Bad Posture Correction

MikeGore wrote:Bad Posture, Ugly Abs, Weak Look
For along time I've notice that my ab area seems like it bulges out. The thing is I am not fat or anything. In fact I am of small build. Average height. I've always had bad posture. My abs are kinda visible but why does it look like I'm bulging in the waist area. It's hard to describe this in words since there is no name for it. But basically I see people who have flat abs, flat back, upright posture. Basically they look more aligned somehow, whereas my body looks like weak, even though I do work out and am not fat. What can I do to get that wall like look on my back, and flatten my abs (is that even possible?). Thanks. I can relate to the hollow back look. http://70sbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Posture-Pics.gif

MikeGore wrote:Bad Posture, Ugly Abs, Weak Look
For along time I've notice that my ab area seems like it bulges out. The thing is I am not fat or anything. In fact I am of small build. Average height. I've always had bad posture. My abs are kinda visible but why does it look like I'm bulging in the waist area. It's hard to describe this in words since there is no name for it. But basically I see people who have flat abs, flat back, upright posture. Basically they look more aligned somehow, whereas my body looks like weak, even though I do work out and am not fat. What can I do to get that wall like look on my back, and flatten my abs (is that even possible?). Thanks. I can relate to the hollow back look. I was going to post a pic better detailing my situation but some genius put a limit on who can do that so I guess I can show it to you. http://70sbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Posture-Pics.gif

CausticSymmetry wrote:Of interest on this topic, two things come to mind.

(1) There seems to be a relationship between Scoliosis and Male Pattern Baldness, at least from a genetic perspective

a). http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071771

b). http://neurogenetics.qimrberghofer.edu.au/papers/Hillmer2008NatGenet.pdf

This involves the locus 20p11 and possibly MTHFR.

(2)

From a non-genetic perspective, there is a certain type of Chiropractic technique that can resolve these related posture problems...

What has intrigued me the most is the adjusting/fixing this problem improve detoxification.

So this maybe more epigenetic than genetic or perhaps both.

manofmanytrades wrote:I had that same issue and corrected it...  Tried PT, typically that pattern is credited to tight low back or tight psoas causing hips to hinge forward.  For me this benefit was limited-chiropractic corrected the posture (especially those that specialize in atlas correction, ie a cervical chiro) but subluxations would return and the posture would collapse again.  The subluxations returned because of tight fascia and/or ligament laxity.  Fascial planes run head to toe giving us our form, and don't respond to same soft tissue techniques as muscles.  Myofascial release as taught by john barnes helped 're-pattern' the fascia for me some, but I plateaued with that... Graston therapy (by a practitioner that went deeper than most) revealed I still had fibrosis in the surface fascia; this was further corrected with active release technique (ART) that breaks adhesions in the deeper fascia.  My posture was descent at this point.  I had prolotherapy in several more difficult areas.  With these therapies the removal of stubborn 'scar tissue' (ie fibrosis locking soft tissue together) my adjustments held and PT was successful with maintenance.  I doubt you'd need all that...I was a particularly difficult case.  Try what you need and if you sense you're plateauing with one, move onto another.  I wasted a lot of money continuing therapies that became only marginally helpful. I'd say that ART and prolotherapy were the most helpful for me, with ART being significantly cheaper.  A logical place to start would be physical therapy exercises...they sometimes very simply work, and you can find them online.  Try 2-3 weeks and see if its adequate for you.  Any bodywork you do, find a good practitioner (with a lot of certifications), even if it costs more.  Rolfing, trigger point therapy, and cupping also purport to work on fascia.  I found them not as helpful, don't believe they mechanically break or remodel the tissue like the others.  For any bodywork you have done it is important to have low levels of inflammation in the body and take key tissue rebuilding nutrients (vit c, silica, hyaluronic acid, glutamine, msm, quality fish oil).  Tissue broken down due to natural remodeling/exercise that tries to repair in the presence of inflammation is unable to heal correctly in a timely manner, leading to the disorganized fibrotic patterns that gave you the posture problem in the first place.  

CausticSymmetry wrote:Of interest on this topic, two things come to mind.

(1) There seems to be a relationship between Scoliosis and Male Pattern Baldness, at least from a genetic perspective

a). http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071771

b). http://neurogenetics.qimrberghofer.edu.au/papers/Hillmer2008NatGenet.pdf

This involves the locus 20p11 and possibly MTHFR.

Changexpert wrote:

manofmanytrades wrote:I had that same issue and corrected it...  Tried PT, typically that pattern is credited to tight low back or tight psoas causing hips to hinge forward.  For me this benefit was limited-chiropractic corrected the posture (especially those that specialize in atlas correction, ie a cervical chiro) but subluxations would return and the posture would collapse again.  The subluxations returned because of tight fascia and/or ligament laxity.  Fascial planes run head to toe giving us our form, and don't respond to same soft tissue techniques as muscles.  Myofascial release as taught by john barnes helped 're-pattern' the fascia for me some, but I plateaued with that... Graston therapy (by a practitioner that went deeper than most) revealed I still had fibrosis in the surface fascia; this was further corrected with active release technique (ART) that breaks adhesions in the deeper fascia.  My posture was descent at this point.  I had prolotherapy in several more difficult areas.  With these therapies the removal of stubborn 'scar tissue' (ie fibrosis locking soft tissue together) my adjustments held and PT was successful with maintenance.  I doubt you'd need all that...I was a particularly difficult case.  Try what you need and if you sense you're plateauing with one, move onto another.  I wasted a lot of money continuing therapies that became only marginally helpful. I'd say that ART and prolotherapy were the most helpful for me, with ART being significantly cheaper.  A logical place to start would be physical therapy exercises...they sometimes very simply work, and you can find them online.  Try 2-3 weeks and see if its adequate for you.  Any bodywork you do, find a good practitioner (with a lot of certifications), even if it costs more.  Rolfing, trigger point therapy, and cupping also purport to work on fascia.  I found them not as helpful, don't believe they mechanically break or remodel the tissue like the others.  For any bodywork you have done it is important to have low levels of inflammation in the body and take key tissue rebuilding nutrients (vit c, silica, hyaluronic acid, glutamine, msm, quality fish oil).  Tissue broken down due to natural remodeling/exercise that tries to repair in the presence of inflammation is unable to heal correctly in a timely manner, leading to the disorganized fibrotic patterns that gave you the posture problem in the first place.  

Holy cow... There are so many technical terms that I have not even heard of in this response. I have had bad postures for all my life and started going to chiropractic to correct my posture about 6 months ago. My posture is definitely better, but far from perfect. Fixing posture is no easy feat unfortunately. As manofmanytrades mentioned, just going to chiropractors 2-3 times a week is not going to get you anywhere in the long term. A lot of people with bad posture have very weak core. I thought my core was pretty strong after 8 years of working out, but I've only focused on doing crunches and leg raises, neglecting oblique and sides. Also, rowing helps, but it's not sufficient. I am still trying out different exercises and stretches to correct my posture, so I cannot say definitively what is the most crucial factor in correcting postures.

FWIW, I find back hyperextension most helpful in strengthening muscles I need. I have anterior pelvic tilt (hip rolling forward) with forward head tilt. My shoulder is a little rounded, forming a slight kyphosis.

manofmanytrades wrote:Agree on the core muscles exercises, those are really key for posture.

Fascia has some interesting properties recently discovered...used to be considered 'packing material' in the body, its now found to be innervated-reportedly 4.5 x more than the rest of the nervous system many musculoskeletal aches and pains should probably be attributed more to fascia than muscles.  There are still a lot of unknowns about the capabilities of fascia movement and ability to transmit cellular information.  What really surprised me is that I had gone through several years of professionally directed detox, nutrition, supplements for calcification, and various forms of bodywork and massage.  A graston practitioner simply scraping a tool over the tissue caused redness in some of the areas but not others, the areas that turned red correlated with areas id felt pain.  Their tenant is that the 'petechia' are areas of surface cross linked fibers that are being mechanically broken apart.  Active release technique also works in a mechanical way on fascia layers within the muscle tissue; the tissue is held in place while the muscle is moved through a range of motion.  This causes the fascia layers within the muscle to slide/glide, breaking old adhesions in the tissue.  I had undergone scores of various types of massage and 'myofascial release' and trigger point treatments that werent able to do that, because while bloodflow is being stimulated, that isnt necessarily enough to remodel the tissue.  It seems necessary to mechanically break the fibers...simply compressing the tissue and applying pressure in a direction wasnt enough.  After breaking the tissue, stretching in the correct range of motion assures reallignment of the fibers as they heal.  Some fascial holding patterns are quite deep and impossible to get with the mentioned techniques.  Prolotherapy and prp injections can work on fascia by causing inflammation in the tissue that attracts large amounts of growth factor and new blood supply, helping with remodeling.  This all got me thinking, since the galea is technically fascia, i wonder if that explains why many of the scalp massages help a little but not much? It might increase blood flow a few minutes, but if the scalp fascia has become tight or crosslinked for any reason (inflammation?) then it needs to be mechanically broken somehow, or blood flow through the fascial layer will continue to be choked (fascia has been measured to exert force up to 2000 psi).  Ive heard about prp being used for hair regrowth but cant find much info on results either way, and wonder about using graston tools on the scalp??