What is the most potent topical to KILL ALL BACTERIA on the scalp?

There seems to be a connection between MPB and bacteria:

http://www.hairsite2.com/library/article212.htm

Bacteria Induced Baldness - 10 HairSite Regulars Participated In Growth Response's Free Trial


A little background: on May 15th, 2002, Kathrin, a new participant in the Support Forum, posted about a certain shampoo and conditioner that completely stopped her hair loss in one week. The product is called Growth Response. According to the inventor of Growth Response, hair loss may be caused by certain bacterial activities that can be easily cured using a certain shampoo and conditioner.
It wasn't long (two days to be exact) when Pants & Tyler Durden enticed Growth Response to offer 10 HairSite regulars a free trial of the products. Regulars who are currently known to be in this program are: Chris, Hardwo0d, Jean, JohnUK, LIF, Pants, Sara, Trey, Tyler Durden.

Tyler Durden's Interview With Growth Response

Reprint of Tyler Durden's post in Waseda's forum # 34
http://www.hairsite7.com/m569zo34/_disc569/00000193.htm



I talked to the inventor of "Growth Response" last night over the phone. This is what he had to say. Bear in mind, this is basically a synopsis of the notes I took whilst talking to him -- it's not verbatim unless I quote him. Just a warning, folks: this is *long*. Took awhile to type up referencing my notes.

THE INVENTOR'S PERSONAL BACKGROUND, HOW HE CAME TO CREATE THE PRODUCT :
He has been the owner of a manufacturing plant for hair products, for 23 years, and has an intricate knowledge of the business. It is located in the San Fernando valley in California. He says formulating products is a science and an art. He developed the product because of his own personal hairloss problem. Trying various 'traditional' hair growth products, he got no results (he felt something was missing) and decided to do his own personal research but didn't know where to begin.

He went to Columbia, and talking to his brother, he learned that there was a man based in Columbia who claimed he could grow hair. In speaking with this man, he learned of a product for [yeast] infections taken internally called "tekonazol". This drug as a side-effect *can* grow hair, but one of the side effects is impotence, therefore, he tried other substances along the same lines (anti-microbial) but without these side effects.

Basically from there he researched and began to experiment. He says primarily he researched bacteria and found that they are capable of moving from one place to another on the body, mutating and adapting to build resistance to common antibacterial agents, etc. His opinion is that hairloss is due to a bacteria imbalance within the body, demonstrated through the hair. He experimented with anti-microbial substances until he found a combination that worked for him. 45 days later, he had noticeable new hair growth -- vellous hairs -- which as weeks passed became stronger.

An example he gave of the adaptability of organisms: In 1995, a doctor from the department of energy was hired to explore the bottom of the Johannesburgh gold mine, and found that in the deepest part of it that there was bacterial life, even in this toxic environment. They live off nutrients, and can survive many hazardous situations. Researchers now believe bacteria may have a lot to do with cancers; he said take a look at many products on today's market -- they are anti-microbial. They prefer humid, nutrient-rich environments, and a prime habitat is the head. He brings up the point that the hair/scalp takes so long to dry, even when we attempt to blow-dry our hair/scalp. Water is an essential element to life, including bacterial life. (Tyler's note: honey [HAIRBACK] is anti-microbial, Nizoral shampoo which has long been used by hairloss sufferers is anti-fungal). Infection can progress without our even noticing it; we scratch our heads, have unsanitary practices, etc. The richest source of the nutrients are on the top of the head, hence the basic pattern (bacteria prefer it).

He sees a lot of talk about testosterone. He says if it all comes down to that, then 1) why are the younger generation of men nowadays losing hair more than ever, and 2) why are women losing hair more and more as well? These help the body win the fight against bacteria; today, we have weaker immune systems due to improper diet/toxicity in the environment, etc. He said there is a 'war' going on, that we cannot see -- microbes vs. us. AIDS, and other diseases, are taking their toll on the world. Ask any doctor he said, athlete's foot (fungus) is one of the toughest conditions to get rid of, just like yeast infections in women. Once you have it, it's there and takes a lot to knock it out.

He disagrees with the notion that hair is "dead" material. He says hair loss can be seen as a message from some other part of the body. People enduring chemotherapy or radiation treatments lose their hair, and when that ordeal is over, 6-8 weeks later they begin to get their hair back. It's a way for the body to say that it's going through a fight. Hair is very, very sensitive and is a *receptor* of anything that happens in your body. In a sense, it's an indication of the rest of the body's status.

Back in Columbia where he met the man from whom he got the idea for the product (and a number of the ingredients), the man told him that he could tell there were other issues in his body, from the limp, lifeless look and condition of his hair. In this way, hairloss is a signal of a bacterial imbalance in the body; baldness is a sign that organisms have taken over in the scalp. Various foods that are prominent in the American diet promote bacterial growth: beer (yeast), chocolate is hard for the stomach to digest, milk (salmonella), etc. He said he knows personally from his own hairloss problems what kind of torture people go through. He hated the looks he got from people, hated how people look up at your hairline when talking to you, and hated the fact his confidence was destroyed. He needed an immediate solution and this was it.

Between 300-400 people have used the product, he said. He has never heard of it not working for anyone. He did mention he is aware that this industry is home to a lot of crooks and scam products, hence he understands people's skepticism and is not offended by it; all he wants is the chance to prove himself. Realizes that people don't believe anything they hear anymore. He feels that nutrients and DHT are perhaps factors in the hairloss process but are not the primal causes. He has tried various products/substances for hairloss treatment, and doesn't believe there's a better product than his.

WHAT IS THE PRODUCT MADE UP OF?
It consists of a system made up of a spray which is applied to the head every night before bed. It is slightly oily. There is a shampoo (used every morning/whenever showering, once a day), a conditioner (contains nutrients, used twice a week), and a cream for the feet (used once a day. This is to quell infectious organisms in the feet, since this is another favorite bacterial habitat). There is no need to use the foot cream anywhere else on the feet except on and between the toes, and along the nails. Again, this is to kill organisms in the areas of the body most hospitable to microbes.

WHAT IS IN IT?
The product is composed of various synthetic and 'natural' ingredients (listed on the bottle). Essentially, it kills the micro-organisms on the scalp (all of them). He mentioned it kills the bacteria in various stages, and there is a combination of 2 ingredients in Growth Response which he calls "incredible" because they eliminate organisms so completely. There is nothing in it which is not safe for the body, and the product can be used over a long period of time (he himself has used it for about 5 years).

WHAT DOES IT DO?
Again, it destroys the micro-organisms (bacteria and fungus) which cause hairloss. When it is used, people commonly report a tingling sensation on the scalp, and a warm sensation of additional circulation. Itching/flaking/dandruff/other bad scalp conditions should disappear (he himself had scalp itch accompanying his hairloss).

RESULTS?
In 7 days, excessive shedding should completely stop. Regrowth of vellous hairs should be noticeable within 45 days, with these hairs getting longer and stronger as time goes on. Almost immediately, hair should look and feel stronger, scalp should be healthier, and hair should have greater elasticity with less tendency to fall out/break.

Ultimately, 10-18% of hair, at least, should be expected back. I told him that this 10-18% sounded rather low... why was this? He said that over time, the infection produces a *film* or coating over the follicles, with one layer of the coating compounding against the previous one below it. As the months and years go by, these layers build up. Growth Response helps eliminate this coating, but only to a relatively small extent. RESEARCH IS ONGOING he said, as he continues to work on ways to get rid of this barrier which keeps hair from growing back the way it normally would/should. He speculated that alpha-hydroxy may be useful for this purpose, but this is a work-in-progress. He stated that this is the reason that people who are extremely bald, have very shiny scalps; the barrier interferes with proper scalp secretions screwing up the oil secretions/health/appearance of the scalp even more (my take: this sounds a heck of a lot like what *we* call follicular fibrosis, a build-up of fibrosed collagen surrounding the follicle and preventing the hair from growing back. Various other researchers believe layers of sebum build up and solidify creating this 'coating'. It's a very interesting commonality, but unfortunate he doesn't have the answer to it yet. He said that if this could be removed, that then his product would produce pretty amazing results. As it is, it stops hairloss and produces regrowth -- how much, depends on the user and how long he/she has been losing hair. So, over time, decent-to-good results should be noted but if someone is *completely* bald... the result will likely not be miraculous. It is more ideal for estimated NW1-3. He did mention that 35% of the hair growing back was not uncommon).

He mentioned that he had given the product to a good friend who was completely bald on top and has been using it for the past 2 years. Though he has stopped his hairloss and grew new hair, the results have not been 'astonishing'. For completely bald people, the product should work to a certain degree, but it will take some time to get hair back. As far as stopping hairloss and growing hair back, he said he is willing to put up his own professional reputation on the fact that it works. All he wants is for people to try the product and let the product speak for itself. He said that the best part is that he could *say* anything to make a sale; he wants people to see for themselves the results they will get, and positive promotion from word-of-mouth thru the Internet will help sell the product over time. He *likes* the fact that some people think he is lying; they will be proved wrong and the people who use it will thank him repeatedly.

WHAT DO YOU ASK OF THE TRIALISTS?
He wants the *product* to talk, not him. He doesn't want to be in the limelight; instead, results will speak for themselves and Kathrin will handle all marketing and distribution. There will be a money-back guarantee of some sort, and it should be available through a website (a domain name has already been reserved for it). This will come at some point in the future, but already manufacturing is in place, and they are ready for any and all orders, so the lack of a website will not be a problem.

He is a very, very busy man with his chemist/compounding business and has precious little time to devote to the product other than manufacturing it. People should have a towel for their head, a towel for their body, and another towel for their feet. This will minimize ways of transferring organisms from one area of the body to another. If an individual is married, or has family members/roomate(s) living with him/her, he should not borrow anyone else's towel (for showering or hand-washing, ect).

NO other products should be used whilst using Growth Response products. This will eliminate other variables from the results. The Growth Response treatments will be shipped out to the test subjects this coming Tuesday (Monday's a holiday). Pictures should be taken of the top of the head; they DO NOT have to be sent to him! Many sufferers are ashamed of their problem and it has damaged their self-esteem to the point where they could never take a picture of the top of their heads. The pictures can be for the test subjects own personal use and review to visibly *see* improvement and results.

Finally, he is being kind enough to give away free product. All he asks is, USE it as directed and DO NOT let it sit on the shelf. Have a commitment to it, and give updates (and take pictures if possible) after 2 weeks, then after a month, and bi-weekly thereafter.

CONCLUSION
Kathrin will handle the feedback/comments/questions/etc. for Growth Response. She is the contact person for basically everything, being the marketing and distribution 'arm' for the product. There will very likely be a website forthcoming where more information will be available, and perhaps a FAQ, and an order form and so forth. All questions should be fielded to her.

I told the inventor about Hairsite.com and invited him to read the forums where we should soon be talking about the product. He is a busy man but does find time to use the Internet periodically; I don't know about him posting anything because once again Kathrin is the spokesperson and contact for the product, but there is a chance he may be reading what we have to say. My take: it sounds interesting, and is a rather different point of view of the whole hairloss enigma than we've heard before.

If it works as claimed, successfully stopping MPB and growing some hair back, it is more, in and of itself, than anything else that we have going right now. It's such a shame that this whole area of treatment is still, in the year 2002, experimental, and we know so little about the problem and how to address it. Promising? Perhaps. He stands behind his product, I'll give him that. I have had my own hopes raised and dashed countless times -- far too often to believe any claims made anymore at face value. We'll see, and give this product a fair trial.

To any and all test subjects: please out of courtesy do as he says, and stop all other products for the time we are using Growth Response. The supply should last around a month, where after, according to him, we will all want more. We'll see about that. Anyone with hair/scalp issues should find relief from persistent itching/flaking/burning scalp conditions with the use of this product (that's the claim); should this be true, people who suffer from these conditions should find relief enough to persuade them that this is the 'real deal'. He says he is risking his good rep. for his product, and giving free samples away; we should at least give him the chance to prove himself before drawing any conclusions.

Thanks, TD



Test subjects who wish to post their testimonials, please go to Growth Response Forum under Topical Treatments . HairSite will also compile testimonials in the Personal Journal forum.

Now of course, nothing can go silently in our forums without opposing views and possible confrontations. TAFP presented his views about Growth Response:



This is an example of people misinterpreting scientific findings and getting trapped in a common logical fallacy -- that of confusing CAUSE with EFFECT.
Some researchers have microscopically analyzed the miniaturized vellus follicles of people with androgenetic alopecia (common male pattern baldness or the female variant thereof), and found the follicles are infested with certain species of microscopic bacteria, fungi, or mites. These organisms don't appear to cause any severe disease or pathological changes that endanger the patient's health. They are just there, in the follicles. Whereas these same organisms are found to be absent in the follicles of people who are not bald or don't show signs of androgenetic alopecia.

So, they connect the two phenomena in their minds and reason that the bacteria or mites must be the CAUSE of the baldness.

How wrong they are, and how illogical!

Androgenetic Alopecia is known to be caused by changes in the follicle associated with exposure to a molecule called "DHT", dehydrotestosterone, which is a chemical variant of testosterone. Certain people have scalp follicles which are genetically more susceptible to DHT and its ill effects. In these people, long-term exposure to DHT causes scalp follicles to gradually shrink. This phenomenon is called male-pattern baldness (MPB), and also occurs in females, in a more diffuse pattern (female-pattern baldness), because females also have testosterone which can be converted into DHT.

At the cellular level, in addition to miniaturizing scalp follicles in genetically predisposed individuals (those carrying genes for androgenetic alopecia), DHT exposure and sensitivity also has other effects which make scalp follicles more hospitable to certain otherwise HARMLESS bacteria, fungi, and/or mites.

Note that these organisms are otherwise HARMLESS, have no direct effect on follicle growth, and simply thrive in follicles which have been affected by DHT. Perhaps they thrive on the metabolic by-products created by DHT sensitivity, which usually includes increased production of sebum. The bacteria or mites are simply there in greater numbers because there's more FOOD for them there, and the DHT-affected follicles provide a better home for them!

The bacteria and mites are really harmless (like many of the "normal flora" -- bacteria that live on the skin or in the mouth and organs of healthy people). They are not CAUSING the alopecia. They just happen to thrive in follicles which are being transformed by the balding process. The real cause of the baldness is DHT, and this has been documented time and again.

But, time and again, researchers have found these bacteria and mites to be present in the follicles of bald or balding people, and not in people with thick heads of hair, and have simply ASSUMED the organisms are causing the baldness! They think they've made a brilliant discovery, and every once in a while we read about someone selling a product based on this "discovery".

But, I have to say the "cause-and-effect" role of bacteria or mites in hairloss has NEVER been proven. It's all circumstantial evidence based simply on the PRESENCE of the organisms in people's balding follicles. Where's the proof?

On the other hand, there is voluminous scientific PROOF that DHT susceptibility causes follicles to shrink in people with the genetic predisposition to androgenetic alopecia.

Tea Tree Oil is not powerful enough, any other suggestions?

Wouldn't killing bacteria be an easy thing to do? Anything that you would use to clean out a wound? Hydrogen Peroxide, Alcohol, Bactine, Iodine, Neosporin?

Be cautious - strongest is not always best to keep what you have...

It's a common misconception that say collodial silver or iodine or hydrogen peroxide is going to kill all pathogens. There are many pathogens that are not hit by them despite what is mentioned in the mainstream or online. Even surgical instruments are shown to still contain something like 40% of all l form (cell wall defiicent) bacteria after current sterilization methods in a study.

The closest all around one that I know of is full strength grapefruit seed extract. Nutribiotic brand is the only one I've used as I know it works which also works on the l form bacteria as well as viruses.

At full strength, it may also have the added benefit of removing calcification in tissues due to it very extremely acidic. In one university study, removing tissue calcification was possible by using substances that were extremely acidic.


EDIT: but remember, that it's not the pathogens themselves in general that is causing a problem but the toxicity that comes from them as well as the immune response.

I second JDP..

Just get a shampoo that has very few, natural ingredients (I like Hairevo shampoo) and spike it with several drops of GSE per use. I put about 5-6 drops in my palm, then pour a little shampoo and mix/massage it right into my scalp. Leave in for 5-10 minutes. This combo, preceded by some deep conditioning with coconut oil gets my hair looking nice and full, not to mention very clean.

what about topical papain?