Despite all this, still losing hair - advice??

Hi all,

I usually post on this board in the thread 'Coming off dutasteride'. - Unfortunately I haven't updated that recently because even WITH dutasteride I'm now having problems with frontal and crown thinning. So the question is, what the hell am I doing wrong? CS?

My current, extensive, regimen is as follows:

Topical:
Polysorbate 80 with biotin and niacin before shower
Nizoral shampoo every 2nd day
5% minoxidil with liquid saw palmetto / beta sit 2 x per day (Joe's Hairmuck)
Lasercomb (small, 5 laser, 2 or 3 times per week)

Oral
Dr Reddy's dutasteride 5 x per week
'Maxi Hair' multivits ED
Vitamin D3 1000iu ED
Fish oil 2000mg ED
Green Tea 400mg ED
ALA 200mg ED
ALCAR 250mg ED

I also go to the gym 4 times per week with a perfect BMI score and have a generally pretty good diet.

So what else can I do? I am so utterly sick and tired of worrying about my hair. Last night (yes, Saturday night) I found myself sitting at home alone trawling the hair transplant sites and just thinking 'what the hell am I doing?' I have been fighting hair loss for 18 years now, and feel that I am slowly but surely worrying my life away.

ataman, what have supplements like fish oil, green tea, dutasteride, and Maxi Hair done for your hair loss? What have topicals like Hairmuck and Nizoral done for you? Do you have any idea?

Yes, your regimen looks impressive on paper, but this "kitchen sink" approach may be doing more harm than good.

Pardon the musical interlude. As Chuck D from Public Enemy said:

"It might feel good
It might sound a little somethin
but damn the game if it don't mean nuttin
What is game? Who is game?
Where's the game in life behind the game behind the game
I got game, she's got game
We got game, they got game, he got game
It might feel good
It might sound a little somethin
but f**k the game if it ain't sayin nuttin"

You need to determine what has and has not been helpful. If it's not helping or you are unsure, then take it out of your regimen. You continue to add, when it may be better to subtract. And don't be afraid to get rid of the whole lot, take a couple of weeks off, and start over with new supplements like I did two years ago.

Hi mate,

Thanks for the reply (and the lyrics ).

I'm glad to see you're still doing well on the minimal, all natural regimen...its also encouraging for me, and I imagine a fair few others out there to see that.

You are right, I probably take stuff I don't need to. I started losing hair back in the bad old days where there was a choice of minox or....minox. No internet (or none in the wider community), no exchange of information, no nothing.

The result of this is that I have managed to hold onto most of my hair by grabbing the next big thing that came along and going with that. But you're right, I now have too much in there.

I was in a bit of a funk when I posted that. To be honest the thing that has helped me more than anything is CBT...I probably have less hair than a year ago, but worry far less about it than I used to . Psychology is really what its all about. If you're happy, you're happy, hwever much hair you have.

Anyway, bit of a ramble. Cheers for the input. I'm going to have a think, see what I can try cutting out.

CBT??

ataman - With dutasteride, it's difficult to say what effects it can have. I am concerned about the overall effects on suppressing these enzymes for such long periods.

Also, of what you're taking, it doesn't appear to have adequate coverage in terms of dosage.

To get a handle on your regimen and difficulties the following are things to consider:

When it comes right down to it, hair loss is caused from chronic inflammation and the root cause of the inflammation
could rise from a number of influences.

Note that bromide is found in dutasteride, which is thyroid suppressive. Anything that suppresses thyroid can increase oxidative stress, and inflammation which are quite often synonymous with each other.

Your diet can be quite influential on the outcome. I use Ecklonia cava as a primary supplement as it remains in the tissues for up to 14 hours, and it is both water and fat soluble.

In cases that are non-responsive to treatment, there are probably other things to consider when diet has been addressed, such as heavy metals. Properly chelating these metals can have a huge impact on your progress because these metals can not only suppress thyroid function, but also deplete hormone levels by excessive free radicals.

Moreover, it matters not how much DHT is suppressed if inflammation exists, the hair will react. Further, there is the psychosomatic element and if this is any factor at all, dutasteride will only make matters worse. The reason is that neurogenic inflammation has nothing to do with DHT and dutasteride increases the susceptibility to anxiety, depression, etc.

Here's some suggestions:

Try the Broda Barnes test to confirm any thyroid problems.
Up your Vitamin D3 to 5,000 per day or even a little more.
Consider taking metal chelation such as humifulvate or modified citrus pectin/sodium alginate.
Would recommend Ecklonia Cava (twice per day).
consider dropping dutasteride.
upon confirmation of thyroid (being low), supplement with iodine and selenium.

Diet wise, what do you generally eat?

Do you consume grains or alcohol?

Hi CS - Thanks as always for the comprehensive response.

I looked up the Broda Barnes test earlier and have just bought a cheap thermometer, so I will try that in the next day or two. It is strange to be hoping that my thyroid is underperforming.

I'd avoided Ecklonia Cava on the basis that its quite expensive and also the suspicion that it seemed a bit too good to be true...but I'm going to get some ordered. One question though...is it possible to take to many anti-inflammatories? I'm also a bit concerned what will happen if I take a break from something that powerful / it becomes unavailable.

My diet is pretty good, but had gone down-hill a bit over Christmas/New Year. My average diet just down is porridge or oatibix for breakfast; black coffee, scone, peanuts and apple mid-morning; soup, sandwich, apple and maybe a small bit of chocolate etc. for lunch; peanuts and apple mid-afternoon; stir-fry, fish, chicken, occasionally carryouts like chinese or indian for dinner. Alcohol is pretty minimal these days, just the odd blow-out every month or so and an occasional beer after work.

I've always thought that was an OK diet?

ataman - Just as long the anti-inflammatory isn't a drug, there's no risk in variety.

Another area I'll mention which really deserves a topic of its own is teeth and bone implants. Many of these are composed of titanium, which is not biologically inert. Actually according to some experts in blood chemistry testing, anything that attaches to bone will cause an autoimmune reaction, it's just a matter of how bad.

Ultimately, if we can identify each and every source of our inflammation, including silent inflammation, sometimes called micro-inflammation, hair loss can cease.

DHT is more of a consequence of free radicals, due to inflammation caused by "X."

ataman wrote:

My diet is pretty good, but had gone down-hill a bit over Christmas/New Year. My average diet just down is porridge or oatibix for breakfast; black coffee, scone, peanuts and apple mid-morning; soup, sandwich, apple and maybe a small bit of chocolate etc. for lunch; peanuts and apple mid-afternoon; stir-fry, fish, chicken, occasionally carryouts like chinese or indian for dinner. Alcohol is pretty minimal these days, just the odd blow-out every month or so and an occasional beer after work.

I've always thought that was an OK diet?

Hey ataman,

Consider dropping porridge/oatibix, peanuts (especially peanuts), chocolate, maybe stir fry, and possibly the Chinese and Indian. Rice is a safe substitute and can add coconut oil to it to help fill the void.

ataman wrote:...peanuts and apple mid-morning; soup, sandwich, apple and maybe a small bit of chocolate etc. for lunch; peanuts and apple mid-afternoon; stir-fry, fish, chicken, occasionally carryouts like chinese or indian for dinner. Alcohol is pretty minimal these days, just the odd blow-out every month or so and an occasional beer after work.

I must have chocolate (with my green tea). I love Indian and Chinese food too, and refuse to give them up under any circumstances.