Cutler Progress Log / Help Thread

[diffuse]

So I finally started the Cutler protocol last week after putting it off 2 ½ years since amalgam removal. Was afraid of making things worse but due to continued declining health I feel I need to tackle mercury head on. Thought I might feel bad on-round but actually I felt fine. Was going to wait until I'd done a few rounds to post a log but something came up.

The last couple of days, 5-6 days after the round, some of my old original symptoms have resurfaced, primarily mental ones (deep sadness, anger, vague thoughts of suicide). My hair looks really crap too. I'm wondering what's happened to cause this delayed reaction and whether I should delay my next round until I've dealt with it. Was originally planning to start another tomorrow. I'll take a bunch of humifulvate and see how I feel in the morning.

[<<<]

I don't know if you have, but you could ask on the Frequent Dose Chelation group if anyone has experienced similar. I've read about "redistribution" symptoms in the days after a round. Possibly wherever the mercury is stopping off is taking a few days to start displaying symptoms. I'm no expert though.

There may be some suggestions in Cutler's book, FDC group etc. for supplements to ease the symptoms if they persist.

No need to rush into anything though; chelation is a long game.

[moby]

That's probably the redistribution effect. I'm on cutler protocol too although I'm only taking DMSA at the moment to chelate all the extracellular mercury/lead before adding ALA to pull out the remaining metals from brain, organs, etc. ALA can sometimes pull the metals into the blood after round ends so this is where DMSA would be helpful to remove those metals and reduce side effects post-round.

Are you taking any DMSA?

[diffuse]

Well I felt better this morning so I went ahead with round 2. I'm going to assume this was some post-round redistribution which I just didn't notice at first and caught me off-guard. I will go heavier on the “mopping-up” supplements this time to clear the mercury stirred up. I think I relaxed too much since I felt fine during the round. If the same thing happens again I might have to reassess my approach a bit, maybe reduce dosages.

I haven't actually read the book since it is expensive and the essential information can be found online. Compared to some people the reaction I had wasn't that severe but mercury can really distort your thinking and make you negative and paranoid. The emotions feel real at the time even when you know that they are mercury symptoms. I don't think true depression fades just because you pop a few humifulvate or similar.

I've read DMSA can be quite harsh so I'm doing ALA only and using other things to help with metal removal. I realise ALA doesn't chelate lead but I'm not sure I have major issues with lead. Mercury in brain etc is my main target right now.

[moby]

How do you know that you have mercury and not lead? I remember CS mentioning that lead is actually more harmful to hair than mercury.

[diffuse]

For mercury there is my history with amalgam fillings and also the correlation between past events e.g. dental work and worsening of the mental symptoms mentioned in my first post. It took many years to figure out the connection but those are now well-known to me as mercury symptoms. So for example the way I felt yesterday (sadness etc) is similar to how I felt 3 years ago when I had a filling drilled out, or during periods of my adolescence (when the fillings went in) or how I would probably feel next week if I just stopped my ALA round and didn't take any support supplements. It would be a miracle if I didn't have mercury stored in my organs.

As for lead I can't rule it out, I just have no particular reason to suspect it. I mean I'll probably have some but I can't think why I'd have any more than the average person.

[Duketronix]

You might not "need" to have more than average. You could just react more than average to a "normal" amount.

[manofmanytrades]

I did probably 20 rounds of the cutler protocol three years ago after completing a home-ordered hair mineral test that showed some elevated lead with copper levels out of whack. Even with really aggressive ala and dmsa chelation I noticed some subtle changes but nothing spectacular with health or hair. Previously I had tried a few bottles of humifulvate and clays as well. I sort of forgot about it after that until I went to see a well known holistic doc that works a lot with chelation. Following urine challenge test I had lead levels 6-7 times higher than normal with elevated mercury too. Using the prescribed EDTA suppositories for several months, retested urine challenge with the same results. Four months more at an increased usage rate and my circulation and memory and hair improvement have been PHENOMENAL. My understanding is that it really takes years of even the best chelation protocols to get everything out. Ive read both of cutlers books and realize that he is very against urine challenge tests and edta, but IMO humifulvate and possibly even the cutler protocol might not be enough, especially if you have a lot of metals it could take 20 years to get everything out. My dr's prescribed urine challenge tests were followed with colonics and sauna which I think probably negated the negative effects cutler warns about urine test redistribution. Also, edta tends to strip all minerals from the body so I also take a high quality liquid mineral.

Underlying point: just because you don't know where you would have gotten a heavy metal load doesn't mean you don't have it...I have no idea where I got all my lead from, but it was high. And you might want to look into other chelation options if what you're doing isn't getting results. Find a good holistic dr that specializes in chelation, because you want to be aggressive but its also easy to go too fast. A good doc will pace your efforts, and maybe use other treatment options, such as microsilica or other binders. And the testing is important even though it costs. You want to know what you're dealing with.

[moby]

All it takes is one heavy metal such as mercury to screw up the gut and the entire methylation system which then prevents excretion of other heavy elements. Mercury makes someone more prone to more mercury and lead and so on and on. It's a vicious cycle.

manofmanytrades, what was your load before it was found to be 6-7 higher than normal. There is no way cutler protocol did absolutely nothing. Also, 20 rounds isn't that many especially if you're on low dose. EDTA is actually one of the most dangerous chelators and DMSA is actually more effect so you must be doing something wrong. I have read nothing but good things regarding DMSA and I'm taking 125mg doses, 8 times a day so that's almost 1000mg daily. Plenty of people have reversed autism with this protocol so that's encouraging.

[manofmanytrades]

The load before I started the cutler protocol was determined by hair test that I bought myself, where I was in a higher percentile but not the extreme ranges. Several years later I saw Dr. Klinghardt who had urine challenge tests done so I don't believe the results are directly comparable...different tests where lead was elevated in both, but the value was significantly more elevated in the latter, the 6-7 times normal being what they told me. Its true there are plenty of online success stories with cutler, and I know I probably didn't do it long enough to see results and had concurrent infections I wasn't dealing with that might have masked the improvement.  Klinghardt put me on the EDTA which surprised me since he's a very forward thinking holistic doc, though he put me on lots of binders with it as well.  EDTA and DMSA both are good for lead, so Im not sure what his reasoning was behind it.  My understanding is that different locations and levels of metals require different agents so when I see him again I expect the protocol will be updated.  I had no idea that such small amounts of metals could cause so many problems but it's no joke.

[moby]

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t3591-edta-for-hair-loss

Apparently EDTA is very effective at busting calcification and cleaning out arteries. It also removes iron which some are suspecting here that excess iron could be a major problem for hair, women can't get excess iron so maybe that's why they aren't losing hair?
Less calcium, less iron this is a win win for hair and would explain your spectacular results. More people should try taking it. I'll probably start taking it in a couple months after I'm done with DMSA

[<<<]

I can't handle the neutrophil suppression from DMSA causing a yeast flare. I had no idea eye sockets could feel so itchy. It should make things easier if you can tolerate it though.

DMSA is supposed to be better for lead than EDTA. For those that can't tolerate DMSA I have heard it recommended to wait until mercury is lower before trying EDTA, but can't remember why. It might just be because EDTA causes zinc depletion, and mercury toxic people need plenty of zinc.

Interesting post by Cutler under the 'Depression' heading: http://onibasu.com/wiki/Anxiety%2C_ADHD%2C_ADD%2C_ODD%2C_OCD%2C_Depression

[moby]

EDTA can redistribute mercury once again so that's why it's best to get rid of mercury first before trying EDTA for chelation.
And EDTA is not just for lead, the main benefit with it would be the breakup of calcium deposits where they shouldn't be like in balding places. DMSA has no effect on calcium.

[diffuse]

Interesting posts, and I accept that what I'm doing might not be enough, it's just my starting point. However, it is a proven method (as alternative health goes) of removing a toxic substance I know I definitely had a lot of exposure to. I don't know of any good chelation docs in my area unfortunately. I did travel to see a naturopath a few times and he said my second biggest metal issue was cadmium. However, his methods were a bit questionable so I'm not sure I can rely on that information.

Obviously I will have to go to plan B if the current one doesn't get results. I'm certainly not against lowering whatever lead levels I have provided it can be done safely. I couldn't find much discussion of EDTA on the site but CS talks about it in this old post (not sure if it reflects his current opinion): http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/prev?from_id=2337193

There's also iodine, seemingly a powerful nutrient but also one that has to be used very carefully, especially in a person with mercury problems. One of my hopes is that after X rounds of Cutler I will be more tolerant of high dose iodine. I tried it some time ago and my response, one I've also read from others, was that I felt much better and then much, much worse. I suspect these other people also had metal problems. So I'm wary but I also seen enough to suggest it could be very important if I could tolerate it. The action and potential benefits are quite different to ALA.

Regarding the one metal screwing up the system, I was actually very resistant to health issues right up until the drilled filling I mentioned. The vapour resulting from this is far more toxic than the slow trickle you typically get from amalgams. I believe there was a period afterwards, months, where my defences were compromised and I seemed to lose that carefree youthful resistance I had. My guess is that it's largely due to increased body burden of mercury but possibly also, as implied, whatever other crap happened when my defences were down. The result is that I have since been aging at an accelerated rate.

[diffuse]

So I ran into a problem, possibly my own fault. Round 2,3 and 4 went ok, although as someone who struggles with sleep patterns I do not enjoy waking in the middle of the night. Tried to get clever and do a double round (6 days) and stopped on day 5 due to pain in right abdomen, a reoccurrence of a prior problem. Still felt fine on-round up until that point so not quite sure what happened but obviously I can't ignore a warning like that.

Anyway I'm pretty annoyed and it looks like my immediate future is going to be focused on the new (old) liver and gallbladder issues so this thread won't have much progress for a while. I hope to return as soon as I can. For the record I hadn't seen any noticeable changes in the first 4-5 rounds.

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