Prolonged sitting affecting prostate and DHT production?

Take the following with a bro science grain of salt re: the effect on enzyme 5 levels, but, nevertheless, there may be something in this (feedback would be appreciated). I came across the following article which, in summary, states that sitting for long periods can cause a build up of pressure within prostate cells, irritate them, and lead to benign prostate hyperplasia.

Now I know that anti-androgens such as fin are used to reverse BPH, which also (in many cases reverses hair loss). So I'm wondering here... could this pressure be causing cells within the prostate to over-produce enzyme 5, thus leading to increased DHT production and accelerated MPB? The article (as well as other studies I read) states that men who are more physically active tend to have less prostate issues than men whose jobs involve lots of sitting.

Understand here, that I'm in no way citing prolonged sitting as the cause of MPB, rather, I'm just wondering if it could be adding to the problem by causing an over-production in E5AR and DHT.

Impact of sitting on prostate health

Every 6th man in the western world gets prostate cancer. About one of the six dies of it. Vast majority of men (over 90 %) have enlarged prostates at the age of 60. Large number of men use medication that prevents prostate enlargement. Practically all senior men have slower urination because the prostate has grown. The urethra goes through the prostate. When the prostate grows, the passage gets smaller and the urinating slows down. Men are worried about this phenomenon.

So far there has not been any convincing evidence, or rational explanation or theory, about why the prostate grows, has poor health and kills a lot of men. In physiology the interactions are surely very complex. Many factors have various effects and their precise interaction usually remains a mystery even to the best of scholars.

Now there is a new promising theory about what irritates the prostate: traditional sitting! This is very understandable and logical. When sitting on traditional chairs the weight of the upper body, which can be considerable, presses the pelvis. Also we sit for longer periods of time, and men are also heavier than before.

The process goes like this:
Man is sitting down, the sit bones (ischial tuberosities) sink in the padding, the padding presses soft tissues (skin, fat, muscles) between the sit bones trough the pelvic opening into the lower pelvic area.
Pressure field builds up in the lower pelvic area and the pressure spreads out in internal organs which include much more liquid than the body in average (67 %). We know that the pressure spreads out evenly in liquid.
Increased pressure disturbs normal metabolism (lots of classic examples of this in different organs) which, in time, cause dysfunctions and illnesses.
The rational and indirect proofs for the theory that sitting increases prostate problems:
Men who stand more and whose work is physical have 23 % less prostate cancer than office workers, and about half the amount of colorectal cancers.
About 49 % of all cancers of men in Europe concentrate in the region between the sacrum, pubic bone and sit bones (in an area the capacity of which is about one litre) where men have the prostate, bladder, urethra, anus, rectum and part of the colon. As much as 70 % of all those cancers occur in the prostate.
Men who have prostate infection feel pain on all seats, but considerably less on a divided saddle seat where the gap prevents pressure from building up inside the pelvis.
There is a growing number of men, whose already enlarged prostates have shrunk back, even down to 10–11 g level, after they have used a divided saddle chair with about 40 mm wide gap under the pelvic opening. A volunteer who had a test history of 1998–2013 had prostate sizes of 11 g (1998), 18 g (2002), 16 g (2009) and 10 g (2013). The last was verified in two separate measurements with manual and Doppler ultrasound methods. Also the urinary organs were proven to be quite healthy without any indication of malfunction. The prostate, however, showed signs of earlier overgrowth on one side. During 2010–2013 the person sat on a saddle chair with a wider gap (40 mm) than ordinary saddle chairs. Also the count of live semen in his sperm was particularly high (291 million /mm³ of sperm) while the average was 48 million among 19-year-old men in 2013.
The prostate is very close to the skin, just round the edge of the pubic bone, and thus gets a lot of sitting pressure.
Many risk factors have been found, or suspected, to increase prostate cancer. Sitting is a very promising candidate to be the main risk. Before the studies show the right order of the risk factors, it is smart of all men to try to avoid them all and thus decrease the probability of this very unpleasant illness.

Veli-Jussi Jalkanen
Sitting and health specialist, CEO

http://www.salli.com/en/Impact_of_sitting_on_prostate_health

pretty interesting you are looking into this because i was doing the same recently. i started at a corporate job recently.. literally 70% of men there are bald. it honestly freaked me out and was wondering why. i searched around and found that sitting, and this could be slightly off, but they said it was horrible for things like insulin resistance. something like 8 hrs straight of sitting was equivalent of smoking one pack of cigarettes. 90% higher chance of diabetes if you are sitting all day.

so i have a standing desk, so i decided to use it for the entire day. i'm literally exhausted at the end of the day and tired off my ass from stanidng all day. i come home and feel like my entire body is tired.. from only standing. i can see how it can really help your body to stand instead of sit.

i think you could be going somewhere with the prostate though. bad posture definitely relates to pelvic floor muscles getting all fucked up and many forms of prostatis are claimed by the author of headache in the pelvis to actually be pelvic floor muscles being screwed up and not actually some bacterial infection. check the book out, you can probably get it really cheap on amazon or maybe download it.

sanderson wrote:
i think you could be going somewhere with the prostate though. bad posture definitely relates to pelvic floor muscles getting all fucked up and many forms of prostatis are claimed by the author of headache in the pelvis to actually be pelvic floor muscles being screwed up and not actually some bacterial infection. check the book out, you can probably get it really cheap on amazon or maybe download it.

Interesting, maybe those pelvic floor muscle exercises (kegel) would help?  Yes, men can do them too

Yep, Sanderson, I think there needs to be a balance between sitting and standing. If you're exhausted, then you're natural inclination is to sit down to give your legs a rest, as well as recharge.

IDK if there is a definite link between sitting and 5AR over-production, but, if true that it can lead to BPH, then I'd imagine that other prostate abnormalities would be probable. I know that 5AR is not only produced in the prostate, but it is interesting to note that the prostates of fin users shrink while also reporting terminal hair growth.

There might be something in this, but, at this point, I can't find any studies related to sitting and 5AR increase.

ETA: there seems to be lots of conflicting info on which form of enzyme 5 is expressed in the scalp. Some say 5α-R1 whereas others say prostate 5α-R2 is also expressed in scalp tissue.

Apparently zinc and polyunsaturated fats are potent 5α-R inhibitors.

Yes, good to see that. I wonder if riding a bicycle is also bad. Because cyclist seems to have quite good hair. For example Peter Sagan. Maybe the saddle is the problem.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/07July/Pages/Cycling-linked-to-prostate-cancer-but-not-infertility.aspx
Peter Sagan : https://instagram.com/p/3jaNhVMgFk/?taken-by=petosagan

I've posted about this before. My loss really accelerated when I got an office job and there isn't a single person in my office who isn't losing their hair.

My issue is I don't seem to think as well when using a standup desk.

I switched to a standing desk the the beginning of this year, so many health risks from sitting all day. nice summary:



first week was tough. the urge to sit down, pain in my heels.

second week wasn't too bad.

third week, easy.

standing all day now feels completely naturally and effortless and hasn't changed my focus or concentration for the negative at all.

oh, and I lost nearly an inch off my waist month 1, and I'm pretty lean to start with. nuts.

two ikea shelves and a sawn down TV stand for £30, bargain:

I think all of this is relative in some way. Ultimately, from all the dots I've managed to connect, I believe the process works like this: 1. certain males are carriers of the baldness gene 2. At puberty sex steroids are activated 3. Sex steroids trigger the baldness gene 3. The gene causes an abnormal upregulation in immunological receptors within hair follicles 4. Any form of stress (or increase in DHT) causes these cells to come under auto-immune attack 5. They miniaturize to the point where growth factors are switched off.

Point 5 is probably the most problematic. See, if we take minox or even fin as an example; both drugs seem to be most effective in revitalizing a hair follicle when it has only recently miniaturized, yet if a follicle has remained in a state of dormancy for a very long time, then both drugs are generally ineffective, esp. on temple hair. IMO this would suggest that  follicles which have been in a state of redundancy for so long, experience a down-regulation in growth factor receptors to the point of nothing. When growth factor receptors are absent from tissues, then no dietary changes, hormonal changes, life-style changes, etc, will stimulate growth, unless, of course, it is dealt with early enough (before growth factor receptors atrophy).

Don't take that as a cue that these GFR's cannot be re-upregulated or that follicles can't be revitalized, I'm merely saying that we need to find a way to trigger them back into production. Although alopecia areata is slightly different from MPB, in being that testosterone is not the auto-immune trigger in the former, both, however, are still caused by auto-immune attack. Yet, there are cases (many) where alopecia areata sufferers experience complete regrowth after many years or decades of being bald. This would suggest that a) immunological receptors down-regulate b) growth factors are upregulated.

So, when we take that into account, there is hope for us all in experiencing complete regrowth also. it's just a case of finding that elusive switch, so to speak.

ETA:

Fibroblast growth factor signalling in the hair growth cycle: expression of the fibroblast growth factor receptor and ligand genes in the murine hair follicle.
Rosenquist TA1, Martin GR.
Author information
Abstract
Using RNA in situ hybridization analysis, we have characterized the expression domains of the four known members of the FGF receptor-tyrosine kinase gene family in the murine hair follicle at various stages of the hair growth cycle. During anagen, we detected Fgfr1 RNA in the dermal papilla, Fgfr2 RNA in hair matrix cells near the dermal papilla, Fgfr3 RNA in pre-cuticle cells in the periphery of the hair bulb, and Fgfr4 RNA in cells in the periphery of the hair bulb and also in the inner and outer root sheath in the lower half of the follicle neck. No RNA expression of these genes was detected during late catagen or telogen. We have previously shown that Fgf5 is expressed in the outer root sheath in the transient portion of the follicle (Hébert et al. [1994] Cell 78:1017-1025). In the present study we have also assayed for the expression of six other members of the FGF ligand gene family, Fgf3, Fgf4, Fgf6, Fgf7, Fgf8, and Fgf9. Among these FGF genes, only Fgf7 was found to be expressed in the hair follicle. Fgf7 RNA is localized to the dermal papilla during anagen, but expression is down-regulated by the late-anagen VI stage. We have also demonstrated that addition of FGF5 protein to the culture medium changes the behavior of dermal papilla cells in vitro, indicating that they are capable of responding to FGF5. Together with previously published data, these results provide a complete analysis of FGF ligand and FGF receptor-tyrosine kinase gene expression in the hair follicle, and suggest that FGF signalling may have several functions in the hair growth cycle.

Interesting stuff Xenon.

1. For me sitting another small piece of the puzzle ... the puzzle being, how many different ways are modern lifestyles screwing us up. Gut feel: it's the culmination of several lifestyle insults resulting in a compounding effect that makes your hair think, "fuck it, I can't be bothered"

2. And yes, growth factors... that's the nub of all this, isn't it? For me stabilising hair loss has been a fairly simple and obvious process. But how the hell do we reverse hair loss? Gut feel (well, gut hope): we need to go above an beyond regular lifestyle adjustments (topicals, manual, lasers, rollers, inversion etc.) hopefully one or combination of those things = GFR

Columbo wrote:Interesting stuff Xenon.

1. For me sitting another small piece of the puzzle ... the puzzle being, how many different ways are modern lifestyles screwing us up.  Gut feel: it's the culmination of several lifestyle insults resulting in a compounding effect that makes your hair think, "fuck it, I can't be bothered"

2. And yes, growth factors... that's the nub of all this, isn't it? For me stabilising hair loss has been a fairly simple and obvious process.  But how the hell do we reverse hair loss? Gut feel (well, gut hope): we need to go above an beyond regular lifestyle adjustments (topicals, manual, lasers, rollers, inversion etc.) hopefully one or combination of those things = GFR

Hi Columbo

May I ask what your regimen was for stabilizing hair loss, and if you had MPB?

Also, I used to sit almost all day before my MPB started, now I walk for hours and hours a day, and don't sit for too long

There's some research by Gat and Gornish you may find interesting on blood flow in the prostate (you can find it on google scholar). Their theory is that impaired venous flow out of the testes cause venous blood from the testes to flow to the prostate. The prostate is exposed to enormous concentrations of androgens, which causes prostate cancer. The implications for MPB are obvious.

The question is, what causes impaired venous flow in the first place? They attribute it to damaged venous valves, but that's kind of begging the question.

Here

The prostate is an androgen-regulated exocrine gland producing over 30% of the noncellular components of the semen and promoting optimal conditions for survival and motility of sperm in the vagina. Benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) is the most common benign neoplasm in men. Its aetiology is not clear, and therefore, current medical treatments are directed towards the symptoms. Though testosterone is known to be the promoter of prostate cell proliferation, no causal relation between serum testosterone levels and BPH has been found. In this study, we propose a novel and tested pathophysiological mechanism for the evolution of BPH and suggest a tested and effective treatment. We found that in all BPH patients, the one-way valves in the vertically oriented internal spermatic veins are destroyed (clinically manifested as varicocele), causing elevated hydrostatic pressure, some 6-fold greater than normal, in the venous drainage of the male reproductive system. The elevated pressure propagates to all interconnected vessels leading to a unique biological phenomenon: venous blood flows retrograde from the higher pressure in the testicular venous drainage system to the low pressure in the prostatic drainage system directly to the prostate (law of communicating vessels). We have found that free testosterone levels in this blood are markedly elevated, with a concentration of some 130-fold above serum level. Consequently, the prostate is exposed to: (i) increased venous pressure that causes hypertrophy; (ii) elevated concentration of free testosterone causing hyperplasia. We have treated 28 BPH patients using a technique that restores normal pressure in the venous drainage in the male reproductive system. The back-pressure and the back-flow of blood from the testicular to the prostate drainage system were eliminated and, consequently, a rapid reduction in prostate volume and a regression of prostate symptoms took place.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0272.2008.00883.x/full

Testosterone, in its free form (unbound to proteins) diffuses into prostate cells and is known to be the promoter of prostate cell proliferation (Feldman & Feldman, 2001). It is mainly produced by the testes, and under normal conditions, reaches the systemic blood through the testicular venous drainage system (i.e., through the ISV) (Fig. 1). It eventually reaches the prostate via the prostate artery after it has passed through the venous and arterial circulation, where it undergoes marked dilution and more than 98% of it binds to albumin and sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) in which form it is not able to diffuse into the prostatic cells. Upon entering the prostatic cell cytoplasm, 90% of the FT is converted irreversibly by the 5α-reductase enzymes, to DHT - a more potent hormone - which has an obligatory role in the development of BPH. DHT has a more than 5-fold higher affinity for the AR than does FT (Geller, 1992; Chatterjee, 2003).

Columbo wrote:Interesting stuff Xenon.

1. For me sitting another small piece of the puzzle ... the puzzle being, how many different ways are modern lifestyles screwing us up.  Gut feel: it's the culmination of several lifestyle insults resulting in a compounding effect that makes your hair think, "fuck it, I can't be bothered"

2. And yes, growth factors... that's the nub of all this, isn't it? For me stabilising hair loss has been a fairly simple and obvious process.  But how the hell do we reverse hair loss? Gut feel (well, gut hope): we need to go above an beyond regular lifestyle adjustments (topicals, manual, lasers, rollers, inversion etc.) hopefully one or combination of those things = GFR

Well, here's something else that may be worthy of note (if there's any merit to abnormalities in e5ar production): prolonged sitting / bad posture would likely cause a degree of pressure to the liver, also. The liver is situated above the stomach and intestines, so prolonged sitting / bad posture might well be pushing the stomach / intestines against the liver to an extent. The liver is also a site where e5ar is produced, so this *might* be a factor here too. Another worthy mention re: the liver, it is involved in protein synthesis / nutrient metabolism / detoxification, so perhaps thin hair might be related to liver issues -- issues possibly caused by extensive periods of sitting. When Sanderson mentioned extensive sitting being harmful as smoking a pack of cigs, I think the source which he cited could well be correct.

As for reactivating these growth factor receptors... I really don't know at this point. For me, if we can find a way of achieving this, then problem will be solved. We've discovered a myriad ways of preventing inflammation, regrowing a little recently miniaturized hairs, but reactivating GFR's is another story. The DT'rs / boar brushers, towelers, etc, are of the opinion that inflammation can achieve this, but, from my own experience, inflammation is the cause of these receptors downregulating. The reason being, inflammation causes cells to miniaturize so much, that a mutation occurs which causes growth factors to switch off entirely.

It might seem logical that inflammation would cause an increase in growth factors - considering this is what happens with torn muscle tissue / wounded gums, but where follicles are concerned, it seems that they just become weaker and weaker.

Think it affects kidneys any?

Lebrian, nice info, man, thanks. TBH the whole reason I started looking into this issue was down to the fact that I noticed that I became really sexually aroused during extensive periods of sitting. I'd then get the overwhelming urge to fap to Sophie Dee. Now I wondered if this heightened libido was brought on due to the prostate being aggravated from sitting down too much. I noticed also that whenever I'm always active I never get horny - ever. IDK if this is caused by the prostate being aggravated or if it's simply a case of knowing I can instantly access some porn at the click of a button. Whatever the scenario here, remaining physically active really seems to lower my libido to the point of nothing.

Stress sucks, IDK if the issue affects the kidneys, but I just think that too much of it is bad for the body in general. I managed to get rid of my muffin top belly by leading a more proactive life. I only started developing a muffin top / love handles when I became a lazy bastard who used to sit on his ass all day doing very little - other than surfing the net.

Xenon wrote:Lebrian, nice info, man, thanks. TBH the whole reason I started looking into this issue was down to the fact that I noticed that I became really sexually aroused during extensive periods of sitting. I'd then get the overwhelming urge to fap to Sophie Dee. Now I wondered if this heightened libido was brought on due to the prostate being aggravated from sitting down too much. I noticed also that whenever I'm always active I never get horny - ever. IDK if this is caused by the prostate being aggravated or if it's simply a case of knowing I can instantly access some porn at the click of a button. Whatever the scenario here, remaining physically active really seems to lower my libido to the point of nothing.

Stress sucks, IDK if the issue affects the kidneys, but I just think that too much of it is bad for the body in general. I managed to get rid of my muffin top belly by leading a more proactive life. I only started developing a muffin top / love handles when I became a lazy bastard who used to sit on his ass all day doing very little - other than surfing the net.

activity usually increases libido in most folk. when I weight train or do some HIIT my testosterone and libido go up (and general mood). are you sure you're getting enough calories, nutrients, rest, light etc. to support the energy and hormonal systems, that in turn support activity?

Columbo wrote:

Xenon wrote:Lebrian, nice info, man, thanks. TBH the whole reason I started looking into this issue was down to the fact that I noticed that I became really sexually aroused during extensive periods of sitting. I'd then get the overwhelming urge to fap to Sophie Dee. Now I wondered if this heightened libido was brought on due to the prostate being aggravated from sitting down too much. I noticed also that whenever I'm always active I never get horny - ever. IDK if this is caused by the prostate being aggravated or if it's simply a case of knowing I can instantly access some porn at the click of a button. Whatever the scenario here, remaining physically active really seems to lower my libido to the point of nothing.

Stress sucks, IDK if the issue affects the kidneys, but I just think that too much of it is bad for the body in general. I managed to get rid of my muffin top belly by leading a more proactive life. I only started developing a muffin top / love handles when I became a lazy bastard who used to sit on his ass all day doing very little - other than surfing the net.

activity usually increases libido in most folk. when I weight train or do some HIIT my testosterone and libido go up (and general mood). are you sure you're getting enough calories, nutrients, rest, light etc. to support the energy and hormonal systems, that in turn support activity?

IDK, Columbo, I never personally got the urge to fap when I've been busy working or doing a work out lol Not saying you're wrong btw, just something I've never experienced. It might just be down to the fact that my mind / body is focused on a specific task, as opposed to focusing on bare naked ladies.