Scalp massage has caused thinning/diffuse hairloss. Is this possible? Is the damage permanent?

I've been doing the Perfecthairhealth massage daily since December last year. Before I was nw2.5/nw3 with mild vertex thinning but a solid forlock area, now I'm nw3 with beginning of diffuse thinning all over the top (hair isn't thinner, but it's like I've lost a lot of density and can see more scalp when hair combed aside) and the receding hairline is moving inwards a bit due to lost minatiurized hairs around the edges. The only area that has thickened is my sides/temples.

The weird thing is that a couple months ago it looked like it was working, my hair was getting thicker, but now in the space of a month or less it's lost so much density and thinning. Yet over this past month I've been much more consistent and my scalp feels looser than ever, no longer inflammed and just feels healthy.

Has anyone experienced this? I worry that the constant scalp manipulation has altered something in my scalp that's caused more hairloss or caused TE or something, because it's weird to suddenly be diffuse thinning.

I've interviewed a lot of people over the years performing various massage techniques. Certainly help some people, however many have other forms of hair loss or triggers or causes. 

Some have reported similar results. You'll want to further investigate other causes.

Never once had I even thought about the topical/massage approach, and having written a few articles on it, the research was not compelling enough for me to even entertain it.

Yeah, I'm wondering if something else is contributing to the hairloss, since there's a slight TE look to the thinning (it looks normal from afar, but as soon as you move hair there's a lot of scalp showing). Maybe massage causes too much inflammation?

I was planning to at least try the massage route at least for a year, but I may just cut it short (I've got into such a habit doing it, that it may be hard to crack the compulsive massaging).

I just hope the lost hairs will return more or less as before and that it's not just sped up the MPB process.

Perfect hair health... Oh deary me... that guy Rob still peddling his horse crap. Tragic. I warned people about the inflammatory effects of continuous massage, and how it rapidly accelerates hair loss.

There’s very little adipose tissue throughout galea region, so when pressure is applied, the layers of skin (follicles included) are being crushed against the hard bone mass of the skull. This is akin to sheer and friction damage that cause bed sores.

As your results demonstrate, do not listen to a word Rob says.

Xenon wrote:Perfect hair health... Oh deary me... that guy Rob still peddling his horse crap. Tragic. I warned people about the inflammatory effects of continuous massage, and how it rapidly accelerates hair loss.

There’s very little adipose tissue throughout galea region, so when pressure is applied, the layers of skin (follicles included) are being crushed against the hard bone mass of the skull. This is akin to sheer and friction damage that cause bed sores.

As your results demonstrate, do not listen to a word Rob says.

So is the damage permanent? or can the follicles/skin recover after ceasing massage? One thing I noticed from the massage is that the scalp skin feels thinner and I can feel way more of the skull bumps and ridges than before. Initially I thought it was the release of trapped sebum or breaking up of calcification, but now I wonder if it's merely diminished the subcutaneous fat in the scalp, leading to a more diffuse balding.

Can confirm.
Initially the massage does feel good(makes the scalp feel looser) but then there is a period of shedding.
I tried massage + wood brush(nothing too excessive) for a while a year or two ago, and my hair in the crown area definitely thinned as a result.

Recently I threw away the brush and was using scalp massage(only 5-10 minutes a day) and diffuse thinning on the crown is spread over a bigger area now. Although I can't fully atrribute the second instance to scalp massage only because I used minox(kirkland foam) through november to april(5.5- 6 months) and suddenlty dropped(as I saw no difference for the better or the worse). Eventhough it mentions that once you stop using it, you lose the effects, I was under the impression that you'd lose your gains(in my case I didn't gain anything) and nothing more.
So I can't be sure if the scalp massages or the minox caused shedding, but it mostly became more apparent through june to august.
I have to add though, the massages I did is just with my palms and finger tips to loosen the skin on the back sides and top areas.

Pelican, it’s difficult to say, as we see hair oftentimes regrowing in alopecia areata sufferers who have been bald for many years - decades even. However, MPB generally seems to be a one way street due to the influence of DHT. The hormone seems to: 1. cause a decline in progenitor stem cells - the cells required for terminal hair growth 2. Promotion of inflammation. The continuous massage just adds to the existing deleterious effects of DHT, thereby accelerating hair loss (as you and many before you discovered).

For anyone who doubts that androgens are involved in hair loss, just look at female to male transsexuals, and how they go through the balding process as any regular guy would.

CausticSymmetry wrote:Never once had I even thought about the topical/massage approach, and having written a few articles on it, the research was not compelling enough for me to even entertain it.

What strikes you as being wrong? Something I find suspicious about Rob is that he claims he was bald...I find this difficult to believe based on the hair he has now.

Rudiger wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote:Never once had I even thought about the topical/massage approach, and having written a few articles on it, the research was not compelling enough for me to even entertain it.

What strikes you as being wrong? Something I find suspicious about Rob is that he claims he was bald...I find this difficult to believe based on the hair he has now.

He was never significantly balding. He had a mild thinning spot on the crown which the GP diagnosed as MPB, but otherwise insanely full looking head of hair with no recession. It's clear that the massage helped with his crown area (and the submitted pics also show success stories), but considering his lack of temple recession in the first place, I do sometimes wonder if there were other factors at play that contributed to his mild crowd thinning.

After 10 years of severe scalp inflammation I've just started finding quite a bit of relief but doing the scalp exercises and then I see this thread!

Having seen a fair amount of people saying they got some hair regrowth, or at the very least maintenance, I might just stick with it.

Will report back in a few months if this does go south but right now the relief from the constant pain/itch is too good to stop.

DBAL wrote:After 10 years of severe scalp inflammation I've just started finding quite a bit of relief but doing the scalp exercises and then I see this thread!

Having seen a fair amount of people saying they got some hair regrowth, or at the very least maintenance, I might just stick with it.

Will report back in a few months if this does go south but right now the relief from the constant pain/itch is too good to stop.

Yeah, it definately massively helped the sore/tender scalp, so I wouldn't stop it. I think maybe I overdid it, not allowing my scalp to recover since I got into the habit of doing it throughout the day, thinking more is better..especially with the pinching technique which I think was the main irritant. Now my scalp is loose I can maintain it like that with a much gentler massage and just stretching the skin every now and then, so I'm not stopping altogether, just easing off the vigorous massage (the hard pressing and pinching) and having some time off every few days to give the scalp a break.

I forgot to add.
While I was looking for a zinc supplement back when the pandemic started, I couldn't find any but what I found was that one brand which made saw palmetto(1000mg) with zinc(30mg) in it(as well as some other stuff like biotin and pumpkin seed and laimum almum). I bought two of those(360 capsules) and used it twice a day. I ran out a month ago or so and I bought another zinc supplement instead of saw palmetto one.
Which also coincided with my recent shedding. So I'm starting to wonder if that also had a part in it.

Would using and quitting saw palmetto such an effect ?(or any of the other ingredients I mentioned above)

Nuada wrote:I forgot to add.
While I was looking for a zinc supplement back when the pandemic started, I couldn't find any but what I found was that one brand which made saw palmetto(1000mg) with zinc(30mg) in it(as well as some other stuff like biotin and pumpkin seed and laimum almum). I bought two of those(360 capsules) and used it twice a day. I ran out a month ago or so and I bought another zinc supplement instead of saw palmetto one.
Which also coincided with my recent shedding. So I'm starting to wonder if that also had a part in it.

Would using and quitting saw palmetto such an effect ?(or any of the other ingredients I mentioned above)

Lamium album, (slight spelling difference), is very similar to Urtica Dioica (Stinging Nettle), yet both Decrease Glycogen Synthase Kinase-3 beta and Increase K-Ras...

When you add Saw Palmetto at the right dose, etc... It's a pretty good combo, so would not be surprised to see shedding after a drop of these ingredients.

CausticSymmetry wrote:

Nuada wrote:I forgot to add.
While I was looking for a zinc supplement back when the pandemic started, I couldn't find any but what I found was that one brand which made saw palmetto(1000mg) with zinc(30mg) in it(as well as some other stuff like biotin and pumpkin seed and laimum almum). I bought two of those(360 capsules) and used it twice a day. I ran out a month ago or so and I bought another zinc supplement instead of saw palmetto one.
Which also coincided with my recent shedding. So I'm starting to wonder if that also had a part in it.

Would using and quitting saw palmetto such an effect ?(or any of the other ingredients I mentioned above)

Lamium album, (slight spelling difference), is very similar to Urtica Dioica (Stinging Nettle), yet both Decrease Glycogen Synthase Kinase-3 beta and Increase K-Ras...

When you add Saw Palmetto at the right dose, etc... It's a pretty good combo, so would not be surprised to see shedding after a drop of these ingredients.

Yeah I figured as much. But when I first ordered it, I honestly didn't know much about saw palmetto and after googling it I heard some bad things about it like post saw palmetto syndrome. So I was hesitant on going back to it again. I never figured it would yield positive results regarding hairloss since I mainly got it for the zinc.

I ordered pumpkin seed capsules(heard it is a side effect free natural treatment) but now that you said it, maybe there were other key ingredients like laimum album.

I'm also wondering if there is such thing as "too much zinc"? I already have a 1000mg vitamin C supplement which also has 11 mg zinc in it(as well as 50mg beta glucan and 30mg rosehip).
If I go back to saw palmetto with 30mg zinc(you gotta take 2 pills a day) it might be too much zinc ?

Also prior to this month I was also using a different brand of Vitamin C which had other stuff in it too. The ingredients were : 1000mg vit C, Bromelain 100mg, citrus bioflanoids 100mg, rosehip 100mg, aserola 100mg, resveratrol 100mg and quercetin 80mg). What do you think about this one ?

Short-term zinc is okay, but 30 milligrams is not a good idea long term. In fact, there are some people who should not take it at all (we're all different).

My first "herbal" treatment aside from vegetable juicing was saw palmetto, took it from the mid-90's although early 2000's. Even wrote an E book on it. Later completely abandoned it--yet still good when used correctly.

Saw Palmetto certainly can cause Poison-Ass-Ter-Ride-like effects (Do-Trash-Your-Ride) (Dutasteride) too, but results are not as permanent as the chemical poisons. 

Yet, information these days is always confounded with rumors. It's all about balance.  

It's a less is more, too much could make it worse type of thing.  

I've been on record numerous times suggesting not to take saw palmetto. However, it's really not bad when
used (with balancers) and at modest doses, it's not really bad at all.

That "balancer" previously mentioned is great.

Nothing wrong with the other combo mentioned, but it's mostly support.

CausticSymmetry wrote:Short-term zinc is okay, but 30 milligrams is not a good idea long term. In fact, there are some people who should not take it at all (we're all different).

What would the reasons be that someone shouldn't take zinc at all?

theseeker86 wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote:Short-term zinc is okay, but 30 milligrams is not a good idea long term. In fact, there are some people who should not take it at all (we're all different).

What would the reasons be that someone shouldn't take zinc at all?

Lots of reasons. It's not bad to take some zinc if needed, but excessive amounts over time can do the opposite than intended, and cause other imbalances of other minerals. Zinc is normally complex with other minerals.

Hey, Pelican!

I don't post here much, but I was hear seeing if I could find an update on JDP710 and I thought I'd chime in with an overly-long post, just like the old times.  I have the benefit of hearing from sometimes hundreds of people on any topic that don't post in forums, and I hear a lot about detumescence therapy.  What you are describing is EXACTLY what happens with almost everyone I talk to on this.  1) Your hair will look better, 2) your hair will start looking like sh*t, and 3) then eventually it gets better again <-- and usually stays that way if you keep doing it.  I've heard this dozens and dozens of times, and I experienced this myself.

Let me make two points quick here.  First: DT is one of those treatments that seems to cause the follicles to go back into anagen / growth phase like LLLT, dermarolling, and some other things.  As I'm sure everyone here knows (and I'm sorry that I'm massively over-simplifying here), when that happens, you are ultimately going to shed  -and possibly have a "syncronized shed" and you really notice because the follicles in telogen/resting phase that would ordinarily be scheduled to fall out over a longer period are doing it all at once.  People that suffer from MPB generally have more telogen/resting hairs than the normal population, too, so this just makes it even more profound.  

Anyway, basically, when you kick your follicles back into anagen, that hair that is sitting there is gonna go.  Sometimes it'll stay a little longer (which is why you sometimes see pictures with two or three hairs sticking out of one follicle), but it's slated for removal.

Second: With DT, *unlike* most other treatments, you are putting massive amounts of stress on the hair itself with all the pulling, pinching, stretching, prodding, twisting, whatever.  DT is pretty unique with the amount of physical stress that it puts on the hairs themselves.  So, this would mean that if a hair is even just "sticking it's big toe" into resting phase, it's going to be knocked out very quickly when you do high impact DT!  So, this sort of "compounds the problem" here, and is why almost everyone uniformly goes through this process.

It's funny... I always recommend that people do vigorous massaging with topicals, use hard plastic shampoo scrubbers in the shower with a timer for one minute, pull their hair when they are upside down on an inversion table, and other things like that.  Basically, everything you do, really put some stress on the hair/scalp.  All of those things have that same effect, and I can always tell when people have never put any sort of real "physical force" on their hair before because of the panicked emails I receive.    I heard it so much for a while that I made this [very hard to read] document [rife with spelling and grammatical errors]:
http://overmachogrande.com/uploads/instructables/the-finger-test-and-a-word-on-hair-cycles/the-finger-test-and-a-word-on-hair-cycles.pdf

I used to tell people to do "the finger test" to see where they stood with their hair cycles.  If they actually see hairs on their fingers, they aren't doing ENOUGH physical force because those telogen hairs should already be knocked out!  

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I've ***always always always*** (yes, I said it three times!) seen/heard better results from people that actually do things that physically impact their scalp vs. the ones that don't.  Scalp Skin Lady brought this to our attention way back circa 2005 at Regrowth.  This doesn't necessarily mean Detumescence Therapy -but simply just the heavy massaging of topicals, scalp peels, shower brushes, etc. that I was talking about.

Like people already said, of course everyone is different, hair loss has a million different causes -and that's part of the problem why hair loss seems harder to cure than cancer.  I can't speak to how successful DT is as it's own solo treatment because most people that I hear from are also doing this in tandem with LLLT (and DT is very synergistic with LLLT).  I do not feel that there is any way possible that doing DT is causing any damage or inflammation that is detrimental whatsoever.  That's just not what I've heard or witnessed with DT or any other treatment that has physical impact.  As far as the people that have been doing it for an extended period like a year and say that their hair is still getting worse or it never returned back to "normalcy", I don't have an answer.  I have not heard of that until this thread, actually --no one else has ever reported that to me.

As far as Rob himself and his hair loss, no one is ever a perfect messenger.  You can't take away from the guy that 1) he's super nice and 2) his research is wow, impeccable!  Dude knows what he's talking about.  I hate it that he charges for the exercises, but that's mostly because it means I can't share them to help others without saying "you have to pay money to learn how to do scalp exercises".  I think he must be magic or something because with any other thing like this, one person buys it and the next day, it's all over the internet.  I'm not sure how he's preventing that from happening other than magic.  

I personally think that DT is great for the people with the time to do it that are ALSO doing a full regimen ( <-- important! ), and it could possibly be invaluable as an aid to other treatments.  By itself, I don't know.  I don't know if it'd stand on it's own, but it does seem to boost things when added to the regimens of people using LLLT, for example.

BY THE WAY... *if* you are doing DT, you absolutely need to go to Amazon and try these:



...and here are the size 12 ones I use for a whopping $2.98 from amazon for 12 of them (and I put them on the index/middle/ring finger of each hand):
https://www.amazon.com/Swingline-Puntas-dedos-unidades-Ambar/dp/B00007LB0G

...and I'm sorry I haven't been getting out the word about these yet.  Those cheap things by themselves make your session so much more productuve.  I use them in two different stages of my helmet making process, and it finally occured to me "hey dummy... use these on your fingers for DT!".  

I can't help you with the size except to say that I am size 12, and that my fingers are somewhat equivalent to 5/8" dowel rods. I have big hands, but kind of slender musician fingers.  I can pass my fingers to the first knuckle through a 5/8" hole, if that helps:


There is something better, though, and it's these simple wooden things that I call "Wooden Fingers" (with those same 5/8" dowel rods, and the size 12s fit well on them) make it even better, and I am going to make a video soon on how everyone can make them:





The problem with DT -and why more people aren't doing it- is that 1) it hurts your fingers, and 2) that you have to do it so long to make an impact.  Those "wooden fingers" have a body that fits into the palm of your hand like a guitar neck, so you are pressing with your palms, not your fingers, and they have the rubber finger tips for massive grip.  This completely solves those problems.  In fact, it's so intense that you will will have a problem doing it every day.  Man, you can almost rip apart your scalp with them, which is something you just can't do with your fingers.  [Not that you'd want to, of course... I'm just illustrating how intense this can be!]

I gave some of these to people (like Nidhogge, actually!), we came up with about nine exercises (that are in a pdf form, but I can't give it out publically because they are based off of Rob's exercises, and only privately to people that have bought the course -I HATE THAT, but honor compells me to have to do this) and we all agree that this is certainly the better way to do DT -whether it works for you or not, it's the easier way to do it, it eliminates finger/hand pain, and decreases the amount of time you have to do it.  You can do it infinitely more vigorously as well.  I don't know why there aren't devices like this already, to tell you the truth, since it was so easy to come up with a solution.

I'll reiterate that I don't know whether or not the added intesity, etc. of the wooden fingers will actually equate to more results, but if the key to success is intense massaging, then this is the superior way to do it.  Everyone should at least try those rubber finger tips, and if you can make a handheld thing that also uses these rubber finger tips, then do it!

Ok, good luck, everyone out there!  JDP710... get better, dammit!!!


-John (O.M.G.)

OverMachoGrande wrote:Hey, Pelican!

I don't post here much, but I was hear seeing if I could find an update on JDP710 and I thought I'd chime in with an overly-long post, just like the old times.  I have the benefit of hearing from sometimes hundreds of people on any topic that don't post in forums, and I hear a lot about detumescence therapy.  What you are describing is EXACTLY what happens with almost everyone I talk to on this.  1) Your hair will look better, 2) your hair will start looking like sh*t, and 3) then eventually it gets better again <-- and usually stays that way if you keep doing it.  I've heard this dozens and dozens of times, and I experienced this myself.)[/b]

Thanks for the in depth post! Definately liking the idea of those rubber finger things. They look like it'd make it easier to move the scalp and get a better grip. I'm not sure about the wooden tools yet, my scalp just feels a bit too sensitive for anything more than wooded brushes at the moment.

Just wondering though - you said that hair gets better, then worse, then better. What are signs that DT might eventually work for someone? Since doing DT my scalp feels different e.g. the scalp feels more even and less thickened and I can feel more skull detail (not sure if this is good or bad). I can also feel a lot of stubble like hair across the scalp, but sometimes it feels like it's stalled growing or growing very slowly. As for shedding - I've gone through phases of shedding mostly short, fine hairs, then longer thicker hairs. Some accelerated, other times it feels I'm barel losing any hair.  It makes sense that things go through cycles of looking worse then thickening up with new cycles, but it's difficult to know for sure whether these sheds are going to come back stronger or miniaturized.

Be careful. Don't over do it. I remember someone either on this site or another one years ago who was doing this all the time and he began to notice that his face looked like it was sagging. He was able to pinch the skin on the top of his scalp with his fingers because he loosened it up so much. He thought he may have to get plastic surgery to correct the face sag eventually.

shaftless wrote:Be careful. Don't over do it. I remember someone either on this site or another one years ago who was doing this all the time and he began to notice that his face looked like it was sagging. He was able to pinch the skin on the top of his scalp with his fingers because he loosened it up so much. He thought he may have to get plastic surgery to correct the face sag eventually.

Hey, Pelican...  

Unfortunately, I really don't know the answer to that because it sounds so different than what I've always heard.  Feeling more skull detail seems sort of the OPPOSITE of everything I've ever experienced or heard about --I would have described it more like I feel like the galea is getting thicker/healthier.  Then again, most people that I know are doing it in tandem with other "mechanical" things, like inversion tables w/ hair pulling (which is crazy how much blood flow increases between the follicles and the skull -it actually burns pretty good, and yes, I know that sounds like one of those "Hollywood Hair Loss Cure" types of things).  So, maybe it's just some sort of weird thing that goes on sometimes for some people.

Just to ask (and a lot of people would find this insulting so I apologize in advance    )... have you used minoxidil in the past year?  I always have to ask that because that terrible stuff never gets it proper "due" as a life-wrecker for many people (often because of forum shills).  Practically just walking down the aisle with minox in a grocery store can cause a mass shed for some people, and things can stay wacky for a long, long time.

Anyway, the reason I ask that is because I've heard lots of people that just get stuck in a similar sounding cycle that are either using minox or have quit it in the past year.  Then, of course, it takes so long for hair to normalize that you start blaming it on the wrong thing --which is very easy to do.

By the way, what's "funny" about me is that I haven't been able to do much of any of that sort of thing for the past year.  In August 2019, I got a terrible case of the shingles, and it was just awful.  Massive stress will certainly do it.  I actually had to drive myself to the emergency room during a family reunion at a beach house in Charleston, SC, and then spent the rest of August in bed and most of September "hiding" because it still hurt like crap.  My scalp has been extraordinarily sensitive since then.  I'll go through periods of being able to do mechanical/physical things for a while, but I'll usually stop after a few weeks.  I've been slowly introducing a 0.5mm dermaroller again, and I'll occasionally use those wooden fingers for a few minutes, but wow... a solid year later, and the nerves are still overly sensitive.


Shaftless...  That sounds like what I would define as an "illegitimate poster", ha ha!  If you remember, I was quite good at busting people -including big companies like Hair Max (I famously still have a screenshot of their ip address that says "Lexington International, LLC")- posting similar "tall tales" about treatments.  He could absolutely be telling the truth and been a long term poster, and I feel sorry for him, but man, saying you might need plastic surgery on your face because you did too much DT doesn't immediately pass any of my sniff tests!  This would be from the pages of "how to ruin the public image of a good treatment 101".  

It actually reminds me of how Richard Simmons lost so much weight in the 80's that he had to get plastic surgery, but that could have just been an urban legend from back in the day.

EDIT --Oh, just found it:



The create date on that file was 5/22/2009, and I think that was either the post where they were saying more than 9 diodes will make your hair fall out (and please note that they indeed sell devices with a high number of diodes now, so "magically" the science must have changed, right?!), or it could be when they randomly attacked Dr. Maricle, saying that he only had a graduate degree in education.  Ha ha, Dr. Maricle is a coast guard reserve ADMIRAL, and has a doctorate degree in electrical engineering.  

I'm only posting this stuff because I was shocked to find out just how many illegitimate posters are in forums, and that sort of stuff really happens. Totally mindblowing that people will do that! Before I "retired" from forum life, I used to really tear these people new assholes.    

-John (O.M.G)

shaftless wrote:Be careful. Don't over do it. I remember someone either on this site or another one years ago who was doing this all the time and he began to notice that his face looked like it was sagging. He was able to pinch the skin on the top of his scalp with his fingers because he loosened it up so much. He thought he may have to get plastic surgery to correct the face sag eventually.

By the way, I saw your other post in the thread about JDP, but I didn't want to answer there because I didn't want to take anything away from the life and death situation he's going though right now.  I had a pancreas attack in late 2011, and it took most of 2012 to recover.  That's one of the reasons that I withdrew from public view and went basically to all email.  I've had some other problems like histamine problems that lead to a very bad lung situation from inhaling a lot of Western Red Cedar dust and the smoke from burning it (if you google "western red cedar, lungs" or something similar, you'll see it's a crazy situation, and only something like 50% of people every fully recover when they get hit hard).  I have terrible fibromyalgia now as well -undiagnosed, of course, because I have a strong distaste for seeing doctors about things that they can't cure (which is most everything).  Most of my problems could be solved, of course, with a month long water fast, and then only picking up the fork responsibly, but that's another story!  

This is why Immortal Hair and I haven't "gone big" with the videos like we were planning to -I keep getting close to starting, but that extra drive I had pre-2011 isn't quite there.  I *do* however, have my studio mostly finished, so we are going to start once it gets a bit cooler.  My video studio is in a northeast Florida garage, ha ha, and basically (even though I insulated the garage door) at any point it's 90 degrees+ during most of the day.  Anyway, that will be really fun when we do get started (a decade late).  I love talking about things like that Hairmax IP address!

Anyway, the benefit, I suppose, is I do have a medical marijuana license now.  

Oh... and my video studio has western red cedar EVERYWHERE just to mock to gods of this world. Ok, sorry to change the topic, and I yield back my time!

-John (O.M.G.)

Ok, that's interesting. I've heard mixed opinions on whether thinner scalp skin is better (a sign of less calcified skin), or thick skin (a sign of more subcutaneous fat) so I'm not really sure what to think. Since I've been massaging the sides more recently it also feels like I can feel the skull ridges more as well, so the massage has definately done something on the non balding areas as well. That said I feel that as long as the top scalp skin in somewhat similar to the thickness of the side/back scalp skin then maybe that's all that matters.

As for minox, no, I've never taken any hairloss meds.

OMG...Hey those videos sound cool. Maybe we will see what Immortal actually looks like? hahaha Does the pot help the fibromyalgia? Anyway. yeah, health problems can hit us out of the blue anytime. I had my gall bladder removed a few years ago. No biggie compared to what you went/are going thru. It just shows that nobody is invincible. There's this Ohio newscaster girl on facebook that told her story of contracting covid and how it affected her. She seemed like the picture of health until bang. I copied and pasted her story. Whether or not it was the virus responsible only god knows but it sounds believable. Many people are experiencing not only lung problems with this virus but other organ breakdowns too.


Caroline Collins TV

2d ·
...
LONG POST WARNING- WHERE HAVE I BEEN?
WOW! I’m so happy to be back this weekend! I have to fill you all in.... I’ve been dealing with some complications from coronavirus.
•
Three weeks ago I was exposed to COVID-19 and I contracted the virus. I believe it took about 5 days until it took me down. I had no symptoms and was hanging out with family all weekend. Yes, that included my grandparents.
•
I worked out one morning and had to break a lot. That's never the case with me! I power through workouts like crazy usually! I went home and felt pretty tired. 8 hours later I had aches and pains, the chills, a sore throat, and I began coughing.
•
The next day I went to get tested. A few days later I found out I was positive for COVID. I was up and down with a fever and cold- like symptoms and was SO TIRED! I then developed chest pains that were waking me up through the night. I was also getting really winded and noticed my heart rate was high when I would move around.
•
I casually mentioned this to my mom. My mom told me to go the ER. I said no, of course. She got some of my cousins on the phone who are all doctors and they also said get to the ER. My mom was concerned that it could be a blood clot. After running tests, they found a high level of troponin in me which indicated an issue with my heart.
•
I was admitted to the hospital where I stayed for 24 hours in the COVID unite. A lot of tests were done over the next several hours. Doctors were concerned that I had Myocarditis, inflammation and infection of the heart muscle. An MRI of my heart revealed that the lining of my heart was inflamed, which is called pericarditis. I got to see the images and the doctor showed me all of the inflammation that was caused by COVID. If this isn't taken care of, it can cause long term heart problems.
•
Over the past week, more and more reports have been coming out about possible heart effects in athletes who contract COVID-19. Now, the BIG 10 referenced this condition as a reason for cancelling their season. The NCAA is also concerned about this problem.
•
Fortunately, I'll be ok. I'm on some medication and I have to lay off my workouts for a while. But, if I didn't get this treated, I could have ended up with atrial fibrillation or who knows what other issues!
•
This is a pic of me in the hospital eating a salad.... my mom said I'm the only person she's ever seen order a salad in the hospital- and trust me she sees what everyone orders in there every day because she has to make sure they can swallow! She's a speech pathologist and is often treating COVID patients who are much sicker than I was. I love food and despite being put on a cardiac diet when I was in there (low sodium) the food was great! I am also very happy that after so many blood tests, I have conquered my HUGE FEAR of that needle going into my arm!
•
I can't thank the amazing cardiology team at Sharon Regional Medical Center enough! Dr. J. Mikolich an Dr. Brandon Mikolich were so kind to explain to me what they found and what I need to do going forward. Also, a thank you to Dr. Howard Slemons who was another key player in all of this.
•
I'm very happy that I tested NEGATIVE for COVID and I'm back to work! I'm blessed to work at WFMJ where they were able to give me the time off until I tested negative and was cleared by cardiology to return.
•
I am beyond thankful that none of my family members contracted the virus from me. We were super stressed out for a while. Bottom line- this virus is NO JOKE! I just turned 27-years-old. I run, I do spinning, barre and yoga regularly, I golf all the time and I maintain a healthy diet. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would suddenly be winded after a walk up the steps or a gentle slow yoga flow. Please, be understanding now when athletics are cancelled or mass gatherings are prohibited. Wear a mask and stay safe! Not everyone's story turns out like mine. So many people have lost loved ones to this virus.
•
The new findings of what COVID can do to the heart is so interesting. I think a story about it will be coming soon as I’ve learned SO MUCH about all of this the past few weeks.
•
I’m so happy to be back on the anchor desk! Thank you for all of the kind messages while I was gone! And THANK YOU for watching this weekend!