's more to the story than just that.
Please anyone feel free to comment any productive information on this topic, we are all on the verge of overcoming this, so keep researching, i know ill never stop.
Oh by the way, I'm not quite 6 months in on cd's DT-CPR method, and i can tell you for sure that my hair loss has stopped and my vellus hairs along my whole original hairline are slowly becoming thicker and spikier.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

alphadelta wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

these therapies would face one of the biggest challenges of medicine today: Reversing a fibrotic process.

long hair wrote:

alphadelta wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

these therapies would face one of the biggest challenges of medicine today: Reversing a fibrotic process.

Only thing is, in MPB, is fibrotic scarring really a factor?

1. I can see every micro vellus hair (peach fuzz) where my hairline once grew terminally. So, if scar tissue was a factor, then there'd be no papilla or peach fuzz hair.

2. Many alopecia areata sufferers are known to experience regrowth, even after many years of autoimmune attack, therefore this would likely indicate (inc. MPB), that only matrix cells are attacked, but these cells are constantly renewed with each hair growth cycle anyway, providing that there are enough progenitor cells to signal growth.

Xenon wrote:

long hair wrote:

alphadelta wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

these therapies would face one of the biggest challenges of medicine today: Reversing a fibrotic process.

Only thing is, in MPB, is fibrotic scarring really a factor?

1. I can see every micro vellus hair (peach fuzz) where my hairline once grew terminally. So, if scar tissue was a factor, then there'd be no papilla or peach fuzz hair.

2. Many alopecia areata sufferers are known to experience regrowth, even after many years of autoimmune attack, therefore this would likely indicate (inc. MPB), that only matrix cells are attacked, but these cells are constantly renewed with each hair growth cycle anyway, providing that there are enough progenitor cells to signal growth.

Is it possible that the scarr tissue is located beneath the actual follicle? I was never too sure about fibrosis, but seeing as though fibrosis can result due to chronic inflammation, one would think that there would be. That crunching I hear, man it's gotten so loud now, when I roll the bottle over my temples it scares me, but I feel no pain whatsoever.
Also, why the pattern? Why doesn't the hair just fall out in random places? I would have thought what causes MPB would be different to what cause alopecia areata. So far cd is the only person to give me a logical explanation of the pattern, but you all seem like such wise individuals. What would be your best guess?

the pattern explained here a years ago , it just the galia and its muscles.
http://bornagainhair.com/

mental stress is a main cause of unusual muscle contraction and hormonal unbalance ,bald guys are stressful it just a common factor reported 100s of time in the hair loss forums .
if you focus on the sides of your head you will really feel the muscle contracted without your control ...it just happened subconsciously.

http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/hairloss/page2-featuredcontributors/the_mechanics_of_male_pattern_baldness

Iwillsucceed wrote:My belief is that if we can identify the cause of the pattern in MPB, we will have a far better chance of piecing together the final puzzle.
I was once educated by cdto2012 on the fact that the areas of the scalp that require calcium to be transported to them, such as the scalp sutures and the scalp eminences, may become inflamed if calcium and other substances deposit themselves in the surrounding tissue, maybe then resulting in fibrosis due to chronic inflammation. To me, this explains the pattern of MPB as my hair recession follows exactly along my frontal scalp suture.
Now the thing that still baffles me is that why does it start at the area closest to the ears, and then work its way up along the frontal suture until you are left with a little tuft of hair at the middle front of your hairline? For those of you that disbelieve in the calcification theory, I'm here to tell you first hand that i have witnessed the sound of many grains of salt being crushed simultaneously when performing the DT-CPR method. So if that's not calcification, then what is it?

Now that i have that off my chest, the next thing i want to talk about is the lymphatic vessels. After looking at photos of literally hundreds of patients with some kind of lymphatic obstruction, such as lymphedema, i cant help but notice the similarities between these people and the scalps of bald people. They have the same swollen, tight and shiny looking skin on their damaged HAIRLESS limbs as bald males have on their head. So what I'm trying to say is, is this lymphatic obstruction in our scalps a RESULT of chronic inflammation and calcification? Or, is it the CAUSE of calcification and inflammation? Could these calcium (or whatever it is) deposits basically intrude and block the lymphatic vessels running through our scalps in these specific areas? I remember reading somewhere on this site, someone mentioned these openings that run through our scalp sutures, to allow lymph vessels and capillaries to pass through. Is it possible that we are experiencing some kind of deformity in our scalp sutures that almost block these openings? Preventing proper drainage of lymph fluid and blood circulation?

Dont get me wrong, i believe that hair loss can be STOPPED by eating an anti-inflammatory diet, after reading many a story of people doing so, which is obvious that reducing inflammation can stop hair loss. But, what about the people that have horrendous diets and eat many inflammatory foods, are overweight, and don't sleep much, yet, some of these people still have a full head of hair? Why does inflammation seem to effect our hair yet no theirs? There's more to the story than just that.
Please anyone feel free to comment any productive information on this topic, we are all on the verge of overcoming this, so keep researching, i know ill never stop.
Oh by the way, I'm not quite 6 months in on cd's DT-CPR method, and i can tell you for sure that my hair loss has stopped and my vellus hairs along my whole original hairline are slowly becoming thicker and spikier.

I use a1.5 mm derma roller ever tuesday night for the past 6 months, btw i am a nw2, everytime i roll or stamp my balding temples ,i get this crunch sound that literally sounds like eating patato chips throughtout the area. Calcium?

Good posts guys. I agree with you with lymphedema so many similarities with the symptoms of baldness. The itching, swelling, tightness and hardened lymph which could be the hardened texture underneath the skin which crunches whilst doing DT (I experience this a lot lately). I'm not saying this is the cause of baldness but its very similar. I have a open mind to all theories. Its really coincidental though that baldness is accurately in the Galea region, and exactly in my case where the crunch happens. Tendons are known to get calcified and fibrosis, is this the crunch? The most frustrating thing is companies and studies are all sticking on the DHT idea, which I personally find hard to believe. Theres no money being pump into other studies to prove against DHT. Theres a number of things that dont add up with the DHT theory, but that's just my view on it not saying I'm right. Why did everyone dismiss Henry Choys theory straight away, why hasn't that theory been replicated with the proper investment and studies?? At least we could rule it out if it had fair conclusion. I know when I'm working hard or get hot my scalp itches like mad and my scalp feels oily and weird is that all getting built up under our scalp? Prior to my receding my scalp and forehead was really greasy. Is that what the crunch is, hardened trapped grease? Is Henry Choy Detumescence theory right? If we could find out whats crunching it might help towards beating this crap. Theres definitely a build up of something, I didn't have that ridge before and with DT its definitely helping flatten my scalp again and my scalp overall is becoming looser, nice and relaxed kind of feeling. What is the build up and why the Galea??

Very encouraging to hear the progress from the faithful.   I was searching for the post that I did with the diagrams from this link,  but could not find it, so I redid it to illustrate the theory. 

http://www.hairgrowthsos.com/skull-expansion.html


This was the starting basis for the calcification being transported to the active skull bone growth areas and blocking the one cell wide blood vessels that support the hair follicle. 

This  link shows the active growth areas where the MPB area is located is the same area.

http://www.hairgrowthsos.com/male-pattern-baldness.html




The summary is that  the pattern is formed by calcification possibly adhering to sticky triglyceride like plaque in the capillaries.  Then with the blood flow to the top and crown is diminished because they are farther from the larger vessels pictured on the sides of the head.  

I had a hard time locating this post, so I will also repost it on the DT-CPR pages.  Keep up the hopeful work guys.

long hair wrote:the pattern explained here a years ago , it just the galia and its muscles.
http://bornagainhair.com/

mental stress is a main cause of unusual muscle contraction  and  hormonal unbalance ,bald guys are stressful it just a common factor reported 100s of time in the  hair loss forums .
if you focus on the sides of your head  you will really feel the muscle contracted  without your control ...it just happened subconsciously.

http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/hairloss/page2-featuredcontributors/the_mechanics_of_male_pattern_baldness

i agree with this actually... you can definetely feel what it's like when your cortisol is soaring, it's like your jaw is perma clenched, like the muscles are clenching hard, you don't really realize it until you actually manage to get it to relax completely, once it's completely relaxed, it feels like calming in your head, it probably happens while we are sleeping too, high cortisol and then you are clenching your jaw in the night

Well which is it then? Is it the muscles that are attached to your galea causing this? Or is it cd's theory? Or both? Is there a possibility that one could cause the other? How does one go about loosening these muscles? Sorry for all the questions haha

Oh and and I watched a few videos of Dr Robert Morse on YouTube, and he explains what he believes causes MPB, and that is kidneys that do not filter properly. It can't seriously be as something as simple as this can it? It confuses me when I see so many unhealthy looking people have full heads of hair. Surely their kidneys aren't working any better than ours? He basically said it can be cured through a proper diet, but I am yet to hear of someone reversing the hairloss through a clean diet?

Iwillsucceed wrote:

Xenon wrote:

long hair wrote:

alphadelta wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

these therapies would face one of the biggest challenges of medicine today: Reversing a fibrotic process.

Only thing is, in MPB, is fibrotic scarring really a factor?

1. I can see every micro vellus hair (peach fuzz) where my hairline once grew terminally. So, if scar tissue was a factor, then there'd be no papilla or peach fuzz hair.

2. Many alopecia areata sufferers are known to experience regrowth, even after many years of autoimmune attack, therefore this would likely indicate (inc. MPB), that only matrix cells are attacked, but these cells are constantly renewed with each hair growth cycle anyway, providing that there are enough progenitor cells to signal growth.

Is it possible that the scarr tissue is located beneath the actual follicle? I was never too sure about fibrosis, but seeing as though fibrosis can result due to chronic inflammation, one would think that there would be. That crunching I hear, man it's gotten so loud now, when I roll the bottle over my temples it scares me, but I feel no pain whatsoever.
Also, why the pattern? Why doesn't the hair just fall out in random places? I would have thought what causes MPB would be different to what cause alopecia areata. So far cd is the only person to give me a logical explanation of the pattern, but you all seem like such wise individuals. What would be your best guess?

There's so many intriguing theories, but, unfortunately, not exactly unified as I'd like. For me though, I know for certain that excessive combing in my youth, played a huge role in premature recession. I used to part my hair on the right, and this was first to recede, so I started parting on the left, and this side began to recede. So I started parting the middle (to hide my receded temples), then the widow's peak area started to thin. Two things likely happened here: 1. inflammation caused by friction from comb teeth 2. hairs being uprooted.

Yet, combing only led to thinning when I began producing testosterone, and masturbating a great deal. Therefore T / DHT must play some precursive role in slowing down the healing process. We know this to be true because 1. Many FTM transsexuals experience thinning hair after a while of T administration 2. Many males start experiencing thinning hair when they start producing T. IDK the exact adverse effect T / DHT has on follicles... some think clogging; some think it programs progenitor cells to enter into a state of decline, so when the follicle has been wounded, it just continues to deteriorate.

Other definite factors: wearing tight hats and pillow compression. When I used to wear a baseball cap very tightly (to prevent the wind blowing it off), my temples inflamed and receded like no man's business. My reckoning is, mechanical overload causes these cells to become crushed against the hard mass of the skull. So there's another direct insult to the follicles.

I stopped combing and wearing hats, and that's when my hairloss more or less stablized, yet a shitload of irreversible damage had already been done. It did continue to recede, albeit much more slowly, and I later realized that pillow compression was having a similar effect to my baseball cap (mechanical force), hence me constantly waking with an inflamed temple.

Anyway, IMO, if DHT wasn't part of the equation I think that these follicles would have a stronger chance in recovering from wounding. This is why I'm committed to no fap right now, because I know I need to reduce my DHT levels if I want to recover my loss. How effective this will be beyond a year IDK, but it's worth a shot in finding out (day 24 so far).

Iwillsucceed wrote:Well which is it then? Is it the muscles that are attached to your galea causing this? Or is it cd's theory? Or both? Is there a possibility that one could cause the other? How does one go about loosening these muscles? Sorry for all the questions haha

Oh and and I watched a few videos of Dr Robert Morse on YouTube, and he explains what he believes causes MPB, and that is kidneys that do not filter properly. It can't seriously be as something as simple as this can it? It confuses me when I see so many unhealthy looking people have full heads of hair. Surely their kidneys aren't working any better than ours? He basically said it can be cured through a proper diet, but I am yet to hear of someone reversing the hairloss through a clean diet?

the theory is :::the muscles pull the galea down leading to low blood circulation so it became acidity there ,calcium is depleted from the skull bone to reduce the acidity but this cause inter cellular calcification and it make the tissue hard which is also decrease the circulation .

Xenon wrote:

Iwillsucceed wrote:

Xenon wrote:

long hair wrote:

alphadelta wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

these therapies would face one of the biggest challenges of medicine today: Reversing a fibrotic process.

Only thing is, in MPB, is fibrotic scarring really a factor?

1. I can see every micro vellus hair (peach fuzz) where my hairline once grew terminally. So, if scar tissue was a factor, then there'd be no papilla or peach fuzz hair.

2. Many alopecia areata sufferers are known to experience regrowth, even after many years of autoimmune attack, therefore this would likely indicate (inc. MPB), that only matrix cells are attacked, but these cells are constantly renewed with each hair growth cycle anyway, providing that there are enough progenitor cells to signal growth.

Is it possible that the scarr tissue is located beneath the actual follicle? I was never too sure about fibrosis, but seeing as though fibrosis can result due to chronic inflammation, one would think that there would be. That crunching I hear, man it's gotten so loud now, when I roll the bottle over my temples it scares me, but I feel no pain whatsoever.
Also, why the pattern? Why doesn't the hair just fall out in random places? I would have thought what causes MPB would be different to what cause alopecia areata. So far cd is the only person to give me a logical explanation of the pattern, but you all seem like such wise individuals. What would be your best guess?

There's so many intriguing theories, but, unfortunately, not exactly unified as I'd like. For me though, I know for certain that excessive combing in my youth, played a huge role in premature recession. I used to part my hair on the right, and this was first to recede, so I started parting on the left, and this side began to recede. So I started parting the middle (to hide my receded temples), then the widow's peak area started to thin. Two things likely happened here: 1. inflammation caused by friction from comb teeth 2. hairs being uprooted.

Yet, combing only led to thinning when I began producing testosterone, and masturbating a great deal. Therefore T / DHT must play some precursive role in slowing down the healing process. We know this to be true because 1. Many FTM transsexuals experience thinning hair after a while of T administration 2. Many males start experiencing thinning hair when they start producing T. IDK the exact adverse effect T / DHT has on follicles... some think clogging; some think it programs progenitor cells to enter into a state of decline, so when the follicle has been wounded, it just continues to deteriorate.

Other definite factors: wearing tight hats and pillow compression. When I used to wear a baseball cap very tightly (to prevent the wind blowing it off), my temples inflamed and receded like no man's business. My reckoning is, mechanical overload causes these cells to become crushed against the hard mass of the skull. So there's another direct insult to the follicles.

I stopped combing and wearing hats, and that's when my hairloss more or less stablized, yet a shitload of irreversible damage had already been done. It did continue to recede, albeit much more slowly, and I later realized that pillow compression was having a similar effect to my baseball cap (mechanical force), hence me constantly waking with an inflamed temple.

Anyway, IMO, if DHT wasn't part of the equation I think that these follicles would have a stronger chance in recovering from wounding. This is why I'm committed to no fap right now, because I know I need to reduce my DHT levels if I want to recover my loss. How effective this will be beyond a year IDK, but it's worth a shot in finding out (day 24 so far).

cortisol is the connection dude, it is all cortisol, like the galea guy said, yes the cortisol will tighten it and cause constriction, but the root cause is the cortisol and lowering it, the galea will go back relaxed once cortisol is under control. fixing cortisol is saving your life, not even about hair, when you are in your 50s and 60s and 70s, look at the people balding, all the fat accumulation around the waist, it is all from cortisol over time.. the john stamos's and brad pitt's, they clearly have cortisol under control... "carb free" is not the answer in anyway shape or form.. you are increasing cortisol with it and probably initiating hair loss

My personal experience is that I'm definitely noticing my overall scalp is becoming a lot looser, even the sides, by doing DT. The itching has gone too but I'm not sure about regrowth. What is that build up under our scalp?? I'm definitely breaking it down and flattening the top of my head and the tightness is reducing.
Do you guys rule out the trapped grease theory??

Great posts about the Cortisol, I do experience this on times I just can not get my scalp to relax, I really got to calm down and focus on relaxing. Apparently 5 deep long breaths should bring Cortisol levels down????

It really grips my shit that L'Oreal and Replicel etc. are all making "treatments" to hair loss and not focusing on the real cause and cure. They basically implanting your hairs they've grown in a lab. Treatments are on going, on going means money . It's obvious we can regrow our own damn hair with proof of loosening the galea with botox, using Rogaine etc. Our own hair is there just miniaturized, we just need that extra push to get the normal cycle back and have full regrowth, fuck implants.

Can i ask you what do you think Rogaine does?? Is it just increasing blood flow to our scalp, without tackling the actual problem? I feel there's something happening within that galea that's blocking normal function. Think of a jug holding water, the water needs to be at a specific level. The jug develops a crack and starts losing water. We'll tackle the problem by not fixing it, but by constantly topping the water up. Once we stop topping the water up the problems still there. Likewise hair fall continues once Rogaine as stopped. Sorry for that terrible analogy.

I can't get along with the DHT idea, well the way its portrayed. My Grandfather who's been NW0 all of his life, i got pictures of him in his teens, 20's, 30's and from what I remember him like he's never had a mature hairline just straight across like a child. At the age of 81 its only now in the last year the galea is thinning not the sides. He is older now so there's bound to be some deterioration, but why now in a year? Maybe stress. Look at Eddie Van Halen another NW0, he's had a cracking set of hair all his life, but the last couple of years his hairline as changed all of a sudden. Maybe the booze helped with blood circulation lol now he's stopped drinking his hair been effected, I'm joking on this part by the way. Your DHT levels should lower as you get older. I personally think DHT is the cause of baldness. Its frustrating there's no investigation into the Galea. Whats happening there calcification, fibrosis, effects of Cortisol?? The Galea is the pattern its gets progressively worse at different rates.

Jimbosteve88 wrote:My personal experience is that I'm definitely noticing my overall scalp is becoming a lot looser, even the sides, by doing DT. The itching has gone too but I'm not sure about regrowth. What is that build up under our scalp?? I'm definitely breaking it down and flattening the top of my head and the tightness is reducing.
Do you guys rule out the trapped grease theory??

Great posts about the Cortisol, I do experience this on times I just can not get my scalp to relax, I really got to calm down and focus on relaxing. Apparently 5 deep long breaths should bring Cortisol levels down????

It really grips my shit that L'Oreal and Replicel etc. are all making "treatments" to hair loss and not focusing on the real cause and cure. They basically implanting your hairs they've grown in a lab. Treatments are on going, on going means money . It's obvious we can regrow our own damn hair with proof of loosening the galea with botox, using Rogaine etc. Our own hair is there just miniaturized, we just need that extra push to get the normal cycle back and have full regrowth, fuck implants.

Can i ask you what do you think Rogaine does?? Is it just increasing blood flow to our scalp, without tackling the actual problem? I feel there's something happening within that galea that's blocking normal function. Think of a jug holding water, the water needs to be at a specific level. The jug develops a crack and starts losing water. We'll tackle the problem by not fixing it, but by constantly topping the water up. Once we stop topping the water up the problems still there. Likewise hair fall continues once Rogaine as stopped. Sorry for that terrible analogy.

I can't get along with the DHT idea, well the way its portrayed. My Grandfather who's been NW0 all of his life, i got pictures of him in his teens, 20's, 30's and from what I remember him like he's never had a mature hairline just straight across like a child. At the age of 81 its only now in the last year the galea is thinning not the sides. He is older now so there's bound to be some deterioration, but why now in a year? Maybe stress. Look at Eddie Van Halen another NW0, he's had a cracking set of hair all his life, but the last couple of years his hairline as changed all of a sudden. Maybe the booze helped with blood circulation lol now he's stopped drinking his hair been effected, I'm joking on this part by the way. Your DHT levels should lower as you get older. I personally think DHT is the cause of baldness. Its frustrating there's no investigation into the Galea. Whats happening there calcification, fibrosis, effects of Cortisol?? The Galea is the pattern its gets progressively worse at different rates.

just breathe... oh no no my child lol. i wish. it goes much deeper than that... i suggest you goto http://www.raypeat.com/ and start reading everything... and go watch danny roddy's organizing the panic

sanderson wrote:
cortisol is the connection dude, it is all cortisol, like the galea guy said, yes the cortisol will tighten it and cause constriction, but the root cause is the cortisol and lowering it, the galea will go back relaxed once cortisol is under control. fixing cortisol is saving your life, not even about hair, when you are in your 50s and 60s and 70s, look at the people balding, all the fat accumulation around the waist, it is all from cortisol over time.. the john stamos's and brad pitt's, they clearly have cortisol under control... "carb free" is not the answer in anyway shape or form.. you are increasing cortisol with it and probably initiating hair loss

I wish I knew the answer to the cortisol dilemna.  Mine has been elevated for what seems like 8+ years or so.  My forehead and and over skull feels tight all the time ..... and my body is tense a lot. I've got this ridiculous "thin fat" in my lower ab area. Looks so odd because I lift weights and am in good shape aside from that.

Massaging my head cause indentations/marks and they take weeks to go away

Ah, I think we're all fucked whatever we do. Even if we got all of our hair back, it will be a short term security blanket because we're all going to decay and lose our looks regardless (then die), so, really, who cares? So what if women don't find us as physically attractive anymore? May as well just deal with it now and stop giving a fuck. Life is only a shitty temporary experience anyway, so may as well not make it any more shitty, worrying every fucking minute about baldness.  

I'm throwing in the towel on all of this shit and never looking back.

Nice connecting, and best of luck, dudes.

Xenon,   I am old enough to shave my head (as I do) and just be done with  the struggle.  Fortunately I enjoy the head massage and oils so I stick with my slow process. With my head shaved, life with little hair reconfirms that the world does not revolve around my hair and it has it's limited place in priorities.

 I hope you find good things beyond the surface things of life that pass.  I also hope you occasionally tune in here on the forum and share your thoughts and well researched perspectives,  or just life experiences . We never know when a few understanding words from the guys that have been around the block encourage the younger guys to have a better day , or just move on.

----------------------------

Hairbeback wrote:Massaging my head cause indentations/marks and they take weeks to go away

Make sure you are getting enough vitamin C , at least 1-2,000 mg daily this should reduce bruising.   The dents go away for most guys in less than an hour or two.  I don't notice that I have any dents anymore, as I did in the beginning.   Not sure if your scalp is inflamed or retaining water,  or something that is unusual.  Perhaps sodium levels are high, just guessing.  

You could try the 3/4 inch PVC elbow as I use.  It would create a different pattern and maybe not be as noticeable. I do think the problems you are having are being highlighted by the DT pressing,  not caused by it.  With that said,  take it slowly and gently until you find out a way to get your scalp healthy.

ray peat clearly talks about how to lower cortisol............ danny roddy has saved his hair from it........ the answers are there

Xenon wrote:Ah, I think we're all fucked whatever we do. Even if we got all of our hair back, it will be a short term security blanket because we're all going to decay and lose our looks regardless (then die), so, really, who cares? So what if women don't find us as physically attractive anymore? May as well just deal with it now and stop giving a fuck. Life is only a shitty temporary experience anyway, so may as well not make it any more shitty, worrying every fucking minute about baldness.  

I'm throwing in the towel on all of this shit and never looking back.

Nice connecting, and best of luck, dudes.

Dude, are you even doing cd's method? It's slow but I can promise you it works. I will post a good link soon from another site that will interest all you guys.

Xenon wrote:Ah, I think we're all fucked whatever we do. Even if we got all of our hair back, it will be a short term security blanket because we're all going to decay and lose our looks regardless (then die), so, really, who cares? So what if women don't find us as physically attractive anymore? May as well just deal with it now and stop giving a fuck. Life is only a shitty temporary experience anyway, so may as well not make it any more shitty, worrying every fucking minute about baldness.  

I'm throwing in the towel on all of this shit and never looking back.

Nice connecting, and best of luck, dudes.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/progesterone-summaries.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/three-hormones.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/salt.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging-estrogen-progesterone.shtml

sanderson ..i think pgd2 and lactic acid or any harmful stuff are produced in our tired galea muscle and travel with the blood to the scalp where they inhibit our hair growth ...this could be true if any study confirm that any muscle at any part of the body can produce them.

@xenon ..you can forget about hair loss but dont forget about massaging your scalp and relaxing the muscles ,this at least will help you to keeep what you have .(definitely you going to have regrowth ).

That you going to have some ups and you’re going to have some downs
Most people gave up on themselves easily
You know that a human spirit is powerful?
There is nothing as powerful – its hard to kill the human spirit!
Anybody can feel good when they have their health, they bills are paid, they have happy relationships
Anybody can be positive then,
Anybody can have a large of vision then
Anybody can have a lot of faith under those kind of circumstances
The real challenge of growth, mentally, emotionally and spiritually
Comes when you get knocked down
It takes courage to act
Part of being hungry when you’ve been defeated
It takes courage….
To start over again.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/a-review-of-male-pattern-baldness-research.89751/page-5

Here's the link I was talking about. They talk about similar ideas that we have been discussing here.