Danny Roddy's Organizing The Panic Product Now Free.. Watch Here

http://www.organizingthepanic.com/

Thanks, Sanderson. I watched part one, and will check out the others a little later. The information Roddy cited on heat shock proteins (or more appropriately 'stress proteins') being linked with androgen receptors is something which I delved into when I believed that excessive scalp heat was causing epigenetic mutations within the genome, thus signaling hair to miniaturize.

He quotes that Barbara lady (can't make out his pronunciation of her surname), "The heat shock proteins were part of the stress adaptation system allowing change in the organism when the environment allowed."

It is interesting that the scalp does tend to give off more heat than elsewhere, so it made sense to me that hair became a hindrance during evaporative cooling. I mean, one of the mechanisms of hair is to retain body heat, so too much heat would elicit heat stress.

However, it's not as simple as that... HSP's also increase in response to a variety of stressors and not just heat. For instance I remember quoting the following in one of my heat theory / HSP threads: "Production of high levels of heat shock proteins can also be triggered by exposure to different kinds of environmental stress conditions, such as infection, inflammation, exercise, exposure of the cell to toxins (ethanol, arsenic, trace metals, and ultraviolet light, among many others), starvation, hypoxia (oxygen deprivation), nitrogen deficiency (in plants), or water deprivation. As a consequence, the heat shock proteins are also referred to as stress proteins and their upregulation is sometimes described more generally as part of the stress response".

And: "Cellular stress response is a general term covering a wide range of molecular changes that cells undergo in response to environmental stressors, including extremes of temperature, exposure to toxins, and mechanical damage."

As we have previously noted, all of the above aggravate baldness. There's zero doubt about that. Why do androgen receptors / stress proteins upregulate within these cells specifically? Could it be genetic or could it be that excessive body heat is the primary cause of this problem? This is something I can't fathom.

One thing seems for certain, though - whether naturally intended or not, these follicles act as an early alarm system to inform us of things which pose a threat to our health / well being. IMO it simply cannot be disputed... extremes of temperature, food allergies, anxiety, infection, exercise, exposure of the cell to toxins (ethanol, arsenic, trace metals, and ultraviolet light, among many others), starvation, hypoxia (oxygen deprivation), nitrogen deficiency (in plants), or water deprivation, sleep deprivation / exhaustion, excess fap... all cause an inflammatory response within these follicles first.

So, now that we realize that baldness is our friend with our best interests at heart, we should love our baldness. We have a biological alarm system which our lesser evolved hirsute counterparts don't

ETA: If all of these stressors are eliminated to the best of our ability, then, perhaps,  HSP's / androgen receptors might gradually start to downregulate and hair might start to regrow naturally.

Xenon wrote:

So, now that we realize that baldness is our friend with our best interests at heart, we should love our baldness. We have a biological alarm system which our lesser evolved hirsute counterparts don't

Now there's a positive way to look at it...

TBH, I don't know too much about the heat issues, but I've read your stuff on it and know you know your stuff on it. Interesting that he talked about it as well. I mostly breezed through vid 1 and 2, but will take another look at it. I mostly looked at vid 3 and 4 which was the action portion of it.

Not going to lie.. I was actually expecting you to post some other things towards this LOL.. I know how you feel about him. Honestly, if you agree with the guy or not, you can't disagree with the fact at least he is trying to really put out good content on stopping MPB out there and is pretty consistent. And this is beyond technical here, he really hits a lot of points, definitely good to get a conversation going on it and combine it with more info we have here.

Roddy's blood work recommendations to aim for to avoid MPB:



If you guys found use in the videos above... support Danny Roddy at his Patreon page:
https://www.patreon.com/dannyroddy

No, Sanderson, I'm not saying Roddy is a bad researcher (although there are a few things I disagree with him on), my peeve with him is the fact that he was blatantly telling lies about being bald. It doesn't matter how much knowledge he or anyone has about MPB, it's when they start telling lies that their knowledge has / can cure baldness.

If he didn't make such a claim, I'd have no issues with him.

Xenon wrote:No, Sanderson, I'm not saying Roddy is a bad researcher (although there are a few things I disagree with him on), my peeve with him is the fact that he was blatantly telling lies about being bald. It doesn't matter how much knowledge he or anyone has about MPB, it's when they start telling lies that their knowledge has / can cure baldness.

If he didn't make such a claim, I'd have no issues with him.

It is obviously the major issue. If his advice does nothing for hairloss, then it is worthless for hairloss. If he was never balding, there is no reason to imagine it reverses hairloss, as there is nobody else I have seen claiming the same advice reversed hairloss.
If he tells blatant lies like this, he is a charlatan.

Why does he claim a resting heartrate of 85-90 would be of help with hairloss. That is a high heart-rate. Most athletes and people who keep fit would have a heart rate under 60. Such people suffer from hairloss at the same rates as the rest of the population. I would find it difficult to imagine increasing your resting heart-rate (having a weaker heart) can help your hair.

zarathustra wrote:

Xenon wrote:No, Sanderson, I'm not saying Roddy is a bad researcher (although there are a few things I disagree with him on), my peeve with him is the fact that he was blatantly telling lies about being bald. It doesn't matter how much knowledge he or anyone has about MPB, it's when they start telling lies that their knowledge has / can cure baldness.

If he didn't make such a claim, I'd have no issues with him.

It is obviously the major issue. If his advice does nothing for hairloss, then it is worthless for hairloss. If he was never balding, there is no reason to imagine it reverses hairloss, as there is nobody else I have seen claiming the same advice reversed hairloss.
If he tells blatant lies like this, he is a charlatan.

Why does he claim a resting heartrate of 85-90 would be of help with hairloss. That is a high heart-rate. Most athletes and people who keep fit would have a heart rate under 60. Such people suffer from hairloss at the same rates as the rest of the population. I would find it difficult to imagine increasing your resting heart-rate (having a weaker heart) can help your hair.

You are opening a can of worms here.. I'd recommend you check out and research some of Ray Peat's basic philosophies. Essentially, they say when you have a high pulse rate, you have a high metabolic rate and your thyroid and other hormones are working in sync when you have a high pulse. To get the high pulse, you have to consume large amount of fruit sugar, orange juice is the main stay. If you continue with the videos, mostly vid 3 is where the recommendations lie, he goes on to explain that you need 2-4 times the amount of carbs for protein that you get in a day, with dairy being a main stay for protein use. Basically, get 80-100 grams of protein per day (varies based on body weight a bit) and get 2-4 times the grams of carbs from that protein in order to offset the blood sugar drop from protein. Of course, there are other parts of the diet outside of these 2 factors.

He has posted this:



I hear ya Xenon, hard to see what works versus what didn't work without real evidence in front of us.

I think the big thing here is that a lot of people haven't gone all in with his advice. I'd be curious to hear from people that have followed his advice and what it did for them.

That last post is really interesting. I was talking to Rob from perfect hair health and I asked him to send some pictures demonstrating regrowth.

1 set of pictures showed himself with very mild thinning, it wasn't too convincing.

So I asked him to send another set and he obliged. The guy in the pictures looks very similar if not identical to the ones that you posted above from Danny Roddy's website.

Smells fishy.

schpiloch123 wrote:That last post is really interesting. I was talking to Rob from perfect hair health and I asked him to send some pictures demonstrating regrowth.

1 set of pictures showed himself with very mild thinning, it wasn't too convincing.

So I asked him to send another set and he obliged. The guy in the pictures looks very similar if not identical to the ones that you posted above from Danny Roddy's website.

Smells fishy.

Yes.. I think it is the same guy actually. That guy was doing scalp massages as well as doing this.

The black guy in the pic... someone posted those pics in the DT thread and said he cured his thinning hair via DT, if I recall correctly.

Anyways, if you look, his hair has only thinned - not balded out. When it's at that stage it is pretty salvageable, it's when the hair is gone completely that you have issues regrowing it - esp when it has been balded out for a long time.

BTW is that even MPB he has or some other form of alopecia? It's very odd considering it has only affected one side of his head.

Edited: schpiloch any chance of forwarding Robs hair pics on to me?

I guess that makes sense then, and yes by the looks of the photos he had only thinned out quite mildly. Regaining through massage was probably much more achievable.

From my view we need something a bit more extreme to break up the fibrosis/calcification in the scalp, in my opinion we can get that from consistent and quite vigorous derma rolling. Its certainly not for every one but IMHO if you want back your hair badly enough you will be willing to go through the pain. I did my first session last night and found that the pain was bearable especially when thinking of the reward.

And when I say vigorous, I mean making your scalp look like a butcher has been at it with a cleaver. The first session did not produce much blood but I was expecting that. Hopefully with time and consistence I will be able to produce better more bloody results.

I think this combined with consistent effort with DT could yield some very interesting results.


Xenon, I was asked by Rob not to share the photos of him and I am a man of my word. I'm sure that he would be more than happy to send them to you if you ask politely.

Xenon, I was asked by Rob not to share the photos of him and I am a man of my word. I'm sure that he would be more than happy to send them to you if you ask politely.

He mentioned this before to someone else. I don't know what that guy's peeve is with his photos being circulated online when he has a website showing his face in his videos. If anything, they would provide him with more credibility. Could it be that he's faked his pics and afraid of someone recognizing him and outing him? I mean, as far as I know, he is only known as 'Rob' and nothing else. Does he have a facebook page or anything else? Is his name even really Rob? See, I can use photoshop to fake my hairline no probs... you wouldn't know the difference. I did this for my dating site profile pic... no gal batted an eyelid.

Another little scam trick you have to be careful of is if someone shaves areas of their head where you can't even see stubble, claim it is MPB, then wait for it to regrow and claim these are follicles regenerating.

Here's how easy it is to fake a hairline in less than 10 mins with photoshop. I could have done a professional job if I had more time, too.

sanderson wrote:
He has posted this:



I hear ya Xenon, hard to see what works versus what didn't work without real evidence in front of us.

These are photos supposedly of a man reversing hairloss, yet the wording underneath doesn't mention hairloss, but mentions his health! It appears to be deliberately misleading.

And I don't believe hairloss is a health issue. There are loads and loads of examples of very healthy people who are balding.

The advice in these videos are dangerous. We all want our hair, but take a step back and realize how far you have fallen if you are considering this. There is so much research indicating mass amounts of sugar is bad for you, and humans are the -only- animals still consuming milk and dairy past infancy. This place reeks of desperation, and it draws in sharks. Even a few months back, I, and many others keen enough to take notice, watched the transformation from hair loss sufferer, to shark, when an old-time forum goer returned with the sole purpose of selling his snake oil, claiming it grew him hair in only a few weeks. When pressed for pictures, he made excuse after excuse, and when you looked at the ingredients on the snake oil, it was nothing more than packaged sea water. But you know what, people bit, and he made his sales. Danny Roddy is far more convincing. He can't prove he had hair loss because he likely did not, but he has torn another man's research with a anti hair loss spin and has become a guru because of it. In any other circle, Roddy could not have become a guru because not all communities are like the hair loss community where so many men are willing to try anything...

Those following Peat, why not at least be sure your confirmation bias is not leading you astray, by spending a free afternoon specifically searching, for people who have had health issues and problems while following this diet? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just remember how vulnerable I was when I first began losing hair and how I was taken advantage of too. I wouldn't wish this hair loss curse upon my worst enemy, but for people to come in and capitalize on our suffering, frankly makes me sick and it is hard to stay silent when I see it happening.

the truth is, I agree

but if you are losing hair, you have to do something. just do something.

the worst action is non at all.

second worst would be taking propecia and minoxidil.

people complain and complain, but ultimately do nothing substantial to solve their own hair loss

SonofOdin wrote:The advice in these videos are dangerous. We all want our hair, but take a step back and realize how far you have fallen if you are considering this. There is so much research indicating mass amounts of sugar is bad for you, and humans are the -only- animals still consuming milk and dairy past infancy. This place reeks of desperation, and it draws in sharks. Even a few months back, I, and many others keen enough to take notice, watched the transformation from hair loss sufferer, to shark, when an old-time forum goer returned with the sole purpose of selling his snake oil, claiming it grew him hair in only a few weeks. When pressed for pictures, he made excuse after excuse, and when you looked at the ingredients on the snake oil, it was nothing more than packaged sea water. But you know what, people bit, and he made his sales. Danny Roddy is far more convincing. He can't prove he had hair loss because he likely did not, but he has torn another man's research with a anti hair loss spin and has become a guru because of it. In any other circle, Roddy could not have become a guru because not all communities are like the hair loss community where so many men are willing to try anything...

Those following Peat, why not at least be sure your confirmation bias is not leading you astray, by spending a free afternoon specifically searching, for people who have had health issues and problems while following this diet? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just remember how vulnerable I was when I first began losing hair and how I was taken advantage of too. I wouldn't wish this hair loss curse upon my worst enemy, but for people to come in and capitalize on our suffering, frankly makes me sick and it is hard to stay silent when I see it happening.

Can you link me or explain the health problems associated with the diet?

Yes, I'll start you off, but compiling everything would take a very long time, and after spending all that time, I'd then likely have to defend the evidence I've brought forth and so I think each individual performing the research themselves makes more sense. What I don't want is a repeat of the DT thread where we have 100+ pages of back and forth. Ultimately people are going to decide for themselves, but like I said in my other post, I don't feel I can just not say anything.

Iuyy is right though, inaction is a problem on these forums so I do approve that people are doing something and to not sound like too much of a hypocrite - no, I am not the paragon of health and anyone who reads my posts knows I've resorted to dangerous regimens as well. I just think this one is dangerous, but also has the added problem of having no evidence it restores hair. So, here is a thread you can take a look at:

http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6486

Fatty liver disease, as well as diabetes may be worth looking into. I do not know what their abdominal pains are, but as their is not just one person in that thread who has them, this does not seem like an isolated incident.

There is a difference between doing nothing and not doing something that you know won't work. Doing something that you know won't work is just foolish and desperate. Why do something that will fail and frustrate you further at a later date? Being mislead deliberately is not good.

I would not follow this Peat diet for health reasons.

zarathustra wrote:
If his advice does nothing for hairloss, then it is worthless for hairloss. If he was never balding, there is no reason to imagine it reverses hairloss.

This said it all.

Roddy never had male pattern baldness. Why would his advice be taken seriously for hair loss. Peat himself never claimed anything about his measures would reverse hair loss, and seemed only to cite prolactin as the cause of male pattern baldness - which is an incorrect position. Neither Peat nor Roddy is a hair loss scientist.

Roddy just seemed to think he had an opportunity to market Peat at actual hair loss sufferers and make money. And based on the picture-testimonial tactics, he's letting himself get into that "I'm not even trying to hide it" territory anymore. He's full on internet marketer shill now.

Take his advice if you want. But its not hair loss advice. At the very best, its geared to enhance cellular oxidative metabolism according to a model thought up by Peat, which hasn't been proven and doesn't even stand to say whether or not we should be increasing cellular oxidative metabolism for the simple sake of it.

My advice is way more solid healthwise and all my information always has been free. For example, get your body burning more efficiently on ketones and theoretically have enough potential reserves left for hair growth.

Although I believe a pricetag on information sadly does place way more attention on it. Most of the sensible and practical information here gets ignored, even messages from CS. Just because Danny is selling you something doesn't mean it has any genuine value. And my time is better spent not leading horses to water all day, so......

Personally I don't get this whole obsession with Peat especially in regards to hair loss. It's so confusing to me and sometimes counter-intuitive. Refined sugar is going to send you into metabolic overdrive and age you 100x quicker. No wonder he thinks a rapid heartbeat is a positive outcome, instead of the more efficient heart that most athletes crave. This is just basic common sense.

Our hunter gather ancestors didn't have access to such food. Nor did they have the time to waste sitting on their asses postulating hairloss and synthesized cherry-picked science.

Anyhow I'd rather follow the sage, clearly delineated words of Jack Lalanne. Eat your vegetables and organ meat including liver, get plenty of protein and exercise and most importantly, get enough rest and sleep.



For the record, I haven't watched Danny's video series, but will eventually.

Still, Danny is one of the better out there in terms of ''organizing the mess''.

Hard to disagree with him in terms of optimizing mitochondrial function through eating real foods and keeping eye on the thyroid and prolactin, testosterone and inflammation, and competing for having whole nutritional palette. I however entirely disagree with approach with putting inside you with some exceptionally low grade foods as processed milk, excess caffeine and aspirin. Don't bother with fast metabolic rate either, since i experience it when my behavior is con-health aka alcohol consumption. His whole dietary suggestions are pick from distributed areas. Not very practical and reasonable to induce such foods in unique flora from random lurker still searching for his compass on this boards. I rather listen to my grandma in terms of finding out my user manual.

I totally dislike the idea of selling such info (although these are free). I imagine Danny has bills to pay too, and wish not to distract himself with other work. Which is fine, since his ''service'' is improving with time,IMO.

Beebrox.. yeah I do agree with you there. The caffeine is a little extreme and I think many people would have issues with some of his suggestions. Myself, I cannot drink cows milk and have opted for goats milk instead.

Thank you 4039 for making a post where you actually discuss logic. Xenon also brings lots of knowledge to the table. That's the kind of conversation I want to have.

A big reason why Roddy and Peat say heart rate is important is because of it's importance to current thyroid status. A heart beat that is under 85-90BPM is considered hypothyroid to them.

Now, he considers BPM important, however, he considers temperature as equal importance. He says a temperature should be consistently 98.6 degrees in order to show the thyroid is on point.

Now the question here, is that number accurate and prove that thyroid is in place? I believe yes, if your temperature is below 98.6, then you are indeed hypothyroid. Hairloss is without a doubt related to current thyroid status. I think you guys can agree with that.

I recently bought a thermometer and indeed, my temperature has been on the low end of 98.6. In fact, I will wake up with 96.5 or even 97. As I eat, I see my temperature go up. More importantly, Roddy claims, as you eat more sugar, your temperature rises and brings your low temperature up to 98.6. That is the main reason for sugar consumption. Also, it lowers cortisol.

I think you guys would agree temperature is important indicator of thyroid health. The question is, what is your temperature and what are the safe ways to increase it if this way is not the way?

It's pretty clear main stream medicine is wrong.. I don't see how consuming carbs in the form of OJ can be necessarily bad for you if you are also including enough fats and protein to keep cortisol low. The big kicker is.. enough fat and protein as well.

When you go ultra low carb.. your cortisol spikes greatly. I still don't understand how people are able to do with their stress hormones going out of control. 4039, have you tested cortisol, is it high? There was a guy who posted a couple years ago I thnk that said something along the lines of.. he had low carb diet and that's when his hair loss had started. I also did low carb diets in the past and feel it may have set me back "hair" wise, but forward recovering from finasteride wise.

Oh yeah, there are certainly much good in some of Peat's and Danny's words too. Beebrox hit on a few of them and we discuss most of them here. Although I don't think you can regulate all of these functions externally without driving yourself batty and into myopia. Either you make a major lifestyle change or find a unifying theory. I have done both in small part.

I wish it was simple as a single organ defining hairloss, like thyroid, thymus, pancreas or liver. We discovered the very function of a beating heart defined by CoQ10 three decades ago. Without it the food we eat doesn't get turned into energy. And yet we're still looking beyond for something more exotic, instead of trying to make what already exists more efficient and bioavailable to our cells.

I just don't like when someone takes ownership of age-old information, like they are reinventing the wheel. It ends up dividing people from the actual information.

And I certainly don't like how medical science has become so damn politicized or monetized. It smacks of a religious fervor. I'm still more of an integrative guy with multiple approaches, and take the best from wherever it originates. But I guess Danny's trying to distinguish himself from others who are profiting from these theories. Hey, I wish him well.

sanderson wrote:
When you go ultra low carb.. your cortisol spikes greatly. I still don't understand how people are able to do with their stress hormones going out of control. 4039, have you tested cortisol, is it high? There was a guy who posted a couple years ago I thnk that said something along the lines of.. he had low carb diet and that's when his hair loss had started. I also did low carb diets in the past and feel it may have set me back "hair" wise, but forward recovering from finasteride wise.

If one has issues with gaining weight than, low carb is hard to be appropriate for him. The same applies to sportsmen. It's not entirely true, cortisol will spike high, if in low carb mode. L-Carnitine can provide some help there, since it will prevent you to stop working from turning fat into your fuel.
Other thing is to do immune system and impact with food you have on it. Another thing is to go along with ''digestive momentums''. Somebody prefer carbs in the morning, but most of them (me including) will eat it in the middle day/evening time. Despite the difference, low, or high carbs can be to some degree perfected to be useful with nutritional support. I like idea of not wasting to much time eating, so i focus on having one big fat large carbohydrated, protein rich meal, and fill with one or two other meals to keep me going, when i am empty. Sports weekends are about emptying the fridge, and eat some more.

I think it's generally good idea to be able to convert fat into fuel and whatever fuel into fat. I thing weight gain is mostly about not dealing with toxins, and most importanly - not eating them, if not already in the category of having issue with brain-gut axis and disturbed bioflora. Having that said, having one pound extra can be reason of not be in stress when weighting for another meal.

There was a guy who posted a couple years ago I thnk that said something along the lines of.. he had low carb diet and that's when his hair loss had started

I think you might be referring to danthethinningman? The low carb / baldness issue is something me and him were greatly in agreement with. It may be due to decreased blood pH (acidosis), amongst other problems ketodiets cause. Once again, and like any other stressor, when the blood pH drops, the scalp follicles inflame and hair starts falling out. I can't help but think that this may be further evidence of scalp hair acting as a biological alarm system... anything wrong with the body, follicular inflammation always occurs first before anything life threatening develops.

As an example of many, I quoted a post from another forum about some guy who claimed that his scalp became severely irritated and his hair started falling out when he started smoking bootleg cigs. These cigs are known to contain unregulated levels of arsenic along with many other poisons, and as we read - heat shock / stress proteins increase in response to metallic poisons, too. Interestingly, my mother's own hairline started falling out when she was smoking these bootleg cigs... she has also been diagnosed with kidney disease. I wouldn't be surprised to find out these cigs were the main culprits.

P.S. sorry for taking this thread a little off topic, but here's a 2004 report on these fake cigs and increased levels of lead, arsenic, etc, and how they lead to kidney disease.

Fake cigarettes 'more hazardous'

Can you be sure you know what you're smoking?

The growing number of fake cigarettes coming into the UK contain high levels of hazardous substances, the government has warned in a new campaign.
The fakes are not only illegal but pose an extra health hazard to smokers buying them, warn ministers.

Criminal gangs have the cigarettes made mainly in Eastern Europe and China to look like well-known brands.

More than a million fakes - containing high levels of substances like lead and arsenic - are seized daily in the UK.

Boycott call

The illegal tobacco market grew rapidly during the 1990s, when cigarettes were exported from the UK to avoid tax and then smuggled back in and sold on the black market.

A government campaign managed to stem the supply, but the criminal gangs involved have now switched tactics and started manufacturing fake cigarettes, often sold in pubs, on streets or in markets.

Smuggled goods now make up 15% of the UK cigarette market.

Customs will continue to crack down on this illicit market and the organised criminals who run it  
Customs minister John Healey
The campaign launched on Wednesday is encouraging smokers to boycott the fake goods.

Customs minister John Healey said new research showed buying cigarettes from smuggled sources could be "downright dangerous".

He told BBC News: "Smoking's bad enough but the risk to people's health from these fake cigarettes is even greater.

"These have hugely higher levels of tar, nicotine and some of the cancer-causing chemicals lead and arsenic."

He said 85% of cheap cigarettes sold illegally in London, and more than half of all smuggled cigarettes seized nationally, were counterfeit.

Fake cigarettes used to be easier to spot as the packets sometimes had foreign writing, did not display health warnings, or spelt a brand name incorrectly, a Customs and Excise officer explained.

But now the counterfeits, which replicate many popular brands, have become much more sophisticated.

Kidney disease

In three London hotspots - Holloway Road, Dalston and Whitechapel - officials found all cigarettes tested were counterfeit.

Mr Healey appealed for help from the public in the form of information about where gangs were operating.

Independent research carried out at St Andrews University showed fake cigarettes being sold in the UK contained five times as much cadmium as genuine cigarettes.

Cadmium can severely damage the lungs and is linked with kidney disease.

Fakes also carry nearly six times as much lead, which damages the organs and nervous system, especially in children.

High levels of arsenic, which increases the risks of lung, liver and other cancers, were also found, said Customs.

Further research by an independent laboratory showed counterfeit cigarettes seized by Customs also contained 160% more tar, 80% more nicotine and 133% more carbon monoxide than genuine cigarettes.

The government says any brand can be faked, and many smokers are unaware of the fact cheap cigarettes may not be genuine, nor of the added health risk they contain

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4096911.stm