Too much Antioxidants?

I was wondering if such a thing is possible. I recently read that some free radicals were necessary... I don't believe I can post up links yet but here is a quote that got me thinking:

"The likely explanation is that free radicals aren’t as evil as advertised. (In fact, people need them to kill bacteria and eliminate new cancer cells.) And when people take large doses of antioxidants in the form of supplemental vitamins, the balance between free radical production and destruction might tip too much in one direction, causing an unnatural state where the immune system is less able to kill harmful invaders. Researchers call this the antioxidant paradox. "

Astaxanthin and Ecklona Cava are extremely powerful, perhaps even too powerful? I was wondering if someone more knowledgeable could chime in. This article was referencing pills with mega doses of antioxidants... but with the two antioxidants I mentioned, they're so many times more powerful that small amounts can amount to a lot.

antioxidant also cause a decrease in ferritin and thus haeomoglobin which are prime pillars for hair growth.

YAER wrote:antioxidant also cause a decrease in ferritin and thus haeomoglobin which are prime pillars for hair growth.

Interesting. It seems the more I learn about hair growth the more confused I get. The only thing I'm doing for my hair now is Nizoral, Minox and Emu Oil because I'm just trapped in indecision. Literally this morning I thought antioxidants were key, astaxanthin reduces dht, ecklona cava reduces dht, and then this evening I'm debating whether the antioxidants in my Orange Triad multi vitamin are overkill in itself without even adding those two. But, would love more info if anyone else has anything to add.

Oxidation is where one molecule steals an electron from another molecule. The thief is said to be "reduced" and the victim has become "oxidized." These are called Redox reactions. Once the molecule has its electron stolen it may be useless, or it may steal someone else's.

So the theory of disease, aging, and antioxidants is that there is a deficiency of electrons in the body. And if we can stop this chain reaction of stealing electrons then we can live much longer.

As you pointed out, there are many natural processes in the body that occur via redox reactions. One of them is ATP synthesis. Basically, the body uses redox reactions to transfer electrons around.

I don't know too many of the details, but the antioxidant theory is a pretty childish one. While I'm still not bashing antioxidants in general, to think that you are going to live like 20% longer because you ate a bunch of antioxidant pills is ridiculous.

With that said, I think enzymes are going to become more popular in the fight against aging/disease/free radicals.


In the liver there is an enzyme called catalase. It decomposes H2O2 (an oxidant) to >>>> H2O + O2. In fact, catalase can decompose over 1,000,000 H2O2 molecules every second. Take a piece of liver and put it in a cup of H2O2. It will bubble vigorously, which is all the oxygen being released.

The catalase is not used up in the process and does not become an oxidant itself. Now compare that to vitamin E. One Vitamin E can neutralize one free radical, then it's toast.

So now the question is how many free radicals does the body produce every day? 10? 20? 100,000,000? Actually each individual cell produces millions of free radicals every day. I think your vitamin E is in a little over its head.

NDW wrote:With that said, I think enzymes are going to become more popular in the fight against aging/disease/free radicals.


In the liver there is an enzyme called catalase. It decomposes H2O2 (an oxidant) to >>>> H2O + O2. In fact, catalase can decompose over 1,000,000 H2O2 molecules every second. Take a piece of liver and put it in a cup of H2O2. It will bubble vigorously, which is all the oxygen being released.

The catalase is not used up in the process and does not become an oxidant itself. Now compare that to vitamin E. One Vitamin E can neutralize one free radical, then it's toast.

So now the question is how many free radicals does the body produce every day? 10? 20? 100,000,000?  Actually each individual cell produces millions of free radicals every day. I think your vitamin E is in a little over its head.

True that. Antioxidants however do their job just good. But their work is many times limited on protection only. If this is enough for other healing mechanisms to take place meanwhile, this is whole another story. If one is really lacking his antioxidants due being prolonged period in the stressful state, the effect of loading your body with antioxidants just show the positive effects right afterwards. And for me, Vit C, Vit E are very passive substances i put in the body for preventing undesired things to happen while doing more aggressive things on my body...

The way CS chose his regimen is that no antioxidant is doing protection only. Take ALA, krill, curcumin/resveratrol, EC for example. But agree with you 100%, there are many different ways to boost natural antioxidant production and this is what one should be after in the long term...

There are some sites who fear monger a little about this topic....so just to clarify (as always, the devil is in the details).

Usually the real concern over antioxidants is to use an excessive amount of a direct antioxidant. Let's say vitamin E. Note, however that higher doses of vitamin C become a pro-oxidant (not a bad thing in this case), but should be limited during exercise.

Oxidation and Reduction are both important. Somethings that cause oxidation are things like exercise. Where that can go wrong is if one takes enough of the basic type of antioxidant, such as C or E just before or after this exercise. This is when this is not advised.

However, plant based antioxidants are very different. It is necessary to understand that greater production of antioxidant enzymes will be generated after exercise, which could be thwarted by taking C or E (direct antioxidants during that process).

In a plant based antioxidant, it actually enhances the exercise benefit, recovery and antioxidant enzyme production potential. Plant based antioxidants work primarily indirectly and also through modulation. They can switch genes (epigentically on or off).

Here are some examples:

Does Ecklonia Cava offer any exercising benefits?

Supplementation with ecklonia cava has been shown to increase the amount of time that one may exercise until muscle exhaustion (2.39 min) as compared with the placebo. This result was accompanied by a 6.5% higher mean VO(2max) in the ecklonia cava group. The blood glucose level in the ecklonia cava group at 3 minutes post-exhaustive exercise was significantly higher than that of the placebo group (+ 9.9%). In addition, the post-exercise blood lactate levels in the ecklonia cava group showed a decreasing trend as compared with placebo. Based on these results, it is speculated that the supplementation of ecklonia cava may have contributed to enhanced oxidation of glucose, and less production of lactate during intense exercise. This may be due to ecklonia cava's free-radical scavenging and pro-circulatory activities.

Does Antioxidant Boost offer exercise benefits?

Sulforaphane has been shown in mice to provide a significant increase in nuclear erythroid 2 p45-related factor 2 expression, and correlated with a significant increase in total antioxidant capacity and a decrease in plasma lactate dehydrogenase and creatine phosphokinase activities under conditions of exhaustive exercise. In layman's terms, sulforaphane serves as an indirect antioxidant in skeletal muscle, and protects skeletal muscle against damage during exhaustive exercise.

Curcumin has been shown to protect against exercise induced muscle damage.

Research on mice has demonstrated that trans-resveratrol improved exercise performance by 100%. Human studies suggest that trans-resveratrol would also be beneficial with respect to exercise performance, which may be due to a boost in mitochondrial function.

Does Stabilized R-Lipic Acid offer any exercise benefits?

The combination of exercise training, and antioxidant treatment using lipoic acid in an animal model of obesity-associated insulin resistance, has demonstrated a unique interactive effect that was shown to result in a greater improvement in insulin action on skeletal muscle glucose transport than either intervention individually. Moreover, this interactive effect of exercise training and lipoic acid is due in part to improvements in IRS-1-dependent insulin signaling. This research highlights the effectiveness of combining endurance exercise training along with antioxidants in beneficially modulating the molecular defects in insulin action observed in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.

I've been using liposomal curcuma, boswellia serrata, garlic extract, omega 3, b12 supplement and IP6 supplement.

A week ago i have maid blood test for thyroid and other blood parameters and found out that have little anemia, result: 4.39 where the minimum was 4.5.

also MCH (hemoglobin presence) was a little higher than the upper limits. Do you think that this kind of supplements could be the cause of my little anemia? I think that the main factor could be the IP6 supplement cause it chelates very well iron but i'm unsure of my interpretation, also curcuma is a good iron chelator so the liposomal one enter the better into the blood sistem. Sadly i haven't done ferritin and transferrin exams.

What do you think about my condition?
Any help is appreciate.

Unless you are female, it is not expected...unless there is either a sulfur problem (lack of) or a bleeding ulcer. Would need to look at your ferritin level to know your capacity to store iron.

IP6 is a well known chelator of iron, however it has been purported to simply reduce pathogenic access to it.

CausticSymmetry wrote:Unless you are female, it is not expected...unless there is either a sulfur problem (lack of) or a bleeding ulcer. Would need to look at your ferritin level to know your capacity to store iron.

IP6 is a well known chelator of iron, however it has been purported to simply reduce pathogenic access to it.

Thank you CS for your help.

I will wait about one month and then repeat the exams with also ferritin analysis.

@abetz85

Do you have any metal fillings or have them?

There are many different types of anemia and would considering researching porphyria in hope you find some answers. I've heard anecdotes of how things (different types of anemia) resolved after porphyria or methylation was addressed with supplementation.

If feel good on b12 (methylcobalmin is much prefered), you might want to check your digestion tract with stomach and gut infections. Even if there is non genetic damage, overpopulation of things as giardia, candida, and many others are possible that make problems with absorbtion of this very essential nutrient. There is also unique relationship between B12 and mercury. You can find more on the link below. Active B12 is sure the best and the first option when addresing methylation.

http://www.ever.ch/PDF/B12_Engl.pdf

For iron, i'd also do a few blood donations (once a month or every 3 weeks, to quickly address some things as accumulated metals), and measure things afterwards. But yes, ferritin levels are more of indicator here... Fe deficiency is probably the easiest deficiency for a man to correct if deficient.  Eating a red meat stake with drinking some vit C afterwards dramatically increase its absorption. But i doubt this would be the case.

Beebrox wrote:@abetz85

Do you have any metal fillings or have them?

There are many different types of anemia and would considering researching porphyria in hope you find some answers. I've heard anecdotes of how things (different types of anemia) resolved after porphyria or methylation was addressed with supplementation.

If feel good on b12 (methylcobalmin is much prefered), you might want to check your digestion tract with stomach and gut infections. Even if there is non genetic damage, overpopulation of things as giardia, candida, and many others are possible that make problems with absorbtion of this very essential nutrient. There is also unique relationship between B12 and mercury. You can find more on the link below. Active B12 is sure the best and the first option when addresing methylation.

http://www.ever.ch/PDF/B12_Engl.pdf

For iron, i'd also do a few blood donations (once a month or every 3 weeks, to quickly address some things as accumulated metals), and measure things afterwards. But yes, ferritin levels are more of indicator here... Fe deficiency is probably the easiest deficiency for a man to correct if deficient.  Eating a red meat stake with drinking some vit C afterwards dramatically increase its absorption. But i doubt this would be the case.

Thank you Beebrox about vitamin b12 i had also that test done with the others and with a maximum of about 400 i resulted above 700!!! With a single pill of maxi hair each day for about 4 month (when it was supposed to eat 4 of them by their indication on the bottle). So i suppose i don't have problems with overpopulation of patogens in my gut.