Regrowth Photos DT-CPR method

Hey cd, if I have a headache from my last DT session, that doesn't mean I should take a rest day does it? Only if I have a lot of soreness or pain I should rest, right?

Little update, I finally got that crunching sound everybody always talks about! I noticed it just now, but at the moment it's only on my right temple. I'm very excited, I wonder if I should take it a bit easier on that area now.

It's a long journey, take a day off if it seems to help. I almost never got headaches, it is mostly relaxing after the pressing pain is passed.

The soreness and pain just takes a gradual process to remove and heal. This process is like removing scars from the skin with needles or lasers. It just takes steady effort over time to make the skin regenerate.

Yeah I think I should take a day to rest, even though it really doesn't hurt, I'm a bit too enthusiastic about it and wouldn't want to overdo it.

Hello,
Posted a few update photos including the border area where the thicker regrow hairs can be seen. Honestly I wish I had thicker coverage over the entire original area of youthful hair. I will have to be patient to see the real process work for the 20 years of hair loss to recover. For sure it has stopped the loss, and regrown hair.
Hopefully younger guys can avoid getting to my stage of loss, and a regrow will just be a quicker benefit. I am happy to stick with the program, and still see new hairs weekly.


https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t11945-selected-dt-cpr-photographs#128979

Reborn Hair PPP wrote:Hey TLD22,

I usually perform 60 vertical and 60 horizontal strokes on each balding region applying only moderate pressure with a 1.5mm DR. I do sometimes have tiny blood spots but the objective is to experience mild erythema (pinkish/red skin coloration). The reason I chose 1.5mm is because the study used the same dimension for efficacy. Here is the study in case you need to reference it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/. Minoxidil or any other hair loss drug is not needed to obtain satisfactory results. I am living proof that it works without drugs and the younger you are, the better and faster your results will be. There is a good YouTube video showing how to properly use the dermaroller here: http://dermarollerinfo.com/micro-needling-derma-roller-for-hair-loss/.

If 1.5mm feels too penetrable causing discomfort, start small with 0.5mm and work your way up until your scalp adjusts to the pain. By the way, the pain is always "epidemic" during the first few strokes but later subsides after your scalp responds to the treatment.

Good luck!

Reborn Hair PPP (Prayer, Patience, Perseverance)

Responding to an older post here.

Reborn Hair PPP, that site you mentioned strongly discourages using a dermaroller above 1cm and says that 1.5 and above should only be used under professional supervision at 6 to 8 week intervals. Where are you getting the idea to use it every couple of weeks at home?

Also, how much bleeding are you getting from using it?

cdto2012 wrote:Hello,
  Posted a few update photos including the border area where the thicker regrow hairs can be seen.  Honestly I wish I had thicker coverage over the entire original area of youthful hair.  I will have to be patient to see the real process work for the 20 years of hair loss to recover.  For sure it has stopped the loss, and regrown hair.
  Hopefully younger guys can avoid getting to my stage of loss, and a regrow will just be a quicker benefit. I am happy to stick with the program,  and still see new hairs weekly.


https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t11945-selected-dt-cpr-photographs#128979

cdto, appreciate all the updates on this. General question for you: have you been fighting hair loss all this time in that 20 years or just decide to attack it recently?

Also, on the DT/bottle stuff, I've just started doing DT again the last week and been experimenting with your bottle method a few minutes each sesh. This morning I pressed in really hard as usual with the bottle and then felt it and there was a bottle shaped dent in the ridge of my scalp. Was mad, freaked me out at first because it wasn't resetting at all. Then I went back at it with the bottle and I realised the ridge on my scalp that I'd taken as normal was moving! Was wild. I've only managed to flatten out a smallish bump that was at the top of my crown, so not sure what it means for the rest of my scalp yet. But, that area feels so different, like a cool, flowing feeling. It's lovely.

That area's been a problem area for inflammation and irritation for me for years so I'm excited to see how much I can improve it. Thanks heaps for sharing your method, man. Good luck with the continued progress.

Welcome to the process Joey,  it is an interesting subject of the indents,  ridges, and the breakup of sub-dermal situations. I had a problem area that did go away after a few months also. Others have had ridges dissolve and later claimed full restoration using a few methods.  In about 10 days I will be posting  updated photos,  I am seeing evidence of hoped for thickening of more hairs.  

Yes I tried a few things along the way to treat my loss that started in my early 20's. Had some success with needling and minoxidil in 2006,  but did not want to have to keep doing those things for life.  Since then I had done nothing but wait to get another transplant.  This DT-CPR process was just to get my scalp healthy for a new transplant, and has turned into a slow process to real restoration.

For those of you that are following the green tea coconut videos thread-  in the videos the model showed most of his thickening on the back and crown area, not so much on the frontal areas.  I have always considered the limited   areas that I am featuring in the photos as the most difficult area of restoration.  From slick bald to hundreds of lengthening hairs.  The back areas and crown have gained a lot of new hairs,  as have all the hairlines, it is just hard for me to photograph the back of my head.

 I am trying a green tea and coconut  topical, I will detail another time.  Not sure if it is working yet, as my hairs were already progressing.

Joey Ramone wrote:

Reborn Hair PPP wrote:Hey TLD22,

I usually perform 60 vertical and 60 horizontal strokes on each balding region applying only moderate pressure with a 1.5mm DR. I do sometimes have tiny blood spots but the objective is to experience mild erythema (pinkish/red skin coloration). The reason I chose 1.5mm is because the study used the same dimension for efficacy. Here is the study in case you need to reference it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/. Minoxidil or any other hair loss drug is not needed to obtain satisfactory results. I am living proof that it works without drugs and the younger you are, the better and faster your results will be. There is a good YouTube video showing how to properly use the dermaroller here: http://dermarollerinfo.com/micro-needling-derma-roller-for-hair-loss/.

If 1.5mm feels too penetrable causing discomfort, start small with 0.5mm and work your way up until your scalp adjusts to the pain. By the way, the pain is always "epidemic" during the first few strokes but later subsides after your scalp responds to the treatment.

Good luck!

Reborn Hair PPP (Prayer, Patience, Perseverance)

Responding to an older post here.

Reborn Hair PPP, that site you mentioned strongly discourages using a dermaroller above 1cm and says that 1.5 and above should only be used under professional supervision at 6 to 8 week intervals. Where are you getting the idea to use it every couple of weeks at home?

Also, how much bleeding are you getting from using it?

Hey Joey,

I would say if you are a neophyte, start with 1.0mm as a safety precaution. Everyone's scalp is different, but eventually your scalp skin should adjust to the pain going forward. The 1.5mm is only directed to be used under professional supervision if you don't know what you are doing and use it irresponsibly. Always, always disinfect the roller with 91% isopropyl alcohol before and after usage for about 2 mins and apply moderate pressure.

The frequency is a little subjective depending on your sex and skin sensitivity. Males generally have thicker skin and can roll more frequently than females. Also, your scalp skin is typically thicker than your facial skin, so that 6-8 week waiting period might only apply if you are dermarolling your facial skin. With that being said, I did a trial and error experiment over several months. I noticed my scalp skin was healing fast and read on other forums that waiting about 2 weeks is reasonable before performing your next session. If you prefer to play it safe, then wait 6-8 weeks. I think going forward, I will wait about 4 weeks to see if I notice any faster growth. I always like to try something new, so maybe a longer waiting period will expedite the process.

By the way, this site actually says a 3-4 week waiting period on pg 6: http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

Depending on the size and the pressure applied to the dermaroller, you should have few to several blood spots. I would recommended eating a lot of vitamin C to enhance collagen regrowth and skin renewal.

By the way, since the NCBI study used a 1.5mm because it penetrates deeper in the skin to stimulate the dermal papillae cells, I would advise once you feel comfortable with the 1.5mm to use this size with 192 needles if you want to regrow your hair. I didn't want to waste my time with a smaller size over a period of 10 months because I don't think it's effective to regrow hair unless if you are using minoxidil. FYI - my results posted on my YouTube channel Reborn Hair PPP were based on the 1.5mm.

I hope this helps and good luck!

Reborn Hair PPP (Prayer, Patience, Perseverance)

cdto2012 wrote:Welcome to the process Joey,  it is an interesting subject of the indents,  ridges, and the breakup of sub-dermal situations. I had a problem area that did go away after a few months also. Others have had ridges dissolve and later claimed full restoration using a few methods.  In about 10 days I will be posting  updated photos,  I am seeing evidence of hoped for thickening of more hairs.  

Yes I tried a few things along the way to treat my loss that started in my early 20's. Had some success with needling and minoxidil in 2006,  but did not want to have to keep doing those things for life.  Since then I had done nothing but wait to get another transplant.  This DT-CPR process was just to get my scalp healthy for a new transplant, and has turned into a slow process to real restoration.

For those of you that are following the green tea coconut videos thread-  in the videos the model showed most of his thickening on the back and crown area, not so much on the frontal areas.  I have always considered the limited   areas that I am featuring in the photos as the most difficult area  of restoration.  From slick bald to hundreds of lengthening hairs.  The back areas and crown have gained a lot of new hairs,  as have all the hairlines, it is just hard for me to photograph the back of my head.

 I am trying a green tea and coconut  topical, I will detail another time.  Not sure if it is working yet, as my hairs were already progressing.

Cool, are you still going to get the transplant or see how far you can go with the DT-CPR?

Which green tea & coconut? The one from the Youtube video?

Reborn Hair PPP wrote:Hey Joey,

I would say if you are a neophyte, start with 1.0mm as a safety precaution. Everyone's scalp is different, but eventually your scalp skin should adjust to the pain going forward. The 1.5mm is only directed to be used under professional supervision if you don't know what you are doing and use it irresponsibly. Always, always disinfect the roller with 91% isopropyl alcohol before and after usage for about 2 mins and apply moderate pressure.

The frequency is a little subjective depending on your sex and skin sensitivity. Males generally have thicker skin and can roll more frequently than females. Also, your scalp skin is typically thicker than your facial skin, so that 6-8 week waiting period might only apply if you are dermarolling your facial skin. With that being said, I did a trial and error experiment over several months. I noticed my scalp skin was healing fast and read on other forums that waiting about 2 weeks is reasonable before performing your next session. If you prefer to play it safe, then wait 6-8 weeks. I think going forward, I will wait about 4 weeks to see if I notice any faster growth. I always like to try something new, so maybe a longer waiting period will expedite the process.

By the way, this site actually says a 3-4 week waiting period on pg 6: http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

Depending on the size and the pressure applied to the dermaroller, you should have few to several blood spots. I would recommended eating a lot of vitamin C to enhance collagen regrowth and skin renewal.

By the way, since the NCBI study used a 1.5mm because it penetrates deeper in the skin to stimulate the dermal papillae cells, I would advise once you feel comfortable with the 1.5mm to use this size with 192 needles if you want to regrow your hair. I didn't want to waste my time with a smaller size over a period of 10 months because I don't think it's effective to regrow hair unless if you are using minoxidil. FYI - my results posted on my YouTube channel Reborn Hair PPP were based on the 1.5mm.

I hope this helps and good luck!

Reborn Hair PPP (Prayer, Patience, Perseverance)

Thanks Reborn. The site was definitely talking about hair regrowth for 6-8 weeks. He's suggesting .25mm for greater penetration of topicals and .5mm-1mm for regrowth. Appreciate your take anyway. I'll read up more on it before I dive in, just wanted to find out which sources you were using. Were these the studies? 2013 2015

I've used a dermaroller in the past, it must've been either .25mm or .5mm because I remember barely feeling anything at all.

Hey Joey,

It is my pleasure to help out as much as possible.

Those are the studies I stumbled upon.

Also if this helps, I came across this website and I think this is the holy grail when it comes to knowing the mechanics of properly using a dermaroller for maximum efficiency. http://www.dermalintegrity.com/dr-setterfield-book.html. I was thinking of purchasing the book but it's kinda of expensive ($65).

You brought up a pretty interesting observation and I think the reason why some users were not experiencing good results with the dermaroller was that they did not wait long enough for recovery.

Thank you for your productive insight!

Reborn Hair PPP (Prayer, Patience, Perseverance)

Hi, a few new things to add as the treatment has been going on for a bit past 9 months now. Below are the links for the latest photos and the 2 topical links that have lead to my latest addition.

As seen in the photos, more hairs are thickening and lengthening. I have been doing a few things differently, so I do not independently know what is causing the nice level or acceleration of regrow. Here are the possible scenarios.

1. With the basic DT-CPR and cinnamon oil I have reached a critical mass stage where the thickening fuzz mat finally starts extending length. This happened on the sides with just the basic DT-CPR earlier ( months earlier) before the top thickened.
There seems to be a follicle thickening stage where the diameter must be wide enough before the hair will lengthen. The widening takes months. After the widening is done the hair grows like a normal fast growing hair, but blonde. The last stage is for the hair to change color to black or silver.

2. I started using the "blue tool" a few months ago with edges that dig in more, and the pressing surface narrower. I allow some rubbing with the oiled scalp. This feels like a nice scalp combing. I really like the feel of the tool, so mostly use this now. With the sharper plastic edges, it comes a step closer to needling.
--My blue tool is starting to fall apart so I switched to a PVC tube 3/4 inch diameter 90 degree elbow. This gives me the plastic edges to press with, along with the rounder part for a wider area press. Feels good so far.

3. The addition of a few topicals that I have used for about 5 weeks. Figured that they are helping some other people, so I added them. I refined the process to get the key ingredients conveniently. Jar one has virgin coconut oil (clear) with green tea leaves and seaweed soaking in it (never heated) . I put this on one or two times a day and wash off after 30-60 minutes. I use hot water and soap, then alcohol on a towel to scrub off. I think that keeping the scalp oily for many hours is not so healthy. I usually add cinnamon oil to the scalp 3 times a day while pressing. I put on the coconut oil, 15 minutes later I add the cinnamon oil, then press for 15 minutes the whole scalp. I am still pressing 3 times a day 10- 15 minutes with just cinnamon oil, or with both oils.

The second jar is a green tea (leaves) that were boiled in water with some seaweed added after cooling. Also a few drops of apple cider vinegar . I keep this in the fridge. At least 3 times a day I wet my scalp (and face) with the tea with my fingers. I only apply it on a non oiled scalp.

It seems the growth is getting to a nice stage where it looks more and more like real hairs filling in density. May still take many more months, for my depleted starting state, but for younger guys hopefully they can progress quicker.

last posted about a week ago photos
https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t11945-selected-dt-cpr-photographs

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t11188-my-green-teacoconut-topical-and-green-juicing-progress

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t12038-success-farewell-parting-advice-very-long-post?highlight=long+post

For a while now I've been very interested in your version of DT and the results you're getting. Congrats man!
I've done a bit of research as to what mechanical forces and stretching forces can do to the skin. It seems as though b-catenin, which is a multi-fictional protein, is activated and trans located to the nucleus in response to compressive forces on skin cells. B-catenin is what signals a variety of cellular functions, but it is quickly depleted within the cell after being produced. B-catenin has actually been proven in MANY studies to produce brand new hair follicles. I recently read that if b-catenin is depleted after hair follicles have formed, the hair is completely lost after the first cycle. So, even though I need to do a lot more study in this, I believe this may be why your seeing such good results, it's simply applying heavy compressive forces to the skin. Let me know what you guys think.

Iwillsucceed wrote: I recently read that if b-catenin is depleted after hair follicles have formed, the hair is completely lost after the first cycle..

i dont know how long the first cycle  takes but some time i stop my treatment for days or a week and my new hair remain ..also no hair loss during treatment ,just normal shedding from sides and back of my head .

long hair wrote:

Iwillsucceed wrote: I recently read that if b-catenin is depleted after hair follicles have formed, the hair is completely lost after the first cycle..

i dont know how long the first cycle  takes but some time i stop my treatment for days or a week and my new hair remain ..also no hair loss during treatment ,just normal shedding from sides and back of my head .

Hey long hair.
That's awesome to hear.
Are you currently doing the original DT or the DT-CPR? Also, do you believe in time, you may achieve a full head of hair again? 😁

Iwillsucceed wrote:

long hair wrote:

Iwillsucceed wrote: I recently read that if b-catenin is depleted after hair follicles have formed, the hair is completely lost after the first cycle..

hi
i dont know how long the first cycle  takes but some time i stop my treatment for days or a week and my new hair remain ..also no hair loss during treatment ,just normal shedding from sides and back of my head .

Hey long hair.
That's awesome to hear.
Are you currently doing the original DT or the DT-CPR? Also, do you believe in time, you may achieve a full head of hair again? 😁

hi
yes DT-CPR  i am using plastic cap ,i just press my bald /thin area   with the edge of the cap and do a line movement horizontally/ vertically or rotate like drawing a dot that all while pressing .
it may not be fast result as i want but the result is noticeable at least for me that why i keep doing it every day , it is really motivating .
i did Tom Hagerty SE ,Maliniak Method and regular DT before , they all gave me some result but this one is faster , i can sure you DT-CPR is a king of all of them because hard pressing  attack calcification and hard tissue  big time and also clear the blood vessel .
and yes it matter of time ,if i keep doing this every day with this growth rate i think 6 months will be enough to cover my front scalp and 20% of both temple.

Thanks for that very encouraging update cd!!

I wonder though, you said that you don't think keeping oils for hours on end on your scalp is healthy, but what about your face? I put coconut oil all over my face before I go to sleep and in the morning it seems to be totally (or almost totally) gone, but since skin is the same everywhere, do you think this is a bad idea too?

It's still too early for me to tell about the results from this but hopefully soon I'll be able to report something!

Interesting direction of research from Iwillsucceed . β-catenin seems to fit into the puzzle that has been emerging. In past threads I referenced research about micro injury body responses activating platlet rich blood count and stem cell regeneration. CS had posted this thread that I responded to about the need for proper conditions for the mitochondria during stem cell differentiation. Theory in basic terms - the pressing may cause regeneration, especially if the scalp if it is healthy and well oxygenated.

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t12023-mitochondrial-aerobic-respiration-is-activated-during-hair-follicle-stem-cell-differentiation-and-its-dysfunction-retards-hair-regeneration?highlight=stem+cell

"Stem cell renewal
One of the most important results of Wnt signaling and the elevated level of beta-catenin in certain cell types is the maintenance of pluripotency.[34] In other cell types and developmental stages, β-catenin may promote differentiation, especially towards mesodermal cell lineages."

source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-catenin
means that β-catenin assists in stem cells becoming the correct kind of body cell

----------------
For John Doe about the oils being left on for long periods. People have different types of skin, if it is dry - oil can probably be left on and absorbed- so after a few hours it is not clogging pores - basically it is mostly gone. I mention this about skin respiration in relation to the link above about regeneration and proper oxygen levels. Blood can bring oxygen, but the skin directly absorbs oxygen also. If you have oil on the skin too many hours a day it can restrict the oxygen flow, clog pores, and even increase bacteria leading to pimples. I use a very hot water to wash off the oil with soap, this further reddens and stimulates my scalp. To really clean the skin use vodka and a towel.

skin respiration
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2001.013067/full

Glad to hear guys are mostly sticking with the pressing process and are seeing enough to stay motivated.

Ok thanks for the info cd, I guess that more or less I can keep doing it then unless I start getting pimples/a reaction.

Can someone please explain to me. If all our frontal, temporal and crown hair follicles are supposedly sensitive to dht, how come 99% of the time our hair falls out in the exact same pattern. Such as, why does the hair right at the front of our natural hairline fall out first when the hair behind it is just as sensitive to dht? Why doesn't it just fall out in random patches as they are all sensitive to dht? I just don't buy all that s$#t know matter how much I read it, the skull, galea and the material under the scalp skin must be the main cause of this dreadful "disease".

from my experience the front scalp is tighter than the other parts that why it fall first .but every one is different some people start balding at the back first .
tight scalp caused by both skull expansion and galia muscle or any of them , tight scalp cause boor blood circulation trap your DHT which make your hair fall ,it also lead to acid accumulated under your scalp and move the calcium from skull to scalp and that's a hustle environment for hair follicles.
without tight scalp men can't be classic mpb.
without testosterone/DHT men can't be bald (castrated for example )
without 5R men can't be bald (some men don't have it)
so generally mechanical explanation of the hair loss can't be denied it just work with hormonal unbalance and both of them caused by stress ...

So is this DT-CPR suppose to promote angiogenisis, similar to that of the Dermaroller?

Iwillsucceed wrote:So is this DT-CPR suppose to promote angiogenisis, similar to that of the Dermaroller?

Yes the creation of more capillary networks and platlet rich conditions with stem cells are a few of the theories. Calcium removal and pore cleaning are other aspects. Forced blood flow from the bigger blood vessels on the sides upward are also a potential benefit.

This month I am really looking forward to posting the new photos. Reaching a nice stage of lengthening. Mostly interesting that so many hairs are coming to this stage at the same time. Always hoped there would be a stage when the density increased like a blanket, rather than just a few straggly hairs at a time.

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t11684-the-effect-of-platelet-rich-plasma-in-hair-regrowth-a-randomized-placebo-controlled-trial?highlight=platlet+rich

Can't wait for the new pics cd!

Also, you mention angiogenesis, Tom Hagerty also talks a lot about that in support of his "scalp exercise" routine.  I also do that in addition to your method.

Still going hard with your CPR method, I'm actually trying to increase the pressure, especially in the areas surrounding my temples.

EDIT: Little update;

Since two days ago, I've had a strange, I call it, "pre-sickness" feeling. It feels like my sinuses are congested or something, I had a little bit of a sore throat, and it just feel like that feeling you have when you know you are about to get sick, but a day before that.

Could this be due to the lymphatic drainage from the DT CPR massages, or is this just a coincidence? I'm going to start oil pulling with coconut oil again to try and clear my sinuses and stuff.