the liver connection?

4039,

Isn't choline a very potent methyl donor with 3 extra methyl grouls? Betaine (TMG) is a methyl donor as well with 2 extra methyl groups. Wouldn't this be a problem with people who have issues with methylation? I ask this because when I take methyl B12, I get serious side effects like insomnia, body rashes (pityriasis rosea), low tolerance to irritants, and more shedding. I have tested this numerous times, and every time I take mb12, I would get side effects, even at very low doses like 100 mcg. Methylfolate gives me similar side effects, increased shedding being the primary one. Disregarding benefits for liver, wouldn't choline be a bad choice in this case?

Also, I've read somewhere that choline needs to be taken with inositol to maximize its benefits. What's your pertake on that?

Changexpert wrote:4039,

Isn't choline a very potent methyl donor with 3 extra methyl grouls? Betaine (TMG) is a methyl donor as well with 2 extra methyl groups. Wouldn't this be a problem with people who have issues with methylation? I ask this because when I take methyl B12, I get serious side effects like insomnia, body rashes (pityriasis rosea), low tolerance to irritants, and more shedding. I have tested this numerous times, and every time I take mb12, I would get side effects, even at very low doses like 100 mcg. Methylfolate gives me similar side effects, increased shedding being the primary one. Disregarding benefits for liver, wouldn't choline be a bad choice in this case?

Also, I've read somewhere that choline needs to be taken with inositol to maximize its benefits. What's your pertake on that?

Lecithin contains both. That's why it is an ideal source. Lecithin is a superfood that as far as I can tell, is little understood and much underused.

Speaking of old science and the importance of optimal bile flow (ie choline, glycine, taurine, magnesium etc. sufficiency and proper hydration.) This 47-year-old study of 4,895 gallbladder necropsies shows the prevalence of gallstones, especially those above 30yo.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1552971/pdf/gut00699-0021.pdf

In 1969, egg consumption was more frequent with refined and processed foods being in their infancy. In 2015, I can only imagine how many are walking around with gallstones and sludge today.

Interesting to note that the more liver damage seen in these necropsies, the greater likelihood for gallstones or sludge. Females should be especially as concerned, as they were twice likely to get gallstones and sludge than men. In fact, 1-5 women above forty years old were found to have at least one gallstone, likely due to runaway exogenous estrogen.

4039 - I know you have posted the various supplements you would use to improve the liver and bile flow and I have asked you before but if you don't mind mind what is the exact protocol you would suggest to someone who has gallstones and sludge. Precisely which supplements would you take, brands etc. I would like to add that to what I already do. Thanks in advance

I seem to have problems with fat soluble vitamins when they are ingested orally, especially vit D and K. Does this mean that I have an issue with bile flow and vitamins are not being metabolized properly in the liver? I bought choline after reading the comments and a few ncbi studies, but at the same time, my PEMT gene seems to be okay and my estrogen level is high, which produces choline. My estrogen level is high because of innately weak liver that has suboptimal phase I detox pathway. Would choline and lecithin still be helpful in this case? I want to absorb those fat soluble vitamins!

Have I misunderstood anything here? Is it being said that Lecithin is better than Choline? I believe I have liver issues also.

Renky wrote:Have I misunderstood anything here? Is it being said that Lecithin is better than Choline? I believe I have liver issues also.

Not "better than." It is the best source of choline.

Isn't yolk lecithin better form than soy, sunflower, or rapeseed lecithin? All three are high in PUFA content, which I do not tolerate well for some reason. MUFA is okay for me, but PUFA gives me allergic reactions like skin rashes and acne. Why would this be?

4039,

Glycine 3-5000mg first thing in the morning
Lecithin 3TBL first thing in the morning

Where (and at what dose) do you place taurine within this to avoid any competition and maximise absorption?

Thanks again for your insight in this thread.

All the best,

James

There hasn't been much liver discussion in a while. Has anybody had long-term success here?