Something that works

I have been reading posts and topics for quite sometime now hoping that I would find an alternative solution to hair loss. I have read everywhere else that only the "big 3" i.e. minoxidil, finastride and ketoconozole can regrow hair. I tried my best to avoid the chemical route but it seems as though the natural route is merely a load of sh*t. Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming anyone here or this website. I can see what this website as well as the posters here are trying to achieve and I respect that, else I wouldn't have bothered joining here in the first place. My point is, understand my perspective. I'm 21 years old and I'm going bald. It started since I was in my teen years. My life has suffered socially and I can notice the psychological changes I am going through. Anyone here who went through REAL male pattern baldness at an early age can probably relate. I want results, plain and simple. I've tried saw palmetto, horsetail, stinging nettle, msm, olive oil, rosemary oil, lavender oil, apple cider vinegar and the list can go on. I've even tried manual methods for close to a year with a boar bristle brush..... all with no results. I've read one or two posts with people claiming results..... but claims are subjective. Pictures are necessary. Compare the "claims" of success here with this success thread.
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/forumdisplay.php/23-Success-Stories.
You may have to join to see some of the pics but believe me its worth it to see what the big 3 can do. Obviously everyone won't get the same results but when I compare this with what I've seen here, I'm willing to take the chance to get my hair and my life back. Of course, if anyone can suggest a natural method that they think works and has proper pictures as proof, I would still be willing to give it a try. I came here with an open mind and I still have one now. However, if anyone truly knows what its like to lose hair at an early age I would suggest dropping this natural approach bullsh*t and give the big 3 a try. Apparently adding azelaic acid to minoxidil also greatly increases results. People complain that minoxidil doesn't work but most people from that success thread have constantly said that the big 3 have a synergistic effect. If you don't get results with using one or even two... you may get with all three. Sorry for being wordy and sorry if I came across a bit harsh but those who truly understand will respect what I'm saying. Stop wasting your time and if you're serious about growing back your hair, then get it done. Simple as that.

What is your diet like?

My experience was that the big 3 worked decently but I've since found better results years later with no sides by going the natural route. ALSO a lot of the people on those results threads fall into the "poor photos"/different conditions category. Or the few I looked at sure did anyway. Ex: long hair greasy and combed up with bright frontal light versus short hair wet and combed back in dim lighting.

I know the big 3 can give results from being on them for years, but my experience is that they aren't necessary and better results can be achieved. It takes a lot of work and I'm sure not everyone will be able to figure out what they personally need to achieve this. Some will be from lack of effort but some will simply be by people who's problems we can't identify yet with what we know currently about hairloss.

For me it's a matter of personal experience. been there... done that... found better.

Do what ya gotta do, but based on what you posted you haven't REALLY done much to find out what's going on with you to fix your problem a-la natural. Taking a bunch of random supps isn't going to turn the tide.

I posted some pics a while back but they only tell a bit of the story. When I first quit the big 3 I was getting close to have "the island" in the front and that is LOOOoooooong gone now.

Also FWIW looking back in hindsight I find that Fin gave me way worse psychological sides than the balding itself did but while on the drug I was convinced that it wasn't happening. It wasn't until I quit and my head cleared that I realized how messed up it had made me. For many if not most people taking drugs will doubtlessly be the easier and quickest answer, but I'm VERY glad I found how to do it for myself without using them anymore.

Like I said, I came to this forum with an open mind and I still respect the posters here. So Duke, if you have suggestions or advice on how I should go about treating my hair loss naturally, I'm very much willing to listen. You say you were on the big 3 and found something better. I would not have a problem trying whatever this "better" is. Just let me know what to do.

My motto with this site is work smart, not hard. Looking at the supplements you tried it looks like you tried the ol' shotgun approach, trying multiple things without really having a strong understanding of why you, personally, should need them.

This approach rarely works out. But I hope the pharaceuticals give you some relief, there's always more options in the future if they don't work out.

Also, I'm two years older than you with some exteme problems, it's not until you really do some extensive work into diet that you realize just how much certain foods affect you.

Duketronix - what do you mean by the island "long gone now"? Did your hair improve? What?

The big 3 is overrated IMO and is pushed for a reason on the other forums!

Sure, if you're young the chances one will stop hair loss after 1 + years of being on it is pretty good. But when you're older the chances drop quite substantially.

Not to mention fin/dut and minoxidil are poison. There are plenty of people from propeciahelp that are looking for alternatives. That's where this forum comes in.

Fin/dut and minoxidil for hair loss make about as much sense to me as statins do. I understand why people take them but for many that understand the risks or who have gone through the temporary or even possible permanent side effects, it's not worth it.

And as ar mentioned and I highly agree with, if you randomly take a variety of supplements or try different regimens without understanding what you're doing... well, those people tend not to get results. It's in understanding the why part is where most get their results.

It's incredibly hard to help these people.

Sadly, the average person has a hard time understanding the complex nature of what's going on. I believe everyone can eventually with enough drive and determination but the statistics are troubling.

A literacy study conducted in 2005 on 19,000 young Americans is sobering. Only one in three American college grads can read a complex book and extrapolate from it. The report concluded that an overwhelming majority of college students are unable to understand arguments in a newspaper editorial or to comprehend a simple comparison table.

Even worse is many people will spend 30 seconds reading and contemplating a post when it took much longer for the author to type. These people are especially hard if not next to impossible to help.

hope this helps

ar and rdkml you are both right in a sense. I pretty much tried anything that showed some form of promise to regrow my hair. I did give each treatment a fair amount of time to work as I have been trying stuff for years. I have read extensively on DHT and the 5 alpha reductase pathway in an attempt to understand how everything works but I am no guru on any of this. This is why I am open to help that anyone is willing to give. ar, rdkml can you tell me what it is should be taking then?.......or rather can you tell me how I can come to understand what I should be taking and why? Is there some form of literature I can read that can help me understand? Even if you write an essay explaining what I need to know I'll sit down and read it. All I am looking for here is answers. I just want my hair back.

ngb wrote:What is your diet like?

I try to eat a healthy and balanced diet but its far from perfect. I usually eat fruit for snack and I try to include fresh vegetables with my lunch and dinner. I usually avoid fast food but if the day is hectic it may slip in. I try my best to have as much control over my diet as I can but with college life as I said its not always perfect.

I can't tell you what to take, but I can give you the best advice I can. Read into this website, and learn to distinguish what causes hairloss. Genetic suceptibility to hairloss is a double edged concept regarding androgens, it just so happens to occur because of a vast series of mechanisms in place to do something else entirely, that is (based on a lot of research, though you won't find any study coming right out to say this) your body trying to retain homeostasis during some sort of adverse interal dialogue.

This could be from any number of wild things. What we often see is insulin resistance, many overweight individuals with hairloss can alter their diet I've seen, and prevent more hair loss. What gets really troubling is underweight people with hairloss, these people often are accompanied with low testosterone and insulin resistance mediated by something else which I haven't completely understood, as I stand in a different "hairloss category" and haven't put that time in.

Most people here with success have found such via very diverse methods, which just goes to show how everybody is different and needs different approaches, this also sheds light on some of the pharmaceutical products, these drugs cut corners that aren't apparent until years later sometimes.

I personally started sort of like this (it's the condensed version, i've written my history on threads like this dozens of times in more detail if you want to read more) = Dropped all food but basic low inflamitory foods like fish and nuts, no carbs besides some apricots or something, and began doing the warrior diet with daily fasting. During my fasting time I started a rather intense period of chelation / detox using well studied substances like alpha lipoic acid, iodine, selenemethionine, humifulvate, modified citrus pection, IV EDTA rounds, along with natural antibiotic substances.

When you are doing your body any real good, people expect you feel better, look better, etc, immediately. But this is a very modern and flawed idea that we've developed based on pharmaceutical approaches. What really happens is your body begins begins to become more efficient at its job, your detox pathways open up, enzyme function begin to increase, and you feel like fucking shit before you get good results. This is what happened to me before I felt better or saw my hairloss slow to nothing. I had seizures, night long soaking hot fevers, insane nightmares, terrible acne, bloody shits, and then one day I felt and looked better than I had in years and all that stuff stopped. I should go on to say that the amount of hardcore stuff I was taking can be extreme for some and I recommend caution if doing anything like I did, as I was in a big hurry due to more threatening health conditions than hair loss alone.

Ask questions, start threads, read old threads, bug the shit out of CS by making threads directed at him asking direct questions, read read read. If that's not up your alley, then we'll still be here if you change your mind later on. Party on Wayne.

Party on Garth!


A>R you are a pretty determined young man and I'm happy I read in on this. I'm 26 and half my hair is prob gone. Thank god I'm a damn handsome young man who stayed going to the gym and shave my head. But your post really caught my attention!

For 2 reasons. One I'm the ectomorph with some blood sugar dysfunction. My diet is generally good in a sense that I try to eat mostly organic and full course synergistic meals.

Second that I just started Androgel! Not by my doctor cuz he thought 300mg/DL was adequate for a 25 yr old. My numbers as I've been checked over the years have been all over the place. While I was taking dut/fin (which I believe messed up my sperm to date! 3 years later). But I feel excellent and want sex less while on testo (low doses: I only take half the reco per day).

Anyways man it's late... I hope you read this! I have been watching your posts forever and I think you have alot of great things to say. Oh one last thing. While I was juicing heavily. I started to detox, get bad acne (which I never do), felt tired alot... Maybe hind site I should have stuck with the detox diet and juicing for a while longer to run more efficiently and possibly correct some cross communication between the body

But one thing that has now taken me a year to fix is my lifelong problem of not going to the bathroom on a regular basis. I believe my gut health is huge in my hairloss issues.. I have started encapsulated probiotics that actually make it to the gut. And pounding fresh espresso first thing in the morning and I go every single day!

Anyways I would love to chat with ya sometime on aim or something dude. Your a great guy!

moby - I PM'ed you to not spam up the thread.

sighguy wrote:or rather can you tell me how I can come to understand what I should be taking and why? Is there some form of literature I can read that can help me understand?

You can click the name of one of your favorite posters. On the right side, clock posts and you'll be able to read their recent posts which should help you. CausticSymmetry is the owner of this forum. I'd recommend to select his first.


Regarding diet, it's not about how clean your diet is but about specific food groups causing an autoimmune reaction thereby exaccerbating hair loss and possibly even halting hair loss in a number of people. Gluten is a common culprit. Next would be casein. Then soy and corn.

It's said the damage from one meal for those eating gluten who have a gluten sensitivity will last for about 6 months. Many people don't know they are gluten intolerant because of this. They have an autoimmune condition but they continue to eat gluten which limits the progress they are able to make. They need to go on an elimination diet to see how they respond. Tests are not accurate.

The women equivalent of MPB is PCOS and it was shown by one person that 80% of them are gluten intolerant.

Hair loss such as androgenic alopecia is no different, IMO, and a good number of people on this forum have come forward that they have a sensitivity to wheat.


This is just one topic but worth exploring.

Another topic worth exploring is finding a good antimicrobial topical. IMO/IME, Nutribiotic grapefruit seed extract and applying before a shower full strength or diluted may be an option. Or topical 2% lugol's or white iodine to prevent further fibrosis as well as being antimicrobial. The iodine has been shown to be very helpful in one area of the internet by dozens of people for alopecia areata. Is the same true for AGA? I personally believe so.

Even some people may have a problem with their pillows, pillowcases, hats and hair brushes exaccerbating their hair loss.

Thanks for the info so far guys. I have been trying to do some reading and I constantly come across papilla power or malnaik method threads. Does anyone have experience with these methods? Do they really work?

sighguy wrote:Thanks for the info so far guys. I have been trying to do some reading and I constantly come across papilla power or malnaik method threads. Does anyone have experience with these methods? Do they really work?

I'm pretty new to this but from what I can gather the most important thing to address is diet. If you are looking for a magic supplement or method that will work I don't think you will have much luck because if those things worked by themselves then everyone would know about it. You talk about all of the things you are doing in your original post but didn't mention a strict diet. I would just follow the diet plan laid out on immortalhair.org then start researching the 4 pages of threads on diet that show up when you search "diet". After you do that then add in supplements, first to make sure you aren't missing out on any essential nutrient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_nutrient) then to make sure you are getting plenty of antioxidants. If you have the money then buy all of the supplements listed. If you don't have the money get a good multivitamin/mineral and krill oil at least. I wouldn't go on any drugs, I've seen friends of mine react very badly to them. I've heard some alternative medicine doctors say that the cause of hair loss is simply sugar and grains (fructose from fruit is sugar). I notice that all of the people I know who are losing hair all drink soda and eat bread so I'm sure that is part of it and it's not simply genetic like some people think. I went back and looked at portraits of famous people throughout history and a lot of them were bald. If you are someone who was important enough to have your portrait drawn then I'm guessing you had access to all the the breads, desserts and pastries that have been around for centuries also. I'd be interested to see a portrait of a peasant who got pissed when Marie Antoinette told him to just eat cake, maybe he had a full head of hair.