Papilla power users check in here

I think that anyone that is not not growing a brand new, full head of hair after 3, 4,5 or 6 months, of applying the ridiculous method that PP suggests, should just quit. Why not? You haven't grown a new head of hair and you've been doing exactly what he recommends, right? so why wouldn't you.? Just quit. Then, you can bellow at the top of your your lungs, to the whole world, that the Papilla Power method is useless, worthless and doesn't work.
You've broken some hair, some hair has fallen out and, boo hoo, you haven't grown a new head of hair. Brushing is better, lots of things are better and your hair doesn't break. So quit. PP told me exactly that, a long time ago. Most people will quit, long before they ever had a chance. After all, y'all know better, right?



ote="boogv510"]the reason why I stop doing papi method was because it causes a lot of hair breakage...Brushing is much better and it doesn't cause your hair to break.[/quote]

I'm doing the Margo Method which I believe is a similar method.

The thing that I notice and have mentioned before is that my healthy hair (sides, top and crown) are not breaking or shedding from doing the method. And I do it twice a day! Where my hair is thinning that's where it's breaking (frontal and temples). But, after six months of applying the method, the breakage is not as intense as in the beginning. Also, I have grown some new hair in the temple and frontal area that are new and don't break!

I know this method works (for me at least).

The thought has crossed my mind to quit many times due to the breakage, but then all it takes is for me to look closely in the mirror and see new hair to know it's working. Which also builds motivation to continue the method. The first 3-4 months were the most difficult for me.

It not only works for me, look at this review on Amazon posted in 2003: Margo Review

It's surreal to see hair growing back, especially when I had the belief that baldness is genetic and once you go bald you can't grow your hair back. I know that's bullcrap and I have disproven it for myself.

Do I have pictures? Yes. However, I've only been on this for a short while (6 months). I do have regrowth, but I don't think my pictures are going to convince that many people at this stage. I continue to take photos and will post them once I have sufficient proof that will be hard to dispute (i.e, different lighting, etc...). I have proof for myself that this works, and that's enough for me.

Yep, everything while my hair is dry.

I do massage by hand at the perimeters of the scalp along the muscles that strap the galea, and then also massage at the top of the head and front .. does it work? My hair is better than it has been for years - when I get stressed I can feel my forehead tightens up and the result is weak feeling in frontal hair and possible itching after awhile. The massage clears it up! It helps ALOT. I also use topical kefir and rosemary/ginger water extract topical.

boog 510 said:
Hows your hair doing, seeing any regrowth? I think you started the same time I did

boog, it's doing pretty good. Not as good as it could be b/c diet is a component and my diet has kind of gone to shite. But I'm maintaining and my shedding has not gone up, and after some renewed dedication with the massage and violet ray (I had slacked off a little), am seeing some renewed improvement. I'm still optimistic that I'll be able to eventually grow it back to where I want it. gpb2000 was right, however, when he said the manual methods are not for the faint of heart and that most won't have the dedication it takes to stick with them for the time it takes for them to work. I'm dedicated and yet still I have to fight the occasional bout of ennui. Manuals can be a little bit of trouble.

wildman said:
I think that anyone that is not not growing a brand new, full head of hair after 3, 4,5 or 6 months, of applying the ridiculous method that PP suggests, should just quit. Why not? You haven't grown a new head of hair and you've been doing exactly what he recommends, right? so why wouldn't you.? Just quit. Then, you can bellow at the top of your your lungs, to the whole world, that the Papilla Power method is useless, worthless and doesn't work. You've broken some hair, some hair has fallen out and, boo hoo, you haven't grown a new head of hair. Brushing is better, lots of things are better and your hair doesn't break. So quit. PP told me exactly that, a long time ago. Most people will quit, long before they ever had a chance. After all, y'all know better, right?

Um, I'm confused. You're apparently trying to be wittily facetious but instead what you said makes absolutely no sense. Are you slamming manual methods or are you slamming those who quit the Papi method? For myself, I never said that Papilla/Margo didn't work, only that I found it caused tangling, which caused breakage when I attempt to detangle. Someone with short hair probably will have better luck with it.

Also, most of us who quit Papi are doing other manuals. I started scritching instead of Papi, and I still brush, do massage, and use a violet ray (4 manual techniques).

And if you truly do think people should quit trying (anything or everything) after 3 - 6 months because efforts have not yielded full results, you're in for a lifetime of disappointment, regardless of whether it's hair regrowth or whatever. I feel for ya. Same to you, LoT.

anthonyspencer54 said:
I'm still confused why everyone's going to all the trouble to use these methods to stimulate blood flow when it seems a dermaroller would do the job pretty efficiently, in less time, and could be combined with topicals and enhance their effectiveness.

If I had to guess, I'd say its because everyone keeps finding new ways to do the same exact thing because ultimately it isn't really working for anyone..

Not so. The methods are showing results for me. Do you guys have selective reading or something? There's plenty of anecdotes about the manual methods working. I've said plenty of times in different threads that these methods work for me and even posted pictures, which were not convincing to some, but IMO they showed improvement nonetheless. Possibly because the users of manual methods don't feel the need to repeat ourselves ad nauseam every time the thread comes up, the impression is that these methods don't yield results. Papi is not a technique for me (tangling and breakage), but the blood flow theory IMHO has great merit and I wouldn't stop doing manuals for anything at this point. We won't know the full extent of improvement for another year or two, though. I plan to stick with it for at least another year, and if you're still around, you can watch for my results. I'll be honest and forthcoming, even if things don't turn out the way I hope.

As for dermaroller...I bought a bunch of those about 5-6 years ago for my face. I tried them on my scalp, too. Two big problems.

1) TANGLING. If your hair is longer than an inch, a dermaroller will "roll up" (tangle") in your hair. No way around it. I simply could not get it to roll without tangling. And if it does tangle, you will wind up yanking out some of those precious hairs you're trying to grow. However, if you shave your head, the dermaroller might be for you. But then there's...

2) PAIN. I think the dermaroller has merit both as a wrinkle corrector and a hair growth inducer, but IMHO it's too damn painful to pursue habitually or for any forseeable length of time. I even went so far as to get some lidocaine numbing gel through the mail, but then was worried about puncturing my skin with that stuff all over my face (what's in it? Was I letting toxins in through the best protective physiological barrier available to me? Etc.) I did it, but I didn't like it and the alcohol based lidocaine gel dried my skin out.

Best rolls I had were when I was able to get a hold of some Lortabs (good times! ), but I couldn't get my doctor to prescribe for that purpose and supply is iffy. Lortabs and such also tend to make a lot of us slaphappy, and slaphappy is not something you want to be with a 1.5mm dermaroller anywhere on your skin. So I just gave up.

If I had to speculate I would say that pain is probably the biggest reason why dermarolling has not progressed beyond a fad with a very small segment of the hair and skincare fanatic crowd.

whodathunkit said:
For myself, I never said that Papilla/Margo didn't work, only that I found it caused tangling, which caused breakage when I attempt to detangle. Someone with short hair probably will have better luck with it.

That's exactly what happen to me! My hair was roughly 2-3 inches and it still manage to tangle which then cause breakage..

i did the pp method for more then 10 months.

it seemed to stimulate nw hair growth in the beginning but after a few months i had a massive shed,
then the same cycle started again. at the end, after more then 10 month, i lost a lot of hair without lasting effects of the stimulation.

for me i didn´t work.

Only brushing and manual methods. Manual methods for the last 2 months and brushing about 6.
From those months, only the first two weeks was amazing by giving to my hair a lot of boost and healthy look.
Then, after that, nothing special...but, before 2-3 weeks i notice a shedding which day after day getting worse and now my hair looks thin, less and hairline receded.
I'm really thinking to stop all this things...i have try many different techniques, and 4 different brushes too....Nothing seems to work.
I have a feeling that this turns to a traction alopecia or maybe it's too late for me (i'm 37, nw 3v)

Everyone should please remember that both Papi and Maliniak (the controversial guys who really got the manual methods going here) say you need to give it *about 2 years* to see full results.

This makes sense to me. Hormonal/genetic hairloss is marked by a shortened fall/regrowth cycle, anyway. Eventually the cycle shortens until the hair is gone...it falls out more quickly than it grows. So if you're kind of speeding up the fall/growth cycle with stimulation, you could end up with more hair loss if you quit the stimulation prematurely.

Another thing is that if you're not simultaneously addressing the underlying problem of whatever body chemistry is causing you to lose hair, I don't think any amount of stimulation is going to cause remarkable regrowth. It will cause a little, and your hair will look better for it, but unless circulation is only problem, it won't completely fix your loss.

I also think that these methods are something, like all the rest of what we do here (lifestyle/nutrition/supplements) or whatever is promoted out there (Rogaine, fin, other pharmaceutical options) that *can never be stopped*. You must always do them to keep whatever results you've gotten.

Maybe gpb2000 was right when he said most people won't have what it takes to see the manual methods through. It's a big commitment, for sure, and the reward of hair growth always comes slowly, no matter what route we choose to take. Adding more stuff you must do every day, on top of everything else, is also daunting. I plan to keep on doing it, myself...I think it feels good in addition to the benefits to my hair. But I can definitely see why others would want to give up. Wish it weren't so, but it's understandable.

I have been doing the PP method for 8 months and it is working for me. It has been stated many times by Papilla Power that it could take years to get full results, he said it took him 4 years to grow his hair back. If you read Margo's book when it was posted here several months ago, she also clearly states that it could take several years to get the full results. She says in the book that it could take as long to grow it all back as it took to lose it. That means if you decide to do this method, you will be doing it daily for many, many years. I agree that having longer hair would not be ideal for doing this method, but Papilla has long hair and his hair looks great. I started keeping my hair crew cut length a few years ago so I luckily don't have to worry about tangling and breakage. I can confidently say that vigorously rubbing my scalp does feel great and I have not lost any additional hair. The hardest time for me was the first few months, before I started to see results. I will never stop doing this, I just made it a part of my daily routine, like brushing, showering, brushing my teeth, etc. I will occasionally post my progress, and will post pictures once I have gotten the results I am expecting.

I Agree with whodathunkit that it takes time and with what GPB was saying. I remember thinking at the time that he was right when he made his departure.

With brushing I can't stress enough the need to not only address underlying problems but the only brush int he direction the hair grows! This made the difference for me in terms of shedding. You can get just as much stimulation but it won't damage the hair the same way.