High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

RKERR9 Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:13 am

Hello

Just want to ask if you think i'm on the right track here. I realise this is long but hopefully you'll bear with me. I have diagnosed high liver enzymes and a definite issue removing toxins post finesteride. Its the only thing the doctor has found 'wrong' so i'm going to focus on it.

My three worst symptoms now are digestive (various IBS, bloating, white strange looking tongue), bad anxiety, poor sleep and racing mind (I wake up and my thoughts are going everywhere, mostly negative), mood swings and brain fog interspersed with very quick thinking. The two and fro is enough to drive me crazy to the point where I started to think I have Bi-polar. When things are going well I feel good but I cant get the consistency. Sometimes I just wake up thinking I am a different person. its quite scary Sad

I know it sounds weird but High dose MSM almost completely eliminates my shedding after a few days (its 100% noticeable), but then I feel groggy and anxious / depressed and i'm assuming this is because of a reduced ability to remove toxins, ornithine does a similar thing to me, but it helps with anxiety that I am now assuming is an ammonia build up. Its like a cycle, I take these supplements, feel very good (euphoric almost) and then crash and feel awful for several days. My theory is that I have a lot of toxicity built up which is slowly releasing and burdening the liver, either that or a proper issue with methylation and I just dont know where to start with that.

I wanted to highlight a plan to put together with a focus on the liver, and see if anyone has any thoughts. I'd be grateful for any help on this, I know it might sound mental.

100mg R-lipoic Acid x 3
Selenium
Decalcify x 3
Vitamin C x 2 before bed
MSM slow dose with some breaks
Ornithine slow dose with some breaks
Glutathione 450mg (lyphospheric)
Raw Carrot salad for digestion

Diet - mostly paleo, I do awful on starch and IBS-D with oats etc.

Sweating and excercise regularly.
Stress management - meditation.

Thanks a lot for any responses, this forum is great and i've learnt a lot. But I have some general issues about detoxing and how to safely remove the toxins and not release too many at the same time.

bobthebuilder Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:28 am

RKERR9 wrote:Hello

Just want to ask if you think i'm on the right track here. I realise this is long but hopefully you'll bear with me. I have diagnosed high liver enzymes and a definite issue removing toxins post finesteride. Its the only thing the doctor has found 'wrong' so i'm going to focus on it.

My three worst symptoms now are digestive (various IBS, bloating, white strange looking tongue), bad anxiety, poor sleep and racing mind (I wake up and my thoughts are going everywhere, mostly negative), mood swings and brain fog interspersed with very quick thinking. The two and fro is enough to drive me crazy to the point where I started to think I have Bi-polar. When things are going well I feel good but I cant get the consistency. Sometimes I just wake up thinking I am a different person. its quite scary

I know it sounds weird but High dose MSM almost completely eliminates my shedding after a few days (its 100% noticeable), but then I feel groggy and anxious / depressed and i'm assuming this is because of a reduced ability to remove toxins, ornithine does a similar thing to me, but it helps with anxiety that I am now assuming is an ammonia build up. Its like a cycle, I take these supplements, feel very good (euphoric almost) and then crash and feel awful for several days. My theory is that I have a lot of toxicity built up which is slowly releasing and burdening the liver, either that or a proper issue with methylation and I just dont know where to start with that.

I wanted to highlight a plan to put together with a focus on the liver, and see if anyone has any thoughts. I'd be grateful for any help on this, I know it might sound mental.

100mg R-lipoic Acid x 3
Selenium
Decalcify x 3
Vitamin C x 2 before bed
MSM slow dose with some breaks
Ornithine slow dose with some breaks
Glutathione 450mg (lyphospheric)
Raw Carrot salad for digestion

Diet - mostly paleo, I do awful on starch and IBS-D with oats etc.

Sweating and excercise regularly.
Stress management - meditation.

Thanks a lot for any responses, this forum is great and i've learnt a lot. But I have some general issues about detoxing and how to safely remove the toxins and not release too many at the same time.

Hi not CS but hopefully i can help, I used to have symptoms like your self it can be managed with diet.

First have you done any blood work? Vitamin D, Iron, Copper, Zinc, Tes? etc....

You most likely have allergies from food, here is a good article to start with http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/brainallergies.htm

When you body is overloaded, MSM is the worse supplement to take! Stop all MSM and sulfur foods for a while e.g. cabbage. (ammonia build up)

Eat these for and only these foods for a week or two and see if your mind changes bet it will!

Do Eat;
White Rice
Brown Rice
Cooked Veggies only
Meats
Oats
Sweet Potato

Dont Eat;
Eggs
Fruit
Coffee
Processed Foods
Gluten
Chocolate
Caffeine
Dairy
Sugar foods
Stop all supplements until your feeling better ALL

After you feel better you can start PLANT enzymes and HCL with pepsin tablets with each meal, that will greatly help with allergies and digestion.

CausticSymmetry Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:05 pm

RKERR9 - Check into MTHFR, it might be the reason you react this way.

RKERR9 Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:32 am

Thanks bob, that's a really useful advice, I'm waiting on some bloods and will request the ones you mentioned.

I will also try and elimination diet. I find it strange that the MSM seems to stop my hairloss dead, it's tough to stop taking it because of that fact.

Thanks CS, I find MTFR incredibly confusing, the test is very expensive - could you offer any thoughts of how I might adapt my protocol to see if this is an issue for me without purchasing a test?

AS54 Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:57 am

http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm

The link above has a ton of useful information. It can get you started seeing the complexity but also the simplicity of how broad ranging the effects can be from a single or double enzyme defect. Of course, if you want to learn more about the biochemistry involved in the pathways, you'll have to find some online resource that goes into the cycle in more detail. This page pretty much focuses on what can go wrong with a particular mutation. But obviously getting a better understanding of how the process works correctly in a healthy individual would make all of this clinical stuff a lot more enlightening. And that's basically where I'm at. I've found there isn't a whole lot of focus on these pathways in the university biochemistry (at least undergrad level), and my hopes aren't great for the higher levels either. So we've gotta do our own homework. Smile

With MTHFR, it basically boils down to a deficiency in the active methyl form of folate. So supplementation there is the basis.

Chelation is also an adjunct that will take some of the stress off the system while you try to correct the problem. Of course, throwing methyl folate at the system requires a balancing act. You are likely to have effects on B12 levels while you're at it. I'm no expert on this, so I'd visit the following site. Whodathunkit pointed me in this direction and I think its all fascinating. The forum below has some great advice on getting the folate/B12 right.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/active-b12-protocol-basics.10138/

Also, for the liver protocol. I'd add a quality vitamin E supplement and methionine. You could substitute selenomethionine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916970

As a buckshot method of enhancing your liver regimen, I'd eliminate any possible sources of food sensitivity also. Any inflammation of the gut will also hurt liver function.

sanderson Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:09 am

i have the same problem as you. i had high liver enzymes also, but they have since gone down. i've been down the MTHR route. basically, what needs to happen is you need to get the 23andme test, but i think they banned it now. if you dont get that, there are other tests you can get that test the methylation stresses.

here's where i had the most success with it: i did the no sulfur diet and took some of the supps from the link anthony posted. this diet is.. HARD AF. seriously, sulfur is in a lot of vegetables and in a lot of protein. i felt i got way skinny from it, it's basically eating nothing. but i'm planning to do it again. after around a week or two of doing it, i felt my androgens almost working again and felt more like myself, like a real human man. but the diet was so incredibly hard i couldnt stay on it, i felt like the diet was hurting my body. if you have decent weight on you, i'd recommend you try it. me im too skinny right now, but will try it again in maybe a month and a half.

besides that, weight lifting i've seen makes me the best. but it's many ups and downs. very hard condition.

whodathunkit Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:02 am

They didn't ban 23&me testing, they just banned the medical report/analysis that went with it. You can still get the test and see all your mutations, just not interpreted. For interpretation you can either research and interpret yourself, or run your results through genetic genie or some similar application. They have them online and you can run your results for a small fee.

FWIW, addressing methylation cycle has been about the single best thing I've ever done for myself with supplements and natural health. Too soon yet to know if it's doing my hair any good, but the way I feel is like a 180. And there have been no negatives for my hair thus far. It seems to act better, although I'd prefer to see an increase in density.

As Anthony said, I got most of the methylation info off the Phoenix Rising forums at the link he posted. Great stuff there. Especially posts by a guy named Freddd. Truly ground-breaking information there. But it's a lot, and like info here, is scattered through the forum. Gotta read, read, read.

Of course the foundation for kick-starting methylation is diet, gut health, detox/chelation...all the stuff we talk about here. And if it wasn't for here I wouldn't have even known about the methylation cycle. As with many/most things, I heard it here first.

I plan to get tested for the MTHFR defects in the near future, but IMHO you don't need to get tested as long as you're willing to experiment and listen to your body to see what combinations of supplements work for you. Some methyl donors I found I don't need to take since I got ATP production going, and other supplements were like iodine...I had to go slow and clean up a little before I could tolerate them. Then once I could tolerate them it was like oh yeah. This is the stuff. It's a process, just like everything else that's worthwhile to do after your body chemistry is screwed (either by circumstances beyond your control or by self-boneheadedness).

Zaphod Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:42 pm

For stressed liver, addressing gut infections is also what is imo very necessarily. Or you can run in circles with keeping the liver function high(er), but not addressing the continuously releasing poisons that are the real problem. Various ways to do so. I am not very positive with ''immune system will take care of it'' due immune system failure in the first place. Nutrition will help is also problematic approach as many nutrients go unabsorbed or there are more severe digestion issues.

Some infections as candida, giardia, tapeworm, require more dedicated and approach. There are many herb extracts that are described to work well against certain pathogen and it would be my first option as it's not very invasive. Next to it there would be bioresonance equipment that also have its promises. Random chemical approach as with origano oil MMS, H2O2, ozone, and various other agressive antibiotics are all more risky options, and should be used while others have failed, imo. For fungus i'd also try high dosages of niacinamide/niacin, which is highly toxic substance for them. dr. Klinghardt also says it will kill spirochetes...

When one can start? Well here are - tests, again. Probably majority even inaccurate ones. Stool tests searching for eggs, are not reliable method as there are many things possibilities that will contribute to show false negative. I have witnessed a case where despite severe inflammation, and gut symptoms, even severe bleeding (in stool); the medical profession have not found any of the problem. While doing biofeedback method there were many problems detected and cleared out via periods of a few months. But biofeedback tests are not reliable also and you can hardly call it diagnostic tests. However, luckily one don't need to go far into alternative energy medicine so can get a direction to looking. There are some options:

1. First let me say that there are many different types of testing for parasites and some of the large corporate labs use more than one, so what I will address first is the different types of testing and the pros and cons of each…

a. DNA/PCR testing: Involves testing the blood and fecal specimens for an imprint of the DNA of a parasite. Pros; it is definite. If it is there, there is no mistaking it. Cons; there are 2 major drawbacks to this kind of testing. 1. The DNA sequence is only known for the most common parasites, i.e., Amoeba, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium. Very often reports will come back as “taxonomy unidentifiable”. That means the sequence looks like that of a parasite but they can’t identify what it is. 2. Being a DNA imprint, there is no way to tell if it is a past or present infection, just that it was there at one time. It could be an infection from 50 years ago.

b. Antibody/Antigen: A blood test for the presence of antibodies of certain pathogens, grouped together in a general panel. Subsequent testing for an individual organism within that panel may prove the presence of specific antibodies incriminates a specific parasite within that panel. Pros; it is definite. If your body is producing antibodies for a particular pathogen it is unmistakable. Cons; 1. Only tests for that specific parasite. 2. For accurate results you need 3 blood tests one week apart (initial and 2 follow ups). If antibodies go up then you are presently producing antibodies indicating an active case, if not it is old infection. Unless it’s a parasite that has migrated to an organ or body cavity (that is when it is most useful).

c. Microscopy: Involves processing, concentration, staining, and examination of a (wet mount) stool specimen. Pros; This is still the most effective way of screening for a parasitic infection, and it is very accurate, if you see it, it is there. However, it is only as accurate as the technician viewing the slides. Cons; If the parasite has migrated to other organs, resides in the small intestine, or if it is a cyclical parasite, it might be missed. For example, Entamoeba histolytica may be missed in stool samples if it had already migrated to the liver which it occasionally does in chronic cases. If proper collection procedures are followed, the chance of missing a cyclical parasite or one from the small intestine is very small (5%).

d. Saliva: Like antibodies from saliva instead of blood. Pros; less invasive, simpler. Cons; Large margin of error. Antigens do not readily circulate in the saliva as they do in the blood.

e. Biofeedback machines: Measure the energy response of a patient to a particular stimulus that may originate from a parasite source. Pros; can give an indication that there may be an infection present. Cons; Not a diagnostic test, just an indicator of possible future direction.

f. Muscle testing: Indicates the possible presence of pathogen/toxin and or susceptibility to a toxin by placing the pathogen to be tested against the body and exerting pressure on the arm to see if the muscle gives way or not. Pros; It can give a sense of direction to what follow up tests are needed. Cons; if accurate, positive findings are not able to ascertain if it is an active case, past case, or future susceptibility to an infection.

2. Metametrix uses DNA testing. We get countless patients and doctor’s having us retest patients because their results with them came back “taxonomy unidentifiable”

3. Diagnos techs use saliva as well as blood antibody, and microscopy.

4. Genova uses Antibody, microscopy

5. Bio-Health uses antibody and microscopy

Zaphod Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:59 pm

Another thing about chronic infections is, that they migrate too different tissues and organs, so aren't found only in the gut. Especially if there were gymnastics with different antibiotics to address the issue. Good luck finding that out with gut biopsy or worse, basic stool test...

sanderson Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:32 pm

Beebrox wrote:Another thing about chronic infections is, that they migrate too different tissues and organs, so aren't found only in the gut. Especially if there were gymnastics with different antibiotics to address the issue. Good luck finding that out with gut biopsy or worse, basic stool test...

Huge point here.. fin people are overloaded with yeast infections without a doubt.. I think finasteride induced some massive insulin resistance leading to much higher suspeciabilty to yeast infections. One guy cured himself though massive anti candida means and most recoveries I've read involved no carb diets.

Zaphod Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:25 pm

Dont know what kind of overall poison is finasteride, due i have never taken it, but dont think it's guilty for all the health related evil in finasteride taking individuals all over the web. Maybe you wish to explore also other reasons why did you get finasteride in the first place. Sorry, but many times i find people need to hide against the excuse that explain of what keeps somebody down. When exuse is found there is empathy searching rather than turning the page and go further. Me being one of those as well, hiding against metals and dentist.

Fixing insulin resistance is huge, i think it goes hand in hand with yeast overgrowth (and others) and via versa. And as AS54 said in the one of his posts. Too much typing, too little doing things in practice is what keeps many from progress over the web. Hair, health, achievement related, it's all the same. Get in the zone and go for it as long as it lasts. Then recharge and go for it again.

Not sure how ''no carb'' diet can be cure for everybody with yeast infections. I think insulin spiking is where the problem really is, beside carbs being fuel for the pathogens. For yeast infection would rather try niacinamide 2-3g through the day and see how it goes. Taking some molydbenum and MSM and maybe some extra B6 for detox, while taking whole b-complex, i'd say it's an easy and safe to try protocol for everybody with yeast infections without interfering with the gut flora too much.. If there is another thing to add is multi mineral and/or some chelation agents as humifulvate as there might be metals issues.Other than that is sweating - via exercies or via sauna and afterwards replenishing what's being lost.

BTW,
I like myoinositol in ability how it makes me sweat easier. After trying it for a few months with different dosages, different timings, i've decreased time of exercising due the reason of taking it and it's side effects - increased sweating. I like it. But, never felt so good with it as from 0,5h of sweating exercises - may be running, tennis, basketball, strength exercieses, yoga or anything else. For the benefits of exercises one also have to think about synchronization of brainwaves (repetitive movement), and gene methylation, beside the obvious, increase material transport over the tissues. There is a reason why those who achieved a degree in physical strength or muscular appearance after a long while of laziness get their muscles/previous levels quicker than those who just started the journey from what would be the same level/appearance from the random observer...

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High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this

Re: High Liver Enzymes (supporting liver and removing toxins) CS can I kindly get your thoughts on this