Weightlifting opinions please

I am a seasoned weightlifter/bodybuilder and had a couple of questions that I cannot seem to find an answer to;

1. Would working out 4-5 times a week impact on hair? I heard somewhere that higher frequency may cause the body to become catabolic?

2. Would 40g of bovine colostrum stimulate muscle growth beyond what the body can generate naturally with just taking an all natural whey powder? I am always looking for that natural alternative to steroids and I think I am about at the point where I see there are none.

Any opinions or experiences shared will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

1. I'm not sure, but many people start to lose their hair, myself included, once they start working out seriously. My current theory is that the more intense of training we do, the more minerals we deplete... especially zinc. However, this could also be chalked up to people deciding to lift weights in early twenties and by that time mpb would've kicked in at that time, and rate, regardless if they lifted or not.

2. No, this was talked about a lot many years back, but nothing ever came of it. If it did work as a natural alternative, we'd be hearing about it everywhere. The only way you can get an edge without going over to the dark side, is creatine and a stimulant like caffeine. However, creatine does cause a spike in DHT levels after your loading phase, and whether or not this is significant enough to cause noticeable damage in hair is not something I'm willing to gamble with. I've used creatine in the past though, and its one of the few supplements I really notice working.

I'd agree with Son of Odin on the assessment of colustrum. I believe quality colostrum is a useful bodybuilding supplement. Bovine colustrum is high in IGF-1, which has anabolic effects. It should be taken together with a higher protein meal, which protects these factors from the protease activity in the upper GI tract. These will have protein accreting effects and, along with a good insulin spike post-workout with some BCAAs and carbohydrate, can really help protein synthesis, not to mention just make the muscles look fuller. It will also help make glycogen repletion more efficient.

But at the end of the day, there are no alternatives to a steroid, period. The demand for that alternative is so great that if any common commercial product were the real deal, you'd definitely know about it by now. But bottom line, there is nothing that can replace steroidal signals. There's a reason gear is so popular in the bodybuilding community. It takes you above your baseline genetic potential. There is nothing else that can do that, unless you start getting into the peptide hormones like GH. But the IGF-1 in colostrum can potentiate your natural GH release.

Without using steroids, the only real body-building supplements that remain tried and true are protein powders, creatine, BCAA. And secondarily, pre-workouts if they improve your workout performance. And in general, any supplement geared at overall nutrition (vitamins, minerals: especially pro-testosterone ones) will indirectly support greater muscle gain. Sleep and solid food diet are more important than any of them, but you know that. But I feel you man. I haven't been at my tip top for a while, trying to get back there. But I've been there and at some point you do start considering trying to take things beyond the plateau. It doesn't help that if you observe the industry, every personality there is geared up, even just the fitness guys like Steve Cook.

It sucks but even the greats we look at as classic era - Arnold and Zane, etc. - were all on D-bol and Tren.

On the topic of workout frequency. Its really going to be totally unique to the individual. There's evidence that weight bearing exercise increases testosterone, but that in the long term it actually boosts SHBG so your fraction of free test won't change that much. But there are other variables than just the testosterone. Weight training represents a stress on the body, and stress hormones are naturally part of the response. You're getting all kinds of vasodilatory signals, things like histamine, NO2, catecholamines, etc. So the question you are describing is really asking how long is the exposure of these hormones to circulation during and post exercise, how high do concentrations get, how long do they remain elevated, and what do these numbers mean for the hair follicle? Its one of those really complex questions whose answer probably won't get here for a long time. On top of that then you have to start factoring in other questions...okay, so we are getting this hormonal stimulus from workout A, how does all this data change if we lower the workout frequency, but presumably increase the workout intensity to make up for the reduced frequency? If I had to guess, I doubt there is going to be a whole ton of difference between doing 4-5 workouts a week, versus 2-3 where the intensity is higher.

I'd just focus on your priorities for your body because there won't be a sure-fire answer when it comes to hair. It might hurt, it might not, but are you going to compromise the way you lift to achieve your bodybuilding goals? It probably wouldn't be worth it. I liken it to arguments about sexual activity. I don't see any sense in reducing behaviors which we derive great benefit or pleasure from when the evidence can't support it, but only intuition can.

I could make an argument that sunlight could be bad for hair. I could make an argument that any and all sugar is bad for hair. I could make an argument that having sex with your girlfriend more than once a week is bad for hair. There are a lot of exposures in life that we could draw lines to connect to hair loss, and if we tried to avoid them all absolutely, we'd be in a fucking bubble. I would never compromise the things I get the greatest value from in life, even if it meant I got an extra year or two with hair. And from the sounds of it, you value lifting.

EDIT: Haha. Renky, I didn't realize it was you until after I typed this out. No man, keep doing your thing. You got the Arnold from TII build yet?

Thanks for your replies, much appreciated.

So it sounds like bovine colostrum is a waste of time? I had heard that the research done was on lower doses and that doses of around 40g was the way to go for results? I guess there is no magic bullet after all...

AS54 - Sorry about that, I hope I didn't mislead you at all... I am getting closer to the Terminator 2 physique. Chest 48", arms 18" and weight is about 210lbs. I will never match Arnold though... As you mentioned, he was taking dianabol, primobol and possibly other things... You are right though, the whole bodybuilding industry is governed by what the magazines show and those guys are typically not natural. It is frustrating and hopefully the industry get's better. I am very lost when it comes to altering hormone levels etc and don't even understand how steroids and growth hormones work to be honest. Best I can understand is that they artificially alter the body's natural processes and then things just get messed up. Steroid use seems to be a growing issue from what I can see in my area of the world. I see so many guys in their late teens to early 20's and they are bigger than me. Not that I am saying I am anything fabulous or anything, it is just that I have been working out off an on since I was 15. I am at the size I am now after years of d-e-d-i-c-a-t-i-o-n to lifting weights and good diet. You see these young guys that have been maybe lifting 12 months to 2 years and they look like they could line up for the Mr. America contest. How about all those actors that star in the action movies with only 6 months of gym action to get in shape? Most people believe it, but when I talk to friends and explain how long I have lifted and they see my shape, I think they then realize that perhaps other "supplements" were used.

I am wondering if the only true supplementation that works is whey powder? Just something to elevate the protein levels to assist with the muscle recovering? I have taken a lot of the various supplements including Creatine. I am very skeptical of most supplements now and really doubt their effectiveness. With Creatine, I even doubt this supplement to an extent. When I was on it, I just wonder if I only had the "puffy" effects (water retention?) and that was all? Maybe the truth is that we all have a genetic potential and when you arrive, it is like hitting a wall with regards to making "gains"?

I appreciate the kind words about my training experience. I feel though that you are way more knowledgeable than I with regards to biology and nutrition. I have stream lined training and exercise methodology by researching guys like Victor Costa (Vics Natural on Youtube) and Brian Haycock (inventor of HST training). At the moment I am following the HST principals and some of Victor Costa's exercise execution strategies. Speaking of Victor Costa... I am probably pretty close to his physique with regards to measurements. He is a little more defined than I and his arms are about 1/2" to 3/4" larger than mine (with a crazy biceps peak). I saw that Victor recently said he does not take any Creatine either as he feels it is another "thing" the body has to process. It looks like he eats a very natural/holistic diet... And he's natural...

A friend of mine (who is a natural bodybuilder) is very big and has arms of probably 20". I take my friend at his word that he is natural, so he just must have amazing genetics. One thing he said to me was that he took really high amounts of whey powder. Which leads me to another question..... Does high protein diet with a lot of whey do damage?

Renky wrote:Thanks for your replies, much appreciated.

So it sounds like bovine colostrum is a waste of time? I had heard that the research done was on lower doses and that doses of around 40g was the way to go for results? I guess there is no magic bullet after all...

AS54 - Sorry about that, I hope I didn't mislead you at all... I am getting closer to the Terminator 2 physique. Chest 48", arms 18" and weight is about 210lbs. I will never match Arnold though... As you mentioned, he was taking dianabol, primobol and possibly other things... You are right though, the whole bodybuilding industry is governed by what the magazines show and those guys are typically not natural. It is frustrating and hopefully the industry get's better. I am very lost when it comes to altering hormone levels etc and don't even understand how steroids and growth hormones work to be honest. Best I can understand is that they artificially alter the body's natural processes and then things just get messed up. Steroid use seems to be a growing issue from what I can see in my area of the world. I see so many guys in their late teens to early 20's and they are bigger than me. Not that I am saying I am anything fabulous or anything, it is just that I have been working out off an on since I was 15. I am at the size I am now after years of d-e-d-i-c-a-t-i-o-n to lifting weights and good diet. You see these young guys that have been maybe lifting 12 months to 2 years and they look like they could line up for the Mr. America contest. How about all those actors that star in the action movies with only 6 months of gym action to get in shape? Most people believe it, but when I talk to friends and explain how long I have lifted and they see my shape, I think they then realize that perhaps other "supplements" were used.

I am wondering if the only true supplementation that works is whey powder? Just something to elevate the protein levels to assist with the muscle recovering? I have taken a lot of the various supplements including Creatine. I am very skeptical of most supplements now and really doubt their effectiveness. With Creatine, I even doubt this supplement to an extent. When I was on it, I just wonder if I only had the "puffy" effects (water retention?) and that was all? Maybe the truth is that we all have a genetic potential and when you arrive, it is like hitting a wall with regards to making "gains"?

I appreciate the kind words about my training experience. I feel though that you are way more knowledgeable than I with regards to biology and nutrition. I have stream lined training and exercise methodology by researching guys like Victor Costa (Vics Natural on Youtube) and Brian Haycock (inventor of HST training). At the moment I am following the HST principals and some of Victor Costa's exercise execution strategies. Speaking of Victor Costa... I am probably pretty close to his physique with regards to measurements. He is a little more defined than I and his arms are about 1/2" to 3/4" larger than mine (with a crazy biceps peak). I saw that Victor recently said he does not take any Creatine either as he feels it is another "thing" the body has to process. It looks like he eats a very natural/holistic diet... And he's natural...

A friend of mine (who is a natural bodybuilder) is very big and has arms of probably 20". I take my friend at his word that he is natural, so he just must have amazing genetics. One thing he said to me was that he took really high amounts of whey powder. Which leads me to another question..... Does high protein diet with a lot of whey do damage?

Absolutely on the genetics thing. Its the big fallacy of almost any athletic activity..."Oh, I want Frank's program because if I lift like him I'll look like him". Haha, no you won't. Nobody will. Or when someone says they want to lift to look like a certain type of athlete. You could put two people on identical diets and identical lifting programs and the two could be different sizes at the end of a year on the program. Some people are just blessed with their ability to pack on muscle. I find that shorter stockier guys tend to bulk up more easily, and not just in the sense that their muscles are shorter. Take me for example, at 5'10'' I throw on muscle basically by just wishing for it. I could do a shit program, but if I'm eating enough calories, I'll load on muscle. I've got friends though at like 6'1'' and 6'3'' and they have an extremely difficult time adding muscle mass, even though they work their asses off and eat a ton. That being said, when they do add on muscle they look like Greek gods. Take Zyzz for example, tall/skinny/ectomorph packed on muscle and he probably had one of the most aesthetic physiques I've ever seen.

I love Vic Cos. I think he's got that mix of muscular and aesthetic. Even if I could, I'd never want to get Jay Cutler big. I don't think its functional or attractive, so outside of that olympia circle, its not doing for him what I'd want it to do for me (I say this while he sits in his million dollar kitchen eating a meal prepared by a personal chef haha). 18'' arms is pretty big man. Definitely nothing to scoff at. And if you aren't a naturally built guy (not sure what your natural build is), then its even more impressive.

And I hear you about the rampant steroid use. For me, it isn't so much a problem with steroid use as it is how these kids are being introduced (indoctrinated) into that side. Ya know, I'm going to be 26 - so its not like I was around for the bodybuilding golden age - but even as I grew up there was a different kind of culture around bodybuilding. When you were young and decided you wanted to lift, you'd find a gym, walk in a be this new guy amongst experienced lifters and be totally out of place. It would take you weeks of acclimating to the culture and to how to train properly before you were kind of "accepted" into that tribe. At least that's how I felt back when I got introduced. It would take a while and you'd have to advance yourself before some seasoned guy might take you aside after a workout and ask if you wanna learn about his cycle. Nowadays, within 20 minutes of deciding he wants to be a bodybuilder, a kid will be on a forum looking at the latest and greatest cycle. There is a lot lost there to me, not only for the body, but also for the mind. It was an experience, a character builder, all of those things to do it the longer way, to get to your genetic potential over a couple of years of working your ass off and experimenting with diet. Now, kids want that edge before they have even set foot in a gym and they're finding sources to get GH, test, etc. from overseas before they've even got a year lifting under their belt.

Again, I believe steroids can be used intelligently. But I think developing that sort of intelligence and responsibility comes from those first couple of years in the trenches just hacking along, building your tool box up full of character traits like discipline and self-control. There is something lost on the modern bodybuilding culture for this, and these kids don't even have a reference for what to expect out of their bodies. How can you if you haven't trained it yourself and beaten the shit out of it to know were you max out...only then can you really externalize the concept of a steroid and go in with an informed and responsible expectation for what you want to get out of a cycle. These kids just see Jay and Phil and know they want that, and that's it. There is a lot of learning that needs to happen between that desire and the decision to use steroids.

But a steroid is just a hormone, and all hormones are just a signal. They are the body's way of letting cells communicate with other cells. The signal attaches to a cell (diffused into a cell for the steroids) and causes all kinds of messengers to be produced that enter the nucleus and transcribe DNA. With testosterone you are getting all kinds of anabolic signals for protein synthesis. So really, adding a steroid isn't altering the body's natural process. It is the body's natural process, you are just adding more of the "signal". So you might have X amount of protein synthesis happening with your given testosterone level, but you add in some more, you get an increase. That's all that is really happening. And the benefits are increased muscle mass, greater endurance, greater ability to perform in a workout, which just feeds back and helps add more muscle. Almost every steroid is some form of testosterone with functional groups added that once it hits the blood/liver, will get metabolized into regular testosterone.

And that's the real danger with steroids. Your body has intricate means for managing its hormone levels, through feedback. When you start adding to the testosterone pool by injecting it (once you get up around the 400-500 mg/week mark) you cause the brain to release less LH, which in turn, causes the testicles to make less of your own testosterone (often why guys who use a lot will have their balls shrink on a cycle). So depending on how intelligently you go about a cycle, you could wind up screwing up the HPA/HPG axis. In addition, steroids are difficult on the liver simply for the fact you are increasing its metabolic load. Combined, you can also disrupt your body's lipids, so monitoring that is crucial.

If we're talking natural, the whey protein is hands-down the best bodybuilding supplement. And not because it has some super secret ingredient, just because it provides extra amino acids. Protein synthesis is rate limited by that availability. A high protein diet is key, "high" being relative. 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight is fine and is probably ideal. A high protein diet will do no damage to your body, assuming there aren't preexisting conditions which have compromised the kidneys, like diabetes. In those instances, the high protein can be harmful but there is no evidence that high protein is detrimental in person with normal kidney function.

I like BCAA just because of the leucine content and its participation in MTOR signalling. Along with insulin this sequence is really important for stimulating muscle growth, which is why I think carbohydrate/protein/BCAA post workout is so great.

Creatine is take it or leave it. The real benefit of creatine is what it can do for a workout, which is to help you squeeze out more work in a set where your muscle would regularly fail. Creatine is like a high-stress backup system for the body. Most of the time, the concentration of ATP in the muscle can only support contraction for a couple of seconds. But we evolved the phosphocreatine system for times of fight-or-flight stress where the ability to go a little longer might mean we live. This system resynthesizes ATP using creatine and CK enzyme. So adding creatine to your regimen can help increase your endurance, meaning you get more reps, meaning more muscle damage, with the assumption being a greater adaptive response and more muscle. So for that its valuable, but its indirect. It still relies on you doing that much more with whatever increased capacity it gives you. Definitely not essential.

I did a round of bovine colostrum. I noticed it helped with recovery time and my immune system. That being said, it didn't impress me enough to keep spending the money on it.

Thin in FL - Thanks for sharing your experience with the colostrum.

AS54 - Thanks for taking the time to explain how steroids act on the body. That was a real deal education for me. Thanks.

I think I am going to stick with higher protein diet and whey. At the moment I am ingesting about 117grams of protein via the all natural whey I drink. The rest of my protein comes from my diet (cottage cheese, meat, milk etc). Even with that amount of whey, I may still be coming a bit short? I may need to ingest a bit more whey? Over the next 4 months, I am going to try and dial my diet in a bit better now that I have my workout routine sorted and see what happens. I am sitting at around 210lbs and would guess body fat is around 16% (rough guess).

I have looked at those genetic potential calculators where you put in your height, wrist and ankle size etc and it looks like I am nearing my genetic potential. However, when I speak to other natural guys, they say don't put much stock in those. So I am not sure...

Victor Costa rocks and his whole diet regimen seems like it would fit in well with the IH way of life. That is why I like the guy and believe he is natural. He has a very good physique for sure. I would like to get closer to him with arms. My arms go from about 15.5" un-flexed and cold to about 18" flexed and cold. My arms become noticeable when I flex them. Most guys on the juice have that full puffy look to them I think.

Another natural guy I like is Jeff Willet. He was an AST guy that competed in the natural competitions, but he looked big enough to compete in the main competitions in my opinion. Although, his physique was not so bloated looking like the IFBB guys now. There is another guy by the name of Skip Lacour that claims to be natural too.

I am starting to hit the triceps harder now being that these muscles take up 2/3rds of the arm anyway. If I can get to 18.5" arms, I am done. I would not want to get any bigger than that. Just too cumbersome getting around. I am not really wanting to grow my chest much anymore now and my shoulders are very close to what I want, so I am already tapering off the muscle gain focus and already starting to shift to maintenance. Arms are just not quite there yet...

Thanks!

Anybody competing at high levels in the IFBB natural sections can still, and probably should, be assumed to be on testosterone at the very least. The funny thing is that by going natural, you're really just limiting yourself to the steroids you can use. If one of them are doing it, all of them are. Same deal with more pro athletics. There is some kind of artificial enhancement happening everywhere. Hell, look at the Lance Armstrong incident. The other top 100 riders were all getting fixed, he was just the Shakespearean tragedy, he got the focus because it was the bigger headline but you know damn well if you take away drugs from the picture, you'd eliminate probably the top couple hundred in the sport. Same deal in MLB. Its everywhere. The level of competition, business interest, and financial interest at these levels guarantees these guys are getting an edge wherever they can and there are parties interested in seeing that "trainers" get them access to whatever enhancement they need and are likely to get away with.

To get a "steroid" look, I had to cut alcohol out of my diet, write down what I was going to eat, when I was going to eat it, write down my work outs... when I was going to do them, what I was doing to do... get adequate sleep, and essentially like like a robot. Women generally notice roiders vs. non-roiders, and the types of women that fall for roiders are also the types that you do not want to associate with as they are generally not the brightest bulbs on the tree (no offense to those women, just one man's observation).

My point is that women, being 10x better at non-verbal communication than men (and 90% of ALL communication is non-verbal), can perceive reality significantly better than we can. Women appreciate a good, natural build more than anything. Show women a picture of Zac Efron on the cover of a Maxim magazine vs. any fitness cover, and see how many prefer his physique over the the latter, regardless off how famous the latter may be. There are not shortcuts to being healthy!

My thoughts exactly, about weightlifting in general. Despite the very un-natural muscular appearance one can get from ''doing it right'' in the gym, i find many reasons that are keeping me from being involved in weight lifting. For example i don't find it time worthy obsession that has potential to bring more value to my life than just obsessing more about the look and physical appearance. Essentially even looking from health perspective, there are potential problems that are many times connected with weightlifting, joint ware and muscle stiffness and lack of flexibility are the ones that built my stereotype based by the info i got from the weightlifting scenes from my geographic area.

For the steroids; when one going on steroids this is for me no different as wearing transplant or a wig from hair loss perspective comparison.
There is a lot of exercises that can build muscles, don't require social stimulus from the ''robots'' and in turn make you healthier. I am not saying people in the gym are dumb, but saying that there are odds to meet people that look on the life as from the perspective of muscles, proteins, supplements and steroids and not much more than that. Of course you can meet plenty different (interesting) people in the gym, but they are mostly not the ones that will be on the cover of fitness and weightlifting magazines thus - not doing it right in eyes of the ones the industry of weightlifting is about.

I don't try to judge any people, but think there is far more ways to get the testosterone, feel good hormones, and social stimulus.

My view on life suggest these guys get a way more chicks than weight lifters and follow more balanced lifestyle to get there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9xxeWRxSbA

Thanks again for the replies...

AS54 - Isn't Testosterone a form of a steroid? Is it safe and legal? I am not sure how guys like Jeff Willet would get around it with the massive drug testing they do in the natural competitions? All this talk about steroids is making me wonder what a natural really needs to be doing at the end of the day in order to create the right environment for hypertrophy. CS talks about raising testosterone naturally with the IH supps. Is this all we need to do? I was trying DHEA (doses between 5mg to 30mg per day). People advised this was very bad for hair, so I bailed on this experiment... A part of me wonders though... Would a short term run of DHEA at higher doses (say 100mg a day) for about 4 weeks be enough to jolt some hypertrophy? I would then cut it as I do not want to run the risk of side effects on hair etc. Thoughts? Dumb idea?

Niddhodge - I have never been a "drinker" and usually consume plain old H2O... I agree about your observations with what women prefer. My wife and sister in-laws all DISLIKE the Pro Bodybuilder (of the likes of Ronnie Coleman etc) look. I am not into that look either... Arnold was always my hero, but Frank Zane was more realistic to me.

Beebrox - I get what you are saying... I run my own small business and have a number of interests. For me though, bodybuilding is always that activity I enjoyed. I am not sure I would call it a sport, but it keeps me active, fit, healthy and I believe that if you do it correctly with a good diet and training strategy, it is slows aging.

Renky,

Yeah absolutely, testosterone is a steroid.

Its kind of interesting how they test for it. Testosterone exists, within the body, in a ratio of about 1:1 (for adults) to epitestosterone. That means if a guy is supplementing with large amounts of exogeneous test, his ratio of T/E will be thrown off. I believe a failing test is any T/E urine ratio of 4:1 or greater. But this isn't proof, this can only be a signal for subsequent testing.

Next, they will again use a urine sample and send it through a mass spectrophotometer, which can tell the different isotopes of the atoms therein. Most life on earth consists of carbon-12 with a little bit of carbon-13. Evolution has slightly favored the C-12 isotope so most life has a distinctive ratio of the C-12/C-13. But for pharmaceuticals, which are not created naturally through the course of evolution, it will typically contain more C-13. Thus a urine analysis can show if there is a great deal of "foreign" testosterone in the body.

Growth hormone is also a problem, but there is no reliable testing for it. Blood tests are unreliable and there isn't a urinary test, for this or any of the other pro-GH peptides. You're seeing a lot of accusations of IGF use in pro sports.

But with the testosterone, the way most of these guys get around it is with designer steroids. Every compound has a "clearance rate" from the body and for many of the steroids, these times are well-established. So all a natty lifter has to do is time his cycle appropriately so that he's off the gear in time for it to leave his system. Either that or join a league where there isn't testing. Some only force polygraphs and give a urine test to the winners.

I used to avoid heavy exercise because it would always cause my hair to shed... that was until I discovered the cause: lactic acid. Strong muscular contractions / intense cardio cause the muscles to produce lots of lactic acid. When we sweat from the scalp, lactic acid is also sweated out, which, if left to linger on the scalp, will build up inside the follicle and cause inflammation.

When I started washing my hair after a work out I found that my scalp had stopped inflaming; now I work out for an hour every day (except Sunday) and all is well with my hair.

The weather has been really warm and humid lately, so I was feeling very lethargic and could not perform to my optimum... drinking plenty of water helped a tad in terms of rehydrating my body from so much sweating, but that wasn't enough to get rid of the lethargy. So I started dabbing lots of cool water all over my face, torso, and muscles... this allowed me to cool down to core temperature, the lethargic feeling instantly vanished and I could exercise so much easier and for longer.

Xenon - Thanks for sharing your experience. I tend to agree with you about this. On hot days, I tend to shower and cool the scalp. Mostly though, I have cut back my workouts to about 10 -25 minute sessions. I am training HST style these days, so the frequency is higher (based on latest studies - Wernbom) and sessions are shorter. Results for me are better also. I find that by the time I start to heat up, I am finished the workout.

AS54 - Thanks again for the education on how the body works and the ins and outs. I appreciate you taking the time. Most of that was all quite foreign to me. It sounds like you are involved in Pharmaceuticals or at least have a very strong Science background?

Where are you guys at with your training by the way? If you go to Victor Costa's website, you will see his steroid test. It is foreign to me, but I thought you would be interested in reading it?

Did anyone have an opinion on doing a 4 week cycle of DHEA at doses of up to 100mg a day, or is this just plain stupid? I am very curious if this would bust a plateau and help generate muscle growth? I would not want to take DHEA for too long though as I think it would end up going against me.

Renky, I'm only 3 months into my training but I'm completely hooked. I still have a muffin top belly, so I've been doing lots of cardio (boxercising) + crunches and side planks, in addition to more calisthenic exercises.

Today I boxercised for many hours because I need to up the ante to get rid of this stubborn belly fat which basically accumulated from being a couch potato for so long.

Any other tips to lose belly fat and get a six pack?

P.S. I don't consume more than 700 cals per day (low fat too), could such low calories be causing my body to store fat maybe?

Xenon wrote:Renky, I'm only 3 months into my training but I'm completely hooked. I still have a muffin top belly, so I've been doing lots of cardio (boxercising) + crunches and side planks, in addition to more calisthenic exercises.

Today I boxercised for many hours because I need to up the ante to get rid of this stubborn belly fat which basically accumulated from being a couch potato for so long.

Any other tips to lose belly fat and get a six pack?

P.S. I don't consume more than 700 cals per day (low fat too), could such low calories be causing my body to store fat maybe?

hey xenon i went on a raw diet (lots green veggies, low fruit, salmon/turkey/meat every other day) 2 months ago and fat everywhere just disappeared, while overall looks improved massively. i have a 6 pack light without even working out now and still spending 10 h per day on my chair.

@believeinit; awesome stuff. I hope I get a six pack soon enough. My stomach is noticeably flatter, but still have a muffin top.

I used to have my laptop resting on my stomach for long periods when I was in bed, I could actually feel oxygen being choked off, which resulted in fat gathering around my gut. Another thing which produced the same sensation, was wearing a tight belt (and pants) around my waist, this also seemed to cause fat to gather around my hips and gut. I know that sounds like bullshit, but it really was something I closely observed. I think that wearing loose pants, as well as keeping the laptop off my stomach will result in better oxygen delivery and hopefully have the reverse effect.

It's all in the diet, Xenon...well, mostly. To be honest, I believe Fortress is the greatest when it comes to teaching bodyweight exercise to become ridiculously ripped. It has helped me when I started and it would certainly help you all, too. He may post some off-topic videos of Christianity or other things of that nature, but he truly knows his shit. Being into fitness for a long time, I have NEVER seen someone who explains it so clearly:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCajFsJ74oE4zt3sPkOP_81g

EDIT: Look up his guides on best exercises for _____________.

With dieting and trimming out the excess fat, I am not sure I am the most knowledgeable... For me, I found my greatest success in dropping body fat was doing the 5:2 diet. I dropped around 10-11lbs in a matter of 4-6 weeks... Very noticeable and the biggest thing about my experience on the 5:2 diet was that it does not appear that I lost much in the way of muscle. Hardly any muscle lost and when I measured my arms, I believe I actually kept growing. I think the secret there was I did not do any cardio and just kept weight lifting. Some say that when you diet hard, you should lift heavier weights in order to stop the muscle waste.

Does anyone have any thoughts on taking DHEA at high doses for a short period?

Thanks.

Growdammit - I liked that young man's video clips. You are right, he seems to have a good plan with training and I personally thought he obtained a good physique from just body weight exercises. One thing I felt I needed to caveat though... If you are a bit older (like me who is nearing 40), some of those exercises would not be possible due to wrist and shoulder issues. For me, the jarring movements up on the bar would smash my wrists and shoulders up real bad... If you re younger, you could probably handle it ok...

Thanks Damnit and Renky... that Fortress guys vids are great. I'm some way off that level of fitness, but I think I've done well considering I'm an ex smoker, couch potato and 35 years old. I had to have the patience to not overly exert my body in the beginning because my body would be in too much pain to continue the next day or so, so I started off from doing ten push ups per day, now I can do 100... same with every other exercise, except for the side planks! I've only just started doing them, but, from what I've read, they are supposed to be awesome for abs / obliques.

Planks are great for core, but nothing beats leg lifts (knee lifts if you can't yet), and two-touch crunches. Anyone can do bodyweight exercises regardless of age. No need to have yanking or jarring motions on the bar. Form is the most important thing, and if you skip that, you're cheating yourself.

If you can't do one pull up, go all the way up with the assistance of a chair, then lower yourself slowly. Can't do push ups? Do them on knees. You can adjust everything for your body until you adapt.

Bump

Any opinions on my question about taking DHEA in high doses for a short period?

Thanks.

DHEA can be useful, imo, for intermittent bursts, especially during times of high stress when the adrenals are taxed. DHEA has been shown to improve symptoms and also sexual function in individuals with adrenal insufficiency.

However, there may be greater systemic effects from DHEA that aren't yet known. It is basically a prohormone, and since it can be converted into several other hormones fairly upstream in the cascade, it can be converted into both testosterone and estrogen. It is first converted to androstenedione, which is subsequently converted to T and E. For that reason, you can experience both androgenic and estrogenic effects from DHEA supplementation, and its difficult to predict how your body will manage things, as there are a multitude of factors which determine androgen:estrogen balance in humans.

It would be like throwing a bunch of pregnenalone at yourself, which then just begs the question of why you don't just increase dietary cholesterol, know what I mean?

There is also speculation that DHEA may have direct effects on brain chemistry. In addition, prolonged and high dose DHEA use has been shown to reduce both thymus and adrenal weight in rodents, suggesting some kind of feedback inhibition on your own organ function. For that reason, DHEA should be cycled at the very least. Interestingly, removal of the ovaries in the rats tested completely eliminated these effects of DHEA, suggesting some kind of complex interaction between DHEA and the more potent sex hormones. The simple picture seems to be that DHEA, by itself, acts more along the lines of a typical androgen and is immune inhibitory, which is why thymic reduction isn't as marked in ovariectomized rats where estrogen levels are reduced.

Overall, it depends on your goal. Are you looking for a short term testosterone boost? I would use DHEA short term and relatively high dose and cycle off within a matter of weeks. Take an equal amount of time off as you were on.

For adrenal support, it should be handled similarly, and do it proactively. If you know you are going to have a shit week, or some new life challenge, or you are just feeling beat to hell, it can be medicine for a week or two. But I would hesitate to stay on it for weeks on end.

Overall, if general hormonal balance is what you are after, I think its best achieved with dietary cholesterol and fat-soluble vitamins, combined with sufficient food energy and sleep.

AS54 - Thanks for your reply.

Overall, I am pretty healthy. I take all the IH supplements + some others. With taking DHEA, I am only interested in seeing if it will increase the Testosterone levels in me and if this will help me through a plateau. I may just be closing in on my genetic potential and that is it, but there is a side of me that is curious to see if I truly am. I have wondered about DHEA and figured that maybe this could give me a leg up so to speak? I would never be on it for more than two weeks though.

What might the side effects be? If they are bad and DHEA is not good for you, then I will just forget all about it.

What kind of doses are too high? I read a study where 150mg of DHEA was taken daily for 12 weeks and there was no benefit with regards to lean body mass. Maybe this pro-hormone is not worth it?