Omega 6 vs Omega 3 ratio question.

Hi, it seemed that a good ratio for Omega 6 vs 3 intake is 2:1.
My questions to those out there are
1. How would I keep track of my intake of Omega 6 vs Omega 3? Do I count consumption like one would count calories?

2. Is there such a thing as eating too much Omega 3?

Thanks

Sam

slowbutspeeding - It's hard to consume too much Omega-3, but it is possible to over do it.

One example is using a very high amount of Flax oil for a long period of time. Omega-6 is so ubiquitous in the diet, it's really hard to avoid, so taking plenty of fish oil, krill, clo isn't going to present any risk.

Bumping an old thread.

Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids have opposing physiological effects: omega-6 fatty acids are metabolized into pro-inflammatory cytokines, whereas omega-3s generally have an anti-inflammatory effect. Considering the major inflammatory component of MPB, I feel like optimizing dietary omega6-3 ratio is an important part of anyone's regimen.

I frequently use the database of nutritional information that's available on nutritiondata.self.com to monitor my ratio. I've been eating a lot of fish (mainly salmon) to get my omega 3s, and I can usually get a n6-n3 ratio of about 3:1. It's hard to achieve a better ratio because of the abundance of omega 6 in so many foods.

How have you guys been maintaining a good ratio? I'm worried that eating so much fish will contribute to accumulation of heavy metals like mercury. But there really are no other excellent sources of omega 3. I've been taking 3-4 krill oil capsules per day (from Schiff), each of which offers about 180 mg of EFA/DHA. That adds up to 540-720 mg, plus about 2500 mg from the fish, and maybe about 200 mg from the large amounts of leafy green vegetables I eat daily. That gives a total of 3.5 g omega 3 fatty acids.

Without much effort though I can upwards of 10 g of omega-6s daily. It doesn't help that most commercially available meat (beef, chicken, pork) is raised on diets which causes a high n6-n3 ratio. Thus I avoid these meats as much as I can. Vegetable oils will also really screw up your ratio since a tablespoon of any vegetable oil contains about 12,000 pounds of omega 6.

Side note: Would eating salmon along with a couple chlorella tablets help in prevent the absorption of mercury? I hope someone knowledgeable about heavy metal absorption and toxicity would shed some light on this possibility.

mphatesmpb - Mercury in fish is generally neutralized by selenium contained in it. Krill has virtually no mercury in it.

Eating fish is much preferable to taking Omega-3 fish oil.

Read this thread below:

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t4431-new-paradigm-shift-peo-s-not-efa-s

I agree with Immortal 100%.

Krill oil is great, and eating lightly cooked fish is great too - and yes it may have some metals in it, but unless you are eating a lot of bottom feeders (something with a shell) you are likely getting enough decent amino acids to be able to successfully handle the metals and conjugate them in the detox pathway in the liver responsible for clearing heavy metals, so as long as your Cytochrome P450 system is working well *and* at about the same rate as Phase II conjugation pathways (P450 runs off Vitamin C basically and other anti oxidants - I recommend Mg Ascorbate, NOW powder, as well Ascrobyl Palmitate (fat soluble Vit c and Toco 8 or total E, as well as R ALA, and Zn Cu and Selenium) and decent fibre - then any additonal metals from the fish will not likely bother you. Just do not cook them in oil if you want regrowth IMHO. Steam or poach.

Fish is a great way to go if you want to eat protein and avoid eitr meat or nuts seeds combinations...

Still, best IMHO to eat a good variety and not just one thing as each food you digest requires beacoup de enzymes to burn it up - so VARIETY, VARIETY, VARIETY is always good....

Basic rule of thumb is lots of multi coloured organic vegetables, regular variety of wild fish, and for meat - wild game...

M

Mastery,

You wrote a challenging response. Having just recently started researching heavy metal toxification, I'll have to do some more reading on important issues like intestinal absorption, distribution of the metals to the various organs/tissues, and excretion mechanisms employed by the liver and kidneys.

I am guessing that you recommend lightly cooked fish because the polyunsaturated fatty acids in fish are susceptible to lipid peroxidation when exposed to heat. Are there any other reasons? I've tried eating raw fish, but it's not quite palatable. Not to mention the issue of parasites. At this point I just cook the fish in a pan with low, dry heat. And I remove the fish while a lot of the moisture is still retained (just barely cooked).

What do you make of the differences between farm-raised and wild-caught fish (salmon in particular)? According to nutritiondata.self.com, farm-raised Atlantic salmon is actually a pro-inflammatory food despite having a great n6-n3 ratio. I did some further research and learned that nutritiondata classifies farm-raised salmon as pro-inflammatory because of high amounts of arachidonic acid (an omega 6 fatty acid) found in the fish. According to wikipedia, arachidonic acid is pro-inflammatory, but here is the paradox: it's mainly involved in the inflammation of muscle tissue that precedes strengthening and growth of the muscle. In fact high intakes of arachidonic acid caused lower levels of IL-1 and IL-6, which are cytokines we want to see lowered from the hair loss point of view. Before reading up on this stuff, I was under the simplistic impression that omega-6 and omega-3 have strictly opposing physiological functions - that all omega-6s are pro-inflammatory and all omega-3s are anti-inflammatory. Biology is not clearly not that simple. Furthermore I realized that you can't even say something like "all inflammation is bad."

-MP

Omega-6's are pro-inflammatory when they are oxidized (which is the majority of processed foods).

However, the opposite is true if the Omega-6's are unadulterated.

CS,

I thought that polyunsaturated fatty acids are prone to oxidation during digestion. This is from the article I posted in the thread "Article About Vegetable Oils."

What’s wrong with vegetable oils? The main problem is that polyunsaturated oils contain long-chain fatty acids, which are extremely fragile and unstable. “The unsaturated oils in some cooked foods become rancid in just a few hours even when refrigerated,” says Peat, “and that’s responsible for the stale taste of leftover foods. Eating slightly stale food with polyunsaturated oils isn’t more harmful than eating the same oils when fresh, since the oils will oxidize at a much higher rate once they are in the body. As soon as a polyunsaturated vegetable oil enters the body, it is exposed to temperatures high enough to cause its toxic decomposition, especially when combined with a continuous supply of oxygen and catalysts such as iron.”

Here's the link to the whole article: http://www.thescreamonline.com/essays/essays5-1/vegoil.html

mphatesmpb - The devil is in the details. The article probably fails to distinguish the origin the polyunsaturates. For example, if they are sourced from a typical store bought source, such as Canola, generic vegetable oil, etc. they are already damaged because during the processing, leaves them with trans-isomers. This processing renders them dangerous even before they are eaten (cooked or not).

On the other hand, if these oils are from unrefined sources (raw nuts, seeds or other unprocessed food), they are okay.

Thanks CS for your reply.

I've been eating oatmeal every morning. I can think of two disadvantages in eating this food:
(1) it's a grain, which means it causes an increase in insulin, and
(2) it's a potent source of omega 6 fatty acids. I've read though that it's a great source of GLA, which is actually an anti-inflammatory omega 6 fatty acid.

I just thought of something though: if oatmeal is high in PUFAs, then doesn't heating it up in the microwave cause oxidation of the omega 6s? Should I eat the oats raw (just like in muesli)?

mphatesmpb - For the most part, raw products will deliver most of the Omega-6 without a doubt. (Seeds, nuts for example).

Microwaves have so many problems, the Germans, Swiss and Russians have tested to them to find many serious problems. Fats and proteins are damaged by the microwave.

What if I take both Krill oil and GLA (from Borage oil) will this upset the balance by giving me too much omega 6 ?

teacup - For about a decade everyone was confused about Omega-6, thinking we took in too much...it turns out, it was only too much of the processed, oxidized form.

Also, most forms of Omega-6 are bad (when in their processed form).

Most people do not consume enough unadulterated (raw, free-of processing forms of Omega-6), so consume as much as you want in this form. Sources such as pumpkin seeds, sunflower, etc.

Over doing it on the GLA form such as Primrose or Borage should be in caution, that said, one can also increase the LA content higher also.

For about a decade everyone was confused about Omega-6, thinking we took in too much...it turns out, it was only too much of the processed, oxidized form.

Also, most forms of Omega-6 are bad (when in their processed form).

Most people do not consume enough unadulterated (raw, free-of processing forms of Omega-6), so consume as much as you want in this form. Sources such as pumpkin seeds, sunflower, etc.

Over doing it on the GLA form such as Primrose or Borage should be in caution, that said, one can also increase the LA content higher also.

I'm currently reading through the wikipedia article on eicosanoids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eicosanoids. Since the enzymatic pathways which metabolize EFAs are completely internal to the body, it seems like the only thing that governs the pro-inflammatory/inflammatory balance is the net amount of omega-3 and omega-6 in your diet.

I understand that linoleic acid is metabolized in a linear fashion (LA --> GLA --> DGLA --> AA) through oxidation, but if you are consuming tons of unoxidized omega-6 fatty acids (LA), then the enzymes responsible for EFA metabolism would be occupied oxidizing the omega-6s instead of omega-3s. And at the end of the day your body would have more pro-inflammatory eicosanoids.

My most recent (and maybe silly) idea is to eat foods in an order that gives omega-3s enough of a "head start" in the GI. So I eat a bunch of food containing ALA (broccoli, flaxseed) right before my oatmeal, which contains tons of omega-6s. The idea is that by the time the omega-6s reach the enzymes which metabolize EFAs, the enzymes will already be busy processing omega-3s. lol

-MP